Re: [ubuntu-web] feedback on new wiki theme
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Dougie Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I think it's appropriate to go with a fixed-width theme for the documentation site because content here is meant to be read as a page. I disagree - the problem with fixed width is that at some point we have to make assumptions as to the screen size used to access as well as how the reader wants to read the information. I feel that these both should be left to the reader not pre-defined by the writer. I'm finding that I use devices such as web books a lot more now and find I am much more aware of how information is presented. there is frequently a tendency amongst web designers to put aesthetics over usability (something I am sure you are not guilty of) and the use of fixed width pages fits these criteria whole heartedly. Hi Dougie, you make some excellent points. First of all, what I love most about the theme is the typography. I feel the line height, font size and face lend to great readability. I also like the contrast between the content area and the background. It draws your attention to the foreground content. Sometimes I see a fixed-width page and I just feel like it looks so lonely sitting there in the middle of such wide margins to either side. Especially on a single column site like this one. But when I stop looking at the design of the site and just start using it I like it much better. The narrow column width really pulls you into the site's content. (and seriously, its not that narrow with a content width of 820px and a column width of 875px) I've used this theme for a bit now and browsed many different pages and feel that the it works very nicely on a content-heavy page. I've maximized my browser window (1280x800) to hopefully get a taste of the pain experienced by people who use their browser this way typically and honestly I think that overall its an improvement. So I wonder if there's anything we can do to make the thick margins on wider browser windows less distracting - less empty. Something to draw your eyes away from the blank space and into the content without at the same time creating a distraction in itself. Matt, regarding the edit bar at the bottom, we should set it up so that the links are either centered under the content area or are left aligned below the left side of the content of the page. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-web] feedback on new wiki theme
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Neal McBurnett wrote on 09/09/08 00:12: ... It is common to focus on a fixed width design as narrow, but for many users the big issue is that it is fixed. On a wide page it looks narrow, but on a narrow page it is nearly unusable since it is wider than the window, and requires using the horizontal scroll bar to read each line. As others have mentioned, the fact that the user can't control the width of the content is the real issue, and the reason fluid designs are very popular. ... This is all a false dichotomy. Instead of setting a fixed width, or a fluid width, set a max-width. That way the page is narrow in narrow windows, and wider in wide windows, without becoming over-wide. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIxjUp6PUxNfU6ecoRAoWNAKCSE6tvozPoecB4wq/VZpJRlaaNcQCgyigg izus7UwTRSc3udFqh5LZrHs= =FdH1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 05:45:42PM -0500, Matthew Nuzum wrote: I disagree - the problem with fixed width is that at some point we have to make assumptions as to the screen size used to access as well as how the reader wants to read the information. I feel that these both should be left to the reader not pre-defined by the writer. snip Sometimes I see a fixed-width page and I just feel like it looks so lonely sitting there in the middle of such wide margins to either side. Especially on a single column site like this one. But when I stop looking at the design of the site and just start using it I like it much better. The narrow column width really pulls you into the site's content. (and seriously, its not that narrow with a content width of 820px and a column width of 875px) I've used this theme for a bit now and browsed many different pages and feel that the it works very nicely on a content-heavy page. I've maximized my browser window (1280x800) to hopefully get a taste of the pain experienced by people who use their browser this way typically and honestly I think that overall its an improvement. It is common to focus on a fixed width design as narrow, but for many users the big issue is that it is fixed. On a wide page it looks narrow, but on a narrow page it is nearly unusable since it is wider than the window, and requires using the horizontal scroll bar to read each line. As others have mentioned, the fact that the user can't control the width of the content is the real issue, and the reason fluid designs are very popular. This is of course famously a problem for folks with narrow screens (e.g. handheld computers). But it is also often a problem for folks with big screens. E.g. I often use the very practical info in a wiki interactively, looking back and forth between a narrow web page on the left and a terminal window on the right, and wanting as much material, and page height, as I can get. A fixed design thwarts that plan. So as earlier posters have said, what is wrong with keeping the fluidity of the current design, letting the user choose how wide to make their browser window, and thus how long their lines of text should be? The rest of the design can match ubuntu.com, where graphics and other design considerations can be an issue, but for a wiki, I think fixed-width is the wrong choice. Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: feedback on new wiki theme
