Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
> > I tend to side with the wiki based site for certain reasons - simple, > easy to edit and manage. But there are some features I will like to > see in our side which am not sure how a wiki based solution might work > efficiently. Example is adding events and news to the wiki. This is as easy as pie to do in Drupal. I repeat, its very scalable. For those who are trying to compare with other sites on Drupal, etc > etc, IMHO we want our site to have more content in an easy accessible > manner. For this, the current wiki system serves good, but we need > some better organizing and presentation of resources. We do not need a > flashy site with forms and what not. Lets keep things simple, easy to > manage and easy for users to find what they want. Drupal isnt about flashy forms or stuff. It isnt a framework written on Flash! Its very very neat and professional. And its way easier to use than a wiki, and it serves the purpose as well. I gave examples in my previous mail as to how many varied types of websites use Drupal. It has the power, its up to us how to tap it. Pratul -- In a world without fences & boundaries, who needs Gates and Windows? personal website - http://techjugaad.com/techbakwaas -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
On 10/17/07, Parth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For those who are trying to compare with other sites on Drupal, etc > etc, IMHO we want our site to have more content in an easy accessible > manner. For this, the current wiki system serves good, but we need > some better organizing and presentation of resources. We do not need a > flashy site with forms and what not. Lets keep things simple, easy to > manage and easy for users to find what they want. But what i cant understand is why you guys thing that managing a CMS based site will be difficult ? Most active community websites i have seen use drupal or some other non-wiki solution and it help in presenting the stuff properly. Let me take an example of www.ubuntu.com, what you guys think of ubuntu.com ? is it flashy? is it difficult to navigate ? And please go and ask ubuntu.com admins how difficult it is to manage the site ? Btw ubuntu.com runs on drupal !! I want to bring to focus the misnomer that CMS based sites are complex or difficult to manage. A badly configured wiki is equally difficult to manage. May be you guys have used mis-configured CMS sites till now and have ormed a wrong impression about CMS based sites. My experience is a CMS based site is far easier to maintain in longer run than a wiki based site, unless you have lot of admins available who are watching wiki regularly. Biggest advantage of using CMS is that a CMS provides you more control over media than a wiki. Manging files,images, audio, video etc. is far more easier on a CMS than it is on a wiki. That is why I prefer a CMS for community driven websites. Wiki is useful when content has more text than media, example wikipedia. regards VK -- The hidden harmony is better than the obvious!! -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
My Two Cents, I tend to side with the wiki based site for certain reasons - simple, easy to edit and manage. But there are some features I will like to see in our side which am not sure how a wiki based solution might work efficiently. Example is adding events and news to the wiki. I accept this will work when the activity in the wiki is pretty good and people aren't lazy enough to post things. And I think this is why a few have been asking for CMS. I wholly agree with Soumyadip on the contribution for the wiki. We have been crying for it for almost a year now and we have not seen much response other than Roshan putting up stuffs now and then. Am afraid few of us who have been writing things have become more involved with our job that we are not able to write as we used to. This is the time and opportunity for the new entrants of the Ubuntu-In community to pitch in and contribute. I see requests piling up in the mailing list and this discussing stretching for days, but what we need is people to contribute. You are most welcomed to start a wiki page for the topic you think and add content. Post the link to the list, we will have a look and edit/suggest improvements. IIRC only pages which do not require frequent alterations have been locked (and that too after spamming happened). So nobody is stopping you from opening up new pages and writing things. For those who are trying to compare with other sites on Drupal, etc etc, IMHO we want our site to have more content in an easy accessible manner. For this, the current wiki system serves good, but we need some better organizing and presentation of resources. We do not need a flashy site with forms and what not. Lets keep things simple, easy to manage and easy for users to find what they want. -- Parthan "Technofreak" [web] http://technofreak.in [irc] teKnofreak @ irc.freenode.net [mobile] MAA +919840209424 BLR +919845446647 -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
