Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Chris Cheney]

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 21:23 +0100, Remco wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 17:40, Tom H  wrote:
> >> Ugh. I really thought that only primitive systems use white text on a black
> >> background.  It's ergonomically very bad.  I never use such a terminal
> >> except in Windows, where I haven't figured out (nor spent enough time to
> >> need to) how to change it.
> >
> > I agree. I would rather not have my terminals look like a tty!
> >
> 
> Would it be possible to have black text on a white background for the
> virtual terminals, too? The current low-resolution white-on-black is
> not very comfortable.

Its high resolution on Lucid with kms on systems that support kms
anyway.

Chris


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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Földes László]

That wasn't black, but dark-dark-green ^_^ Although it might be black 
between pixels...
> A lot simpler than that: the default follows the theme's colours, which
> makes complete sense: there's no reason for the terminal to be any
> different from other applications.
>
> Having said that, everybody(*) knows that a real hardcore terminal
> should be like the VT100 of old: green text on black background ;-)
>
> (*) everybody = me and my non-existent dog
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>

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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Bruno Girin]

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 16:04 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:48:13 +
> Bruno Girin  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 16:48 +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 13:22 +0100, Fred . wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> > > > 
> > > Everybody knows that the bikeshed is green.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Seriously, there's a whole tab of preferences devoted to letting you
> > > pick what colour you want your terminals.  You can have them lurid pink
> > > on green if you like.
> > > 
> > > The default is the way it is because it provides the best contrast on
> > > the majority of screens (TFTs, LCDs, etc.)
> > 
> > A lot simpler than that: the default follows the theme's colours, which
> > makes complete sense: there's no reason for the terminal to be any
> > different from other applications.
> > 
> > Having said that, everybody(*) knows that a real hardcore terminal
> > should be like the VT100 of old: green text on black background ;-)
> > 
> > (*) everybody = me and my non-existent dog
> > 
> > Bruno
> > 
> 
> That was a black background? ;)

Seen in the deficient lighting of the computer room at 4 o'clock in the
morning, it looked black. In natural light, it was probably the darkest
shade of green that technology could produce at the time but I couldn't
tell as I don't remember seeing much daylight when I was using those ;-)

Bruno



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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Charlie Kravetz]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:48:13 +
Bruno Girin  wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 16:48 +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> > On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 13:22 +0100, Fred . wrote:
> > 
> > > Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> > > 
> > Everybody knows that the bikeshed is green.
> > 
> > 
> > Seriously, there's a whole tab of preferences devoted to letting you
> > pick what colour you want your terminals.  You can have them lurid pink
> > on green if you like.
> > 
> > The default is the way it is because it provides the best contrast on
> > the majority of screens (TFTs, LCDs, etc.)
> 
> A lot simpler than that: the default follows the theme's colours, which
> makes complete sense: there's no reason for the terminal to be any
> different from other applications.
> 
> Having said that, everybody(*) knows that a real hardcore terminal
> should be like the VT100 of old: green text on black background ;-)
> 
> (*) everybody = me and my non-existent dog
> 
> Bruno
> 

That was a black background? ;)

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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Bruno Girin]

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 16:48 +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 13:22 +0100, Fred . wrote:
> 
> > Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> > 
> Everybody knows that the bikeshed is green.
> 
> 
> Seriously, there's a whole tab of preferences devoted to letting you
> pick what colour you want your terminals.  You can have them lurid pink
> on green if you like.
> 
> The default is the way it is because it provides the best contrast on
> the majority of screens (TFTs, LCDs, etc.)

A lot simpler than that: the default follows the theme's colours, which
makes complete sense: there's no reason for the terminal to be any
different from other applications.

Having said that, everybody(*) knows that a real hardcore terminal
should be like the VT100 of old: green text on black background ;-)

(*) everybody = me and my non-existent dog

Bruno



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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Remco]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 17:40, Tom H  wrote:
>> Ugh. I really thought that only primitive systems use white text on a black
>> background.  It's ergonomically very bad.  I never use such a terminal
>> except in Windows, where I haven't figured out (nor spent enough time to
>> need to) how to change it.
>
> I agree. I would rather not have my terminals look like a tty!
>

Would it be possible to have black text on a white background for the
virtual terminals, too? The current low-resolution white-on-black is
not very comfortable.

