Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Letting someone use gparted to partition his disk who doesn't know anything about partitioning will probably end in a big data desaster. And whom will this user blame for it? Certainly not himself for doing tasks he doesn't understand but the GUI for letting it do him (even if it has big warnings). The user can blame anyone he wants. The rest of the world shouldn't care about that. I find this whole blaming angle very unproductive. Should Gparted not exist? Should Synaptic? Or the PolicyKit editor? Rapache? The LVM manager? All can be used to destroy data or create security leaks. But all are used to save time for those that understand how they work. And we have no problem with that. We have a problem with those who believe that such tools should be marketed to the uninitiated. This thread was started with the premise of doing what? What are your thoughts on having a server product that competes with Windows Server? Something which has a GUI, is very easy to manage and works best with Ubuntu workstations. My theory is that people trying Ubuntu Server are probably Windows administrators and find it daunting that there's no GUI. If they don't turn away then, they turn away when they discover there's 48 chapters of Samba documentation to read through just to get a functional domain server. Very few administrators would see this as a viable replacement for their Windows server. You want to tell me that most Windows administrators cannot handle the command line and scripts? You want to tell me that Windows is 'very easy to manage'? Right. Maybe for setups that just use the bare minimum, does not use group policy and scripts. But guess what. Microsoft uses a predefined configuration and so they can release tools that automate that. I say give those in such situations a predefined configuration and a foolproof gui tool but then somebody opposes that. I point out that a gui that 'supports' everything is not suitable to the uninitiated then somebody accuses me of protecting my iron rice bowl and being some elitist jerk. So, short of an AI, I cannot think of something that will satisfy all you out there. If someone can use a manual drive, that one is free to drive a manual or an automatic. You don't blame the manual's designer if it cannot accommodate a person that only knows how to use an automatic nor a semi-automatic's designer if the person does not understand the effects of trying to start off in the highest gear. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Topic change: What do you think of Quickly?
Has anyone on here tried out Quickly? It's a new tool in Ubuntu 9.10 that does these things: 1. Includes a template for Glade that does a lot of the ground-work of UI design for you (backend in Python) 2. Makes it easy to use bzr as version control on your own system for your project 3. Builds Debian packages for you and uploads them to your PPA 4. Every one of those things I mentioned is just one command away. If you want a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EctXzH2dss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwr5Xw5ZrIE I see this might be valuable in letting people write GUI frontends for terminal tasks... (let's agree to disagree on the other thing, eh?) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Am 21.11.2009 um 22:38 schrieb Remco: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 19:58, Michael Bienia mich...@bienia.de wrote: On 2009-11-21 17:37:46 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/screens/gparted_1_big.jpg Oh, perhaps you prefer command line disk partitioning over gparted as well. It's doable and much more flexible :-) gparted is probably a good GUI (hadn't have to repartition my disk for a long time, so never used it till now). But does it help someone to partition his disk properly who doesn't know about primary/logical partitions, filesystem types, mount points, etc.? It doesn't. Well, it does. It gives a visual representation of how the result will be, it translates partition codes to human readable descriptions (ext2, FAT32, ...), it takes some care to avoid conflicts and it invokes the correct tools to format the newly created partitions. On the command line, you have a lot more chances to do things wrong. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 20:18, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Am 21.11.2009 um 22:38 schrieb Remco: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 19:58, Michael Bienia mich...@bienia.de wrote: On 2009-11-21 17:37:46 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/screens/gparted_1_big.jpg Oh, perhaps you prefer command line disk partitioning over gparted as well. It's doable and much more flexible :-) gparted is probably a good GUI (hadn't have to repartition my disk for a long time, so never used it till now). But does it help someone to partition his disk properly who doesn't know about primary/logical partitions, filesystem types, mount points, etc.? It doesn't. Well, it does. It gives a visual representation of how the result will be, it translates partition codes to human readable descriptions (ext2, FAT32, ...), it takes some care to avoid conflicts and it invokes the correct tools to format the newly created partitions. On the command line, you have a lot more chances to do things wrong. Yes, that's precisely the thing that Gparted helps you with. That's why I, as a partitioning expert (hee), still value Gparted. But it does not help my mom, who doesn't know the difference between a partition and a filesystem. I don't think we want to cater to these 'normal users' with these GUI administration tools. We want to cater to administrators with varying degrees of experience, making them more productive and less error prone. At least, that's why *I* want GUI tools. -- Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Am 22.11.2009 um 20:44 schrieb Remco: We want to cater to administrators with varying degrees of experience, making them more productive and less error prone. At least, that's why *I* want GUI tools. Well said. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
