Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[Conrad Knauer]

RFC = ?

On 4/17/07, John Richard Moser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've been thinking on ShipIt CDs and the problems with getting them out
> taking so long.
[...]
>   I propose we ship Ubuntu ShipIt CDs on CD-RWs.  This would allow users
>   to order ShipIt CDs during the Alpha/Beta cycles and up-burn as
>   necessary.  Further, ShipIt CDs could be dual-branded for reuse in the
>   next release cycle.

I can think of a few reasons why this is a bad idea, not the least of
which is that the alpha/beta versions have big disclaimers to NOT
install them on production machines (e.g. including because the
installer itself might do bad things).

Then there is the cost of CD-RWs vs CD-Rs; in bulk, CD-Rs can be
exceptionally cheap.  AFAIK, CD-RWs are still rather more (which would
use up Canonical's budget faster, ne?).

Then there is the problem that if you start shipping free reusable
disks...  well let's just say that Canonical runs the risk of becoming
the poor man's Office Supply Store ;)

And is this really a problem Canonical needs to solve right now?
(they've adjusted down the number of disks given out by default as I
recall and review the larger orders)

What would make more sense would be to expand the Freedom Toaster
project (http://www.freedomtoaster.org/)

CK

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[john levin]

Conrad Knauer wrote:
> RFC = ?
> 

Request For Comments

HTH

John

> On 4/17/07, John Richard Moser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> I've been thinking on ShipIt CDs and the problems with getting them out
>> taking so long.
> [...]
>>   I propose we ship Ubuntu ShipIt CDs on CD-RWs.  This would allow users
>>   to order ShipIt CDs during the Alpha/Beta cycles and up-burn as
>>   necessary.  Further, ShipIt CDs could be dual-branded for reuse in the
>>   next release cycle.
> 
> I can think of a few reasons why this is a bad idea, not the least of
> which is that the alpha/beta versions have big disclaimers to NOT
> install them on production machines (e.g. including because the
> installer itself might do bad things).
> 

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[shirish agarwal]

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:19:45 -0600

From: "Conrad Knauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

I can think of a few reasons why this is a bad idea, not the least of
which is that the alpha/beta versions have big disclaimers to NOT
install them on production machines (e.g. including because the
installer itself might do bad things).


CK




Hi all,
   RFC I guess Request for Comments. (lol).  I beg to digress with
Conrad. I'm a big supporter of testing the Herd CD's but its the cost of the
CD's which does turn me off. Hence my testing is only from the beta stage.
I've got 1 80 GB HDD which is exclusive for testing. Now it would be cool on
Canonical's part if we have some custom art RW CD's for those people who are
ready to engage with the whole testing cycle making it easily distinguished.
It would also go in a long way in making us feel a part of the community. I
do agree however that there is a danger of it becoming a poor man's supply
store but that can be easily corrected by looking at people's contribution
in form on bugs filed, any specifications filed, activity on the channels,
all of which could be automated to a certain extent.
I've also  been ordering few CDR's of the final build so as to give-away to
friends or to be used to show-off the Live CD & capabilities of Ubuntu.
Lastly, from the shipit site Canonical does have a list of interested people
who are supporters of the project & can use that to harness good-will as
well as engage the community from time to time but that's beside the point.
  Hope I got my point across, hoping for more healthy discussion on the
subject.

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[shirish agarwal]

Hi all,
Couple of other things, it seems that freedomtoaster.org is no
longer being maintained. The whole place is a big big spam/ad place. Even
the forums have degenerated into just spam. The last news is of 2k4 &
nothing beyond that.
 Another thing that could be done, if Canonical thinks its feasible
is to hand-over people who are interested in the beta-testing cycle a
support group closer in Country to which they send custom art or blank
CD-RW's and the rest of processing happens there. At the most it could be
couple of hundred or slightly more. What do u guys think?
--
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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[Thilo Six]

John Richard Moser wrote the following on 18.04.2007 04:50:

>snip>

>   o ShipIt can ship CD-RWs during the development cycle.  These CD-RWs
> would use special ShipIt-RW art, indicating the disc utilizes CD-RW
> storage to house the Ubuntu Operating System.
> 
>   o ShipIt-RW artwork would contain multiple brands, each with a check
> box by it.  The next three releases would appear; so during the
> Feisty development cycle, brands for 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04 would
> appear.  Alternately, in case of flexible releases (as with Dapper),
> the branding "Yv1" and "Yv2" (Y for Year) could replace exact
> version numbers; so Feisty would be 7v1 and Feisty+1 would be 7v2.

If you give blank CD RWs with Ubuntu branding away some bad guy(tm) could put
bad stuff on it and spread that.
(That way the gpg chain is broken that took soo long to put up on mirrors.)
That would be bad publicity for Ubuntu/Canonical.

just thinking

bye Thilo
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- some friend of mine

gpg key: 0x4A411E09


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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[Thilo Six]

