Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Hi,
Since Hardy, Ubuntu doesn't provides any configuration for Wacom tablets
any more (Gutsy had the lines commented out, but they were there to be
used if necessary). Part of the reason not to provide commented out
lines might have been the abscence of a ServerLayout section in
xorg.conf with new Xorg servers - just uncommenting some lines might
lead to problems.
The move away from xorg.conf makes it really hard for Wacom tablet and
TabletPC users to configure their hardware. Most documentation they find
isn't valid anymore (one of the problem is creating a ServerLayout with
just the lines for the wacom devices, with X failing to start as a
result), and even with up-to-date documentation users have to figure
themselves what device they should configure, make sure they don't mix
lines between serial and USB tablets (most users would imagine their
TabletPC to be USB, which is most often wrong), and not forget the
special line for TabletPC, which is absent from most howto. We still
maintain the documentation at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom,
but when (if) users find it it's often after their install is messed up.
Graphic tablets are getting more common due to cheaper models, and even
if you're not a graphic artist, you'll find Wacom devices in many TabletPC.
With Intrepid, the stylus input is recognised by HAL when the file
10-wacom.fdi is present (comes with xserver-xorg-input-wacom. However,
only the stylus can be configured by this method. No eraser, no pad, no
touch, no cursor.
See
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-September/005778.html
> Note that the wacom driver doesn't fully support input-hotplug, since
> currently you need to initialize the driver multiple times to enable
> stylus/pen/foo, and that's not possible to do with HAL. The wacom fdi file
> configures the device as stylus..
Traditionnal graphical configuration tools like wacomcpl ("mandatory"
for LCD tablets like TabletPC and Cintiq tablets, it's included in
wacom-tools since Intrepid) don't work anymore since they assume hard
coded device names (stylus, eraser, cursor...) - see
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9d40e4ef0811072319r51d8b4c5sc3553db2627104c6%40mail.gmail.com
Now to the problem at hand for Jaunty:
Talking about using 3 (or more) different devices for wacom input
(instead of just the stylus like in Intrepid)
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-September/005780.html
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Timo Aaltonen wrote:
> It has been confirmed by upstream that what you propose is not possible to
> do with HAL, but instead the driver should use NewInputDeviceRequest() to
> accomplish the same. Unfortunately, that'll take some time, but here's
> hoping that the next six months are enough to have that in time for
> Jaunty. Someone needs to kick^H^H^H^Hask upstream :)
Where upstream means linuxwacom, see
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-October/005837.html
> I was referring to linuxwacom upstream, which should be aware of the problems
> with input-hotplug, but has not done anything about it AFAIK.
I contacted upstream, and their answer can be found at:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330811070926n3024605m7bd7baa6e24bfedf%40mail.gmail.com
Here is an extract:
> Hotplugg is a server-wide issue. It will be resolved for all input devices
> in Xorg, not just for Wacom devices.
>
>
>> - does wacomcpl support the fdi method? It doesn't recognise anything on my
>> setup, but it could also be a bug in the Ubuntu version.
>
>
> fdi isn't part of linuxwacom project. It belows to Xorg. The distributor, I
> think, will include it once it is ready.
>
> Ping
So what is Xorg going to do about wacom devices support, and how can we
make sure that, after one year, this support (or a distribution
solution) will at least make it into Jaunty?
Loïc
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Re: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Hi Loic,
The move away from xorg.conf has been to a new hal integration. Please see
the documentation in the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Input
Configuring an fdi for your tablet hardware should not be any more
difficult than an xorg and could probably be accomplished by a script. I
believe that the move to hal support for input devices will make the
autoconfiguration much more robust in the long run and hopefully give
xserver the ability to "just work".
--Dan
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Loïc Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Since Hardy, Ubuntu doesn't provides any configuration for Wacom tablets
> any more (Gutsy had the lines commented out, but they were there to be
> used if necessary). Part of the reason not to provide commented out
> lines might have been the abscence of a ServerLayout section in
> xorg.conf with new Xorg servers - just uncommenting some lines might
> lead to problems.
>
> The move away from xorg.conf makes it really hard for Wacom tablet and
> TabletPC users to configure their hardware. Most documentation they find
> isn't valid anymore (one of the problem is creating a ServerLayout with
> just the lines for the wacom devices, with X failing to start as a
> result), and even with up-to-date documentation users have to figure
> themselves what device they should configure, make sure they don't mix
> lines between serial and USB tablets (most users would imagine their
> TabletPC to be USB, which is most often wrong), and not forget the
> special line for TabletPC, which is absent from most howto. We still
> maintain the documentation at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom,
> but when (if) users find it it's often after their install is messed up.
>
> Graphic tablets are getting more common due to cheaper models, and even
> if you're not a graphic artist, you'll find Wacom devices in many TabletPC.
>
> With Intrepid, the stylus input is recognised by HAL when the file
> 10-wacom.fdi is present (comes with xserver-xorg-input-wacom. However,
> only the stylus can be configured by this method. No eraser, no pad, no
> touch, no cursor.
> See
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-September/005778.html
> > Note that the wacom driver doesn't fully support input-hotplug, since
> > currently you need to initialize the driver multiple times to enable
> > stylus/pen/foo, and that's not possible to do with HAL. The wacom fdi
> file
> > configures the device as stylus..
>
> Traditionnal graphical configuration tools like wacomcpl ("mandatory"
> for LCD tablets like TabletPC and Cintiq tablets, it's included in
> wacom-tools since Intrepid) don't work anymore since they assume hard
> coded device names (stylus, eraser, cursor...) - see
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9d40e4ef0811072319r51d8b4c5sc3553db2627104c6%40mail.gmail.com
>
>
> Now to the problem at hand for Jaunty:
>
> Talking about using 3 (or more) different devices for wacom input
> (instead of just the stylus like in Intrepid)
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-September/005780.html
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Timo Aaltonen wrote:
> > It has been confirmed by upstream that what you propose is not possible
> to
> > do with HAL, but instead the driver should use NewInputDeviceRequest() to
> > accomplish the same. Unfortunately, that'll take some time, but here's
> > hoping that the next six months are enough to have that in time for
> > Jaunty. Someone needs to kick^H^H^H^Hask upstream :)
>
> Where upstream means linuxwacom, see
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-October/005837.html
> > I was referring to linuxwacom upstream, which should be aware of the
> problems
> > with input-hotplug, but has not done anything about it AFAIK.
>
> I contacted upstream, and their answer can be found at:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330811070926n3024605m7bd7baa6e24bfedf%40mail.gmail.com
> Here is an extract:
> > Hotplugg is a server-wide issue. It will be resolved for all input
> devices
> > in Xorg, not just for Wacom devices.
> >
> >
> >> - does wacomcpl support the fdi method? It doesn't recognise anything on
> my
> >> setup, but it could also be a bug in the Ubuntu version.
> >
> >
> > fdi isn't part of linuxwacom project. It belows to Xorg. The distributor,
> I
> > think, will include it once it is ready.
> >
> > Ping
>
> So what is Xorg going to do about wacom devices support, and how can we
> make sure that, after one year, this support (or a distribution
> solution) will at least make it into Jaunty?
> Loïc
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>
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Re: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Dan Colish a écrit : > Hi Loic, > > The move away from xorg.conf has been to a new hal integration. Please see > the documentation in the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Input > Configuring an fdi for your tablet hardware should not be any more > difficult than an xorg and could probably be accomplished by a script. I > believe that the move to hal support for input devices will make the > autoconfiguration much more robust in the long run and hopefully give > xserver the ability to "just work". > > --Dan I've indeed read this page before, and it's really informative. For Wacom users we also have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom.fdi. Anyway, the file is also already shipped by xserver-xorg-input-wacom. However, I fail to see how this page would address any of the problems pointed in my precedent email. Cheers, Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
On Sun, 9 Nov 2008, Loïc Martin wrote: > I contacted upstream, and their answer can be found at: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330811070926n3024605m7bd7baa6e24bfedf%40mail.gmail.com > Here is an extract: >> Hotplugg is a server-wide issue. It will be resolved for all input devices >> in Xorg, not just for Wacom devices. > > So what is Xorg going to do about wacom devices support, and how can we > make sure that, after one year, this support (or a distribution > solution) will at least make it into Jaunty? > Loïc Seems like he didn't understand your question. "Resolved for all input devices" means input-hotplug which is used as you know.. The problem is just that wacomdrv doesn't have the options or infrastructure to configure stylus/eraser/pad all in one go. HAL/input-hotplug/xserver can't do that for the driver. Seems like some work is happening, but so far no comments from Ping: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20081009171824.GV5387%40cathedrallabs.org&forum_name=linuxwacom-devel t -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Timo Aaltonen a écrit : > On Sun, 9 Nov 2008, Loïc Martin wrote: > >> I contacted upstream, and their answer can be found at: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330811070926n3024605m7bd7baa6e24bfedf%40mail.gmail.com >> >> Here is an extract: >>> Hotplugg is a server-wide issue. It will be resolved for all input >>> devices >>> in Xorg, not just for Wacom devices. >> >> So what is Xorg going to do about wacom devices support, and how can we >> make sure that, after one year, this support (or a distribution >> solution) will at least make it into Jaunty? >> Loïc > > Seems like he didn't understand your question. "Resolved for all input > devices" means input-hotplug which is used as you know.. The problem is > just that wacomdrv doesn't have the options or infrastructure to > configure stylus/eraser/pad all in one go. HAL/input-hotplug/xserver > can't do that for the driver. Thanks for the correction. I thought input-hotplug problem was fixed in recent Xorg (at least it works with Wacom devices using the .fdi file, and it also works for joysticks but I can't remember having any problem before). Does "resolved for all input devices" mean "working without an .fdi file"? The 10-wacom.fdi that we have in Intrepid would be quite usefull for storing configuration somewhere else than in xorg.conf (which I hope we're done with, since editing a device properties shouldn't let users risk hosing their Xorg), even though tools would have to be created for that (it's xml). The solution adopted by wacomcpl is just the creation of an .xinirtc with a few xsetwacom commands, and that's not a perfect solution. > Seems like some work is happening, but so far no comments from Ping: > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20081009171824.GV5387%40cathedrallabs.org&forum_name=linuxwacom-devel Thanks, I had skipped this email. I just replied to the linuxwacom list, and pointed to the discussion occuring here and in ubuntu-x Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Alberto Milone a écrit : > On Monday 10 November 2008 01:42:32 Bryce Harrington wrote: >> Interesting post to u-d-d worth discussion here. >> >> Offhand, I don't know how much effort is needed for properly fixing >> wacom, but if it's unlikely to be done in time, perhaps a simple python >> GUI based on x-kit to do the manual configuration (putting in the lines >> that we shipped commented out in Hardy), could be done? >> >> Anyone else have ideas on this topic? >> >> Bryce > > As regards the steps required to configure tablets in the xorg.conf, we can > use X-Kit without problems. There are other things should deal with too: > > 1) if bluetooth tablets aren't supported by the hidp kernel module in > Jaunty's > kernel we may want to package the latest release of the driver with DKMS so > that users won't have to recompile it every time the kernel is updated and, > above all, they won't have to do make && make install manually (which is not > exactly user friendly). I second that. > 2) update the linux wacom driver to the latest (even beta) release. I think it's already the case, Intrepid use the beta driver 0.8.1.4, and Jaunty uses the 0.8.1.6. 