Hi, I think it's appropriate to go with a fixed-width theme for the documentation site because content here is meant to be read as a page. The wiki formating should be adjusted to generally work at this width. Consistency with ubuntu.com is also a plus! I disagree - the problem with fixed width is that at some point we have to make assumptions as to the screen size used to access as well as how the reader wants to read the information. I feel that these both should be left to the reader not pre-defined by the writer. I'm finding that I use devices such as web books a lot more now and find I am much more aware of how information is presented. A circumstance where a single page format is appropriate would be for printing; even then this would likely be repaginated. Apologies if this sounds preachy but there is frequently a tendency amongst web designers to put aesthetics over usability (something I am sure you are not guilty of) and the use of fixed width pages fits these criteria whole heartedly. Regards, Dougie -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Hi guys, On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 23:09 +0100, Matthew East wrote: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Jordan Mantha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. I did think about this, but one of the points of the theme was to be consistent with the ubuntu.com website. As a result I'm pretty reluctant to depart from that unless the ubuntu.com website design changes. For the purposes of documentation, it would be better to keep the narrower page width for the chosen font size. Narrower columns of text are easier to scan (c.f. newspapers, magazines) [1] [2]. Thanks, Phil [1] - http://hid.fidelity.com/q31998/column.htm [2] - http://www.bastoky.com/KeyRelations.htm -- Phil Bull https://launchpad.net/people/philbull -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
I don't like fixed width pages personally (my computer should do what I want, not what someone else wants me to want), but you can appease more reasonable people by changing width: NNNpx statements to width: NNem or max-width: NNem. Using em rather than px fixes the width at a certain number of times the height of the element's font, so you should always get the same number of characters on a line, no matter the user's font size. Using max-width instead of width makes life easier for people who have particularly narrow screens (or large fonts), but will give you problems with IE. Then again everything gives you problems with IE, so I generally code to the standard then add IE-specific CSS by adding something like: !--[if lt IE 7] link href=ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet ![endif]-- !--[if lte IE 7] link href=ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet/ ![endif]-- This gives you an ie6.css file that's rendered in all IEs before IE7, and an ie7.css that's rendered in all IEs before IE8. IE8 allegedly won't need its own file of special cases, but it should be obvious how to extend the technique if you find that's not the case. This technique is based on that recommended by the IE team for including IE-specific CSS: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/10/12/480242.aspx - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Remco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This gives you an ie6.css file that's rendered in all IEs before IE7, and an ie7.css that's rendered in all IEs before IE8. IE8 allegedly won't need its own file of special cases, but it should be obvious how to extend the technique if you find that's not the case. This technique is based on that recommended by the IE team for including IE-specific CSS: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/10/12/480242.aspx Why would the Ubuntu wiki have to be readable by IE, let alone by IE6? Because many people read it when their Ubuntu-computer has crashed, and we really want to be nice to those who are deciding if Ubuntu is for them. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
This gives you an ie6.css file that's rendered in all IEs before IE7, and an ie7.css that's rendered in all IEs before IE8. IE8 allegedly won't need its own file of special cases, but it should be obvious how to extend the technique if you find that's not the case. This technique is based on that recommended by the IE team for including IE-specific CSS: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/10/12/480242.aspx Why would the Ubuntu wiki have to be readable by IE, let alone by IE6? Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Friday 05 September 2008 16:56, Matthew East wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive. To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think. It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you are really keen, patches! The code is here: Unfortunately due to the openID improvements, the wiki is currently broken with Konqueror, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/259436 for details, so it will a while before it could be reasonably tested with Konqueror. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Thank you everyone for your comments so far. I've already made changes to my branch which address some of the comments. I can't reply individually to each suggestion but I'm considering them all. Please keep them coming! -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: feedback on new wiki theme
Hi all, This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). I have to agree with Jordan here. While I appreciate the aesthetic appeal of rounded corners, I am aware of the problems in using them and maintaining cross browser portability. A fluid width would be an improvement, especially if we consider the usage scenario of someone placing a browser and a terminal window side by side to follow a howto. I do rather like the theme and it ties in with the colour scheme and so on but from a usability point of view, namely consistency, why aren't we using red for links as the other Ubuntu sites do? The typeface choice is very clear and the theme doesn't overwhelm the message - I think it's definitely suitable. Cheers, Dougie -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Jordan Mantha wrote: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive. To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think. It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you are really keen, patches! The