icewm_1.2.37+1.3.4pre2-3_amd64.deb broken since Karmic release
I've been waiting for weeks for a usable icewm package. Anyone working on a solution? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: icewm_1.2.37+1.3.4pre2-3_amd64.deb broken since Karmic release
Did you file a bug report :) ? On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Christian Schugitsch i...@schugy.de wrote: I've been waiting for weeks for a usable icewm package. Anyone working on a solution? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- João Luís Marques Pinto GetDeb Team Leader http://www.getdeb.net http://blog.getdeb.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: icewm_1.2.37+1.3.4pre2-3_amd64.deb broken since Karmic release
Maybe someone has noticed this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icewm/+bug/458100 Joao Pinto schrieb: Did you file a bug report :) ? On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Christian Schugitsch i...@schugy.de mailto:i...@schugy.de wrote: I've been waiting for weeks for a usable icewm package. Anyone working on a solution? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- João Luís Marques Pinto GetDeb Team Leader http://www.getdeb.net http://blog.getdeb.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Simple question on directfb
Hi, Debian has made their package compatible with dh 7 [2] in which case is the dh_installchangelogs option necessary? or will dh 7 pick it up through dh_auto_install/dh_install ? A run of dh action --no-act will show you all the commands still not executed to complete that action ( look at the dh man page for further explainations ) So, in a clean directory, a dh binary --no-act will give you the whole sequence of commands. bye -- -gaspa- --- - http://launchpad.net/~gaspa - -- HomePage: http://gaspa.yattaweb.it --- -Il lunedi'dell'arrampicatore: www.lunedi.org - -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: icewm_1.2.37+1.3.4pre2-3_amd64.deb broken since Karmic release
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Christian Schugitsch i...@schugy.de wrote: Maybe someone has noticed this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icewm/+bug/458100 Yes, and I've requested additional information. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
ubuntu-releases package
Hi, Install karmic and start packaging. Then you will discover this: dch will use karmic as default, but new packages target either lucid or karmic-proposed. lintian does not know lucid. They may be other package, wich are not aware of lucid. Here is my idea to solve this issue: Introduce a ubuntu-releases package. This package will have a list of all known Ubuntu releases. A small script will give you the needed information, based on the releases list and the current date. Examples: ubuntu-release returns the running series (same as lsb_release -sc) ubuntu-release -d returns the current development series (now it would be lucid) ubuntu-release -s returns the latest stable series (currently it would be karmic) ubuntu-release --lts returns the latest stable lts release (currently hardy) ubuntu-release --supported returns a list of all supported series lintian, dch, and other tools would use ubuntu-release instead of using hardcoded values. Then only one package needs an update, if Mark announce the next codename. I am willing to write this script and to maintain it. What do you think about it? -- Benjamin Drung Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Maintainer (www.debian.org) signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Deciding that those defaults actually would be is another kettle of fish entirely and I surmise that a democratic process of some sort, perhaps brainstorm, would be a good way to settle this inherently political section. That can of worms has to be opened and emptied. The one single problem about adopting 'Linux' has pretty much been a lack of a uniform standard whether it comes to administration or programming. We can thank the Linux kernel developers for contributing to this with their 'moving target interfaces' mantra too. I guess we can sigh with relief that at least with respects to office software, there is more or less one standard - Openoffice and ODF. Finally, I think it's fair to give MS its due here. Whether by fair means or foul, MS has a commanding presence in the market and we simply have to accept that as the way things currently are. Any meaningful effort to get market share away from MS needs to be able to successfully accomodate the windows users and help them migrate, at least long enough for them to get the feel for The Linux Way (tm). People used to Windows that are trying out Ubuntu anything for the first time are from their point of view venturing into uncharted waters. Those same people ventured into uncharted waters before getting used to Windows. You bet that they were quite happy to do the same when they bought their Mac. Of course, if we take the server side angle, it would be a whole different story. Users are probably more willing to learn something new than a certain breed of Microsoft administrators that is forever implied at here. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Christopher Chan christopher.c...@bradbury.edu.hk wrote: Deciding that those defaults actually would be is another kettle of fish entirely and I surmise that a democratic process of some sort, perhaps brainstorm, would be a good way to settle this inherently political section. That can of worms has to be opened and emptied. The one single problem about adopting 'Linux' has pretty much been a lack of a uniform standard whether it comes to administration or programming. We can thank the Linux kernel developers for contributing to this with their 'moving target interfaces' mantra too. I guess we can sigh with relief that at least with respects to office software, there is more or less one standard - Openoffice and ODF. Finally, I think it's fair to give MS its due here. Whether by fair means or foul, MS has a commanding presence in the market and we simply have to accept that as the way things currently are. Any meaningful effort to get market share away from MS needs to be able to successfully accomodate the windows users and help them migrate, at least long enough for them to get the feel for The Linux Way (tm). People used to Windows that are trying out Ubuntu anything for the first time are from their point of view venturing into uncharted waters. Those same people ventured into uncharted waters before getting used to Windows. You bet that they were quite happy to do the same when they bought their Mac. Of course, if we take the server side angle, it would be a whole different story. Users are probably more willing to learn something new than a certain breed of Microsoft administrators that is forever implied at here. That's not true for me. I manage Windows networks at work and use Ubuntu exclusively at home. I would love to migrate them all to Ubuntu and rid Windows from the workplace but Ubuntu has no suitable product to do so which just works out of the box. Though it would be interesting to know just how many Windows administrators have heard of Linux, used Linux, and done sysadmin tasks on Linux. -Ryan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Ryan Dwyer wrote: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Christopher Chan christopher.c...@bradbury.edu.hk mailto:christopher.c...@bradbury.edu.hk wrote: Deciding that those defaults actually would be is another kettle of fish entirely and I surmise that a democratic process of some sort, perhaps brainstorm, would be a good way to settle this inherently political section. That can of worms has to be opened and emptied. The one single problem about adopting 'Linux' has pretty much been a lack of a uniform standard whether it comes to administration or programming. We can thank the Linux kernel developers for contributing to this with their 'moving target interfaces' mantra too. I guess we can sigh with relief that at least with respects to office software, there is more or less one standard - Openoffice and ODF. Finally, I think it's fair to give MS its due here. Whether by fair means or foul, MS has a commanding presence in the market and we simply have to accept that as the way things currently are. Any meaningful effort to get market share away from MS needs to be able to successfully accomodate the windows users and help them migrate, at least long enough for them to get the feel for The Linux Way (tm). People used to Windows that are trying out Ubuntu anything for the first time are from their point of view venturing into uncharted waters. Those same people ventured into uncharted waters before getting used to Windows. You bet that they were quite happy to do the same when they bought their Mac. Of course, if we take the server side angle, it would be a whole different story. Users are probably more willing to learn something new than a certain breed of Microsoft administrators that is forever implied at here. That's not true for me. I manage Windows networks at work and use Ubuntu exclusively at home. I would love to migrate them all to Ubuntu and rid Windows from the workplace but Ubuntu has no suitable product to do so which just works out of the box. Windows networks do not work out of the box. You need to configure each computer from ADS controller to the last Windows XP/2000 Professional workstation. I hope you are not expecting something different with Linux (but I love to see that though - it would give whichever distro that does this an upper hand). But if you are looking for controlling the desktops/profiles, yada, yada, please thank the Kubuntu Team for taking KDE 3 off their packaging list as there is nothing else available but KDE 3.5 and kiosktool that gives you the ability to control desktops based on groups and nobody has as yet stepped up to the plate to port kiosktool over to KDE 4. Though it would be interesting to know just how many Windows administrators have heard of Linux, used Linux, and done sysadmin tasks on Linux. and what level of administrator they are too. I pretty much expect paper MCSEs not to be part of the list but now that Microsoft is phasing out the MCSE certificate, I guess we need a new name for those who got their certificate by cramming. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
