Re: kexec and Grub

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Moser wrote on 10/02/13 23:52:
> ...
>> 
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings
> 
> I wish I could un-see that second one.  I'm completely baffled as
> to what "startup software" is (I'd imagine that would be the
> bootloader, kernel, systemd, all systemd/init scripts, and in
> Ubuntu's case X11 as well, along with everything in /bin and /sbin
> and /lib according to how Unix systems are lain out--everything
> required for system start-up belongs there, while everything not
> required for system start-up goes into /usr/)

Yes.  But the button's
existence shouldn't be blocked on implementing repair of everything in
the world. So long as no promises are made, fixing 10% of startup
problems is better than fixing 0%. Filesystem location is irrelevant.

> tbh repair systems are a good idea, but they belong in their own 
> place.

If settings exist, people trying to fix problems are going to go into
the settings UI anyway. A better place to offer automated repair of
those settings and related software is unlikely.

> Don't care for "Here is a dialog to configure X system aspect.
> Also if your system is broken you can fix this part from here."
> Where is the "Troubleshoot my system" dialog?
> 
> ...

Since neither the startup-specific one, nor the installation-specific
one  have been implemented yet, I don't know why
you'd expect a more general one to exist!

Ubuntu is a brittle system: when anything goes wrong, it's bad at
helping people recover. Someone who isn't a front-end developer, but
wants to help with that problem in general, might start by setting up
an automated system to fuzz-test config files.

- -- 
mpt

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEARECAAYFAlEbaPcACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqESgCgmPWG452iGJ/oFC4+EkIfFw05
6mkAoJCucyApHXZo8lWTSEc9ZZCbjAwq
=fKXj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 10 February 2013 23:52, John Moser  wrote:
> On 02/10/2013 06:22 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for
>> "RapidReboot"
>>
>> Nah, I was thinking about more recent stuff which is exactly what's
>> proposed in the quickly reboot.
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling#Restart
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings
>
>
> I wish I could un-see that second one.  I'm completely baffled as to what
> "startup software" is (I'd imagine that would be the bootloader, kernel,

Hehe. I believe the original goal was to provide an easy way to
customise grub and/or restore default grub settings.
We have way to many reports of people modifying grub config and
copy&pasting “ ” from blogs instead of " " which breaks boot.
This is a way to address this with simple way to choose what to boot,
whether to show choices during the boot and select what to boot into
next.

I see your point that it will not magically fix all possible startup
problems within the whole stack =)

But the reboot popup fixes would be nice ;-)

Cheers,

Dmitrijs.

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[John Moser]

On 02/10/2013 06:22 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:

Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for
"RapidReboot"

Nah, I was thinking about more recent stuff which is exactly what's
proposed in the quickly reboot.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling#Restart

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings


I wish I could un-see that second one.  I'm completely baffled as to 
what "startup software" is (I'd imagine that would be the bootloader, 
kernel, systemd, all systemd/init scripts, and in Ubuntu's case X11 as 
well, along with everything in /bin and /sbin and /lib according to how 
Unix systems are lain out--everything required for system start-up 
belongs there, while everything not required for system start-up goes 
into /usr/)


tbh repair systems are a good idea, but they belong in their own place.  
Don't care for "Here is a dialog to configure X system aspect.  Also if 
your system is broken you can fix this part from here."  Where is the 
"Troubleshoot my system" dialog?


Anyway, off-topic.


Although later deals with grub customisation bugs as well.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.




--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 February 2013 23:23, John Moser  wrote:
> On 02/08/2013 02:27 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>>
>> On 8 February 2013 10:04, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>  wrote:

 Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an
 alternate grub.conf?

 Rapid reboot :)
>>>
>>> Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
>>> with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
>>>
>>> (http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
>>> and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
>>> beneficial for both parties.
>>>
>> Wait a second. There is a whole plan and design to integrated "Reboot
>> into" in the g-s-d panel and the reboot popup.
>
>
> Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for
> "RapidReboot"
>

Nah, I was thinking about more recent stuff which is exactly what's
proposed in the quickly reboot.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling#Restart

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings

Although later deals with grub customisation bugs as well.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[John Moser]

On 02/08/2013 02:27 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:

On 8 February 2013 10:04, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
 wrote:

Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an alternate 
grub.conf?

Rapid reboot :)

Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
(http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
beneficial for both parties.


