Re: Postinsts barfing when mysqld not running
On ma, 2007-08-20 at 12:48 -0400, Barry deFreese wrote: I suppose another option would be to prompt the user for 1. Connect to remote db 2. Use local db 3. Leave unconfigured but that just means more prompting that we don't like, no? Isn't dbconfig-common meant to handle this? -- Dennis K. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Refining MOTU Mentoring
Hello everybody, I thought some more about the topic after various discussions with people. In my opinion mentoring as in one-on-one time is a highly valuable effort. When trying to define the purpose and role of mentors we should try to make sure that these highly valuable efforts are not in vain or not as straight-forward as they could be. Some things we would generally like to see happening: * Contributors should use the 'official sponsoring process' as soon as possible. * Contributors should ask their questions on the mentoring list, in QA sessions, or in the MOTU channel. * We should aim to factor the answers to questions into MOTU documentation or link them in more prominent places. We should aim to have a documentation QA process. Things we know already: * Learning packaging takes time and a lot of trial and error. Having said that, we should try to find out how to make best use of the one-on-one time mentors can offer to their assigned contributors. In my opinion the time is best spent to make new contributors comfortable with the processes, people and some tools. The general review and QA we should be done by the complete MOTU team for a couple of reasons: * New contributors get to know a lot of different people - that's important. * New contributors get more input from various people. * We are able to process much more contributors as a team. With these efforts new contributors should also spend less time in the mentoring slots. I'd appreciate your input on this. Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: new Transmission release
Hello Georges, Am Freitag, den 10.08.2007, 05:08 +0200 schrieb Georges Discry: The latest version of Transmission (a lightweight BitTorrent client) has just been released a few days ago and I would really like to see this one included Gutsy. please file a bug report at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+filebug and tag it as 'upgrade'. Be prepared that it might have to through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9c768217b322f8567d24d91647eaf0a256a73046 Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: New wxPython Release
Hello Robin, Am Donnerstag, den 09.08.2007, 08:50 -0700 schrieb Robin Dunn: I just wanted to let you guys know about the new wxPython/wxWidgets release, version 2.8.4.2, in hopes that it will be able to be included with Gutsy. I spent a lot of time updating the debian/rules and other control files to try to bring it more in line with standards and also some of the changes that you've made with the MOTU version of the packages. Some of the relevant changes are: please file a bug report at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/+filebug - please also tag it as 'upgrade', add the link to the package and subscribe 'ubuntu-universe-sponsors' to it. Be prepared that it might have to through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9c768217b322f8567d24d91647eaf0a256a73046 Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: QA Sessions
Hello Andy, thanks for bringing this up. Am Mittwoch, den 25.07.2007, 16:47 +0100 schrieb Andy Price: I thought I'd bring some attention to it because the next ones are very soon and I think the previous ones drifted past silently. Perhaps some announcement/advertising/blogging is in order if we're going to make them useful for recruitment. What do you all think about having another set of sessions on Friday 0:00 and 12:00 UTC? I'm happy to be in the 12:00 UTC sessions and happy to blog about them too. I think it'd be good to invite all the contributors that are being mentored to ask all their questions and everybody else who always wanted to get involved in the process. Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: Refining MOTU Mentoring
On 8/21/07, Daniel Holbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought some more about the topic after various discussions with people. ... Some things we would generally like to see happening: * Contributors should use the 'official sponsoring process' as soon as possible. Should Contributors ever not use the 'official sponsoring process'? I've yet to encounter a Contributor, whether with a mentor or without, that was willing to follow the process, especially where their mentor was otherwise occupied (or did not have access, in the case of patches for main) (although there is certainly frustration when there are significant delays in uploads). ... In my opinion the time is best spent to make new contributors comfortable with the processes, people and some tools. The general review and QA we should be done by the complete MOTU team for a couple of reasons: * New contributors get to know a lot of different people - that's important. * New contributors get more input from various people. * We are able to process much more contributors as a team. I'd like to strongly encourage all of the above, and also note that the greater visibility from team interaction additinally provides the following benefits: * Contributors have an easier time demonstrating packaging skills * Sponsors can benefit from team review when there are questions * Contributors demonstrate effective community participation With these efforts new contributors should also spend less time in the mentoring slots. Is this a goal? I can see two different purposes of mentoring, and I'm not sure which is the consensus understanding from the above. In one case, the mentor coordinates with the newcomer, helping them to become a Contributor, actively engaged in the development process. In the other case, the mentor coordinates with either a newcomer or