On 10/17/07, Lut4rp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IMHO we do require an overhaul, but since I have been personally > attached to Drupal for quite some time, I suggested it. And yes, there > is no point denying that starting up a Drupal site is a little > time-consuming, but then its same for every solution. > > If required I can setup a demo Drupal installation on my server, where > we might try out a new-look Ubuntu India. What do you say? Server space is not taht much of a problem and there are several guys on the mailing list who are well versed with drupal. I personally would prefer a drupal based solution than a wiki based solution for a simple reason, my experience says if you apply patches to drupal site and adhere to drupal.org warning maintaining a drupal powered site is a breeze. Where as wiki has more cleanup work required because there is little control you can excercise over content going into wiki. Also, with workflow setup properly you can havea powerful collaborative content development in place. regards VK -- The hidden harmony is better than the obvious!! -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
> Is drupal.org not a community site? Is spreadfirefox.com not a community site > ? There are > plethora of examples where community websites are running on a CMS > based solution. Thats not all, the MTV UK website, the NASA Jobs website and Lifestyle TV website are also on Drupal. Drupal is an excellent framework for building highly scalable websites (read: personal to massive). If Mir Nazim is on the list, Mir, I remember you once suggested re-design using Drupal? > One major reason for this is horrible navigation on the website. It > was during discussion with Pratul that we realized the depth of > content on the site and non-navigatability of the site. You are lucky > if users stayed for minute and half. I normally would leave in half a > minute. > Bad navigation was more of an impetus than look and feel, for me to > propose this redesign. Yeah, this was the MAJOR point of the discussion. All major wiki's I have seen have nice navigation. One of my all time favorites: The OSx86 project wiki (wiki.osx86project.org) One visit, and you have all the info you require in one-look on the index page itself. IMHO we do require an overhaul, but since I have been personally attached to Drupal for quite some time, I suggested it. And yes, there is no point denying that starting up a Drupal site is a little time-consuming, but then its same for every solution. If required I can setup a demo Drupal installation on my server, where we might try out a new-look Ubuntu India. What do you say? Pratul -- In a world without fences & boundaries, who needs Gates and Windows? personal website - http://techjugaad.com/techbakwaas -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
On 10/17/07, Soumyadip Modak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Regarding Pratul's suggestion of using Drupal, the problem (IMHO) of > using CMS solutions like Drupal and Joomla is that it leads to a lot > of administrative hassles. Suppose I create a page. Someone wants to > make some modifications that I do not like. Can/Should that person be > restricted? What sort of control do we exercise over content, and what > sort of priviledges we give to a creator, a contributor, a member who > has registered, etc. If we think carefully, Drupal (or any CMS) is > (again IMHO) not the correct solution for a community site, where you > encourage people to sign-up and contribute. CMS software are mainly > for company or organisation websites, where you give out information > about yourself/your company/your organisation, but you do not expect > the community to be the primary contributors. Ubuntu-in lives due to > the community contribution, which necessarily points to a wiki based Well you are deadly mistaken here. Lack of understanding about CMS as well as community site, is visible in your reply. Is drupal.org not a community site? Is spreadfirefox.com not a community site ? There are plethora of examples where community websites are running on a CMS based solution. The idea, of only Corporates needing a CMS is nothing but b***s***t. As for editing right, dear there is a thing called editing rights. You can allow any user to create content but only allow one or two (or a group) to publish articles on the web. This is a tried and tested setup and it works. > solution. In fact some of the categorisation in the > http://www.ubuntu-in.org/wiki/Web2007 page is frankly amusing. FAQ is > supposedly a static page, pray why? Is it something set in stone? Why > should newbie users and developers sections be static? Shouldn't we be > encouraging them to contribute back? How different will they be from > Documentation and Tutorials that they merit a non-wiki infrastructure? > Is the Team set in stone? Don't we have new people being added there? > If I remeber correctly, when we started, all the sections had only two > names. Only Gora was the third IRC ops and Barkha the third mailing > list admin. Well if you feel some segment is not static please feel free to make changes in the wiki . What is stopping you ? Instead of writing a long email please feel free to make changes. Btw I did not mention any page as static. I mentioned "non-wiki" and by no means non-wiki means static. It simply means not every tom, dick harry could edit the page. By no means sections under non-wiki are non-modifyable. They are less volatile i.e the content is not going to change so often and new content addition (or editing of old content) will require some kind of approval. > > Vivek Khurana wrote > >Why not start writing a collaborative book on the ubuntu India > >website ? Any takers ? > > Shouldn't our primary goal be to contribute more content to the > Ubuntu-in site rather than write a book about the site itself? There Hola, who said we are writing a book about site ? We are writing a book on one or other aspect of ubuntu. Book is a form of documentation with possibility of having paper prints in future. Careful reading of email