Wait a second. There is a whole plan and design to integrated "Reboot
into" in the g-s-d panel and the reboot popup.


Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for 
"RapidReboot"


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RapidReboot

It looks like revision 1 was indeed me

... in 2006.

And I was late to the party.  Again, kexec was made for "rebooting is 
slow, there's ten million server bioses".




We want this in ubuntu as well =)

Mpt, can you point where the designs are? Since technically the
utility exists and prof of concept it should be quick to integrate.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.




--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 February 2013 10:04, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
 wrote:
>> Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an alternate 
>> grub.conf?
>>
>> Rapid reboot :)
>
> Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
> with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
> (http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
> and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
> beneficial for both parties.
>

Wait a second. There is a whole plan and design to integrated "Reboot
into" in the g-s-d panel and the reboot popup.

We want this in ubuntu as well =)

Mpt, can you point where the designs are? Since technically the
utility exists and prof of concept it should be quick to integrate.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[John Moser]

Ah this is finally becoming a thing then :)  I am glad to see progress 
after a decade of having a tool written just for this


On 02/08/2013 05:04 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff wrote:

Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an alternate 
grub.conf?

Rapid reboot :)

Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
(http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
beneficial for both parties.

--
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff




--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

> Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an alternate 
> grub.conf?
>
> Rapid reboot :)

Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
(http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
beneficial for both parties.

--
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[John Moser]

On Feb 6, 2013 7:12 AM, "Colin Watson"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 04:07:58PM -0500, John Moser wrote:
> > Has anyone gotten Grub2 to load via Linux Kexec?  It used to be
> > possible to kexec grub.exe for some reason.
>
> kexec can boot multiboot images, according to kexec(8); so you should be
> able to kexec core.img, which has a multiboot header.  I suggest trying
> it first on a non-production system. :-)
>

Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an
alternate grub.conf?

Rapid reboot :)
> --
> Colin Watson   [cjwat...@ubuntu.com]
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 04:07:58PM -0500, John Moser wrote:
> Has anyone gotten Grub2 to load via Linux Kexec?  It used to be
> possible to kexec grub.exe for some reason.

kexec can boot multiboot images, according to kexec(8); so you should be
able to kexec core.img, which has a multiboot header.  I suggest trying
it first on a non-production system. :-)

-- 
Colin Watson   [cjwat...@ubuntu.com]

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Felix Miata]

John Moser composed:


Kexec ... Nobody uses it.


Only rather recently did openSUSE stop using it by default to first-boot a 
newly installed system. Maybe a look at how this was done would be helpful.


On 2013-02-05 16:58 (GMT-0500) John Moser composed:
...

SOLUTION B:
  - Load Grub into kexec
  - Shut down the system into a halt state and call kexec as your termination 
(halt, reboot, etc) command



Which of these looks easier?


You have no system you can test both on, or lack time prior to the critical 
hour?

Given how core.img works, I vote B.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[John Moser]

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:
> On 2013-02-05 16:07 (GMT-0500) John Moser composed:
>
>
>> Has anyone gotten Grub2 to load via Linux Kexec?  It used to be
>> possible to kexec grub.exe for some reason.
>
>
> This question makes me think either you haven't read the kexec man page, or
> one of misunderstands it. Why need any bootloader be involved with kexec
> usage?

Oh I understand it.  Just jumping straight to the bootloader is a
desirable use case.

Also covered in my message, you are less error prone going through the
bootloader.  Consider these two possible paths to solve the above
problem:

SOLUTION A:

 - Write yourself a Grub parser (maybe even something that runs grub
itself and gets it to spit out a list of boot options, a select boot
option, or the default boot option)

- Parse the data you get into viable arguments to pass to kexec for
loading the kernel, initrd, setting parameters, etc.

- Shut down the system to a halt state and call kexec as your
termination (halt, reboot, etc) command.


SOLUTION B:

 - Load Grub into kexec

 - Shut down the system into a halt state and call kexec as your
termination (halt, reboot, etc) command


Which of these looks easier?

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: kexec and Grub

[Felix Miata]

On 2013-02-05 16:07 (GMT-0500) John Moser composed:


Has anyone gotten Grub2 to load via Linux Kexec?  It used to be
possible to kexec grub.exe for some reason.


This question makes me think either you haven't read the kexec man page, or 
one of misunderstands it. Why need any bootloader be involved with kexec usage?

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss