Re: Go-OOO.org?
As I mentioned at the start, my interest in this is rather indirect - I don't expect to ever write OO.o code, and probably don't understand the issues as well as people closer to the situation. As such, I'm evaluating the arguers more than the argument, and trying to work out what sorts of things we should support as a community if and when those in the know suggest them. > Political argument. > > On that field, are you suggesting +1 for sun's side "This has happened > before, it's not a disaster, it'll iron itself out;" or -1 for sun's > side "this happens, but they are handling it particularly bad and > digging their own grave"? I'm not really taking a position on any specific argument here, I'm just pointing out that whatever Sun says about specific complaints against them, the lack of community members willing to give Sun more than begrudging support speaks for itself. To put it another way - although I can't evaluate the many arguments about bad process, I can tell that the system is producing bad output, so I know there exists a bug /somewhere/ that needs fixing. It's worth remembering that XFree86 had to stagnate for years before the majority of its core developers were fed up enough to jump, and even then it took a sizeable straw (license change) to break that particular camel's back. Unless Sun drastically cuts the number of devs it has working on OO.o, I don't see this as a viable option for many years. I'm personally more taken by the Mozilla analogy. The Mozilla project never went away, it just got rebooted. Spinning OO.o off into a non-profit organisation would be one way that Sun could reboot OO.o without forking, although I'm sure there are others. I wasn't clear about the details of what I meant by getting Sun to pull changes from Go-oo. Asking Sun to pull wouldn't necessarily mean refusing to sign the JCA, just requiring Sun to convince each individual developer to sign, and to get Sun to do the (apparently significant) paperwork necessary to get patches accepted. As a developer, I'd feel much more enthused about the process if I got a letter from Sun with a copy of the JCA, a plain English explanation, and a pre-paid return envelope, rather than being told to print out a copy and fax it to Santa Clara. It might even benefit Sun, as they wouldn't be criticised so much for failing to put developers on a new patch for months, when they're all busy ironing bugs out for a new release. I think we already agree on the most important point though - that this is an example of a drastic action that can only be taken by a strong Go-oo project. > It's kind of all-or-nothing; "pressure" comes in the form of arguing > with someone, or publicly criticizing them. Hints don't work. > Stepping into that arena makes things rough, because you can't > maintain good faith; and once you put your foot down on the "it's time > to fork" or "this fork is simply better than the source" line, you > can't backpedal, because the whole atmosphere changes. You may be right, but I'm not yet convinced in an open source setting. Kernel developers tend to be downright rude in public, laying out why each others' ideas are stupid, why various distros have terrible policies, and so on. But things seem to work out fine there, so I don't see why OO.o can't be the same. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OOO.org?
2008/12/30 Joe Terranova : > a) Open Office (and its derivatives I assume) is a bear to package. > Transition packages between releases open up more points of failure. > Will Go-Ooo.org last, or die in 2 months? Is anyone btw familiar how much of go-oo.org is Novell's business competition to Sun, since it was initiated (?) there and has active developers hired by Novell, and how much is actual community? Ie. was it Novell/SUSE first with the hopes (very realistic, given the problems in approachability of Sun's project) that will grow into more true community project, or was it go-oo.org community first adopted by Novell for sponsoring? Anyway, Novell's involvement with go-oo.org is quite largely hidden. Just interested in the history. Also are there any more (wrt Sun's version) potential risks in the code in go-oo.org codebase related to Microsoft-Novell deal and the "covenant not to sue" which has been mentioned to be risky business even though Microsoft states in their FAQ that OSP "applies" to GPL software _but_ that they also state that it's up to interpretation of GPL what it means, and of course their preferred interpretation would be that GPL would not be entirely libre (more at http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/osp-gpl.html). The main problem I guess is that it's covenant not to sue only for office document specification implementations, but what happens if code from OOo will get used somewhere else under the GPL, and it's using some OSP-related patent but for some other purpose? And of course my thought about primary MS aims is that they'd like to make open source "non-commercial" even though any non-commercialism is against open source / free software principles, by using patent licenses as the way to cripple down open source software (first "yes you can use" but in case of major commercial use "hey you're using our patents"). Hopefully that won't ever succeed, though on the other hand it's already succeeding to an extent with all the unfounded, broad claims about Linux kernel etc. -Timo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OOO.org?
On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 16:48 -0500, John Moser wrote: > I was considering filing a bug for package request or creating a spec > for Go-Ooo.org for inclusion in Ubuntu, or possibly as a replacement > for OpenOffice.org vanilla. Start-up time is faster and feature set > is expanded. Given we have had support for docx, etc. in Ubuntu since, I think Gutsy, I was under the impression we already used Go-OOO.org -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: You lost a new Ubuntu user
Very confusing...this email totally lacked linebreaks when I viewed it in Evolution, but when I reply, there apparently are linebreaks. Evolution does freaky things sometimes. On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 19:53 +, Richard Tattersall wrote: > Is it not possible to release cd images with a default language other > than english? Surely the most logical solution would be to have a > separate .iso released for handful of the most common languages. > I am not familiar with how translation in software really works so > please correct me if I am barking up the wrong tree here. The French LoCo team does remixes like this already. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: You lost a new Ubuntu user
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > Very confusing...this email totally lacked linebreaks when I viewed it > in Evolution, but when I reply, there apparently are linebreaks. > Evolution does freaky things sometimes. > > On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 19:53 +, Richard Tattersall wrote: >> Is it not possible to release cd images with a default language other >> than english? Surely the most logical solution would be to have a >> separate .iso released for handful of the most common languages. >> I am not familiar with how translation in software really works so >> please correct me if I am barking up the wrong tree here. > > The French LoCo team does remixes like this already. > > Doing that is not really an option, not only because all Ubuntu images are manually tested by the QA team (some automated tests are also done) and would then require a lot more testers to cover all test cases on all the generated images but you'd also need a lot more space on releases.ubuntu.com that we don't have and won't have (mirroring issue IIRC). Sorry for being so negative but multiple ISO images are really not a good idea :) Stéphane -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklazloACgkQjxyfqkjBhuyFPgCeLzXztIhBGii4VBGfKNPhXlWc crcAn3+CBi8o5jvEIExJTSlj8vs8mMpg =BUpN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
The upload speed problem about the USB modem on Ubuntu.