-- 
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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Lucian Adrian Grijincu]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Rene Veerman  wrote:
> use a ~/.bash_profile to set your colors?

It's already configurable in gnome-terminal's settings.
Not sure what you want to put in the .bash_profile to make this work.

Anyway, this discussion is getting a bit old and not of interest to
everyone on this list.

Isn't this more suitable for a bug?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/531540

Feel free to report this upstream.

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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Rene Veerman]

use a ~/.bash_profile to set your colors?

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Fred .  wrote:
> Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> Windows has a terminal like this. Mac OS X have a terminal like this.
> Even Linux have CLI terminal like this.
> KDE also.
> But in GNOME and xterm are black text on white background.
>
> Why?
> That is not how a terminal should look!
>
> Change the default colors to be white text on black background!
>
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Re: Ubuntu 10.10 Developer Summit Announced

[Robbie Williamson]

The 10.10 Release Schedule has also been posted here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MReleaseSchedule

On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 11:23 -0800, Jono Bacon wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am tickled pink to announce the details of the next Ubuntu Developer 
> Summit (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS) taking place at Dolce La Hulpe Hotel 
> and Resort (http://www.dolce-la-hulpe-brussels-hotel.com/) in Brussels, 
> Belgium from the 10-14 May 2010.
> 
> The Ubuntu Developer Summit one of the most important events in the 
> Ubuntu calendar and at it we discuss, debate and design the next version 
> of Ubuntu. We bring together the entire Canonical development team and 
> sponsor a large number of community members across the wide range of 
> areas in which people contribute to Ubuntu. This includes packaging, 
> translations, documentation, testing, LoCo teams and more. UDS is an 
> incredible experience, filled with smart and enthusiastic people, fast 
> paced and exhausting, but incredibly gratifying to be part of the 
> process that builds the next Ubuntu.
> 
> It is important to note that UDS is *not* a conference. It is absolutely 
> a participatory discussion-based summit in which we work together as a 
> team to define what our next release will look like. If you are planning 
> on attending or planning on applying for sponsorship, you should be 
> prepared to participate in the sessions actively.
> 
> For every UDS, Canonical sponsors a number of community members to 
> attend the event. We are looking for those who want to bring some real 
> insight and expertise in their area of Ubuntu, be it development or 
> community governance. If you feel you could offer this but can't afford 
> to cover your expenses of attending, you should apply for sponsorship.
> 
> How To Request Sponsorship
> 
> Luckily, requesting your sponsorship is pretty simple, and we a simple 
> system to handle sponsorship requests. To apply for sponsorship, just 
> follow these simple steps:
> 
>   * Go to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/ and log in with OpenID. When 
> you have logged in, click the *Request Sponsorship* link.
>   * On the first page, add your location and use the *About* yourself 
> box to tell us why you should be sponsored and tell us about your work 
> on Ubuntu - here you should tell us your vital stats - tell us your any 
> 5-A-Day numbers, any work on the sponsorship queue, what you have 
> uploaded, which teams you are in, your LoCo involvement, documentation 
> you have written, any translation work and other work that you have been 
> involved in. When you have done this, click the Next button.
>   * On the final page, answer the questions and then click Finish to 
> finish your sponsorship request.
> 
> More details on requesting sponsorship are at 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/Sponsorship.
> 
> **PLEASE NOTE**: we have a re-direction bug at the end of this process 
> that affects *some* people. Don't worry though, your application is 
> still saved to the system. We are currently in the process of fixing 
> this bug.
> 
> Everyone should get their sponsorship requests in by Fri 26th March 2010 
> to be considered. Good luck!
> 
>  Jono
> 
> -- 
> Jono Bacon
> Ubuntu Community Manager
> www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
> www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon
> 
> 


-- 
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Ubuntu robbiew[irc.freenode.net]
   

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Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you." -Me ;)


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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Chris Cheney]

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 11:40 -0500, Tom H wrote:
> >> Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> >> Windows has a terminal like this. Mac OS X have a terminal like this.
> 
> OS X's terminal is a very civilized black text on white background...

True, funny enough their terminal icon shows it as white text on black
background, although the actual terminal is the opposite.

And yes I am one of the users who always changes gnome terminal back to
white on black.

Chris


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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Scott James Remnant]

On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 13:22 +0100, Fred . wrote:

> Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> 
Everybody knows that the bikeshed is green.


