Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 06:18:21PM -0500, Tom H wrote: > On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Dale Amon wrote: > > > > # DMA20121218. This is new, suggested to me by Tom H on the ubuntudev list > > #GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text > > If you don't set it "text", the value of "GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX" is > that of "GRUB_GFXMODE", which is "auto" by default. > > > > # Uncomment to disable graphical terminal (grub-pc only) > > #GRUB_TERMINAL=console > > Why don't you uncomment this line? The value of "GRUB_TERMINAL" is > "gfxterm" by default. Note that I have it set to "serial console" up above in the file. I had tried the GFX line earlier but had not joy... but I have fiddled many things since then, so perhaps I will try it again. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Dale Amon wrote: > # DMA20121218. This is new, suggested to me by Tom H on the ubuntudev list > #GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text If you don't set it "text", the value of "GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX" is that of "GRUB_GFXMODE", which is "auto" by default. > # Uncomment to disable graphical terminal (grub-pc only) > #GRUB_TERMINAL=console Why don't you uncomment this line? The value of "GRUB_TERMINAL" is "gfxterm" by default. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
Quoting Jordon Bedwell (jor...@envygeeks.com): > > Do you see any added value to a 'splash screen' hiding *everything* that > > is happening on *SERVER* installs? > Disable it? It takes but one obvious edit inside of /etc/default/grub. > Pro tip: - quiet splash + nosplash > Pro tip: update-grub Thanks. I am aware of your 'pro-tips'. If you had actually read the thread before hitting reply you would have seen my hints to Dale about the various nosplash, noplymouth, vga=xx and verboseness parameters. (Which, adressing your follow-up mail, work for installers and installed systems alike. For me, this is about installed Ubuntu systems. Not installers.) The 'nosplash' param indeed disables the splashscreen, just like hitting ESC would. Still, compared to booting Ubuntu pre-plymouth, there's not really much usefull information shown on the console about what is actually going on. There have been situations when there were no messages being logged to the screen and the system would not continue booting either. This is why i normally use 'init="/sbin/init -v"' and INIT_VERBOSE=yes, but it still is rather messy due to the parallel starting of services. > > And framebuffered consoles. I can see *some* value of having larger > > terminals than the default 80x24. > And this is more constructive than my comments? Jump in and help fix > them bugs. Complaining is not any more constructive than what I did, I should indeed put effort in getting framebuffers working out-of-the-box on all my systems. You are totally correct in that aspect. But this is not my main pet peeve. As said, i can make framebuffers work by specifying a specific vga=xxx parameter that does work. My question boils down to why server installs need all this doohickey. In my opinion it shouldn't be this hard to get back to what is actually going on during boot of a server install. I'm totally pro these gadgets in desktop installs, really, but this makes Ubuntu feel 'Windows™®©-y', if i may use that word. Stuff happens behind 'the screen' and it makes debugging bootproblems unnecessarily hard for sysadmins running Ubuntu on serverhardware in colocating environments. -Sndr. -- | 1 1 was a racehorse, 2 2 was 1 2, 1 1 1 1 race 1 day, 2 2 1 1 2 | 4096R/20CC6CD2 - 6D40 1A20 B9AA 87D4 84C7 FBD6 F3A9 9442 20CC 6CD2 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
A few typo corrections to avoid confusion: On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 03:13:09PM +, Dale Amon wrote: > that is less trouble free. Time is money. ^ more > Them's the hard facts of life in a fast past world ^ paced -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 01:33:16PM +0100, Soren Hansen wrote: > We'd be happy to explore possible ways Ubuntu Server could stand out. I > can just say that historically the Ubuntu Server community has by far > preferred that Ubuntu Server remain a minimal install. It's been a > while since this discussion has last been active, though. Would you care > to start this discussion on the ubuntu-server mailing list? Servers are usually enabled for access via a serial line so that the system can be accessed remotely during the BIOS boot. It would be useful if the defaults were to make sure that absolutely everything from power start (which is done via remotely cycling the power) through the end of boot shows up on the serial console. Yeah, I know, there are supposed to be all of these fancy new methods of doing things. The problem is, in practice they fail when you need them and the only thing I am aware of that has worked fairly consistantly is the serial line. Next, under no circumstance should a server blindly come up in a mode in which it cannot display to a virtual console. Never. Ever. No Excuse. Next, if a system locks up, it should not ever blank the screen. That may be the only data you have to diagnose a rare problem. Assume that a server is going to connect to an ancient KVM and probably a glass tty that is there because it is so old and crufty (but reliable) that no one wants it any more. This is not a matter of special cases. This is *typical* of corporate backend racks in data centres. You have to assume that the guy doing the install has a fixed scheduled amount of time to do an upgrade. At the end of that time period, things should just work. They should not require research, argument, or philosophy. The guys working in these facilities could care less about such things. It either works or it doesn't. If it causes bother and requires special admin, then unless it provides something unique that is mission critical... it gets pulled and replaced by something that is less trouble free. Time is money. Ubuntu, for a number of years, was very trouble free. The last few years I have been having more and more agony with it, and I find I am not alone in starting to shift back to Debian for a number of things. I am simply stating the facts as seen by someone who spent nearly two decades doing admin on two continents, for systems or critical services in universities, major banks, accounting firms and large corporation via a customer in Manhattan. Them's the hard facts of life in a fast past world where *lots* of money rides on keeping them running. I am very glad to say I am (mostly) out of that world and doing something much more fun and far less stressful... (I work in NewSpace now). -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
