Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
On Sunday 30 May 2010 12:27:21 C. Gatzemeier wrote: > Of course this would expose existing issues to a broader audience up > front, but that sounds like a good thing (as "release often" also > somehow means "expose often".), not only for users not unnecessarily > running into issues, but also for developers to focus on critical > bugs in current releases besides new feature development. Yes, that's a good feature. So I have taken a look at ubuntu launchpad site today. Nevertheless I never used launchpad, I think we basically have this options: 1. Use existing fields 2. Add custom fields 3. Attach a special file to the bug 4. Add a special reply to the bug Any other ideas? Does anyone know how the releasenotes are generated out of the bugtracker? Generally we must do this steps: 1. First filter out relevant bugs Possible Criterias: * Referenced Milestone * Importance * Status 2. Check for needed properties (like custom fields (See above)) 3. Include it if the properties are valid After 3. we have a list of existing bugs and now how to test for their relevant at the specific user machine and can display a related message to the user. This list must than be used by the updater to perform the checks. Comments and improvements are welcome! Joachim signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
Hi Joachim, let me just assure you that IMHO appropriate warnings before critical updates could prevent a lot of headaches. As the release notes are tracked/composed from launchpad entries, maybe the system could be made generic enough to work on top of bug trackers' tagging facilities (debian BTS/launchpad) for its "bug radar" to compile the list of issues in sight. Of course this would expose existing issues to a broader audience up front, but that sounds like a good thing (as "release often" also somehow means "expose often".), not only for users not unnecessarily running into issues, but also for developers to focus on critical bugs in current releases besides new feature development. Cheers, Christian -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
On Saturday, May 29, 2010, Joachim Langenbach wrote: > Yes, that's totally correct! > > And from my point of view, really many people don't read release notes This is very true. I don't know what percent of users currently read the release notes before upgrading, but I know that a very tiny percent of computer users as a whole do. > (including me). This are espacially new and unfamiliar users, but also other > users, who think, if they release an update, it would work on most machines > and of course every user thinks, that he owns such a pc. Another point is, > that unfamiliar users may don't understand the notes either (I don't know, > because I don't have read them ever, not the gentoo ones, not ubuntu ones). > > But such a system has the advantage, that really nobody can say afterwards, > hey, you didn't mentioned, that it wouldn't work after the upgrade. I think this is a great idea, and I'm sorry I didn't reply earlIer. Having a simple method to parse the release notes and check for possible known issues before proceeding with the upgrade (or even a straight install) would almost certainly save users a lot of headaches. Including this tool as part of the windows-autorun app on the CD would probably also be a good idea, if a lot more work. Cheers, Evan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
Yes, that's totally correct! And from my point of view, really many people don't read release notes (including me). This are espacially new and unfamiliar users, but also other users, who think, if they release an update, it would work on most machines and of course every user thinks, that he owns such a pc. Another point is, that unfamiliar users may don't understand the notes either (I don't know, because I don't have read them ever, not the gentoo ones, not ubuntu ones). But such a system has the advantage, that really nobody can say afterwards, hey, you didn't mentioned, that it wouldn't work after the upgrade. Joachim Langenbach signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
Hello, if I understood your suggestion, you are proposing that the upgrade process should check for known issues and warn before allowing the user to proceed ? Critical issues with the upgrade process are expected to have some workaround implemented at the upgrade process level, non critical issues are described on the release notes. Your suggestion is only interesting for those which don't read the release notes, on that case it would make some sense to have the specific issues which may apply to your hardware being shown with an upgrade prompt. Best regards, On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Joachim Langenbach wrote: > Good Morning again, > > I'm a bit stunning, that nobody seems to be interested in such a thing. Im > not > afraid of coding it myself, even if I have not much time for that right > now, > but I think even in that case, a discussion about the preferred way is > important. > > > I'm wondering about the fact of lack of interest, because, far as I know, > the > goal of Ubuntu is, to make a Linux distribution for people, who aren't > famillar with computers that much. So pointed one can say, it's a linux > distribution for typical windows users. (Don't understand me wrong here, I > mean this very positive!) And concerning kubuntu, I'm such a user (normally > I > use Gentoo, but on one PC I use kubuntu with the aim, to have one PC with > less > administration efforts for a not so interested user). So from my point of > view, > this missing feature is a great lack at the mentioned goal. It makes me > thougt-provoking that I actually think, the administration of kubuntu > consumes > the same time (or may be more) as administer gentoo. > > I know, that some other users of Kubuntu think the same way like I do, so > I'm > still hoping, that the developers of Kubuntu may think about this problem! > > Yours' sincererly, > > Joachim Langenbach > > On Tuesday 25 May 2010 10:05:08 you wrote: > > Good Morning all! > > > > After last release update and time consuming error repairing, I've think > > about a system, to inform users with critical system components that an > > update is not recommended at their machine. > > > > My thought was a system like the following one: > > > > 1. Provide a list of kown critical components and their problems > > 2. Check the list before update and inform the user that critical > > components are present and that the system doesn't work properly after > > update 3. If the user wants, do the update > > 4. Inform the user, if an update is present, which solves the errors > > > > To 1: > > > > It can be an XML-File like this: > > > > > > > > Intel GMA950 > > Intel Graphiccard > > /usr/sbin/lspci | grep -i 950 > > > > Graphical Desktop isn't working after uodate > > > > > > > > > > A structure like this allows to display a detailed report (if needed in > > several languages) and allows to test for nearly every hardware with help > > of TestCommand. In the case above, all TestCommand should return > nothing, > > of the component is not present. So the testing mechanism is quite > > flexible and for most cases a simple call with a pipe to grep is enough > to > > find a component. Another reason is, such a system would be quite easily > > to code and mantained. > > > > So I'm happy if this thougts starts a discussion about such a mechanism > and > > results in any implementation of such a thing. I'm also interested if > such > > a mechanism before updating is interesting for ubuntu users or not, from > > my state it is a needed feature to address people without computer > > knowledge! > > > > Yours' sincerly, > > > > Joachim Langenbach > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- João Luís Marques Pinto GetDeb Team Leader http://www.getdeb.net http://blog.getdeb.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Prevent people from updates with critical components
Good Morning again, I'm a bit stunning, that nobody seems to be interested in such a thing. Im not afraid of coding it myself, even if I have not much time for that right now, but I think even in that case, a discussion about the preferred way is important. I'm wondering about the fact of lack of interest, because, far as I know, the goal of Ubuntu is, to make a Linux distribution for people, who aren't famillar with computers that much. So pointed one can say, it's a linux distribution for typical windows users. (Don't understand me wrong here, I mean this very positive!) And concerning kubuntu, I'm such a user (normally I use Gentoo, but on one PC I use kubuntu with the aim, to have one PC with less administration efforts for a not so interested user). So from my point of view, this missing feature is a great lack at the mentioned goal. It makes me thougt-provoking that I actually think, the administration of kubuntu consumes the same time (or may be more) as administer gentoo. I know, that some other users of Kubuntu think the same way like I do, so I'm still hoping, that the developers of Kubuntu may think about this problem! Yours' sincererly, Joachim Langenbach On Tuesday 25 May 2010 10:05:08 you wrote: > Good Morning all! > > After last release update and time consuming error repairing, I've think > about a system, to inform users with critical system components that an > update is not recommended at their machine. > > My thought was a system like the following one: > > 1. Provide a list of kown critical components and their problems > 2. Check the list before update and inform the user that critical > components are present and that the system doesn't work properly after > update 3. If the user wants, do the update > 4. Inform the user, if an update is present, which solves the errors > > To 1: > > It can be an XML-File like this: > > > > Intel GMA950 > Intel Graphiccard > /usr/sbin/lspci | grep -i 950 > > Graphical Desktop isn't working after uodate > > > > > A structure like this allows to display a detailed report (if needed in > several languages) and allows to test for nearly every hardware with help > of TestCommand. In the case above, all TestCommand should return nothing, > of the component is not present. So the testing mechanism is quite > flexible and for most cases a simple call with a pipe to grep is enough to > find a component. Another reason is, such a system would be quite easily > to code and mantained. > > So I'm happy if this thougts starts a discussion about such a mechanism and > results in any implementation of such a thing. I'm also interested if such > a mechanism before updating is interesting for ubuntu users or not, from > my state it is a needed feature to address people without computer > knowledge! > > Yours' sincerly, > > Joachim Langenbach > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