0.8.1.4 has a bug that severly affect some users (input freeze when the pen touch the screen), thus the threads where everybody is advise to compile the drivers (not necessary, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/LatestDriver ) even when it's just an xorg.conf problem. However, we could stress the importance of SRU updates, but from my experience the sync between ubuntu packages and upstream has been quite good since Feisty. For Intrepid and 0.8.1.6, there's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/291908 which we could use for an SRU. Anyone taking care of that? My last SRU was for Gutsy, I could try and find again what the steps are, but it took one month and a half for just a single dependency addition to an universe package - no source change, and I can already see Jaunty releasing before an SRU from a non-developer was be accepted. > 3) modify the /etc/udev/rules.d/50-xserver-xorg-input-wacom.rules according > to > the wacom tablet model (if required). There's a discussion about that - only seems required for a small number of TabletPC that support touch in addition to the stylus/eraser/etc. At the moment, the consensus could be /dev/input/wacom for stylus (doesn't break previous xorg.conf and existing howto) /dev/input/wacom-touch for touch. See http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=linuxwacom-devel&max_rows=25&style=nested&viewmonth=200810 and http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=linuxwacom-devel&max_rows=25&style=nested&viewmonth=200811 especially http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330810291653v262ae4b7rf8fa71cedfada430%40mail.gmail.com > 4) remove the .fdi file for wacom tablets The .fdi file doesn't conflict with xorg.conf if the tablet is plugged at boot (also the case with TabletPC). Also, it would make a safer place for users and programs to tinkle with configuration settings than xorg.conf (if we manage to get the wacom driver and HAL working for eraser/cursor/pad/touch also). > 5) make it easy for users to set customised stroke pressure and inverted > scrolling. > > Basically users should be allowed to choose between lines between serial, > USB, > bluetooth tablets, and specify whether the tablet is part of a TabletPC. > Things should (mostly) just work. Device pairing in bluetooth tablets should > be done manually but we can include instructions in the program. Maybe a > simple UI (a configuration wizard) would be enough. > > What do you think? Having an UI to configure wacom devices is a really good idea. You can have a look at wacomcpl for ideas for options and how it works. Actually, developing an UI wouldn't just be a stopgap mesure for Jaunty if Xorg & wacom don't get HAL/wacom sorted out in time, since your UI could as well output the configuration in xorg.conf or in 10-wacom.fdi. The options are the same (same name, same parameters) and converting an xorg.conf option into an xml .fdi line is straightforward. Even if xorg.conf isn't used anymore and Xorg would allow complete autodetection of the wacom devices, there will always be a need for a GUI tool so users can chose their settings. Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 05:47:38PM +0100, Lo?c Martin wrote: > > 2) update the linux wacom driver to the latest (even beta) release. > > I think it's already the case, Intrepid use the beta driver 0.8.1.4, and > Jaunty uses the 0.8.1.6. 0.8.1.4 has a bug that severly affect some > users (input freeze when the pen touch the screen), thus the threads > where everybody is advise to compile the drivers (not necessary, see > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/LatestDriver ) even when it's > just an xorg.conf problem. > > However, we could stress the importance of SRU updates, but from my > experience the sync between ubuntu packages and upstream has been quite > good since Feisty. > For Intrepid and 0.8.1.6, there's > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/291908 which > we could use for an SRU. Anyone taking care of that? My last SRU was for > Gutsy, I could try and find again what the steps are, but it took one > month and a half for just a single dependency