is recommended before giving a stock answer. > is hardly any effort to create meaningful content on the wiki itself, > why do we have to waste our energy pursuing other goals? Going through > the statistics from Google Analytics, I find that of the 11000+ page > hits we have on ubuntu-in.org every month, more than 30% goes to the > page I created on SATA RAID way back when Dapper was released (around > 4000). The sad fact, the bounce rate is 82%, which means that > percentage of people visit just one page and leave, within about a > minute and a half. One major reason for this is horrible navigation on the website. It was during discussion with Pratul that we realized the depth of content on the site and non-navigatability of the site. You are lucky if users stayed for minute and half. I normally would leave in half a minute. Bad navigation was more of an impetus than look and feel, for me to propose this redesign. > > Nan budh, you are talking about Newbie sections, go ahead, the wiki is > there, create a section, contribute content. Can I consider you as the > contact point for the creation and development of the Newbie section, > please? Can't someone contribute articles on setting up a home server, > a firewall box, a media center, etc. with Ubuntu? Even articles that > deal with common system administration work that people need to do > regularly? Simple answer engage more people as contributors than as email readers. > > Why don't we see articles on properly enabling Indian language > desktops (there are issues with input methods, especially SCIM, which > is Ubuntu's default, and OpenOffice.org)? Why don't we see articles on > programming? Article
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I fail to see how locked-down pages cannot be considered to be static pages. If I'm not mistaken, the home page of ubuntu-in.org is a locked-down page, which means it effectively is a static page. Having a separate non-wiki section would be a complete waste of time. Regarding Pratul's suggestion of using Drupal, the problem (IMHO) of using CMS solutions like Drupal and Joomla is that it leads to a lot of administrative hassles. Suppose I create a page. Someone wants to make some modifications that I do not like. Can/Should that person be restricted? What sort of control do we exercise over content, and what sort of priviledges we give to a creator, a contributor, a member who has registered, etc. If we think carefully, Drupal (or any CMS) is (again IMHO) not the correct solution for a community site, where you encourage people to sign-up and contribute. CMS software are mainly for company or organisation websites, where you give out information about yourself/your company/your organisation, but you do not expect the community to be the primary contributors. Ubuntu-in lives due to the community contribution, which necessarily points to a wiki based solution. In fact some of the categorisation in the http://www.ubuntu-in.org/wiki/Web2007 page is frankly amusing. FAQ is supposedly a static page, pray why? Is it something set in stone? Why should newbie users and developers sections be static? Shouldn't we be encouraging them to contribute back? How different will they be from Documentation and Tutorials that they merit a non-wiki infrastructure? Is the Team set in stone? Don't we have new people being added there? If I remeber correctly, when we started, all the sections had only two names. Only Gora was the third IRC ops and Barkha the third mailing list admin. Vivek Khurana wrote >Why not start writing a collaborative book on the ubuntu India >website ? Any takers ? Shouldn't our primary goal be to contribute more content to the Ubuntu-in site rather than write a book about the site itself? There is hardly any effort to create meaningful content on the wiki itself, why do we have to waste our energy pursuing other goals? Going through the statistics from Google Analytics, I find that of the 11000+ page hits we have on ubuntu-in.org every month, more than 30% goes to the page I created on SATA RAID way back when Dapper was released (around 4000). The sad fact, the bounce rate is 82%, which means that percentage of people visit just one page and leave, within about a minute and a half. Nan budh, you are talking about Newbie sections, go ahead, the wiki is there, create a section, contribute content. Can I consider you as the contact point for the creation and development of the Newbie section, please? Can't someone contribute articles on setting up a home server, a firewall box, a media center, etc. with Ubuntu? Even articles that deal with common system administration work that people need to do regularly? Why don't we see articles on properly enabling Indian language desktops (there are issues with input methods, especially SCIM, which is Ubuntu's default, and OpenOffice.org)? Why don't we see articles on programming? Articles that talk of setting up the perfect Python development box, with IDEs, nifty libraries, etc., using as much software from the Ubuntu repositories as possible? The perfect Java Web (and even Desktop) Development workbench? PHP? Ruby? A page on "10 cool things you can do with Bash, sed and awk"? Making your Ubuntu desktop look like MacOSX or Windows (yes, there are people who would read that)? How about a page on the games available in Ubuntu, howto organise a lanparty using Ubuntu and OpenArena? Creating Free maps for OpenArena/Nexuiz/Tremulous? There, I hope I have thrown up enough ideas for people to chew on and start working upon. Crack your knuckles guys and gals. For Events, can we use this plug-in: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Calendar_(Barrylb) ? Maybe there would be problems with the MediaWiki version, which I admit we website/server admins have been too lazy to upgrade. G0SUB, your inputs on this? Sorry for ranting, but I feel there is way too much talk and not enough work. Maybe that's symptomatic, seeing the experience of the FOSS.in organisers. I certainly feel proud when I see how The Team page has grown to include new people, and I see people being involved. I am proud of the people who have organised the Debian-Ubuntu Project day at FOSS.in, and will undoubtedly make it a success there. But somewhere, there is a slip between the cup and the lip. We have hardly been able to recruit people who would start contributing back to the community, in terms of code, documentation, etc. which does make me feel sad. Those who I have mentioned by name, please do not take this personally. Vivek and Pratul, you have been exceptional in making the forum see the light of the day. Nan budh, thanks for being the gadfly and
Re: [ubuntu-in] building gtk+-2.12.0 on ubuntu 6.06 - IceConnectionNumber and XOpenDisplay
2007/10/10, Yang Xiaofeng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > try install libX11 development packages using synaptic > or using command line(ubuntu 7.04): > sudo apt-get install libx11-dev > The package already exists, but I still get this problem. Do I have to set an include path. That would be surprising, since libx11-dev was installed already, I did nothing to install it on the stock 6.06. -- Can't see Hindi? http://devanaagarii.net -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
Hi, On 10/16/07, Vivek Khurana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wiki or non-wiki is something you guys have to suggest. What is the > general opinion ? Do we need a wiki ? Non-wiki or a mix of wiki and > non-wiki. I am personally in favour of of a mix solution. A non-wiki > for not so volatile sections like Documents, event posting etc. and a > wiki for sections like tutorials, projects etc. Yes the wiki and I vote for complete wiki based site. Its easier for maintanence than having a partial wiki and partial non-wiki. I think, the Ubuntu-India Site redesign should be on re-working the theme of the site rather than only restructuring the content. One could have a look at other LoCo sites for ideas. One other thing that I would suggest is to stick with the current MediaWiki. Moving the wiki from MediaWiki engine to another would lead to several other unnecesary re doings. (*Just my two euros*) Please upload a nice site theme somewhere and send the link to the list from where we could make refinements and take it further. Feel free to argue/contradict/ appreciate :-) my PoV!! Regards, -- Aanjhan -- a.k.a Tuxmaniac Locations: #ubuntu-in, #linux-india, #gnu-india @irc.freenode.net CyberHome: http://www.tuxmaniac.com -- -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
I suggest we shift to Drupal CMS, its a great community solution Pratul -- In a world without fences & boundaries, who needs Gates and Windows? personal website - http://techjugaad.com/techbakwaas -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
Friends, A few words on showing a learning path to a new ubuntu developer. First: For a person outside the computer field, sheer volume of things to be learned is overwhelming and one feels lost. It would be very helpful if one is told in the very beginning that to achieve xyz you would need to know at least "abc" and "def" things well and that here are a few helpful tutes on these topics. Second(this is aimed at creating a strong developer community): Leaving out some good engineering colleges, there are tens of engineering colleges all across punjab (i assume the situation is no different in other states) in which there are no good teachers and students learn almost on their own. Linux is badly taught and badly represented. For these students(mind you they are in lakhs) if we were to provide a one stop budding developer section it would not only be according to the ubuntu philosophy but would also help widen ubuntu community and help the operating system evolve. regards nanbudh - Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. Click here.-- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
Bhavani Shankar R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can do the book work.. Since I am still a student I have some free time.. Any supporters? Bhavani Shankar. -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in You guys took the words right out of my mouth. Ubuntu book is a good idea. i would do my bit. i am not at experienced ubuntu user but whatever i can, i shall do. nanbudh - - Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Click here-- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] ubuntu India website redesign
On 10/16/07, Parth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wiki :: Non-wiki all have to part of the ubuntu-in site from outside. > Non-wiki parts are just some Pages in the web-site which is otherwise > wiki based. Is this possible ? > Here is the wiki page I have created where I am structuring the discussion on the the mailing list. http://www.ubuntu-in.org/wiki/Web2007 You can see I have marked the sections as wiki or non-wiki in the above page. One thing we need to discuss for non-wiki portions, do we need a CMS based solution or static HTML pages. reagrds VK -- The hidden harmony is better than the obvious!! -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
