[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
I think Joachim has summed up the problem pretty well in this one sentence: In changing the 'Trash/Delete' concept to 'Delete/Permanently Delete' you're not translating the interface, you are redesigning it, and that isn't your job. The attached icon is a Dustbin, a Wastebasket, heck you could probably find an English-speaker who would call it Trash. But it is definitely NOT a Deleted Items. ** Attachment added: Ceci n'est pas une Wastebasket http://librarian.launchpad.net/5423318/gnome-dev-trash-empty.svg -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
Joachim Noreiko wrote: I find mailing list archives near-impossible to read. It is the preferred means of communication for our Team, and Team members are expected to be subscribed to it. You may feel more comfortable interacting with the list through Gmane [1]. Note that some of our older messages may not have been imported into the Gmane archive. I've made my point as clearly as I can: Deleted items causes the Trash interface to make no sense. I don't see what reasons can trump that. If you don't read the list, how can you expect to be informed of the issues or reasons? We work as a team, and important decisions are discussed on the list. We clearly state this on our Web pages. Important changes should not be decided upon unilaterally. Bruce Cowan wrote: I ran a forum poll about this issue [0], again not very scientific, but this is a larger sample size at least. The original Team poll was more of an exercise than anything definitive. The majority of the Team members taking part in the discussion had already voted in favour of the change. Also, sample size is not everything. The Team members were actively (or at least passively) taking part in the discussion, and hence were aware of all of the issues involved and also of the mission of the Ubuntu-l10n-En-GB effort. Also, most Team members have been tested for their knowledge and skill in the language and have agreed with the principles of the project. Whether this outweighs the votes of an uninformed crowd is another matter, and I'll leave that decision up to you. One thing we did agree upon after making this change is that we need better communication with upstream projects, and we have been forging closer relationships with groups like GNOME-UK and KDE-En-GB. The main way in which we differ is that we are at present a Commonwealth translation project, and are not strictly British. This is part of a longer-term plan to eventually have regional variations[2]. There is some inconsistency amongst KDE, GNOME and other projects, so the notion that we altered a single en_GB standard is a fallacy. KDE uses 'wastebin', GNOME uses 'wastebasket', and some applications use 'deleted items'. Instead of creating yet another standard, we chose to adopt an existing one. Ideally, projects upstream should agree upon a single title. In the meanwhile we should provide a degree of consistency with what we already have, rather than inventing something entirely new. The supposed desktop metaphor is a weak one these days. Software is not restricted to the limited capabilities of an office desk. Users are aware of what it means to 'delete' a file, and most people don't talk about placing a digital file in a rubbish receptacle. Issues such as these, amongst many others, were raised in the discussion on the ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list. Note once again that I have closed this report. It was a conscious decision and is not a bug. [1] http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.translators.en [2] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.translators.en/529 -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
Sorry -- I mean I've fixed the Deleted items translation to Wastebasket throughout. I don't have the access rights to upload them back to rosetta. Here's the one for gnome-applets. ** Attachment added: PO file for gnome-applets http://librarian.launchpad.net/5350613/gnome-applets-en_GB.po -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
I can't work out Rosetta so I'll leave someone else to do it. According to the UK translation team Deleted Items is the preferred nomenclature (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation/WordSubstitution), however I don't think it is suitable. For a start, it loses the real-world metaphor, and is too long and cumbersome. I can understand objections to Trash, but Wastebasket seems perfect to my mind, and is consistent with previous Ubuntu releases. I also retains the original meaning of Trash which Deleted Items does not. Waste Bin could also work. -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
Re: [Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
On 11/12/06, Roger Light [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd agree that Deleted items folder isn't the best solution, especially in the example given, but on the other hand as someone who lives in England I'm pretty certain that I've never once said wastebasket. In my opinion the correct term should be Rubbish bin. Perhaps bin at best, but as I have previously covered the metaphor is stale and should be dumped. -- Ben Goodger #391382 - Mi admiras religiajn; ili estas fine ebliĝinta solvi la maljunegan demandon kiel oni povas vivi sencerbe?. It is well-known that I am blunt and unsophisticated. It's largely your fault if you object to this. -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] [Bug 72304] Re: Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense
I'm not hugely bothered what it's changed *to* -- I picked 'Wastebasket' because it's what Macs used to use before OS X. 'Deleted Items folder' is wordy and cumbersome, but the worst problem with it is that it completely breaks the trash metaphor: objects in the trash are not deleted, they are in the trash. You delete something by emptying the trash. Using 'Deleted Items folder' forces you to set up 'delete' and 'permanently delete' as terms for two very different things, which is confusing. -- Deleted items folder name doesn't make sense https://launchpad.net/bugs/72304 -- Ubuntu-l10n-eng mailing list Ubuntu-l10n-eng@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-l10n-eng https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
