Re: libsane and acl group selection in udev rules
Hi, I have an HP3055 which we sometimes use to scan documents. The area is private, and "tough nookies" if you don't like the fact that we share it locally. If the decision is to be "more secure", that is fine, BUT... Please do not break current network functionality without providing clear instructions on how to restore the current open-and-insecure working model. I have NO "extra old workstations" that can be dedicated to scanning... as was suggested by Julien (Tue, 2011-10-25 at 17:57 +0200, Julien BLACHE), who, IMO is out of touch with the reality of a small relatively poor but secure (physically) work group! Cheers, --ldl On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Martin Owens wrote: > On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 18:32 +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote: > > saned exists, it should not be used to share scanners over the network > > because sharing scanners is a bad idea that exposes every user of said > > scanners to data leak by just forgetting a sensitive document inside > > the > > scanner. Also, image data is transmitted unencrypted on the network. > > > We have a successful shared scanner at a community center, people are > scanning in photos of their kids. There is a sign to take your documents > when finished scanning, it's in the same room as the computers. No > security problems, it's a public space. > > Why break libsane so I don't accidentally implement something that is a > bad idea? Remember, sharks with freekin' lazers! We might not approve of > the use, but it's not good to force people to edit udev rules in > undocumented ways to do something that the system can still do. > > Perhaps some added documentation in the udev rules or a commented out > section that people can enable when they need to 'do the wrong thing'? > You could even stick in some of your points directly into the file to > make sure people understand it's wrong. > > Seconded on the problems with sane, but we deal with what we have at the > moment and that's saned. > > Martin, > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- --- NOTE: If it is important CALL ME - I may miss email, which I do NOT normally check on weekends nor on a regular basis during any other day. --- LD Landis - N0YRQ - de la tierra del encanto 3960 Schooner Loop, Las Cruces, NM 88012 651-340-4007 N32 21'48.28" W106 46'5.80" -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: libsane and acl group selection in udev rules
On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 18:32 +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote: > saned exists, it should not be used to share scanners over the network > because sharing scanners is a bad idea that exposes every user of said > scanners to data leak by just forgetting a sensitive document inside > the > scanner. Also, image data is transmitted unencrypted on the network. > We have a successful shared scanner at a community center, people are scanning in photos of their kids. There is a sign to take your documents when finished scanning, it's in the same room as the computers. No security problems, it's a public space. Why break libsane so I don't accidentally implement something that is a bad idea? Remember, sharks with freekin' lazers! We might not approve of the use, but it's not good to force people to edit udev rules in undocumented ways to do something that the system can still do. Perhaps some added documentation in the udev rules or a commented out section that people can enable when they need to 'do the wrong thing'? You could even stick in some of your points directly into the file to make sure people understand it's wrong. Seconded on the problems with sane, but we deal with what we have at the moment and that's saned. Martin, -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: libsane and acl group selection in udev rules
Lack of encryption is a security issue that's no different from any other protocol on a LAN (like NFS). If you don't trust the LAN then you tunnel the connection through SSH, VPN, etc. My major problem with scanner access was the device permissions: http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2010/10/scanner-access-enabler.html Alternative solution - PHP Server Scanner: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519201&page=11 This is a PHP re-write of Linux Scanner Server (http://scannerserver.online02.com). I created some patches for LSS but the PHP version has more features (and is probably more maintainable). My patch for LSS is at: http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2010/10/patch-for-linux-scanner-server-v12.html Either is much better than phpSANE. Also, just noticed this: http://wiki.amahi.org/index.php/Scanner_Server There are probably other solutions out there also (like the Avahi integration which didn't function when I tried it on Lucid). > From: Martin Owens > To: Julien BLACHE > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:28:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: libsane and acl group selection in udev rules > You seem to be saying it's not legacy, and then saying that it should be > legacy? I'm confused because the documentation/enablement is so poor a > systems administrator can not currently use saned whether he is informed > or ill-informed about it's security implications. > > If it has security problems, then just say it's disabled and can be > enabled thusly, report a bug upstream about it's crappness and how it > should use ssl, gpg etc. Otherwise we have a feature that sounds > dangerous (could blow up in your face) and is so difficult to set up > that setting it up looks like a big fat packaging bug. > > Surely normal operation shouldn't look like a bug, regardless of how > carefully you want systems administrators to consider the security of > their system? > > Martin, > > On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 17:57 +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote: > Pretty much the only safe and correct use case that exists for saned > is > within LTSP (and local use for scanners that can't be used as user, > like > some parallel port scanners). > > And even then, data is sent unencrypted so it is not suitable for use > with sensitive documents. > > If you really want to share a scanner, the correct solution is scan & > send (either mail or private network share), not saned. Most of the > time > you'll just end up using an old workstation and have users log into > it, > scan their documents and save them to their network share. > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 59, Issue 18
Lack of encryption is a security issue that's no different from any other protocol on a LAN (like NFS). If you don't trust the LAN then you tunnel the connection through SSH, VPN, etc. My major problem with scanner access is device permissions: http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2010/10/scanner-access-enabler.html Alternative solution - PHP Server Scanner: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519201&page=11 This is a PHP re-write of Linux Scanner Server (http://scannerserver.online02.com). I created some patches for LSS but the PHP version has more features (and is probably more maintainable). My patch for LSS is at: http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2010/10/patch-for-linux-scanner-server-v12.html Either is much better than phpSANE. Also, just noticed this: http://wiki.amahi.org/index.php/Scanner_Server There are probably other solutions out there also (like the Avahi integration which didn't function when I tried it on Lucid). On 10/26/11, ubuntu-devel-discuss-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com wrote: > Send Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list submissions to > ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ubuntu-devel-discuss-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ubuntu-devel-discuss-ow...@lists.ubuntu.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-devel-discuss digest..." > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