Contributor, and helps them to become a MOTU, responsible for driving the development of universe and multiverse. If the goal is the first, I think that in most cases, a motivated newcomer can become a valuable Contributor within a fairly short period of time, but I'm not sure the process to become MOTU can happen as quickly. I've had private discussions with a few Contributors, helping to develop a plan towards becoming MOTU (in terms of balancing demonstrating technical skills, community involvement, and demonstration of development goals; combined with persistance and demonstration of committment), and I have the impression that many Contributors do not know either how to progress towards MOTU, nor what activities will be considered helpful by the existing community. Personally, I believe that both newcomer - Contributor and Contributor - MOTU are areas where personal involvement from a MOTU can be assistive, beyond the typical information availably on the wiki, via IRC, or on the mailing list. In the first case, because the volume of information is daunting, and the quality extremely variable. In the second case because there is no (and perhaps cannot be) any documentation on the specific criteria by which the prospective is judged. Perhaps mentors could volunteer to assist with either of these transitions (or split slots between them). This would allow for faster turnover of slots, as the Contributor often does not need as much personal attention once basic patching and packaging has been mastered, but before they are ready for application to MOTU. -- Emmet HIKORY -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: QA Sessions
On Tuesday 21 August 2007 05:21, Daniel Holbach wrote: Hello Andy, thanks for bringing this up. Am Mittwoch, den 25.07.2007, 16:47 +0100 schrieb Andy Price: I thought I'd bring some attention to it because the next ones are very soon and I think the previous ones drifted past silently. Perhaps some announcement/advertising/blogging is in order if we're going to make them useful for recruitment. What do you all think about having another set of sessions on Friday 0:00 and 12:00 UTC? I'm happy to be in the 12:00 UTC sessions and happy to blog about them too. I think it'd be good to invite all the contributors that are being mentored to ask all their questions and everybody else who always wanted to get involved in the process. I thought we cancelled these due to lack of participation at one of the recent MOTU meetings. Do I remember right? Scott K -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: QA Sessions
Am Dienstag, den 21.08.2007, 09:01 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman: I thought we cancelled these due to lack of participation at one of the recent MOTU meetings. Do I remember right? I'm happy to run the one on Friday 12:00 UTC. Have a nice day, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: Refining MOTU Mentoring
Nicolas Robin wrote: Maybe this Idea should be applied for an official classroom channel, specially designed for new contributors to be helped by MOTUs ? It is the best way to progress, to be in touch with many MOTUs and to be free to ask all the questions you want. I thought this is what #ubuntu-motu was for? Since we started the MOTU mentoring process it has seemed to me that there are fewer people willing to ask questions on #ubuntu-motu. I am increasingly PM'ed with packaging questions. NOTE: I don't have statistics, this is my impression. I'm curious from those who are mentoring if they see near-term progress towards being a MOTU from their charges? It appears to me that people who don't have a mentor are being demotivated and thinking they can't participate. At least I see less activity from new hopefuls on #ubuntu-motu. Now this may have all been picked up by the mentors list and so I'm off base, but my impression is that since we've had a formal mentors program there has been a lot less activity from new people that is visible to the community. I'm not sure what the right answer is here, but the fact that people are saying they need a place to be free to ask all the questions you want indicates a significant problem in my opinion. We already have such a place, #ubuntu-motu and if it's not recognized as such, we need to fix that. Scott K -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: Refining MOTU Mentoring
On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 10:07 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: I thought this is what #ubuntu-motu was for? I thought for a long time if it was correct to publish the following snippet. I believe however that it is important to share with you some considerations I received from a disappointed contributor, on this very subject: Namely i had been several times at irc and asked some questions about several things (and heck there are a lot things i don´t know nor understand) but at best i got only very limited (if at all) answers. Everybody just seems to be too busy. And then continues: To me it felt that i am just in the way and the opposite of being helpful. It makes you think (at least it does for me). On the positive side I should also add that my personal experience is totally the opposite, whenever I asked a question (no matter how silly) I almost always got the answer (the same is valid for #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-bugs by the way). We have a lot of contributors in this list, and I think it is the right time for them to speak up and share their thoughts. We need you guys, and we need to know if what we do is valid or not. PLEASE ADD YOUR VOICE! Cesare SATELLITES: They are in SPACE and stay there by going so fast that they are never in one place enough to fall down. TELEVISIONS are bounced off them. They are part of SCIENCE. -- From A Scientific Encyclopedia for the Enquiring Young Nome by Angalo de Haberdasheri (Terry Pratchett, Wings) -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Files added to a package? Patches or files in debian/?