addition to an universe > package - no source change, and I can already see Jaunty releasing > before an SRU from a non-developer was be accepted. The process is written at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates If you would do steps 2.1, 2.2, and 2.4, I can take care of all the other steps. If you're comfortable doing some coding/patch work, doing step 2.3 as well would be a huge help and would speed this process along considerably. If not, I can try to fit it in my todo list but I'm pretty swamped so may not be able to get to it very soon. > Having an UI to configure wacom devices is a really good idea. You can > have a look at wacomcpl for ideas for options and how it works. > Actually, developing an UI wouldn't just be a stopgap mesure for Jaunty > if Xorg & wacom don't get HAL/wacom sorted out in time, since your UI > could as well output the configuration in xorg.conf or in 10-wacom.fdi. Cool, Loic can we ask you to draw a quick mockup of one or two ideas on how it could work and be laid out? A scanned in paper sketch would be fine, or if you want to get fancy then done up in Gimp or Glade would be great. I think this would be helpful to code to, if we do go this route. Bryce -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Bryce Harrington a écrit : > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 05:47:38PM +0100, Lo?c Martin wrote: >>> 2) update the linux wacom driver to the latest (even beta) release. >> I think it's already the case, Intrepid use the beta driver 0.8.1.4, and >> Jaunty uses the 0.8.1.6. 0.8.1.4 has a bug that severly affect some >> users (input freeze when the pen touch the screen), thus the threads >> where everybody is advise to compile the drivers (not necessary, see >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/LatestDriver ) even when it's >> just an xorg.conf problem. >> >> However, we could stress the importance of SRU updates, but from my >> experience the sync between ubuntu packages and upstream has been quite >> good since Feisty. > >> For Intrepid and 0.8.1.6, there's >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/291908 which >> we could use for an SRU. Anyone taking care of that? My last SRU was for >> Gutsy, I could try and find again what the steps are, but it took one >> month and a half for just a single dependency addition to an universe >> package - no source change, and I can already see Jaunty releasing >> before an SRU from a non-developer was be accepted. > > The process is written at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates > > If you would do steps 2.1, 2.2, and 2.4, I can take care of all the > other steps. I'll have a look at it. However, if we're aiming for an SRU (even though I'm all for it) there's Bug #292248: which suggest some Ubuntu/Debian patches might get in the way. Sadly, the LWP doesn't list the 0.8.1.4 (binary or source) drivers from the Linux Wacom Project, else Matheus could have tried if they work for him. Let's hope I'm wrong and an 0.8.1.6 Ubuntu packages fixes it. If I'm completely wrong somebody might remember a bug in the LWP that show they also encountered this bug in 0.8.1.4. But before doing steps 2.1 and following, getting an Ubuntu package so the users can test might help with 2.3 I'm planning to get up to speed with building packages for Jaunty, but that will take me about a week (no kidding) of reading, and I can't code (strangely, patching sometimes work on my end, but writting the patch itself is out of my league). Jaunty still has 0.8.1.4, so I can't just apt-get source, rebuild it for Intrepid and propose it to test to users affected with the bug. Last time i tried packaging xserver-xorg-input-wacom was for Feisty, and after a few days I had to admit it's out of my league. I can apply a patch that's done for a certain code, but the code between 2 versions of the drivers change and patches from the last Ubuntu package aren't straightforward on another version of the source code. > If you're comfortable doing some coding/patch work, doing step 2.3 as > well would be a huge help and would speed this process along > considerably. If not, I can try to fit it in my todo list but I'm > pretty swamped so may not be able to get to it very soon. It's not I'm not confortable, it's just I don't know how to code and I've tried that with xserver-xorg-input-wacom before, so I know it's not an easy one (Timo Aaltonen has done great job for wacom drivers :hint: ). However, if somebody can offer an 0.8.1.6 ubuntu package, or get one into Jaunty, I can help other people try it and test it, and summarize it for step 2.3 >> Having an UI to configure wacom devices is a really good idea. You can >> have a look at wacomcpl for ideas for options and how it