Re: texlive
Ming Hua wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:36:11AM -0700, Micah Cowan wrote: > > > >> >> Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 12:46:25PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'll have time to give him a hand). My concern was actually more dealing with the broken deps and invariable upgrade/install issues that people seem to have with a transition like this. I put in a request for an ubuntu-tex mailing list yesterday so that we can coordinate this kind of work better with the Debian TeX people. >>> >>> As always, I think it's best to hold any discussion on ubuntu-devel >>> >>> until >>> >>> it's clear that there is a need for a new list. Otherwise, you risk >>> >>> creating an underactive list which only serves to isolate the discussion >>> >>> from other developers. >>> >>> >>> >> >> And it surely would be a low-activity list; however, it is sometimes >> >> necessary to discuss things that really don't have a place on the devel >> >> list at large: one such thing we need to discuss is a more precise >> >> understanding of what does and does not make it into the list of >> >> packages that we share responsibility for. I can simply include the >> >> membership in my To: headers, but this is cumbersome and isn't very good >> >> for handling new members that arrive after the thread begins. >> >> >> > > > > My understanding is that Jordan and you are giving two different > > examples. I feel Jordan's example, discussing TeX-related packages that > > have broken deps or upgrading/installing problems is a good topic for > > ubuntu-devel. Your example, discussing what packages should be > > maintained by -tex team, is probably not. > > > > > I primarily saw an ubuntu-tex list as a bug contact and place to coordinate ~ubuntu-tex activity. However, as Matt pointed out ubuntu-devel and -discuss are supposed to be for development discussions. I think we can probably use IRC and the wiki page for communication that wouldn't be great for -devel. > > Also, adding a new list have the problem of making interested people > > subscribe, set up filter, etc., while discussing on ubuntu-devel > > requires no extra efforts. > > > I was actually thinking it would be better as I was expecting a decent amount of people (Debian maintainers and testers/users) who wouldn't normally be subscribed to ubuntu-devel or -discuss. I also feel like, as far as bugmail goes, a mailing list is easier to filter. I thought it'd be helpful to have an ubuntu-tex list, but now I think I was probably wrong, at least for the time being. If people are ok with having TeX talk here and on -devel then I'm fine with it. :-) -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:36:11AM -0700, Micah Cowan wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > As always, I think it's best to hold any discussion on ubuntu-devel until > > it's clear that there is a need for a new list. Otherwise, you risk > > creating an underactive list which only serves to isolate the discussion > > from other developers. > > And it surely would be a low-activity list; however, it is sometimes > necessary to discuss things that really don't have a place on the devel > list at large Major package transitions like this are absolutely on-topic for ubuntu-devel, and it's important to keep other developers informed who aren't working on TeX directly, as this still may affect their work. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Hi,
Ming Hua [2007-04-26 21:13 -0500]:
> I'd like to add that in Debian, for the teTeX -> TeXlive transition,
> after tetex is removed and texlive 2007 is uploaded and becomes the
> default TeX package, a lot of work still needs to be done to check and
> fix the new {build-,}dependency of packages that uses LaTeX, because the
> texlive packages are much more fine-grained than the old tetex ones.
Related to that, the current texlive does not build the
libkpathsea{4,-dev} packages. To remove or demote tetex we need to
build them from texlive. Any idea about that?
Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de
Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com
Debian Developer http://www.debian.org
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Ming Hua wrote: > Also, adding a new list have the problem of making interested people > subscribe, set up filter, etc., while discussing on ubuntu-devel > requires no extra efforts. Hrm, good point. It'd be kind of nice if Launchpad automatically set up mail aliases or somesuch for its groups (on an opt-in basis, but at join time). Total wishlist feature, though. -- Micah J. Cowan Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer... http://micah.cowan.name/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:36:11AM -0700, Micah Cowan wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 12:46:25PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: > >> I'll have time to give him a hand). My concern was actually more dealing > >> with the broken deps and invariable upgrade/install issues that people > >> seem to have with a transition like this. I put in a request for an > >> ubuntu-tex mailing list yesterday so that we can coordinate this kind of > >> work better with the Debian TeX people. > > > > As always, I think it's best to hold any discussion on ubuntu-devel until > > it's clear that there is a need for a new list. Otherwise, you risk > > creating an underactive list which only serves to isolate the discussion > > from other developers. > > And it surely would be a low-activity list; however, it is sometimes > necessary to discuss things that really don't have a place on the devel > list at large: one such thing we need to discuss is a more precise > understanding of what does and does not make it into the list of > packages that we share responsibility for. I can simply include the > membership in my To: headers, but this is cumbersome and isn't very good > for handling new members that arrive after the thread begins. My understanding is that Jordan and you are giving two different examples. I feel Jordan's example, discussing TeX-related packages that have broken deps or upgrading/installing problems is a good topic for ubuntu-devel. Your example, discussing what packages should be maintained by -tex team, is probably not. Also, adding a new list have the problem of making interested people subscribe, set up filter, etc., while discussing on ubuntu-devel requires no extra efforts. Ming 2007.04.26 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
[Resending from the subscribed address. Sorry for possible duplicate
mails since mailman won't accept cancellation requests more than three
days old.]
