Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, chalserog...@gmail.com chalserog...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Mono's upstream 2.10 release page suggests that they're shipping both IronPython and IronRuby in the main mono distribution, but looking at the source I can't find it, so I'm not sure what's happening there. IronPython and IronRuby are now building from the same source. https://github.com/IronLanguages/main Regardless, Mono 2.10.1 is now available in Debian experimental, and so will be available early on in the Oneiric (what will become Ubuntu 11.10) development cycle. Since we're very close to the end of the Natty cycle upgrading to 2.10.1 presents too big a regression risk to pull it in this time. What needs to be done is to update the dlr-languages² source package. This is maintained by the pkg-cli-libs team in Debian, and we sync it across from there. As we're well after Natty feature freeze, updating in Natty would require a Feature Freeze exception¹. As there seems to be only one package with a(n optional) dependency on IronPython in the archive it *might* be possible to get an FFe and have the new package in the Natty release, it would be more reasonable to aim for Oneiric. One can RUN IronPython 2.7 on Mono 2.6.7, but not BUILD it, http://ironpython.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=IronPython%20on%20Mono So I'm not sure how well an FFe would work. I'm assuming that the build engine runs on the same Mono version as the release? Perhaps we will need to maintain a .NET 2.0 compatible binary of IPy on the IronPython site until well after Debian releases with Mono 2.10 under the hood. If you'd like help in the mechanical process of updating the package, the Ubuntu packaging guide³ has a good rundown, or feel free to ask - IRC #debian-cli on oftc.net is friendly and generally active. Since it looks like dlr-languages is one of the more complex things to package, I could probably find the time to update it in the next month or so if you're not comfortable with the process. ¹: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess ²: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-cli-libs/packages/dlr-languages.git;a=summary ³: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide Okay, I just looked at the link, and would require a month or so for me to figure out how to do it. I have been a bit hesitant about changing things I don't understand, ever since I crashed the Internet in several neighboring states by incorrectly updating a gateway router. (Long story, and the Internet was much smaller then.) So, yes, please make those changes when you can. :-) Make sure that the source is coming from github, not codeplex. I'll see that the build patches get into a new tarball, They are now in the git trunk but not backported to the 2.7 maintenance branch yet. How often do you fetch a new tarball? -- Vernon -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 2:31 AM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:26 AM, chalserog...@gmail.com chalserog...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Mono's upstream 2.10 release page suggests that they're shipping both IronPython and IronRuby in the main mono distribution, but looking at the source I can't find it, so I'm not sure what's happening there. IronPython and IronRuby are now building from the same source. https://github.com/IronLanguages/main Regardless, Mono 2.10.1 is now available in Debian experimental, and so will be available early on in the Oneiric (what will become Ubuntu 11.10) development cycle. Since we're very close to the end of the Natty cycle upgrading to 2.10.1 presents too big a regression risk to pull it in this time. What needs to be done is to update the dlr-languages² source package. This is maintained by the pkg-cli-libs team in Debian, and we sync it across from there. As we're well after Natty feature freeze, updating in Natty would require a Feature Freeze exception¹. As there seems to be only one package with a(n optional) dependency on IronPython in the archive it *might* be possible to get an FFe and have the new package in the Natty release, it would be more reasonable to aim for Oneiric. One can RUN IronPython 2.7 on Mono 2.6.7, but not BUILD it, http://ironpython.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=IronPython%20on%20Mono So I'm not sure how well an FFe would work. Oh. Yeah, that's not going to work then! I'm assuming that the build engine runs on the same Mono version as the release? Yes. The policy is that everything in the archive has to be built by tools in the archive. Perhaps we will need to maintain a .NET 2.0 compatible binary of IPy on the IronPython site until well after Debian releases with Mono 2.10 under the hood. Debian stable is going to have Mono 2.6.7 until the next release, which is likely to be about 2 years away. There's likely to be a backport done, though, so it should (eventually) be reasonably easy for Debian users to have Mono 2.10. Ubuntu 11.10 will have Mono 2.10, Ubuntu 11.04 won't - but, again, is likely to get *some* sort of backport, even through a PPA. Whether that makes it worth maintaining a 2.0-compatible IPy is up to you :). If you'd like help in the mechanical process of updating the package, the Ubuntu packaging guide³ has a good rundown, or feel free to ask - IRC #debian-cli on oftc.net is friendly and generally active. Since it looks like dlr-languages is one of the more complex things to package, I could probably find the time to update it in the next month or so if you're not comfortable with the process. ¹: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess ²: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-cli-libs/packages/dlr-languages.git;a=summary ³: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide Okay, I just looked at the link, and would require a month or so for me to figure out how to do it. I have been a bit hesitant about changing things I don't understand, ever since I crashed the Internet in several neighboring states by incorrectly updating a gateway router. (Long story, and the Internet was much smaller then.) So, yes, please make those changes when you can. :-) Well, we'd be reviewing and sponsoring your changes, so if you *did* break the Internet again it'd be our fault :). Make sure that the source is coming from github, not codeplex. I'll see that the build patches get into a new tarball, They are now in the git trunk but not backported to the 2.7 maintenance branch yet. How often do you fetch a new tarball? As often as the maintainer feels like it. For well maintained packages (here's where you can come in ☺) that's generally once per upstream release, unless there's some problem - like it not being buildable against Mono 2.6.7 :). There's a certain amount of impedance mismatch between Debian and predominantly-Windows upstreams like Iron*, but that's something that can largely be worked around. The biggest problem is probably the different IronPython/IronRuby release schedules which mean we can't have IronPython 2.7 and IronRuby 1.0 unless we have two different source packages, and even then there's the problem of the shared DLR component. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
Parts of this discussion have been fed back to the IronPython development team, with the result that the IronPython build script has been repaired, and we can now build IronPython 2.7 against the .NET 2.0 library. It is reported to work fine on Ubuntu with the stock Mono. I also got promoted to a (gulp!) developer on the IronPython project. That's what I get for asking too many questions. What is needed to get that version of IronPython into the Ubuntu release packages? Do you need to build from source or would a binary do? do we need to publish the .NET 2.0 binary version also/elsewhere? What? -- Vernon Cole -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
Chris: Thanks for the detailed information. That was pretty much what I was looking for. It makes everything make sense. I had tried downloading the mono source and rebuilding -- what an error! I've spent most of my morning removing the new, broken mono and replacing the stock version. Ugh! Once that was done, I went hunting for the newest version of IronPython which ran on the dotNET 2.0 platform. It is IronPython 2.6.2, a maintenance release with several bug fixes, especially compared with the Beta2. I copied the binary onto my machine and tried it. It seems to work quite well, other than the fact that it turns the black print on my console to grey when it starts, which is a little weird. I will stick with that version for the time being. I suggest that the packaging folks consider an upgrade to it soon. It's a good version of Python, just not good enough for testing bleeding edge stuff. Meanwhile, I am downloading an OpenSUSE live USB so that I can test new IronPython modules on occasion. I will switch back to Ubuntu when the smoke clears. -- Vernon On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Christopher James Halse Rogers r...@ubuntu.com wrote: The Ubuntu mono team is pretty much a subset of the Debain CLI team, and [...] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 18:28 -0600, Vernon Cole wrote: Chris: Thanks for the detailed information. That was pretty much what I was looking for. It makes everything make sense. I had tried downloading the mono source and rebuilding -- what an error! I've spent most of my morning removing the new, broken mono and replacing the stock version. Ugh! Hm. I should have linked http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/370/ which is a description of how to do a parallel mono install in a way that works with the Debian CLI policy and tools. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
Hello. I am new to the list, please forgive and let me know if this is not the appropriate forum. I was very pleased when IronPython appeared on synaptic -- even though I was a bit concerned that the version was 2.6B2 about the time that 2.6 was released. No problem, given the regularity with which Ubuntu updates their packages, so I waited. A short while ago, I contributed a patch to the IronPython standard library. I received a somewhat acid comment that my patch had not been tested on Mono/Linux. True, it had not. I downloaded the current source of IronPython from github, and discovered that I cannot build, because my version of Mono is too old. In order to get a current version of Mono, my sources suggested, just switch to Redhat!!! WTF?! _Redhat_ has the latest stuff and Ubuntu is dragging in ancient history? Something is wrong here! IronPython 2.7 was released last week, with my patch and without the requested test. Other than grouching on this list, what can I do to get my favourite distro up to speed? -- Vernon Cole -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