works. >> Actually, developing an UI wouldn't just be a stopgap mesure for Jaunty >> if Xorg & wacom don't get HAL/wacom sorted out in time, since your UI >> could as well output the configuration in xorg.conf or in 10-wacom.fdi. > > Cool, Loic can we ask you to draw a quick mockup of one or two ideas on > how it could work and be laid out? A scanned in paper sketch would be > fine, or if you want to get fancy then done up in Gimp or Glade would be > great. I think this would be helpful to code to, if we do go this > route. I'll get into it tomorrow. i'll create a page on the wiki, post some mockups (for tonight I've spend too much time on launchpad already ;) ) and keep ubuntu-x in touch - ETA should be (at the maximum) before the end of the week. Ping also replied on linuxwacom (see http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=167e8a330811100954w6bacffddw3442469fa6b8447e%40mail.gmail.com ) > The new hotplugging (Xorg 1.5.1 or later) will be supported with linuxwacom > version 0.8.4 (0.8.3 will be its unstable release) Thanks, Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
I forgot to point out that besides wacomcpl there's also Tablet Apps http://alexmac.cc/tablet-apps/ which has a really nice interface and is already programmed AFAIR in python. None of them support the initial configuration of wacom devices (even in xorg) and would need to be patched to support the fdi method for saving the options they set up, but they already support setting the "fine tuning" options of the devices (Tablet Apps might not support calibration of the stylus necessary Cintiq/TabletPC). I'll do the mockups, but the programmer might save time and efforts especially with Tablet Apps since it's in python (and really nice). Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Bryce Harrington wrote: > Cool, Loic can we ask you to draw a quick mockup of one or two ideas on > how it could work and be laid out? A scanned in paper sketch would be > fine, or if you want to get fancy then done up in Gimp or Glade would be > great. I think this would be helpful to code to, if we do go this > route. > > Bryce I've done a mockup at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/PropertiesMockup and I'm attaching a compressed Inkscape SVG. Only the first I also started a thread for discussing this possible tool on linuxwacom-discuss (so we don't mix discussion about the tool and discussion of the solution adopted for Jaunty). As for request on the LWP side it's nice if this discussion happens in LWP's mailing list, so other distribution have the opportunity to see what we do and participate. The thread is at http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=4919DE29.5090906%40gmail.com&forum_name=linuxwacom-discuss linuxwacom developers (including Ron, the Debian maintainer) feels that it is really important that Ubuntu developers participate in the LWP mailing lists. I can act as a liaison, but I'm no developer and I don't know if any of you is on the LWP lists. Now, for a summary of the situation: - Intrepid : The impression was that the xorg.conf wacom configuration would conflict with HAL fdi configuration. They don't. It was probably a mistake, the wacom lines could have been present in xorg.conf and commented out (for the sake of KDE users I believe), and users would have edited their xorg.conf like before (no need for .fdi, we could have waited for the solution to mature). Not good, but they're ending up having to edit it in Intrepid anyway. We could even have kept the .fdi, the xorg.conf configuration would have been ok if the tablet was plugged at boot, while when hotplugging the tablet would have been picked up by HAL (only stylus working). TabletPC would have been perfect (except for the bug in U's 0.8.1.4 drivers for some). - Jaunty: LWP 0.8.2 stable drivers will ship soon, they will end up in Jaunty since there's no point keeping with an older beta. They're a strong option if we go for the xorg.conf method. Lenny will most probably switch from 0.7.9.3 to 0.8.2 (but we haven't synced them with testing in ages, we get everything from unstable) 0.8.3.X will follow, beta drivers but they will support having multiple devices with the .fdi method. They will still support xorg.conf method, but using the fdi we'll get input/hotplug, a safer method for our userbase with the fdi (you can't hose X that way, while everybody and their dog can hose X with a single character at the bad place). We're also used to shipping beta drivers in Ubuntu, so there'll be nothing new. Regardless, we need a graphical configuration tool for enabling the devices. We've been needing it from before Ubuntu ever shiped a distribution. We might have been needing it from before Wacom tablets ever shipped. Any work