Re: Workshops for Trusty

[Barry Drake]

On 23/10/13 21:15, Nicholas Skaggs wrote:
Barry I think adding your input and insights to this page would be 
wonderful:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/DevelopmentInstall
A subpage works too if it gets too long. Take a crack at it!


Ok - it's up there.  I'll be happy to alter it if there are any 
problems.  Thanks for your encouragement.


Regards,Barry

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Re: New member

[Nicholas Skaggs]

We <3 automated tests!

Wonderful to hear from you Richard. We would love help on any of the 
automated test projects we have going on. There is some really cool work 
going on. Do check out the test writer page:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/TestWriter

The official documentation for autopilot including tutorial is here: 
http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/. There's a quick tutorial for a qml 
app too: 
http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/quality/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/.
Finally, there's a video as well of writing tests for a couple of qml 
apps -- it's quite long, but covers everything from checking out the 
code to submitting the merge :-): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_e_xqlBbg


Mostly, I would encourage you to pick a test or project to contribute to 
and dive in! Ask questions and we'll help. Getting your first merge 
proposal in is a wonderful feeling, and we're happy to help you do so. 
Feel free to show up on IRC at get realtime help as well. We're in 
#ubuntu-quality on freenode.


http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-quality

Thanks for wanting to help and welcome!

Nicholas

On 10/25/2013 12:35 PM, Richard Hsu wrote:

Hello All,

My name is Richard Hsu. I reside in Toronto, Canada and work for a US 
financial services company.


Day job: Troubleshoot in-house applications and provide support to 
users. Technologies: Sybase, Ab Initio (ETL tool), Ksh, Perl, Autosys 
all on Red Hat Linux and C# desktop app on Windows.


Past: Visual Basic 6 and C# (Windows Forms and ASP.NET 
) programmer with Microsoft Sql Server and Access 
databases.


Personal 5 year project: python programming, switch home systems to 
Mac OS X or Ubuntu (currently on Windows dual boot occasionally into 
Ubuntu).


Why join Ubuntu QA?
I have benefitted from others on the internet so decided to give back. 
I believe Ubuntu has a bright future and want to help make it better. 
Will start contributing with automated tests and take it from there.


-- Richard.




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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[JM]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 18:59:08 +0400
"Ali Linx (amjjawad)"  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Julien Olivier  wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
> > dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.


> Hi Julien,
> 
> Thanks for your reply :)
> 
> AFAIK, Ubuntu, and all the other official flavours, have their website in
> English Language and same goes to the Official Wiki Pages :)
> For the last 3 years, I have never seen an official website nor a Wiki Page
> in different Language


Hi,

The French speaking community has a very wide website with a wiki providing a 
very rich
documentation regularly updated by a team running a dedicated mailing list and 
an
IRC channel, a large forum, and a planet:
http://ubuntu-fr.org/

(providing information to people from about 250 countries where French is 
spoken)


> Examples:
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

Download:
http://ubuntu-fr.org/telechargement


> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME

Download the French Edition (built from the official version):
http://ubuntu-fr.org/telechargement?variante=ubuntufr#


> Just to be extra clear, my suggestion was plain and simple and it is up to
> the community to decide:

(…)

> I fail to see why we should do a video in all the languages? the websites
> and the wiki area all using English Language :)

For the simple reason that many users (from any country) just don't speak 
English at all.
Some of them speak a little English, let's say from 10 words to a few current 
sentences
and some who are a little better in English simply don't find it very 
comfortable to deal
with, be it written language or videos. 


> Forget the video if you don't want to explain to the users how to install
> the system. But please, understand many users may really fail to install
> the system no matter how many HOWTOs are written on google.

This is why paid services do exist, as well as machines ready for use with the 
system. :)


> So far, I have never received any complaint about that. I mean, Ubuntu
> GNOME specific. Once my voice is back to normal, I am going to create a
> video for HOWTO Install Ubuntu GNOME. You will find it on my Channel if you
> are interested.

All additional contributions are a good thing, be they available for part of 
the people
or for all the people.
http://www.naute.com/inspiration/starfish.phtml

"Made a difference to THAT one!"  (^_^)

Regards,
Mélodie

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For god's sake, touchscreens should work out of the box

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

I took a 6-year old computer with a builtin touchscreen (not a notebook) 
that had Ubuntu 7.10 installed on it, and it had the touchscreen 
working, though I guess it had needed some work to set it up correctly.


I installed 12.04 LTS on it, wiping out the old installation. The 
touchscreen didn't work out of the box. It definitely should. It's 
absurd that on a machine that has a touchscreen for which support has 
been available for 6 years, the touchscreen is not enabled by default 
and working just out of the box.


Additionally, I followed literally step-by-step the guide at 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touchscreen to configure the touch screen (it is 
a shame that one has to do all that stuff manually in the first place), 
and I ended up with a machine that won't boot.


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Re: Introduction

[Nicholas Skaggs]

Welcome Jack!

You've already got a 14.04 install, so as you say, you are ready to go. 
Have a look at the roles page if you haven't to see what all you can do 
during the cycle.