On 03/18/2011 05:08 PM, Vernon Cole wrote: Hello. I am new to the list, please forgive and let me know if this is not the appropriate forum. I was very pleased when IronPython appeared on synaptic -- even though I was a bit concerned that the version was 2.6B2 about the time that 2.6 was released. No problem, given the regularity with which Ubuntu updates their packages, so I waited. A short while ago, I contributed a patch to the IronPython standard library. I received a somewhat acid comment that my patch had not been tested on Mono/Linux. True, it had not. I downloaded the current source of IronPython from github, and discovered that I cannot build, because my version of Mono is too old. In order to get a current version of Mono, my sources suggested, just switch to Redhat!!! WTF?! _Redhat_ has the latest stuff and Ubuntu is dragging in ancient history? Something is wrong here! IronPython 2.7 was released last week, with my patch and without the requested test. Other than grouching on this list, what can I do to get my favourite distro up to speed? -- Vernon Cole You can always go the source and compile it yourself...http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html Find the maintainers of the package and I'm sure they'll welcome any contribution. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
Hi Vernon, Welcome to the list. As far as I know this is the right place to raise this sort of question. Which version of mono you have probably depends on which release of Ubuntu you're using. Ubuntu 10.10 (the latest stable release of Ubuntu) has mono 2.6.7 which is the latest long-term stable release of mono according to http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html RedHat, oddly enough, has mono 2.10, which is the latest release of mono, but is not a long-term support release. The question is probably more why RedHat chose to avoid the long-term release rather than why Ubuntu doesn't have the absolute latest version. Hope this helps, Evan On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. I am new to the list, please forgive and let me know if this is not the appropriate forum. I was very pleased when IronPython appeared on synaptic -- even though I was a bit concerned that the version was 2.6B2 about the time that 2.6 was released. No problem, given the regularity with which Ubuntu updates their packages, so I waited. A short while ago, I contributed a patch to the IronPython standard library. I received a somewhat acid comment that my patch had not been tested on Mono/Linux. True, it had not. I downloaded the current source of IronPython from github, and discovered that I cannot build, because my version of Mono is too old. In order to get a current version of Mono, my sources suggested, just switch to Redhat!!! WTF?! _Redhat_ has the latest stuff and Ubuntu is dragging in ancient history? Something is wrong here! IronPython 2.7 was released last week, with my patch and without the requested test. Other than grouching on this list, what can I do to get my favourite distro up to speed? -- Vernon Cole -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
Hello, Evan, I suppose you noticed that there is not a debian package on the mono download list? Their cross reference links lead to exactly what we already have. By another strange twist of fate, there is a PPA on launchpad which allegedly has a current version of mono, but it is only built for LTS versions of Ubuntu, so to get the latest version of mono, I have to unload Maverick and install an earlier version of Ubuntu. This is starting to sound like an episode of The Twilight Zone. I am, as we speak, installing a new workstation which will have enough resources that I would be able to build mono from source, as soon as the 300MB of updates finish installing. (Doing it on my laptop, which already has two operating systems and seven versions of Python on it was too much.) That would do for testing. But then I would have to distribute my own versions of mono and IronPython as well as my actual application code, so it's not a good final answer. So, back to my original question: What can I do to help get the distro release up to the latest stable version? Should I be working on Natty? -- Vernon On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Vernon, Welcome to the list. As far as I know this is the right place to raise this sort of question. Which version of mono you have probably depends on which release of Ubuntu you're using. Ubuntu 10.10 (the latest stable release of Ubuntu) has mono 2.6.7 which is the latest long-term stable release of mono according to http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html RedHat, oddly enough, has mono 2.10, which is the latest release of mono, but is not a long-term support release. The question is probably more why RedHat chose to avoid the long-term release rather than why Ubuntu doesn't have the absolute latest version. Hope this helps, Evan On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. I am new to the list, please forgive and let me know if this is not the appropriate forum. I was very pleased when IronPython appeared on synaptic -- even though I was a bit concerned that the version was 2.6B2 about the time that 2.6 was released. No problem, given the regularity with which Ubuntu updates their packages, so I waited. A short while ago, I contributed a patch to the IronPython standard library. I received a somewhat acid comment that my patch had not been tested on Mono/Linux. True, it had not. I downloaded the current source of IronPython from github, and discovered that I cannot build, because my version of Mono is too old. In order to get a current version of Mono, my sources suggested, just switch to Redhat!!! WTF?! _Redhat_ has the latest stuff and Ubuntu is dragging in ancient history? Something is wrong here! IronPython 2.7 was released last week, with my patch and without the requested test. Other than grouching on this list, what can I do to get my favourite distro up to speed? -- Vernon Cole -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
