Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Dane Mutters wrote: [...] > So, now that we've gotten some matters of conduct out of the way (we have, > haven't we?), does anyone care to suggest what to do about making the GUI(s) > of Ubuntu more usable for those who aren't OK with the current offerings? Have you considered trying the other window manager that are available for installation? Between Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu which each install their own different window manager by default; and being able to install GNOME Shell (gnome-shell) to replace Unity (or gnome-session-fallback for a GNOME2-like look), there's a fair amount of choice. No matter which option you'll choose, there is bound to be some amount of change in the look and feel, since even GNOME is moving away from what you're used to seeing in 10.04 with the two panels. That will mean some amount of relearning, with a varying transition period depending on your choice. As far as I can tell, from an LTS to LTS upgrade perspective it's all a matter of choosing whether you want to spend increasing amounts of time figuring out how to get the same look you were used to, or spending a (relatively) finite amount of time relearning interface to familiarize yourself with . That's true for all other distros at this point in time, the difference is that Ubuntu has chosen to go with Unity as the default window manager for Ubuntu Desktop installs (as opposed to Kubuntu or others). Regards, Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre Freenode: cyphermox, Jabber: mathieu...@gmail.com 4096R/EE018C93 1967 8F7D 03A1 8F38 732E FF82 C126 33E1 EE01 8C93 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 08:46:23 PM Dane Mutters wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:26:22 PM Robert Holtzman wrote: > > > On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 10:26:50PM -0700, Dane Mutters wrote: > > ... > > > > > Oh,come on. Let's not start this again. What is it about the various > > > Ubuntu lists that causes the Manners Police to fire up their computers > > > to pop out how we unwashed masses should comport ourselves every time > > > the discussion gets a little spirited? > > > > > > I assume the people on this list are adults, capable of reading things > > > like "pinhead", "stupid", "moron", etc without getting the vapors and > > > reaching for the smelling salts. > > > > Certainly. The delete key works great for such cases. If you want to > > contribute to the Ubuntu community in a way that is going to be effective, > > then > > poorly written rants aren't the best way to go about it. > > > > Scott K > > So, now that we've gotten some matters of conduct out of the way (we have, > haven't we?), does anyone care to suggest what to do about making the > GUI(s) of Ubuntu more usable for those who aren't OK with the current > offerings? > > I think we've outlined the problem fairly well (thanks to those who have > posted thus far), though further explanation would, of course, be welcome, > should something be missing. > > Scott K, you've typically been a voice of reason on the Ubuntu mailing > lists in the past; do you have any insights? Anyone else? Ubuntu is on a train and that train is called Unity. The tracks are being laid within Canonical and it is very difficult to influence where they are being put down from the outside. The Canonical design team has started to engage the community to discuss some of the relevant issues (although I haven't been following the details). You should accept that you aren't going to make major changes in where Unity is headed. It just isn't going to happen from the outside. You can either get on this Unity train or pick another one. Those are really the choices. Personally, I run Kubuntu. Xubuntu is also very popular. I believe that there is a community forming around the idea of trying to similarly provide a Gnome 3 experience from within the Ubuntu project. You need to figure out which one you like best. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:26:22 PM Robert Holtzman wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 10:26:50PM -0700, Dane Mutters wrote: > ... > > Oh,come on. Let's not start this again. What is it about the various > > Ubuntu lists that causes the Manners Police to fire up their computers > > to pop out how we unwashed masses should comport ourselves every time > > the discussion gets a little spirited? > > > > I assume the people on this list are adults, capable of reading things > > like "pinhead", "stupid", "moron", etc without getting the vapors and > > reaching for the smelling salts. > > Certainly. The delete key works great for such cases. If you want to > contribute to the Ubuntu community in a way that is going to be effective, > then > poorly written rants aren't the best way to go about it. > > Scott K > So, now that we've gotten some matters of conduct out of the way (we have, haven't we?), does anyone care to