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:39:06PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote:
>
> > > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive
> > > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that.
> > > Maybe a good topic of discussion?
> >
> > Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick
> > this up unless otherwise prevented?
>
> Well, the issue is more replacing tetex with texlive in Main. Currently
> texlive is in Universe and tetex in Main. We'd need to coordinate with
> core-devs and do Main Inclusion Reports.
I'd like to add that in Debian, for the teTeX -> TeXlive transition,
after tetex is removed and texlive 2007 is uploaded and becomes the
default TeX package, a lot of work still needs to be done to check and
fix the new {build-,}dependency of packages that uses LaTeX, because the
texlive packages are much more fine-grained than the old tetex ones.
1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-tex-maint/2007/04/msg00130.html
Debian has a rather long release cycle to solve this, but with our
six-month cycle, it would be nice if we can start early and find and fix
as many such problem as possible.
Ming
2007.04.21
--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Hi, Martin Pitt [2007-04-21 20:07 +0200]: > > Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick > > this up unless otherwise prevented? > > This is definitively the plan. It would not make sense at all to try > to stick to tetex. This is on my merge list anyway (being 'touched it > last'), and it will make sure that it happens early, so that you guys > can give it some polishing. :) For the record, I did this today before the opening of gutsy, to have all the latest texlive bits in place (since they are common as build dependencies). Enjoy hacking on it! Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
(sorry, accidentally sent to Matt, instead of to list.) Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 12:46:25PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: >> Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> I'll have time to give him a hand). My concern was actually more dealing >> with the broken deps and invariable upgrade/install issues that people >> seem to have with a transition like this. I put in a request for an >> ubuntu-tex mailing list yesterday so that we can coordinate this kind of >> work better with the Debian TeX people. > > As always, I think it's best to hold any discussion on ubuntu-devel until > it's clear that there is a need for a new list. Otherwise, you risk > creating an underactive list which only serves to isolate the discussion > from other developers. > And it surely would be a low-activity list; however, it is sometimes necessary to discuss things that really don't have a place on the devel list at large: one such thing we need to discuss is a more precise understanding of what does and does not make it into the list of packages that we share responsibility for. I can simply include the membership in my To: headers, but this is cumbersome and isn't very good for handling new members that arrive after the thread begins. We could use a wiki discussion page, I suppose, but this seems like an inferior solution. -- Micah J. Cowan Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer... http://micah.cowan.name/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 12:46:25PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > I'll have time to give him a hand). My concern was actually more dealing > with the broken deps and invariable upgrade/install issues that people > seem to have with a transition like this. I put in a request for an > ubuntu-tex mailing list yesterday so that we can coordinate this kind of > work better with the Debian TeX people. As always, I think it's best to hold any discussion on ubuntu-devel until it's clear that there is a need for a new list. Otherwise, you risk creating an underactive list which only serves to isolate the discussion from other developers. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:39:06PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: > >> >> 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. Maybe a good topic of discussion? >>> Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick >>> this up unless otherwise prevented? >>> >>> >> Well, the issue is more replacing tetex with texlive in Main. Currently >> texlive is in Universe and tetex in Main. We'd need to coordinate with >> core-devs and do Main Inclusion Reports. I wonder if we need a spec for >> this? Perhaps Matt Zimmerman or Martin Pitt could give us some guidence >> here. >> > > A main inclusion report should be sufficient; if Debian has made the package > dependency transition then that should be pulled in during the merge. The > remaining work (looking after it in Ubuntu, pulling in any additional Debian > changes, responding to bugs) sounds like a job for the TeX team you just > created. > > Yes, it sounds like Martin is going to be working on the merges (perhaps I'll have time to give him a hand). My concern was actually more dealing with the broken deps and invariable upgrade/install issues that people seem to have with a transition like this. I put in a request for an ubuntu-tex mailing list yesterday so that we can coordinate this kind of work better with the Debian TeX people. Thanks for the replies Martin and Matt. -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 10:39:06PM -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: > > > > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive > > > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. > > > Maybe a good topic of discussion? > > > > Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick > > this up unless otherwise prevented? > > > > Well, the issue is more replacing tetex with texlive in Main. Currently > texlive is in Universe and tetex in Main. We'd need to coordinate with > core-devs and do Main Inclusion Reports. I wonder if we need a spec for > this? Perhaps Matt Zimmerman or Martin Pitt could give us some guidence > here. A main inclusion report should be sufficient; if Debian has made the package dependency transition then that should be pulled in during the merge. The remaining work (looking after it in Ubuntu, pulling in any additional Debian changes, responding to bugs) sounds like a job for the TeX team you just created. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Hi, Michael R. Head [2007-04-21 0:33 -0400]: > > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive > > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. > > Maybe a good topic of discussion? > > Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick > this up unless otherwise prevented? This is definitively the plan. It would not make sense at all to try to stick to tetex. This is on my merge list anyway (being 'touched it last'), and it will make sure that it happens early, so that you guys can give it some polishing. :) Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
> > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive > > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. > > Maybe a good topic of discussion? > > Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick > this up unless otherwise prevented? > Well, the issue is more replacing tetex with texlive in Main. Currently texlive is in Universe and tetex in Main. We'd need to coordinate with core-devs and do Main Inclusion Reports. I wonder if we need a spec for this? Perhaps Matt Zimmerman or Martin Pitt could give us some guidence here. -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Friday April 20 2007 5:29:19 pm Jordan Mantha wrote: > > > tephens comcast.net> writes: > > Is anyone developing texlive? It seems that no one really works on it; > > occasionally one of the devs sticks the debian package in the ubuntu > > repos. > > I would really like to see it better maintained, and I am willing to work > > on > > it, but I don't really know where/how to begin. If anyone has any useful > > suggestions, I'll listen. > > Interesting you asked, I've been thinking we need a TeX team in Ubuntu. So > far we've done a fairly poor job of keeping up with Debian with these > packages. Without pitti and doko's work it would be much worse. A couple > of the Debian TeX maintainers Norbert and Frank have been gracious enough > to do a fair amount of triaging of TeX bugs in Launchpad. > > Here's my plan of attack. I've just created a Launchpad team (ubuntu-tex) > [0]. There are a few MOTUs that are also interested. I think the goal > should be to roughly be the Ubuntu equivalent of the debian-tex-maint group > in Debian [1]. The work roughly involves three areas: > > 1. Triaging and forwarding TeX bugs to Debian. I've gone through all of the > textex and texlive bugs on launchpad and was able to close/reject roughly > 1/3 of them. We need to stay on top of them so people don't have to wait 6 > months to get a reply. > > 2. Testing and QA, we need to make sure that the TeX packages we end up > with are as good as we can get. This might mean filing Freeze exceptions to > get important bugfix releases or backporting fixes to the existing Ubuntu > versions. > > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. > Maybe a good topic of discussion? > > Anyway,anybody who wants to help with the maintenance of TeX in Ubuntu can > join ubuntu-tex and all skill levels are welcome. We need testers, bug > triagers, and packagers. I've created a wiki page for the team [2] where we > can start working up things to do. > > -Jordan Mantha > > [0] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex > [1] > http://qa.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeX I'm really glad your getting this together! I just joined up. As I stated in my original post, I'm not much of a developer (although I know a smattering of programming), but I will do whatever I can to help. -bns -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 15:29 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: > > tephens comcast.net> writes: > > > > Is anyone developing texlive? It seems that no one really works on it; > > occasionally one of the devs sticks the debian package in the ubuntu > > repos. > > I would really like to see it better maintained, and I am willing to work > > on > > it, but I don't really know where/how to begin. If anyone has any useful > > suggestions, I'll listen. > Here's my plan of attack. I've just created a Launchpad team (ubuntu-tex) > [0]. There are a few MOTUs that are also interested. I think the goal > should be to roughly be the Ubuntu equivalent of the debian-tex-maint group > in Debian [1]. The work roughly involves three areas: Excellent. > ... > 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive > 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. > Maybe a good topic of discussion? Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick this up unless otherwise prevented? > Anyway,anybody who wants to help with the maintenance of TeX in Ubuntu can > join ubuntu-tex and all skill levels are welcome. We need testers, bug > triagers, and packagers. I've created a wiki page for the team [2] where we > can start working up things to do. I signed up. I use latex extensively, so I can at least test. > -Jordan Mantha > > [0] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex > [1] > http://qa.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeX > -- Michael R. Head <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.suppressingfire.org/~burner/ http://suppressingfire.livejournal.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
tephens comcast.net> writes: > > Is anyone developing texlive? It seems that no one really works on it; > occasionally one of the devs sticks the debian package in the ubuntu > repos. > I would really like to see it better maintained, and I am willing to work > on > it, but I don't really know where/how to begin. If anyone has any useful > suggestions, I'll listen. Interesting you asked, I've been thinking we need a TeX team in Ubuntu. So far we've done a fairly poor job of keeping up with Debian with these packages. Without pitti and doko's work it would be much worse. A couple of the Debian TeX maintainers Norbert and Frank have been gracious enough to do a fair amount of triaging of TeX bugs in Launchpad. Here's my plan of attack. I've just created a Launchpad team (ubuntu-tex) [0]. There are a few MOTUs that are also interested. I think the goal should be to roughly be the Ubuntu equivalent of the debian-tex-maint group in Debian [1]. The work roughly involves three areas: 1. Triaging and forwarding TeX bugs to Debian. I've gone through all of the textex and texlive bugs on launchpad and was able to close/reject roughly 1/3 of them. We need to stay on top of them so people don't have to wait 6 months to get a reply. 2. Testing and QA, we need to make sure that the TeX packages we end up with are as good as we can get. This might mean filing Freeze exceptions to get important bugfix releases or backporting fixes to the existing Ubuntu versions. 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex -> texlive 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. Maybe a good topic of discussion? Anyway,anybody who wants to help with the maintenance of TeX in Ubuntu can join ubuntu-tex and all skill levels are welcome. We need testers, bug triagers, and packagers. I've created a wiki page for the team [2] where we can start working up things to do. -Jordan Mantha [0] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tex [1] http://qa.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTeX -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