code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). -Jordan I like the new theme as well, and agree that the page should not be statically sized. If we want to implement the static size somewhere, it may be more appropriate for the official docs, not the community documentation (then it's more like reading a book or a manual). It is easier to post about things that immediately bother me a bit, so I will do so now: -The background shading is nice, but it only needs a little bit on the side, with the rest of the screen available for text and screenshots (when applicable). Also, the shading is different in size from ubuntu.com, which I would not have noticed if I didn't view the two pages side by side. Do we want it to match? -I'm not entirely sure I like how the horizontal bars are missing in Title 1 headings, but I'm willing to give that a try, I mention that because I believe they are useful for separation in a properly formatted page. -I also noticed that the Tabs in the upper right are gone, so it feels a bit empty on that part of the page. Will these be re-added? -I think the Page History link at the end of a page should be in the non-moving footer. -The copyright part of the footer seems a little awkward. I think we can condense it so that there isn't whitespace between the two lines. We may even want to separate it with a small horizontal rule, perhaps of width slightly longer than the text, but not the full page width (details, details). In the old theme the copyright footer had a different background color, which separated it from the page content and therefore made it less intrusive. Ideas for improvement aside, I really like this theme - it doesn't really take any getting used to (which is good), and looks much more clean and professional than the older theme. I really hope we can have this ready in advance of Intrepid. Thanks for making this happen! -Connor -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
I'm trying to view the new theme but having a problem logging into help! I've never seen this type of problem before, perhaps someone out there has. I'm able to login but the credentials at the top-right aren't displayed properly. I've attached a screenshot. It may be something that I'm doing. Thanks. On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Jordan Mantha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive. To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think. It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you are really keen, patches! The code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). -Jordan -- ubuntu-doc mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc attachment: launchpad_login.png-- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Matthew East wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). I like the new theme. Nice and clean! (spoken as a co-designer of the original theme ;) ) I think it's appropriate to go with a fixed-width theme for the documentation site because content here is meant to be read as a page. The wiki formating should be adjusted to generally work at this width. Consistency with ubuntu.com is also a plus! On the development wiki OTOH we do have a lot of content that would benefit from a fluid layout, incl. large tables, code fragments and theme shots. For that wiki I would suggest a derivative of this theme that is even more minimalistic WRT layout so that it can flow and load faster (basically remove the bitmapped frames and just use a large white page with an edit bar at the bottom). Henrik -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: feedback on new wiki theme
Hmm...this may be a bug in Launchpad - when I try to update my theme (to the new ubuntunew theme) I get an error stating: Invalid user name 'https://login.launchpad.net/+id/QCAQfkn'. Name may contain any Unicode alpha numeric character, with optional one space between words. Group page name is not allowed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Henrik Nilsen Omma Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 8:42 AM To: Matthew East Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ubuntu Doc Subject: Re: feedback on new wiki theme Matthew East wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). I like the new theme. Nice and clean! (spoken as a co-designer of the original theme ;) ) I think it's appropriate to go with a fixed-width theme for the documentation site because content here is meant to be read as a page. The wiki formating should be adjusted to generally work at this width. Consistency with ubuntu.com is also a plus! On the development wiki OTOH we do have a lot of content that would benefit from a fluid layout, incl. large tables, code fragments and theme shots. For that wiki I would suggest a derivative of this theme that is even more minimalistic WRT layout so that it can flow and load faster (basically remove the bitmapped frames and just use a large white page with an edit bar at the bottom). Henrik -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
2008/9/5 Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive. To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think. It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you are really keen, patches! The code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static pages, both with the new and old themes? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static pages, both with the new and old themes? There are some screenshots here - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/wikitheme/ Note that the testing theme is available on the *help* wiki, at https://help.ubuntu.com/community and not the development wiki yet. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