on that tool isn't going to be wasted, for the sole reason that the Gnome desktop has nothing planned for that (they've got keyboard properties, mouse properties, but nothing for Tablets or AFAIK joysticks). Gnome might get aboard actually, the desktop needs it. KDE I don't know, but I believe KDE users still have to set their xorg.conf manually, so they also need this tool. Enabling the tablet and setting device properties are done in the fdi file (or xorg.conf). Even in the highly unlikely situation that Xorg starts -selling popcorn- autodetecting and setting up tablets and TabletPC properly, the desktop will still need to ship with an UI for the tablet devices properties. For TabletPC and Cintiq, calibration is mandatory, and we also need an UI for the ExpressKeys. If an Ubuntu developer can program the tool, I can go ahead and detail (on the wiki) exactly what options are necessary for what model of tablet/TabletPC, ask our users for the models I'm not sure and do the liason with upstream for double check. And organise some testing. So if you tell me you can handle the GUI programming and the parsing/editing of either xorg.conf or/and the fdi (for choosing only the Bryce will know better than me if we can expect Xorg to be mature enough in Jaunty, since for LWP 0.8.3.X should get the code fairly soon), not knowing the specific aspects of the wacom options beforehand shouldn't be a problem. Loïc P.S: Bryce, for the 0.8.1.6 SRU in Intrepid do you still want me to start the process, or is there a way we'll get some 0.8.1.6 packages to get some tests before? <>-- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Loïc Martin wrote on 11/11/08 20:50: >... > I've done a mockup at > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/PropertiesMockup and I'm > attaching a compressed Inkscape SVG. Only the first This looks like a good start. However, it should be on wiki.ubuntu.com (or live.gnome.org), not help.ubuntu.com, because it's not a help page. > I also started a thread for discussing this possible tool on > linuxwacom-discuss (so we don't mix discussion about the tool and > discussion of the solution adopted for Jaunty). As for request on the > LWP side it's nice if this discussion happens in LWP's mailing list, so > other distribution have the opportunity to see what we do and > participate. The thread is at > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=4919DE29.5090906%40gmail.com&forum_name=linuxwacom-discuss I'm not keen on joining another mailing list just to design one window (especially since, as shown by its Web archive, a majority of its messages are spam). But you're welcome to forward this feedback there. In Gnome, mouse and touchpad settings are handled in a single tabbed window. Why should tablet settings be in a separate window? Could they instead be another tab in the same window? What is the "Activate Tablet" checkbox for? In what situations would you want it to be unchecked? "Tablet model" seems to be followed by a button. What does the button do? If it's for changing the tablet model if it was incorrectly detected, would an option menu work better? "Write configuration in /etc/X11/xorg.conf" and "Write Xorg HAL configuration file in /etc/hal/fdi/policy" are both utter gibberish. How could they be eliminated? It's not clear what the "Stylus" or "Calibrate" buttons do. Could they be reworded? I can guess what "Sensitivity" and "Smoothness" are, but I have no idea what "Click Force" or "Sup[p]ress Points" mean. Could they be reworded to be more understandable? (By the way, slider labels should use sentence case, not title case.) How would I tell whether I'd set the correct values for any of those sliders? Should the window contain a test drawing area? Would it make sense to change "Layout" to "Buttons"? That seems to more precisely cover what you set in the tab. I suggest making menus look different from buttons in the mockup, otherwise it's hard to tell which is which. I don't understand the distinction between "Apply", "Save", and "Close". If changes took effect immediately, none of those buttons would be necessary. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkka8s0ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecr6wgCePKYoKyhxd6nm9fxndaqt1jRr 4hkAoMbdFRaw64RThz3Wr5EjWRtfc+jC =TdgI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-x] Fwd: Wacom tablets, TabletPC and Xorg support for Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty)
