Re: [Ubuntu-l10n-eng] Trash/Wastebasket/Deleted Items
Honestly, I don't see why this needs to be translated. Trash is understandable by everyone, and though it is not true British English, it is not necessarily glaringly American in the way that an untranslated string of "favorite" might be. the fact is the alternatives to "Trash" aren't very good. No one actually says wastebin or wastebasket anymore, so those options are as bad as "trash", in the sense that they are not a locally used term either. We all know that what people say is "Rubbish Bin" or "Bin" but that is a poor choice because "bin" is often used for folders on Linux systems (e.g. /usr/bin), and we don't want to encourage people to start emptying their /usr/bin folder. "Deleted Items" breaks the metaphor existing in the user interface and renders the icons useless. It also doubles the amount of necessary work as "delete" has to be changed to "permanently delete". The other advantage of "Trash" is that this is the actual name of the folder as the system sees it (i.e. "trash://" and ".Trash"), so it helps users when they seek support, particularly on ubuntuforums.org, and makes it easier for users to guess what the ".Trash" folder is should they discover it. I also agree, however, that co-operation with upstream is the best way to go on this, and seeing as how we already have a mess of different terms being used, it might be best for now to stick with upstream's choice of Wastebasket. Just my tuppence worth, Tom 2009/10/20 Sridhar Dhanapalan > 2009/10/20 Sridhar Dhanapalan : > > The problem is that it every really caught on, and instead of > > harmonising everything we just made it worse by adding another synonym > > for the rubbish bin. > > erm, I had meant to say, "it never really caught on". > > Sridhar > > > -- > Bring choice back to your computer. > http://www.linux.org.au/linux > > -- > Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list > Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation > -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense
I think Joachim has summed up the problem pretty well in this one sentence: "In changing the 'Trash/Delete' concept to 'Delete/Permanently Delete' you're not translating the interface, you are redesigning it, and that isn't your job." The attached icon is a Dustbin, a Wastebasket, heck you could probably find an English-speaker who would call it Trash. But it is definitely NOT a "Deleted Items". ** Attachment added: "Ceci n'est pas une Wastebasket" http://librarian.launchpad.net/5423318/gnome-dev-trash-empty.svg -- "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense
I really have three main issues with "Deleted Items". 1. It's a bit long and cumbersome (not the end of the world). 2. It's an oxymoron. You can't have a folder of Deleted Items. 3. Attached is the pop-up for when you press shift-delete (to delete a file, rather than move it to the Wastebasket as was). As is correct, the window points out that "If you delete an item, it is permanently lost". This doesn't make any sense when the Wastebasket is called "Deleted Items". So currently the user has two ways to remove a file. They can delete it to the "Deleted Items folder" or they can delete it. Confused yet? Exactly. Wastebasket/Trash wasn't perfect, but at least it kept a distinction between simply moving the file and permanently erasing it. I've looked through the mailing list archives, and it seems this change was decided on a poll of 18 people (14 voting for "Deleted Items"). Hardly an impressive sample size, and only translators could vote not users. What's more I couldn't find the reasoning behind a change being needed at all. It's all very well getting bogged down in "but technically it's not a bin it's a folder" because then you you could just rename "file" to "Collection of Binary" and folder to "Collection of collections of binary". Real life metaphors work, that's why they've always been used. I was amazed to see one person suggest it should be changed to "Deleted Items folder" because they never said "Wastebasket" in real life. I wonder how often they say "Deleted Items" in real life? Finally, having done a quick search, how many bugs do you reckon are filed against the use of the name Wastebasket? You guessed it, none. It wasn't broken, so why was it "fixed"? ** Attachment added: ""If you delete an item, it is permanently lost"" http://librarian.launchpad.net/5361014/delete_means_gone.png -- "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense
I have read the list, as I said above... "I've looked through the mailing list archives, and it seems this change was decided on a poll of 18 people (14 voting for "Deleted Items"). Hardly an impressive sample size, and only translators could vote not users. What's more I couldn't find the reasoning behind a change being needed at all." Bugs go on a bugtracker. If I recall correctly this is all forwarded to the list anyway. -- "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense
P.S. How about "Dustbin"? -- "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense
I can't work out Rosetta so I'll leave someone else to do it. According to the UK translation team "Deleted Items" is the preferred nomenclature (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation/WordSubstitution), however I don't think it is suitable. For a start, it loses the real-world metaphor, and is too long and cumbersome. I can understand objections to "Trash", but "Wastebasket" seems perfect to my mind, and is consistent with previous Ubuntu releases. I also retains the original meaning of "Trash" which "Deleted Items" does not. "Waste Bin" could also work. -- "Deleted items folder" name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
