Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Am Donnerstag, den 22.01.2009, 09:35 +0100 schrieb Markus Hitter: > > It's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, it's only a > > single place with such layout I know in Gnome... I think it's a a hard > > break of the usability. > > Apple Mac OS X has such confirmation dialogs as well, but only for > actions which have potential data loss (log out, power off) and with > an expiration timer of 120 seconds. On expiration, the requested > action is taken, so you can select shut down and walk away to find > your Mac turned off later. That's all Mac OS X 10.4, I don't know > about 10.5. This countdown is really very handy indeed, the QuitAppletPlus includes this feature as well (you can actually choose between 3, 10, 30 or 60 seconds). Regarding to the dialog layout (with buttons only), as you probably read in the previous answer to the Siegfried Gevatter's email, I think it's just matter of taste. I don't like it, you like it, somebody doesn't like both :)) > Confirmation of potential data loss is a good idea, IMHO. Offering a > selection dialog after the user has (pre-)selected his choice in the > menu, isn't. The quit dialog in QuitAppletPlus includes among other things this feature too. It collects together all "dangerous" actions you mentioned above (log out, shut down) and restart, so you cannot perform those by mistake directly from the menu. Then in most cases you want to power off, therefore it's a preselected choice in the dialog, so you need to press the "OK" button or just let work the countdown... Thank you for your comment! Roman -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Am Mittwoch, den 21.01.2009, 22:54 +0100 schrieb Siegfried Gevatter (RainCT): > > It's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, it's only a > > single place with such layout I know in Gnome... I think it's a a hard > > break of the usability. > > I don't want to offend you, but personally I find that the dialogue in > the System menu is much more usable than your proposal.Yours offers > quite some additional features, but IMHO it is not something which > should be on my grandma's desktop I think is just matter of taste, everything has its advantages and disadvantages. We (people) are different and have different needs, and I think this is so well :) > (despite this, I'm happy to see the > initiative that you've put into this, and and if it's not used by > default I think it may still be provided as an optional package for > those users who like it). It's only a prototype (mock-up), so it would be make no sense to provide a package for common users. There is this applet prototype _only_ for one reason - to present this ideas to the Ubuntu (desktop) developers. Then this ideas may be used or not... It depends only on you... > By the way, there's a specification about this topic on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/ExitStrategy. The intention > there is to remove options, not to add more. It's very interesting ideas, I knew about this specification, you can even find my comment on this site ;) It was also the initial point for me to analyze this subject and to work on an alternative approach. (nearly one year ago) Thank you for your comment! Roman -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Am 21.01.2009 um 22:23 schrieb Roman Friesen: > Am Mittwoch, den 21.01.2009, 13:50 +0100 schrieb Siegfried-Angel: >> 2009/1/21 Martin Pitt : - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are you sure?"-confirmations >>> >>> Likewise, although our design guys might have an explicit reason for >>> not having an extra confirmation dialog by default? >> >> If I remember correctly (but I may be wrong), there were plans to let >> the fast-user-switch-applet show the same dialogue as the options in >> the System menu, but that couldn't be finished on time for Intrepid. > Oh, please no... > > It's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, it's only a > single place with such layout I know in Gnome... I think it's a a hard > break of the usability. Apple Mac OS X has such confirmation dialogs as well, but only for actions which have potential data loss (log out, power off) and with an expiration timer of 120 seconds. On expiration, the requested action is taken, so you can select shut down and walk away to find your Mac turned off later. That's all Mac OS X 10.4, I don't know about 10.5. Confirmation of potential data loss is a good idea, IMHO. Offering a selection dialog after the user has (pre-)selected his choice in the menu, isn't. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