Thilo Six wrote the following on 18.04.2007 19:05:
> John Richard Moser wrote the following on 18.04.2007 04:50:
> 
>> snip>
> 
>>   o ShipIt can ship CD-RWs during the development cycle.  These CD-RWs
>> would use special ShipIt-RW art, indicating the disc utilizes CD-RW
>> storage to house the Ubuntu Operating System.
>>
>>   o ShipIt-RW artwork would contain multiple brands, each with a check
>> box by it.  The next three releases would appear; so during the
>> Feisty development cycle, brands for 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04 would
>> appear.  Alternately, in case of flexible releases (as with Dapper),
>> the branding "Yv1" and "Yv2" (Y for Year) could replace exact
>> version numbers; so Feisty would be 7v1 and Feisty+1 would be 7v2.
> 
> If you give blank CD RWs with Ubuntu branding away some bad guy(tm) could put
> bad stuff on it and spread that.
> (That way the gpg chain is broken that took soo long to put up on mirrors.)
> That would be bad publicity for Ubuntu/Canonical.
> 
> just thinking

i remember McDonalds had given away 10k mp3 (Sony) players with 10 or 12
songs on it in Japan for free.
That players also had an Win trojan on bord.

google for it

> bye Thilo
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- some friend of mine

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[t u]

Thilo Six wrote:
>> If you give blank CD RWs with Ubuntu branding away some bad guy(tm)
>> could put bad stuff on it and spread that. (That way the gpg chain
>> is broken that took soo long to put up on mirrors.) That would be
>> bad publicity for Ubuntu/Canonical.
> i remember McDonalds had given away 10k mp3 (Sony) players with 10 or
> 12 songs on it in Japan for free. That players also had an Win trojan
> on bord.

Yes but that trojan came *with* the mp3 player [as a feature, like other
Sony features] :) If we keep with this example, Ubuntu should come with
a Windows or a Linux virus out of the box ;)

Note: i think providing the shipit CDs as CD-RWs is a good idea but it
would be more expensive (drain resources much faster) and many people
who get those CD-RWs wouldn't know that they are rewritable (we rarely
read tfa, let alone the CD cover and stuff). So it is great
theoretically, but unfortunately not practical for now.

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[Forest Bond]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:19:45PM -0600, Conrad Knauer wrote:
> RFC = ?

Request For Comments, I presume.

-Forest


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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[Conrad Knauer]

On 4/18/07, shirish agarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm a big supporter of testing the Herd CD's but its the cost of the
> CD's which does turn me off. Hence my testing is only from the beta stage.
> I've got 1 80 GB HDD which is exclusive for testing. Now it would be cool on
> Canonical's part if we have some custom art RW CD's for those people who are
> ready to engage with the whole testing cycle making it easily distinguished.
> It would also go in a long way in making us feel a part of the community. I
> do agree however that there is a danger of it becoming a poor man's supply
> store but that can be easily corrected by looking at people's contribution
> in form on bugs filed, any specifications filed, activity on the channels,
> all of which could be automated to a certain extent.

The cost of a single CD-RW is not very high, but the cost of thousands
upon thousands would add up quite quickly for Canonical, that being in
addition to the cost of the CD-Rs; wouldn't it make more sense to for
us as testers to just buy a blank one and call that our contribution
to the Ubntu project? (plus we can reuse it for other things if we
don't want to keep it for testing ;)

I've been using CD-Rs for the Herd CDs (I buy spindles on sale;
they're not overly expensive), but I must admit it is a bit wasteful;
I'll have to switch to a CD-RW for testing :)

CK

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Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW

[(``-_-´´) -- Fernando]

having ppl not reading might not be a problem for alpha/beta testers,
since those are interessed ppl.
also there could be an option for both CD-R and RW.

On 4/18/07, t u <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thilo Six wrote:
> >> If you give blank CD RWs with Ubuntu branding away some bad guy(tm)
> >> could put bad stuff on it and spread that. (That way the gpg chain
> >> is broken that took soo long to put up on mirrors.) That would be
> >> bad publicity for Ubuntu/Canonical.
> > i remember McDonalds had given away 10k mp3 (Sony) players with 10 or
> > 12 songs on it in Japan for free. That players also had an Win trojan
> > on bord.
>
> Yes but that trojan came *with* the mp3 player [as a feature, like other
> Sony features] :) If we keep with this example, Ubuntu should come with
> a Windows or a Linux virus out of the box ;)
>
> Note: i think providing the shipit CDs as CD-RWs is a good idea but it
> would be more expensive (drain resources much faster) and many people
> who get those CD-RWs wouldn't know that they are rewritable (we rarely
> read tfa, let alone the CD cover and stuff). So it is great
> theoretically, but unfortunately not practical for now.
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>


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Freedom Toaster (was: Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW)

[john levin]

shirish agarwal wrote:
> Hi all,
>  Couple of other things, it seems that freedomtoaster.org 
>  is no longer being maintained. The whole 
> place is a big big spam/ad place. Even the forums have degenerated into 
> just spam. The last news is of 2k4 & nothing beyond that.

I've emailed canonical trying to get info on the status of the 
freedomtoaster project. I've long had ambitions to build one, but always 
found myself pushed for time.

It's too good an idea to let drop.

John


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Re: Freedom Toaster (was: Re: [RFC] ShipIt CD-RW)

[Corey Burger]

On 4/18/07, john levin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> shirish agarwal wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >  Couple of other things, it seems that freedomtoaster.org
> >  is no longer being maintained. The whole
> > place is a big big spam/ad place. Even the forums have degenerated into
> > just spam. The last news is of 2k4 & nothing beyond that.
>
> I've emailed canonical trying to get info on the status of the
> freedomtoaster project. I've long had ambitions to build one, but always
> found myself pushed for time.
>
> It's too good an idea to let drop.
>
> John

The website appears up for me. Further, Freedom Toaster is a
Shuttleworth Foundation project, not a Canonical one. Lastly, this is
really a sounder topic, so please send replies there.

Corey

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