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote : > Loïc Martin wrote on 11/11/08 20:50: >> ... >> I've done a mockup at >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom/PropertiesMockup and I'm >> attaching a compressed Inkscape SVG. Only the first > > This looks like a good start. However, it should be on wiki.ubuntu.com > (or live.gnome.org), not help.ubuntu.com, because it's not a help page. I'll move it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wacom/PropertiesMockup. I might wait a day or so till I have an updated mockup. >> I also started a thread for discussing this possible tool on >> linuxwacom-discuss (so we don't mix discussion about the tool and >> discussion of the solution adopted for Jaunty). As for request on the >> LWP side it's nice if this discussion happens in LWP's mailing list, so >> other distribution have the opportunity to see what we do and >> participate. The thread is at >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=4919DE29.5090906%40gmail.com&forum_name=linuxwacom-discuss > > I'm not keen on joining another mailing list just to design one window > (especially since, as shown by its Web archive, a majority of its > messages are spam). But you're welcome to forward this feedback there. I had the same problem. Filter [SPAM] in the subject and [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the recipient and you'll be safe (not much traffic compared to ubuntu-devel-discuss). I can run around and try to mix the two discussions together, but it's going to be increasingly difficult. We need linuxwacom input on the subject. I'm sure we all agree we want their opinion (the tool itself would need their input, especially for TabletPC) and a collaboration would add tremendous value to our users. They always end up looking at linuxwacom for documentation, and having it conflict with the method in Ubuntu means we'll keep having forum threads and erroneous Launchpad bug reports where people were advised by fellow Ubuntu users to compile the drivers and follow an outdated model (/dev/input/event# on USB, /whatever/ttsy0 for TabletPC) for the configuration. I'd understand it might not be possible, but if you could get into the list for the first discussions, even deactivating receiving emails from the list while keeping the possibility to forward your own emails to linuxwacom-discuss, that would really help. I'm sure they'd appreciate an @canonical address showing up here and there ;) > In Gnome, mouse and touchpad settings are handled in a single tabbed > window. Why should tablet settings be in a separate window? Could they > instead be another tab in the same window? I don't know why they couldn't. However, if we want this program to be also "endorsed" by the Linux Wacom Project, it can't pull a dependency on Gnome. See Ron's email at http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20081112162718.GA11442%40homer.shelbyville.oz&forum_name=linuxwacom-discuss Ron wrote: >>> > > Preferably something simple that works without forcing KDE >>> > > or GNOME etc. on people -- but we can keep this in a separate >>> > > package so the core linuxwacom driver deps can remain minimal. >> > >> > It needs to integrate better than a motif application though ;) > > If it's vanilla gtk widgets, you won't hear too many complaints > from me :) If people _have_ to install large chunks of KDE or > GNOME (or motif:) to use it though, that may not be as popular. > > I can't really think of anything it would need from them anyway, > but if there is something, it should probably be an optional extra > either as some sort of plugin, or that detects them at runtime if > they are present (and works for most other things if they are not). Keybooad and Mouse are already separate in Gnome. I don't see a tablet as a mouse, nor a mouse as an "extended input device", but it's also up to what other people think (LWP, Gnome, KDE) and what distributions think. We've got Ron input for Debian, let's hope we can get Fedora/Suse/RH/Mandriva/Gentoo opinion. Using different configuration tools when switching desktop/distributions is hardly a good user experience, and tablets/TabletPC are still niche enough that duplicate programming efforts can't reasonably be expected. Back to your email: > What is the "Activate Tablet" checkbox for? In what situations would you > want it to be unchecked? There's decent probalility the HAL method will still not work for Jaunty. See the LWP discussion, but if HAL really can't change their opinion, the workarounds aren't clear. "Activate Tablet" is there for the xorg.conf method. It would write the configuration in xorg.conf or remove it at will (as long as we keep the statu quo in Ubuntu, which is no xorg.conf wacom lines by default). If an user doesn't use a Tablet anymore (or prefer the .fdi method), we need also to provide a way to revert the xorg.conf The fdi HAL method wouldn't require it - the tablet is plugged, it's already active (I suppose the .fdi won't cause problems for KDE like xorg.conf does). > "Tablet model