Is there a consensus on what to do when you are adding files to a package? I am thinking for example on a situation where I am authoring a complete autotools system to a software package, and upstream is, say, dead or unresponsive ;-) Of course, I can add these as patches against /dev/null, but that honestly seems a bit awkward. An alternative is to put the files in debian/ and let debian/rules move them to their proper place in the directory tree. What say you, oh MOTUs? Cheers, Morten aka mok0 -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: Files added to a package? Patches or files in debian/?
On Tuesday 21 August 2007 14:23, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: Is there a consensus on what to do when you are adding files to a package? I am thinking for example on a situation where I am authoring a complete autotools system to a software package, and upstream is, say, dead or unresponsive ;-) Of course, I can add these as patches against /dev/null, but that honestly seems a bit awkward. An alternative is to put the files in debian/ and let debian/rules move them to their proper place in the directory tree. What say you, oh MOTUs? Cheers, Morten aka mok0 One other alternative would be for you to make yourself the new upstream for the packages and do a proper release. Scott K -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
retiring from MOTU Council
Hi folks, (CC-ing technical-board and community-council, as I'm not sure which board will need to take the next steps here) It has been both a great pleasure and honour to be a member of MOTU Council. However, as I've started working this year, I'm sad that I don't have the time for this position any longer. Hence, I'm stepping back. During the recent months, I've sadly not found really much time to do Ubuntu related stuff, and actually I've only been answering application mails on the MC mailing list. I believe, that there are plentiful possible successors for me in the MOTU team, who could do a much better job then I can, and thus I'm not too unhappy to pass on this position. People who come to my mind right now are ScottK or Hobbsee, who have been a great help for me coming to a decision with their follow-ups on applications. Of course there many others as well. So my question is now, what steps will have to be taken next, until the position will be filled again? P.S.: I'll not be lost for ubuntu development, so I will of course continue with the MC duties until a successor is found. Finally I hope that I'll then be able to work on some technical bits again. Cheers, Stefan. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: Refining MOTU Mentoring
We have a lot of contributors in this list, and I think it is the right time for them to speak up and share their thoughts. We need you guys, and we need to know if what we do is valid or not. PLEASE ADD YOUR VOICE! As a new contributor, let me add a few comments, then. As it has been pointed out by others, the reviewing process can be quite frustrating. It is not the meticulous requirements to the packages, which I find rational and easy to understand, but rather the haphazard way you have to find reviewers. When asking how to get your package reviewed, the standard reply is try asking on irc. I have done that, of course, but I estimate the success rate to be only around 10%. For busy professionals, it can be quite difficult to spend time hanging out on irc. Often, the changes you are required to make are only 20 minutes of work or less, but then you have to go through the motion of finding a reviewer again, and so on. The cycle time for getting a package sponsored is weeks and months, and 99.9% of the time is spent waiting.To be honest, it makes progress too slow, and you have to be very persistent and committed not to become discouraged. From the viewpoint of the contributor, it would be nice to know that someone takes on the responsibility of working with you on a regular basis. For example, on REVU, the MOTUs could sign on for a particular package and follow it along until it is ready to get sponsor #2. Each package should have a special flag on the web page showing that the package is actively being reviewed. Another flag should show that the package has been reviewed and is waiting for another contributor upload. Communication between MOTU and contributor should take place on the REVU webpage, so others can follow the discussion and learn. These few modifications to the process would improve the productivity of our community and help keeping us hopefuls motivated. Cheers, Morten -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