Dear all develpers: I have a USB modem, it can reach the download speed up to 7.2Mbps and the upload speed up to 5.76Mpbs. On the Ubuntu 8.10, kernel version 2.6.27, the system will load the USB serial driver /lib/.../drivers/usb/serial/option.ko for my USB modem device. And after dialing up with baud rate 115200, I can get the download speed to be 7.2Mpbs, but however, I can only get the upload speed to be 1.5Mpbs. I modified the option.c code, and changed the out queue length and size as follows: /* per port private data */ #define N_IN_URB 4 -#define N_OUT_URB 1 +#define N_OUT_URB 4 #define IN_BUFLEN 4096 -#define OUT_BUFLEN 128 +#define OUT_BUFLEN 4096 Then reload the new option.ko driver for my USB modem, but however, the upload speed is still keeping 1.5Mpbs. I don't know why, and I also don't know where the upload speed is limited. Can who can tell me why it is? Is it the problems of the kernel driver? Or is it the problems of the system settings? Wait for the help urgently! Best Regards, Franko Fang 2008-12-31 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OOO.org?
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:16 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 16:48 -0500, John Moser wrote: >> I was considering filing a bug for package request or creating a spec >> for Go-Ooo.org for inclusion in Ubuntu, or possibly as a replacement >> for OpenOffice.org vanilla. Start-up time is faster and feature set >> is expanded. > > Given we have had support for docx, etc. in Ubuntu since, I think Gutsy, > I was under the impression we already used Go-OOO.org Really? I am currently using hardy at office and intrepid at home. And none of them have OOo which supports docx out of box. Onkar -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OOO.org?
2008/12/31 Onkar Shinde : > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:16 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: >> On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 16:48 -0500, John Moser wrote: >>> I was considering filing a bug for package request or creating a spec >>> for Go-Ooo.org for inclusion in Ubuntu, or possibly as a replacement >>> for OpenOffice.org vanilla. Start-up time is faster and feature set >>> is expanded. >> >> Given we have had support for docx, etc. in Ubuntu since, I think Gutsy, >> I was under the impression we already used Go-OOO.org > > Really? I am currently using hardy at office and intrepid at home. And > none of them have OOo which supports docx out of box. > 1) OOo3 supports docx out of the box, but not very well 2) Ubuntu uses go-oo, not OOo -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OO.org?
I maintain OOo for Ubuntu. The OpenOffice.org in Ubuntu is the go-oo.org version. go-oo takes the original sun tarballs then patches it heavily with somewhere around 500 patches. Pretty much all Linux distributions use the go-oo.org build system and patches, except for Fedora, which just takes a few of the patches and does the build differently. Of course we have a few Ubuntu specific patches as well which are actually located in the go-oo (ooo-build) repository at svn.gnome.org. We add things like the Human icon theme and launchpad integration. And we also use a different splash screen for the Ubuntu version which has the Sun logo on it by Sun's request. Chris On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 16:48 -0500, John Moser wrote: > I was considering filing a bug for package request or creating a spec > for Go-Ooo.org for inclusion in Ubuntu, or possibly as a replacement > for OpenOffice.org vanilla. Start-up time is faster and feature set > is expanded. > > There seems to be some contention between the world in general and Sun > over OOo; people have forked or threatened to fork the project several > times, and Go-OOo seems to be the most active as far as I can tell. > I'm not sure where this will lead in the future-- possibly to a > stagnating OOo from Sun and then to a completely different office > suite, or possibly to a new fork, or possibly to Go-OOo, or possibly > to some improvement in community view and/or management of Sun's OOo-- > but I think the current political atmosphere and the availability of a > more featureful fork warrants some investigation. > > Has anyone else tried this thing? I'm curious to know any opinions > (political and technical, but please if you must pick one than go more > technical than political) on the software, as well as any "better" or > "more active" forks out there, or other viable alternatives entirely. > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Go-OOO.org?
On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 08:46 -0500, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 16:48 -0500, John Moser wrote: > > I was considering filing a bug for package request or creating a spec > > for Go-Ooo.org for inclusion in Ubuntu, or possibly as a replacement > > for OpenOffice.org vanilla. Start-up time is faster and feature set > > is expanded. > > Given we have had support for docx, etc. in Ubuntu since, I think Gutsy, > I was under the impression we already used Go-OOO.org Yes, but it doesn't have save support (even 3.0 doesn't support saving) and didn't have mime support in nautilus which is why Onkar may not have noticed it worked in the older versions. Chris -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