2013/1/3 Sander Smeenk : > Do you see any added value to a 'splash screen' hiding *everything* > that is happening on *SERVER* installs? A commonly ignored fact in this brave, new Plymouth world is that, as opposed to the pre-Plymouth days, you don't actually need to be physically at the machine to see what is being echoed at boot time. Everything being echoed through Plymouth is also logged in a log file. With the closest one of my servers being over a 1000 km away, this is something I truly appreciate. If the energy spent complaining about Plymouth, disabling Plymouth, etc. had been spent on piping as much useful information as possibe through to Plymouth, we'd be in a much better place today. > And framebuffered consoles. I can see *some* value of having larger > terminals than the default 80x24. But the way it is now, it does not > work on every system. Launchpad is full of "bugs" against the kernel > because the display is blank on a device until X kicks in... Yeah. Getting early feedback (i.e. during the development phase) on this would be very valuable. Until all such bugs are squashed, perhaps we could add an option in grub to boot with "nomodeset" or something like that. Once you log in, we could have a check for "nomodeset" on the kernel command line and offer instructions on how to make that change permanent. Kernel modesetting isn't going away. Let's look for solutions that accept that fact, shall we? > Ubuntu 'server' has never had a real focus on the 'server' part. All > the 'server' part does is leave out a certain set of packages, maybe > include a few others. Other than that it's just the same > codebase/packages as the Destkop flavour, Can you elaborate on what sort of differences you're expecting between desktop and server that would not come in the shape of a different package selection? After all, every file (except for you own data) in an Ubuntu system comes from a package. We'd be happy to explore possible ways Ubuntu Server could stand out. I can just say that historically the Ubuntu Server community has by far preferred that Ubuntu Server remain a minimal install. It's been a while since this discussion has last been active, though. Would you care to start this discussion on the ubuntu-server mailing list? -- Soren Hansen Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.ubuntu.com/ OpenStack Developer http://www.openstack.org/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
Like in medicine, the first rule in Enterprise systems is 'do no harm'. If an upgrade to a working system causes it to come up in a crippled or unusable state without assorted arcane incantations (and btw I used even more arcane ones than you mentioned and they did not work), then something is broken in the distribution. I cannot help on this. I will be 8000 miles from this server by Saturday night. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Jordon Bedwell wrote: >> Do you see any added value to a 'splash screen' hiding *everything* that >> is happening on *SERVER* installs? > > Disable it? It takes but one obvious edit inside of /etc/default/grub. > Pro tip: - quiet splash + nosplash > Pro tip: update-grub I feel that I should elaborate this. If you are on about the actual installer, then I don't know what you are on about, I've never had Ubiquity or Ubuntu live on any of my installers and the installer I see is the same on the alternate cd which is the same as it's been for years long before live installers. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Sander Smeenk wrote: > Quoting Jordon Bedwell (jor...@envygeeks.com): > >> > I agree, just did not want to say it. I get the feeling there >> > are a lot of people working on Linux these days who have never >> > set foot into a data centre. >> Your statement is full of fail and horseshit. > > Not to start a war at this beautiful start of 2013, but your reply isn't > really constructive either, Jordon. And bringing that up makes you a better person. > > Do you see any added value to a 'splash screen' hiding *everything* that > is happening on *SERVER* installs? Disable it? It takes but one obvious edit inside of /etc/default/grub. Pro tip: - quiet splash + nosplash Pro tip: update-grub > And framebuffered consoles. I can see *some* value of having larger > terminals than the default 80x24. But the way it is now, it does not > work on every system. Launchpad is full of "bugs" against the kernel > because the display is blank on a device until X kicks in... And this is more constructive than my comments? Jump in and help fix them bugs. Complaining is not any more constructive than what I did, helping is constructive. Unfortunately I don't have any of these problems on my KVM's or my servers that run Ubuntu or Debian, so I cannot help in this area but YOU CAN. > On my laptop running Precise, this too is the case. Are we on about servers or laptops? Pick one. > It's nice for my mom. She also runs Ubuntu *DESKTOP* and is now no > longer scared by all the text scrolling over the screen when she boots > her computer. For experienced Linux admins it is a right PAIN in the ASS > to not be able to see what's going on. You would think for a sysadmin who manages Linux and even the specific distro Ubuntu you would know that you can tap esc anytime and see the text while plymouth is up you would also think you would know about the pro tip above. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Problem with Quantal and a KVM
Quoting Jordon Bedwell (jor...@envygeeks.com): > > I agree, just did not want to say it. I get the feeling there > > are a lot of people working on Linux these days who have never > > set foot into a data centre. > Your statement is full of fail and horseshit. Not to start a war at this beautiful start of 2013, but your reply isn't really constructive either, Jordon. Do you see any added value to a 'splash screen' hiding *everything* that is happening on *SERVER* installs? And framebuffered consoles. I can see *some* value of having larger terminals than the default 80x24. But the way it is now, it does not work on every system. Launchpad is full of "bugs" against the kernel because the display is blank on a device until X kicks in... On my laptop running Precise, this too is the case. It's nice for my mom. She also runs Ubuntu *DESKTOP* and is now no longer scared by all the text scrolling over the screen when she boots her computer. For experienced Linux admins it is a right PAIN in the ASS to not be able to see what's going on. Ubuntu 'server' has never had a real focus on the 'server' part. All the 'server' part does is leave out a certain set of packages, maybe include a few others. Other than that it's just the same codebase/packages as the Destkop flavour, and over the years the focus on the 'desktop' behaviour has become very very big with all the splashscreens and vital information hiding. Just my 25 cents. -Sndr. -- | If peanut butter cookies are made from peanut butter, | then what are Girl Scout cookies made out of? | 4096R/20CC6CD2 - 6D40 1A20 B9AA 87D4 84C7 FBD6 F3A9 9442 20CC 6CD2 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
