Re: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 20:13 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote: > +1 for "username" instead of "shortname".. > Shortname is completely confusing. Epic fail guys. No one knows what a short name is. We have spend decades training people to understand both login name and username why on earth would we change it. It's like saying "no son those aren't steering wheels anymore , they are now call direction wheels". -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
Based upon the input given I have created a bug and submitted a patch. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/529744 On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 20:13 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote: > +1 for "username" instead of "shortname".. > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Kyle Law wrote: > > I have search for existing discussion on this list, system-tools-list > > discussion upstream and looked for a bug both in launchpad and upstream. > > I see no discussion on this issue.=20 > > > > When you go to create a new user in lucid using users-admin part of the > > gnome-system-tools package. It asks you Short Name: In my opinion this > > should be left to username like it was in all previous releases. > > Shortname would not only be confusing for users but it is > > inconsistent.=20 > > > > Due to this is more of a String Fix bug as a beginning programmer I > > would be more then happy to write a patch for this.=20 > > > > Before I do anything I wanted to inquire on the community. > > Does anyone disagree with me? > > Would this really be a stringfix bug or am I getting over my head? > > Was this change to users-admin made upstream or downstream? > > Would the sponsorship process be a good way for me to get this pushed > > upstream once I develop the patch. > > > > > > Anzenketh > > > > -- > > Kyle Law > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > -- Kyle Law signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
+1 for "username" instead of "shortname".. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Kyle Law wrote: > I have search for existing discussion on this list, system-tools-list > discussion upstream and looked for a bug both in launchpad and upstream. > I see no discussion on this issue.=20 > > When you go to create a new user in lucid using users-admin part of the > gnome-system-tools package. It asks you Short Name: In my opinion this > should be left to username like it was in all previous releases. > Shortname would not only be confusing for users but it is > inconsistent.=20 > > Due to this is more of a String Fix bug as a beginning programmer I > would be more then happy to write a patch for this.=20 > > Before I do anything I wanted to inquire on the community. > Does anyone disagree with me? > Would this really be a stringfix bug or am I getting over my head? > Was this change to users-admin made upstream or downstream? > Would the sponsorship process be a good way for me to get this pushed > upstream once I develop the patch. > > > Anzenketh > > -- > Kyle Law > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ask for a nickname in users-admin; Was: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
Was the name/username entry broken to begin with? If so, for what population? Dan On Feb 28, 2010 9:52 AM, "Bruno Girin" wrote: On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 09:53 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: > Thomas Templin wrote: > > > > > I woul... Agreed. Add to this that the concept of name, surname, first name, last name, etc is also language and culture specific and it's a lot better to keep it generic and simple. Here are some examples of full names from different places: US: Harry Downey Jr => given name + family name + suffix Spanish speaking world: Gabriel Garcia Marquez => given name + 2 family names (from the mother and the father) Middle East: Mohammed bin Rachid al Makhtoum => given name + father's name + family (tribe) name Asia: Mao Zedong => family name + given name Europe: John Smith => given name + family name So "Full Name" is the only solution that really works. As for the other one, "Short Name" tries to be less technical than "Login Name" or "User Name" but becomes very confusing as it's not something that people would recognise: you never get asked for your short name in normal life so why would your computer ask you for it? It makes sense to ask for something technical like "login name" or "user name" because it is then obvious that it is related to the computer. Furthermore, the concept of login name or user name is consistent with what you're being asked for on all web sites that require you to register. Nickname is not a good substitute either because a lot of people don't consider themselves as having a nickname or may not feel like they want to use to nickname they were given at school, even they like it. If there is an issue of making people understand what a "user name" is, it might be better to have a short piece of explanatory text above the field, such as "Your computer needs to be able to recognise you as a user, so you need to provide it with a name you will use every time you want to use it." (I don't like that sentence but I can't find anything better) My £0.02 Bruno -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or un... -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ask for a nickname in users-admin; Was: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 09:53 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote: > Thomas Templin wrote: > > > > > I would vote for > ... > > and also for > > 'Full Name' (DE_de: 'Vollständiger Name') > > or better > > 'Name Surname' (DE_de: 'Name Nachname') > > You'd know better than me if that's better in German - but it's certainly > wrong (confusing) in English. Translations don't (and shouldn't) have to be > literal. "Full Name" works in English. Other options like "Forename > Surname", "Given Name Surname" are clumsy (largely because we can't decide > what to call the first name). "Name Surname" suggests you are asking just for > a Surname (as in "Name: Surname"), and your users will either presume the > "short" or "login" name is the given name, or be waiting for another prompt. Agreed. Add to this that the concept of name, surname, first name, last name, etc is also language and culture specific and it's a lot better to keep it generic and simple. Here are some examples of full names from different places: US: Harry Downey Jr => given name + family name + suffix Spanish speaking world: Gabriel Garcia Marquez => given name + 2 family names (from the mother and the father) Middle East: Mohammed bin Rachid al Makhtoum => given name + father's name + family (tribe) name Asia: Mao Zedong => family name + given name Europe: John Smith => given name + family name So "Full Name" is the only solution that really works. As for the other one, "Short Name" tries to be less technical than "Login Name" or "User Name" but becomes very confusing as it's not something that people would recognise: you never get asked for your short name in normal life so why would your computer ask you for it? It makes sense to ask for something technical like "login name" or "user name" because it is then obvious that it is related to the computer. Furthermore, the concept of login name or user name is consistent with what you're being asked for on all web sites that require you to register. Nickname is not a good substitute either because a lot of people don't consider themselves as having a nickname or may not feel like they want to use to nickname they were given at school, even they like it. If there is an issue of making people understand what a "user name" is, it might be better to have a short piece of explanatory text above the field, such as "Your computer needs to be able to recognise you as a user, so you need to provide it with a name you will use every time you want to use it." (I don't like that sentence but I can't find anything better) My £0.02 Bruno -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ask for a nickname in users-admin; Was: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
Thomas Templin wrote: > > I would vote for ... > and also for > 'Full Name' (DE_de: 'Vollständiger Name') > or better > 'Name Surname' (DE_de: 'Name Nachname') You'd know better than me if that's better in German - but it's certainly wrong (confusing) in English. Translations don't (and shouldn't) have to be literal. "Full Name" works in English. Other options like "Forename Surname", "Given Name Surname" are clumsy (largely because we can't decide what to call the first name). "Name Surname" suggests you are asking just for a Surname (as in "Name: Surname"), and your users will either presume the "short" or "login" name is the given name, or be waiting for another prompt. -- derek -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ask for a nickname in users-admin; Was: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
Am So, 28. Februar 2010 03:00:48 schrieb Charlie Kravetz: > On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:25:06 -0700 > > Kyle Law wrote: > > I have search for existing discussion on this list, system-tools-list > > discussion upstream and looked for a bug both in launchpad and upstream. > > I see no discussion on this issue. > > > > When you go to create a new user in lucid using users-admin part of the > > gnome-system-tools package. It asks you Short Name: In my opinion this > > should be left to username like it was in all previous releases. > > Shortname would not only be confusing for users but it is > > inconsistent. [...] > > I agree with you. "username" is more descriptive then "short name". It > is also easier to tell a new person to look you your home, it is under > your USER, than to tell them to look in your SHORT name. We use $USER > in programs, but I don't know if any use a variable called $SHORT ? I would vote for 'Login Name' (DE_de: 'Anmelde Name') instead of 'Short Name' (DE_de: 'Kurzer Name'; which in fact is incorrect it should be 'Kurzname') and also for 'Full Name' (DE_de: 'Vollständiger Name') or better 'Name Surname' (DE_de: 'Name Nachname') instead of 'Name'(DE_de: 'Name') Plus, a whishlist / point to discuss * ask for a nickname in users-admin? I had a discussion with Alessio Treglia , author of nautilus-pastebin (n-pb) on the pos and cons of using the login name or a nickname in n-pb. N-pb uses the login name by default wich is not what users do when they register themself to such services. Most of them prefer a nickname over their login name. There are more and more applications / use-cases which make use of nicknames. E.G. Launchpad and other web based registrations are done with a nickname, so are irc and many others. People neither tend to use their login names here nor their name surname. Login names are seen as very private by most people. What in the end makes it worth to discuss if it might be of interest having a nickname aside (or maybe instead) the office address, phone number, ... which may be used for web based registration as in nautilus-pastebin and launchpad. regards, thomas -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:25:06 -0700 Kyle Law wrote: > I have search for existing discussion on this list, system-tools-list > discussion upstream and looked for a bug both in launchpad and upstream. > I see no discussion on this issue.=20 > > When you go to create a new user in lucid using users-admin part of the > gnome-system-tools package. It asks you Short Name: In my opinion this > should be left to username like it was in all previous releases. > Shortname would not only be confusing for users but it is > inconsistent.=20 > > Due to this is more of a String Fix bug as a beginning programmer I > would be more then happy to write a patch for this.=20 > > Before I do anything I wanted to inquire on the community. > Does anyone disagree with me? > Would this really be a stringfix bug or am I getting over my head? > Was this change to users-admin made upstream or downstream? > Would the sponsorship process be a good way for me to get this pushed > upstream once I develop the patch. > > > Anzenketh > I agree with you. "username" is more descriptive then "short name". It is also easier to tell a new person to look you your home, it is under your USER, than to tell them to look in your SHORT name. We use $USER in programs, but I don't know if any use a variable called $SHORT ? -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Should Short really be username when creating a user in users-admin
I have search for existing discussion on this list, system-tools-list discussion upstream and looked for a bug both in launchpad and upstream. I see no discussion on this issue.=20 When you go to create a new user in lucid using users-admin part of the gnome-system-tools package. It asks you Short Name: In my opinion this should be left to username like it was in all previous releases. Shortname would not only be confusing for users but it is inconsistent.=20 Due to this is more of a String Fix bug as a beginning programmer I would be more then happy to write a patch for this.=20 Before I do anything I wanted to inquire on the community. Does anyone disagree with me? Would this really be a stringfix bug or am I getting over my head? Was this change to users-admin made upstream or downstream? Would the sponsorship process be a good way for me to get this pushed upstream once I develop the patch. Anzenketh -- Kyle Law signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