suggest what to do about making the GUI(s) of Ubuntu more usable for those who aren't OK with the current offerings? I think we've outlined the problem fairly well (thanks to those who have posted thus far), though further explanation would, of course, be welcome, should something be missing. Scott K, you've typically been a voice of reason on the Ubuntu mailing lists in the past; do you have any insights? Anyone else? I've seen this topic degenerate into protean grunts of derision several times before, but since nobody's yet outlined a reasonable and functional course of action, yet, I dare to say it's still worth talking about--should we all manage to keep our heads. I would very much like to have again an Ubuntu that I'm ecstatic about sharing with my friends and family, and I think that intelligently (and fearlessly) confronting the GUI problems we now face is a key step in obtaining that. I realize that since I'm not a developer, myself, I probably lack somewhat in the "credibility-and-sway department," but I'm hoping that insomuch as I (and others) present good reasoning and valid concerns, that can be overlooked. Thanks for your interest and comments. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:26:22 PM Robert Holtzman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 10:26:50PM -0700, Dane Mutters wrote: ... > Oh,come on. Let's not start this again. What is it about the various > Ubuntu lists that causes the Manners Police to fire up their computers > to pop out how we unwashed masses should comport ourselves every time > the discussion gets a little spirited? > > I assume the people on this list are adults, capable of reading things > like "pinhead", "stupid", "moron", etc without getting the vapors and > reaching for the smelling salts. Certainly. The delete key works great for such cases. If you want to contribute to the Ubuntu community in a way that is going to be effective, then poorly written rants aren't the best way to go about it. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 10:26:50PM -0700, Dane Mutters wrote:
> >
> >
> > Oh it goes well and truely far beyond that. Some pinhead decided to move
> > /var/run to /run without leaving a symlink or informing and updating
> > packages.
> > I had an unfortunate 10.04 LTS system go unbootable until I got onto the
> > console to fix it so networking could even come up since on that machine it
> > was depending on dhcp and a handful of other things to check in via the FHS
> > accepted and everything but ubuntu /var/run. And this was a normal system.
> > Whose stupid idea was *that*? The same moron who was pissing and moaning
> > about moving all binaries into /bin or some other idiocy?
> >
> > I am so very glad I never bought the Linux desktop coolaide. Though I
> > guess Windows 8 designed for mobile and tablets is getting pushed to the
> > desktop too so precise may as well break the long standing /var/run
> > practice of this is where pid files go without fixing any stock packages.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Michael and others,
>
> I realize it can be very satisfying to deliver a well-placed rant, but I
> hope I'm not "out of line" to remind everyone that without moderating our
> language to be as unoffensive as possible, no web conversation can be very
> productive. The issues you've brought up are, of course, quite valid; I
> only suggest that the conversation avoid inflammatory epithets ("whose
> stupid idea...", etc.), and that we try to get to the root of whatever
> problem exists with the help of those who generously donate their time to
> Ubuntu, rather than ranting at those same people. I realize that my own
> language has been pretty blunt, but within the bounds of explaining an
> issue, I hope I haven't been too offensive.
>
> Also, if this thread isn't the appropriate place to discuss problems with
> development trends, etc., then will somebody please inform me/us of where
> such a discussion would be more appropriate? I've taken the liberty of
> posting my "essay" on my blog, at:
>
> http://danemutters.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/on-the-state-of-linux-gui-development/
>
> ...in case people find it more appropriate to deal with the issues there.
> I'll make a point of moderating inflammatory comments there (hopefully
> without stifling any worthwhile ideas in the process). All are free to
> comment on the blog, so long as we're respectful.
Oh,come on. Let's not start this again. What is it about the various
Ubuntu lists that causes the Manners Police to fire up their computers
to pop out how we unwashed masses should comport ourselves every time
the discussion gets a little spirited?
I assume the people on this list are adults, capable of reading things
like "pinhead", "stupid", "moron", etc without getting the vapors and
reaching for the smelling salts.
--
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer.
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