2008/9/6 Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static pages, both with the new and old themes? There are some screenshots here - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/wikitheme/ Note that the testing theme is available on the *help* wiki, at https://help.ubuntu.com/community and not the development wiki yet. I would see the same thing in the screenshots that you do. Post actual pages that I can test with different page widths, text sizes, and other browser options. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive. To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think. It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you are really keen, patches! The code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 14:31 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). There is one usability issue with letting the content get too wide, however. If you've ever used LaTeX, it defaults to something like 65 char/line. The reason is that as the lines get longer, it becomes more difficult to track which line one is reading. Upon reaching the end of the line, the eyes must scroll much further left to find the beginning of the next line, and the longer the lines are the harder it is to track and the more likely one is to do that thing where a line is read twice or a line is skipped. You'll also notice this principle in how newspapers and textbooks do columns. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Hi Jordan! On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Jordan Mantha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. I did think about this, but one of the points of the theme was to be consistent with the ubuntu.com website. As a result I'm pretty reluctant to depart from that unless the ubuntu.com website design changes. That's probably a discussion we could have separately on the ubuntu-website list (which I'm adding back into cc). -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-web] feedback on new wiki theme
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jordan! On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Jordan Mantha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. I did think about this, but one of the points of the theme was to be consistent with the ubuntu.com website. As a result I'm pretty reluctant to depart from that unless the ubuntu.com website design changes. I don't think that a documentation website and the main website need to be consistent (beside basic branding). They just serve for different purpouses. And while the new theme is nice and I applaud your effort, I still like the old theme more. Stefano -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 06:07:49PM -0400, Connor Imes wrote: Jordan Mantha wrote: On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace the existing themes on the documentation wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of the screen which follows the window as you scroll). My top priority for editing would be to put save changes next to the comment on the edit, at end of edit box. This would help folks add comments which I find very helpful (and almost mandatory on wikipedia) The most problematic dimension on my screen is vertical. The floating footer takes yet more vertical space away from the viewing and edit window, and that makes it much harder to have enough context when I read or edit. So I'd leave those at the top, or put them at the bottom of the whole page if you prefer. It would also help to tighten up or move the help examples in the edit window. When I preview an edit, I hate scrolling past the edit window to get to the preview. I find that my name at the bottom overlaps text while editing. More comments below This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). I agree with the desire to have a fluid view. When I want a narrow one I'll make my window narrow. I know there are different preferences on that, but that is my preference, both for this wiki and for ubuntu.com. But I don't see why we would need to preserve the lack of fluidity of ubuntu.com - we could keep the same branding and just change the fluidity. I figure a wiki has a different mission and much simpler layout than more complicated custom professional ubuntu.com pages. I like the new theme as well, and agree that the page should not be statically sized. If we want to implement the static size somewhere, it may be more appropriate for the official docs, not the community documentation (then it's more like reading a book or a manual). Right. -I also noticed that the Tabs in the upper right are gone, so it feels a bit empty on that part of the page. Will these be re-added? Right. It seems to me that the tabs are pretty important. -I think the Page History link at the end of a page should be in the non-moving footer. I use page history more than edit or subscribe, so I'd like it there also. -The copyright part of the footer seems a little awkward. I think we can condense it so that there isn't whitespace between the two lines. Yes - tighter would be my preference. Beyond that - I definitely appreciate attention to updating the theme. I like the smaller text. Thanks! Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/ Ideas for improvement aside, I really like this theme - it doesn't really take any getting used to (which is good), and looks much more clean and professional than the older theme. I really hope we can have this ready in advance of Intrepid. Thanks for making this happen! -Connor -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: feedback on new wiki theme
Am 06.09.2008 um 00:00 schrieb Mackenzie Morgan: On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 14:31 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote: This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of Wordpresses past default themes :-) ). There is one usability issue with letting the content get too wide, however. For me, the content is too wide already. With the new theme I have to scroll sideways. The old theme works better in this regard. The reason is that as the lines get longer, it becomes more difficult to track which line one is reading. Correct. I'll never understand why people find it convenient to have fullscreen (text) windows on a device like 1920 pixels wide. Nevertheless, many people use fullscreen windows, screen sizes vary widely, and the most democratic solution is to avoid the insistence and use variable width rendering for web pages. Helps PDA users a lot as well. my o.o2 MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