2009/1/21 Roman Friesen : >> If I remember correctly (but I may be wrong), there were plans to let >> the fast-user-switch-applet show the same dialogue as the options in >> the System menu, but that couldn't be finished on time for Intrepid. > Oh, please no... > > It's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, it's only a > single place with such layout I know in Gnome... I think it's a a hard > break of the usability. I don't want to offend you, but personally I find that the dialogue in the System menu is much more usable than your proposal.Yours offers quite some additional features, but IMHO it is not something which should be on my grandma's desktop (despite this, I'm happy to see the initiative that you've put into this, and and if it's not used by default I think it may still be provided as an optional package for those users who like it). By the way, there's a specification about this topic on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/ExitStrategy. The intention there is to remove options, not to add more. -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Am Mittwoch, den 21.01.2009, 13:50 +0100 schrieb Siegfried-Angel: > 2009/1/21 Martin Pitt : > >> - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are > >> you sure?"-confirmations > > > > Likewise, although our design guys might have an explicit reason for > > not having an extra confirmation dialog by default? > > If I remember correctly (but I may be wrong), there were plans to let > the fast-user-switch-applet show the same dialogue as the options in > the System menu, but that couldn't be finished on time for Intrepid. Oh, please no... It's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, it's only a single place with such layout I know in Gnome... I think it's a a hard break of the usability. GNOME Human Interface Guidelines / Make Your Application Consistent: http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/principles-consistency.html.en Roman -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Am Mittwoch, den 21.01.2009, 12:45 +0100 schrieb Martin Pitt: > thanks for the introduction. I am CC'ing the -desktop list, since the > discussion is a bit better suited there. Should we discuss this topic only on the desktop list further on? > > It's not a replacement for the current Intrepid fast-switch-user applet, > > the ideas from both should be merged. > > Code-wise, is that a fork of f-u-s-a, or a rewrite? Neither first nor the second. It is only a graphical prototype (mock-up) written in python. I just thought it would be a better way to present this ideas. > > - quit actions are easy available, without overloading the view > > That is also the case with the current fusa applet, right? I'm sorry, I didn't mention it directly. If I say "Ubuntu quit applet", I mean the whole concept including f-u-s-a and the quit options in the System menu. The f-u-s-a is fine. But, I think, the dialogs in the System menu are not, because it's not common to place buttons such as in this dialogs, I think it's a a hard break of the usability. > > - more intuitive action names and icons for inexperienced users > > I don't think it should be considered a feature to use different > strings in different projects. This is certainly a point where both > should be merged. > Currently hard to compare for me, since my fusa is in German, while > your screenshots are in English, but they do not seem to be > dramatically different to me? The German translations are more human than the English original. For the English I suggest: "Shut Down" -> "Power Off", "Suspend (to RAM)" -> "Standby". But it's not only translations or icons, please look also, how the "Hibernate" action can be made more intuitive: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuitAppletPlus#How%20to%20present%20technical% 20actions%20for%20inexperienced%20users > > - configurable quit applet menu design/behavior > > That's certainly a nice thing to have. Thank you :) > > - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are > > you sure?"-confirmations > > Likewise, although our design guys might have an explicit reason for > not having an extra confirmation dialog by default? I think it's a very good idea for not having confirmation dialogs in f-u-s-a. In the QuitAppletPlus there isn't any confirmation dialog too (the quit dialog is not a confirmation dialog). > > - alternative approach to protect other logged-in users if you perform > > shut down or restart > > How does that work in your project? ATM consolekit requires you to > enter your password to "override" and shut down if other people are > still logged in. Please use the "Test scenarios" dialog (via the applet context menu) in order to simulate this scenario. If you mean the approach description, you can find that here (have I misunderstood your question?): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuitAppletPlus#How%20to%20protect%20another% 20logged-in%20users > > - graphical countdown by automatic quit > > The current logout dialog in system -> Log out counts down in steps of > 10 seconds. If you have a similar one, both dialogs should be made > consistent. It's just a progress bar (counts down in 1 second steps). Maybe a progress bar is not the best choice, but I think a graphical countdown is much better than the text based countdown (I didn't even notice this countdown at first...). You can also stop the countdown or just turn it of in the applet preferences. For more details please see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuitAppletPlus#Automatic%20Shut%20Down > > - and finally you can power off the computer only with one mouse click! > > Doesn't that contradict with your explicit confirmation dialogs? You cannot perform this actions by mistake, because you have to hold the related keys, therefore the confirmation dialogs are not needed here. (Per design there is not any confirmation dialogs in the QuitAppletPlus) > Current fusa requires two mouse clicks, which doesn't seem to be > excessive for something you'd only do once a day? You can also lock the screen with one mouse click. But you are right, it's not a must, but I think it could be a nice feature for Ubuntu release notes: "With Ubuntu you can power off or lock the screen only with one click!" ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuitAppletPlus#One%20Click%20Actions > This certainly has some interesting ideas, not to the least having > some icons to the shutdown/restart/etc. actions, plus configurability. > > It would be great to merge some features into fusa itself, I don't > think it makes too much sense to have a completely separate > alternative applet, since we couldn't use it by default. As I have written above, it is only a graphical prototype, so there is only one merge direction -> to f-u-s-a :)) > Thank you for working on this! Thank you too :) Roman -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
2009/1/21 Martin Pitt : >> - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are >> you sure?"-confirmations > > Likewise, although our design guys might have an explicit reason for > not having an extra confirmation dialog by default? If I remember correctly (but I may be wrong), there were plans to let the fast-user-switch-applet show the same dialogue as the options in the System menu, but that couldn't be finished on time for Intrepid. -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Hello Roman, thanks for the introduction. I am CC'ing the -desktop list, since the discussion is a bit better suited there. Roman Friesen [2009-01-18 12:32 +0100]: > It's not a replacement for the current Intrepid fast-switch-user applet, > the ideas from both should be merged. Code-wise, is that a fork of f-u-s-a, or a rewrite? > - quit actions are easy available, without overloading the view That is also the case with the current fusa applet, right? > - more intuitive action names and icons for inexperienced users I don't think it should be considered a feature to use different strings in different projects. This is certainly a point where both should be merged. Currently hard to compare for me, since my fusa is in German, while your screenshots are in English, but they do not seem to be dramatically different to me? > - configurable quit applet menu design/behavior That's certainly a nice thing to have. > - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are > you sure?"-confirmations Likewise, although our design guys might have an explicit reason for not having an extra confirmation dialog by default? > - alternative approach to protect other logged-in users if you perform > shut down or restart How does that work in your project? ATM consolekit requires you to enter your password to "override" and shut down if other people are still logged in. > - graphical countdown by automatic quit The current logout dialog in system -> Log out counts down in steps of 10 seconds. If you have a similar one, both dialogs should be made consistent. > - and finally you can power off the computer only with one mouse click! Doesn't that contradict with your explicit confirmation dialogs? Current fusa requires two mouse clicks, which doesn't seem to be excessive for something you'd only do once a day? This certainly has some interesting ideas, not to the least having some icons to the shutdown/restart/etc. actions, plus configurability. It would be great to merge some features into fusa itself, I don't think it makes too much sense to have a completely separate alternative applet, since we couldn't use it by default. Thank you for working on this! Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
QuitAppletPlus is ready for your feedback!
Dear Ubuntu users and developers, as you know the quit applet was changed in Intrepid. I believe there is sufficient potential to improve it further on. For this reason the QuitAppletPlus project [1] was started and it's ready for your feedback now! :) It's not a replacement for the current Intrepid fast-switch-user applet, the ideas from both should be merged. Highlights: - quit actions are easy available, without overloading the view - more intuitive action names and icons for inexperienced users - configurable quit applet menu design/behavior - protection against accidentally choosing wrong actions without "Are you sure?"-confirmations - extended quit options, hidden by default - alternative approach to protect other logged-in users if you perform shut down or restart - graphical countdown by automatic quit - and finally you can power off the computer only with one mouse click! See the project wiki [2] for more details, screenshots and installation guides. Just test it and say what you think about it [3][4]. It's _only_ a graphical prototype so you can test it without any fear :) Kind Regards, Roman Friesen (krokosjablik) Links: * [1] Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/quit-applet-plus * [2] Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuitAppletPlus * [3] Forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1023652 * [4] Brainstorm idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/16865/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