Seriously, there's a whole tab of preferences devoted to letting you
pick what colour you want your terminals.  You can have them lurid pink
on green if you like.

The default is the way it is because it provides the best contrast on
the majority of screens (TFTs, LCDs, etc.)

Scott
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sc...@ubuntu.com


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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Tom H]

>> Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
>> Windows has a terminal like this. Mac OS X have a terminal like this.

OS X's terminal is a very civilized black text on white background...


> Ugh. I really thought that only primitive systems use white text on a black
> background.  It's ergonomically very bad.  I never use such a terminal
> except in Windows, where I haven't figured out (nor spent enough time to
> need to) how to change it.

I agree. I would rather not have my terminals look like a tty!

(In Windows, right-click the top windows frame and select properties...)


>> Even Linux have CLI terminal like this.
>> KDE also.
>> But in GNOME and xterm are black text on white background.
>> Why?
>> That is not how a terminal should look!
>> Change the default colors to be white text on black background!

> That is a very bad idea, imo.

+1

But if the devs change it, it will not take much to change it back on
my installs to black on white.

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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Földes László]

Well, in this case "Everybody" is a big generalisation, as it means
you, doesn't it? :-)

I - too - like the black background and white/light yellow text in
terminals and in text editors, but I won't expect it to be this way by
default. If it is brown on light yellow, but I can customize it in 15
seconds, that is OK for me.
And if you are a Minesweeper addict, you can do it in 10 seconds.

les


On 2010.03.03 05:13 AM, Shentino wrote:
My personal opinion is that the default should be gray on
black like the vc.
  
  
  For some reason the terminal colors just work better that way,
particularly with midnight commander in a shell in a term.
  
  
  my two cents.
  
  On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Derek
Broughton 
wrote:
  
Fred . wrote:

> Everybody knows that a terminal has white text on black background.
> Windows has a terminal like this. Mac OS X have a terminal like
this.


Ugh.  I really thought that only primitive systems use white text on a
black
background.  It's ergonomically very bad.  I never use such a terminal
except in Windows, where I haven't figured out (nor spent enough time to
need to) how to change it.

> Even Linux have CLI terminal like this.
> KDE also.
> But in GNOME and xterm are black text on white background.
>
> Why?
> That is not how a terminal should look!
>
> Change the default colors to be white text on black background!


That is a very bad idea, imo.
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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Bruno Girin]

On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 10:34 +0200, Lucian Adrian Grijincu wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Shentino  wrote:
> > My personal opinion is that the default should be gray on black like the vc.
> > For some reason the terminal colors just work better that way, particularly
> > with midnight commander in a shell in a term.
> > my two cents.
> 
> Opinions, opinions.
> Everyone has a preferred setup.
> 
> There are people who hate "color ls" and always disable it.
> And then there are others that can't tell directories and files apart
> in "ls" if they're not colored differently.
> 
> You won't satisfy everyone.
> 
> Either setup a poll (on brainstorm, for example) or bring some proof
> (a study proving one is better in this and that situation).

And then, you change it and you get a lot of flak from people who liked
the way it was before. The best way to cater for everybody is to make it
customisable, which the Ubuntu terminal already supports. To have white
text on black background in your terminal, do the following:

1. open a terminal
2. go to the Edit -> Profiles... menu
3. select "Default" and click "Edit"
4. select the "colours" tab
5. uncheck "Use colours from system theme"
6. either select a built-in scheme from the drop down (such as "white on
black") or customise your colours using the palette.

There's a bewildering array of customisation options you can play with,
you can even have an image as the background or a semi-transparent
colour. You can also create several profiles to use in different
situations if you want to.

So I reckon, the only thing to do with the terminal is to leave it
alone: it's already customisable way beyond what the Windows and Mac
terminals offer.

Bruno



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Re: White-on-black terminal should be default

[Lucian Adrian Grijincu]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Shentino  wrote:
> My personal opinion is that the default should be gray on black like the vc.
> For some reason the terminal colors just work better that way, particularly
> with midnight commander in a shell in a term.
> my two cents.

Opinions, opinions.
Everyone has a preferred setup.

There are people who hate "color ls" and always disable it.
And then there are others that can't tell directories and files apart
in "ls" if they're not colored differently.

You won't satisfy everyone.

Either setup a poll (on brainstorm, for example) or bring some proof
(a study proving one is better in this and that situation).


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