From the Ubuntu mono page (http://mono-project.com/DistroPackages/Ubuntu): Mono is considered a core framework in Ubuntu, meaning it has many applications depending upon it (roughly 40 applications). Due to this, the chance of one of those applications breaking due to unexpected changes in their underlying framework is considered too high to risk an update. Given this, the chance of getting an SRU in for any current version is effectively zero. I think getting it into Natty is your best bet at this point. I don't really know who you would want to talk to in order to get that done, but perhaps somebody else on the list could help? I'm sorry that your experience thus far hasn't been great, hopefully Ubuntu can do better in the future. Cheers, Evan On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Evan, I suppose you noticed that there is not a debian package on the mono download list? Their cross reference links lead to exactly what we already have. By another strange twist of fate, there is a PPA on launchpad which allegedly has a current version of mono, but it is only built for LTS versions of Ubuntu, so to get the latest version of mono, I have to unload Maverick and install an earlier version of Ubuntu. This is starting to sound like an episode of The Twilight Zone. I am, as we speak, installing a new workstation which will have enough resources that I would be able to build mono from source, as soon as the 300MB of updates finish installing. (Doing it on my laptop, which already has two operating systems and seven versions of Python on it was too much.) That would do for testing. But then I would have to distribute my own versions of mono and IronPython as well as my actual application code, so it's not a good final answer. So, back to my original question: What can I do to help get the distro release up to the latest stable version? Should I be working on Natty? -- Vernon On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Vernon, Welcome to the list. As far as I know this is the right place to raise this sort of question. Which version of mono you have probably depends on which release of Ubuntu you're using. Ubuntu 10.10 (the latest stable release of Ubuntu) has mono 2.6.7 which is the latest long-term stable release of mono according to http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html RedHat, oddly enough, has mono 2.10, which is the latest release of mono, but is not a long-term support release. The question is probably more why RedHat chose to avoid the long-term release rather than why Ubuntu doesn't have the absolute latest version. Hope this helps, Evan On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. I am new to the list, please forgive and let me know if this is not the appropriate forum. I was very pleased when IronPython appeared on synaptic -- even though I was a bit concerned that the version was 2.6B2 about the time that 2.6 was released. No problem, given the regularity with which Ubuntu updates their packages, so I waited. A short while ago, I contributed a patch to the IronPython standard library. I received a somewhat acid comment that my patch had not been tested on Mono/Linux. True, it had not. I downloaded the current source of IronPython from github, and discovered that I cannot build, because my version of Mono is too old. In order to get a current version of Mono, my sources suggested, just switch to Redhat!!! WTF?! _Redhat_ has the latest stuff and Ubuntu is dragging in ancient history? Something is wrong here! IronPython 2.7 was released last week, with my patch and without the requested test. Other than grouching on this list, what can I do to get my favourite distro up to speed? -- Vernon Cole -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: IronPython and Mono are very old. How can we get an update?
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Vernon Cole vernondc...@gmail.com wrote: By another strange twist of fate, there is a PPA on launchpad which allegedly has a current version of mono, but it is only built for LTS versions of Ubuntu, so to get the latest version of mono, I have to unload Maverick and install an earlier version of Ubuntu. This is starting to sound like an episode of The Twilight Zone. BTW, here are some standard workarounds: 1) Attempt to install the version of Mono found in the PPA on your maverick install. Packages built against older versions of libraries will often work when linked against newer versions. 2) Install debootstrap and install the later Mono in a LTS chroot. 3) Virtual machines So, back to my original question: What can I do to help get the distro release up to the latest stable version? Should I be working on Natty? It is possible the distro release is intentionally following the LTS releases of Mono. In which case it may be better if you can find an easy workaround, or persuade the PPA maintainer to support non-LTS releases of Ubuntu. -- John C. McCabe-Dansted -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