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/Tester

For this cycle I am encouraging everyone on the team to install and run 
trusty all cycle long as there primary machine. Do exploratory testing, 
file and follow-up on bugs, etc.


All fun and exciting stuff! Looking forward to having you on the team.

Thanks for making ubuntu better!

Nicholas

On 10/24/2013 10:32 PM, Jack Ramsay wrote:

Hello,
I'm Jack. I am part of bugsquad and believe that I could help be a
tester for QA as it is not much different from what I am dhoing now. I
currently am using the 14.04 daily build so that I can help with bugs
on that. I plan to actively be involved with this team.




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New member

[Richard Hsu]

Hello All,

My name is Richard Hsu. I reside in Toronto, Canada and work for a US
financial services company.

Day job: Troubleshoot in-house applications and provide support to users.
Technologies: Sybase, Ab Initio (ETL tool), Ksh, Perl, Autosys all on Red
Hat Linux and C# desktop app on Windows.

Past: Visual Basic 6 and C# (Windows Forms and ASP.NET) programmer with
Microsoft Sql Server and Access databases.

Personal 5 year project: python programming, switch home systems to Mac OS
X or Ubuntu (currently on Windows dual boot occasionally into Ubuntu).

Why join Ubuntu QA?
I have benefitted from others on the internet so decided to give back. I
believe Ubuntu has a bright future and want to help make it better. Will
start contributing with automated tests and take it from there.

-- Richard.
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Thomas Ward]

Back when we had Brainstorm, I suggested Ubiquity (Ubuntu installer) be given a 
warning popup for both side-by-side and "use whole disk" as well as custom 
partitioning, which requires you to acknowledge the risk of such installations 
and that all information would be at risk of being destroyed (or in case of 
"use whole disk" then the data erasure was guaranteed).

But through experience on Ask Ubuntu, I've unfortunately come to realize one 
persistent truth:  no matter how many warnings you put in place about 
something, a substantial portion of all people will ignore it.  This is the 
case in when we answer questions about dual boots and say "back up your data 
you want to keep first in case something bad happens."  Almost nobody listens 
to that and data gets lost by user error in the first place.

So while I commend everyone here for identifying this fatal weakness in the 
installation process, I must also point out the weakness of people in general, 
in that they don't read half the messages proposed to them during installation 
and pre-installation.  And no matter how many warnings or risk acceptance 
requirements are put in place (videos included too) there's no true way to 
remove all issues of PEBKAC from the installation process.

--
Thomas


> On Oct 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, "Ali Linx (amjjawad)"  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:45 PM, William  wrote:
>> Okay, I think it's safe to say that so far having the initial selection 
>> warning followed by an impossible to misunderstand dialogue box that 
>> requires a check box confirmation is a solid plan. While I still think that 
>> the idea of have a youtube video is a good one: how, where, and when to 
>> implement it is highly problematic. If it is going to be presented along 
>> with or before the download link, it's presentation should be somewhat 
>> passive. We don't want to scare people off - otherwise they might have 
>> second thoughts and instead go use Fedora to accidentally wipe out Windows. 
>> Rather than including it before the download, I think a better option would 
>> be to automatically forward them to the video once the download has started. 
>> To keep everything simple, the page should located at 
>> install.ubuntugnome.org - or similar. Here is my reason for keeping the URL 
>> super simple: going back to the dialogue box, that itself should refer 
>> people to the video that they may have dismissed at download time. If your 
>> going to refer people to a URL that they have to remember, then it must be 
>> super simple, i.e. install.ubuntugnome.org - now the real problem: this page 
>> would have to present a selection of language options. Due to the nature of 
>> Linux, this is not insurmountable, but I don't know how practical it would 
>> be as an effort. Otherwise the page could simply explain things in greater 
>> detail then the installer for every language the video has yet to be 
>> translated into...? This is getting too complicated. Perhaps the video is a 
>> good idea in principle but a bad idea based on logistics alone.
> 
> Hello William,
> 
> Once this issue has been raised by my good friend Nio, I have immediately 
> updated Ubuntu GNOME Website and Ubuntu GNOME Download Wiki Page:
> 
> http://ubuntugnome.org/download/
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME#Downloading_Ubuntu_GNOME_13.10
> 
> Now, if someone decided NOT to read the first note which is "please 
> backup..." then I am afraid if he/she will come and complain that Ubuntu 
> GNOME (or any flavour) has wiped my Data and it is Linux's Fault, I can 
> simply send him/her that link with the screenshot of the installer where it 
> says: "Warning (in red), ..."
> 
> The video (HOWTO Install) is JUST an extra step to go the extra miles (that I 
> always love to do).
> 
> So, from my side, I think I can assure you that Ubuntu GNOME has advised its 
> users to backup their data before even downloading the ISO :D
> 
>  
> -- 
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> Best Regards,
> amjjawad
> Areas of Involvement
> My Projects
> -- 
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:45 PM, William  wrote:

> Okay, I think it's safe to say that so far having the initial selection
> warning followed by an impossible to misunderstand dialogue box that
> requires a check box confirmation is a solid plan. While I still think that
> the idea of have a youtube video is a good one: how, where, and when to
> implement it is highly problematic. If it is going to be presented along
> with or before the download link, it's presentation should be somewhat
> passive. We don't want to scare people off - otherwise they might have
> second thoughts and instead go use Fedora to accidentally wipe out Windows.
> Rather than including it before the download, I think a better option would
> be to automatically forward them to the video once the download has
> started. To keep everything simple, the page should located at
> install.ubuntugnome.org - or similar. Here is my reason for keeping the
> URL super simple: going back to the dialogue box, that itself should refer
> people to the video that they may have dismissed at download time. If your
> going to refer people to a URL that they have to remember, then it must be
> super simple, i.e. install.ubuntugnome.org - now the real problem: this
> page would have to present a selection of language options. Due to the
> nature of Linux, this is not insurmountable, but I don't know how practical
> it would be as an effort. Otherwise the page could simply explain things in
> greater detail then the installer for every language the video has yet to
> be translated into...? This is getting too complicated. Perhaps the video
> is a good idea in principle but a bad idea based on logistics alone.
>

Hello William,

Once this issue has been raised by my good friend Nio, I have immediately
updated Ubuntu GNOME Website and Ubuntu GNOME Download Wiki Page:

http://ubuntugnome.org/download/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME#Downloading_Ubuntu_GNOME_13.10

Now, if someone decided NOT to read the first note which is "please
backup..." then I am afraid if he/she will come and complain that Ubuntu
GNOME (or any flavour) has wiped my Data and it is Linux's Fault, I can
simply send him/her that link with the screenshot of the installer where it
says: "Warning (in red), ..."

The video (HOWTO Install) is JUST an extra step to go the extra miles (that
I always love to do).

So, from my side, I think I can assure you that Ubuntu GNOME has advised
its users to backup their data before even downloading the ISO :D


-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Julien Olivier  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
> dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.
>

Hi Julien,

Thanks for your reply :)

AFAIK, Ubuntu, and all the other official flavours, have their website in
English Language and same goes to the Official Wiki Pages :)
For the last 3 years, I have never seen an official website nor a Wiki Page
in different Language

Examples:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME

Just to be extra clear, my suggestion was plain and simple and it is up to
the community to decide:

1- Add a note just like:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME#Downloading_Ubuntu_GNOME_13.10and
http://ubuntugnome.org/download/ which is:

"Please, *BACKUP* your important Data before anything else. Don't assume
that Ubuntu GNOME will do it for you automatically."

2- If we do want to go the extra miles, at the very same place, we can
include a YouTube Link for a Video. That video will explain HOWTO Install
the System, no more, no less.

I don't know why these two simple suggestions are creating so much
confusion?

After all, there is NOTHING broken to be fixed, IMHO. I do not find any
problem with the current installer.

However, for those who insist there is something wrong and that we should
take extra steps then:

"Adding a pop-up" message asking someone to BACKUP his/her Data WHILE
he/she is actually installing the system is non-sense to me. This MUST be
mentioned 'before' someone starts to download :)

"Adding a pop-up" message to warn the user that all his data will be lost
could be a good point as a 'second warning' and I do insist it is a second
one since the first is already mentioned. I have no problem with that. It
is up to our developers to decide this :)

I fail to see why we should do a video in all the languages? the websites
and the wiki area all using English Language :)

Forget the video if you don't want to explain to the users how to install
the system. But please, understand many users may really fail to install
the system no matter how many HOWTOs are written on google.


Anyway, I have given a simple solution. It is up to the community now to
decide what is the best for a newcomer :)

For Ubuntu GNOME, I will solve this my way ;)

So far, I have never received any complaint about that. I mean, Ubuntu
GNOME specific. Once my voice is back to normal, I am going to create a
video for HOWTO Install Ubuntu GNOME. You will find it on my Channel if you
are interested.

Thanks :)
P.S.
We are at the end of 2013 and I wonder when can we get the best of the
technologies?

-- 
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Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[William]

Okay, I think it's safe to say that so far having the initial selection 
warning followed by an impossible to misunderstand dialogue box that 
requires a check box confirmation is a solid plan. While I still think 
that the idea of have a youtube video is a good one: how, where, and 
when to implement it is highly problematic. If it is going to be 
presented along with or before the download link, it's presentation 
should be somewhat passive. We don't want to scare people off - 
otherwise they might have second thoughts and instead go use Fedora to 
accidentally wipe out Windows. Rather than including it before the 
download, I think a better option would be to automatically forward them 
to the video once the download has started. To keep everything simple, 
the page should located at install.ubuntugnome.org - or similar. Here is 
my reason for keeping the URL super simple: going back to the dialogue 
box, that itself should refer people to the video that they may have 
dismissed at download time. If your going to refer people to a URL that 
they have to remember, then it must be super simple, i.e. 
install.ubuntugnome.org - now the real problem: this page would have to 
present a selection of language options. Due to the nature of Linux, 
this is not insurmountable, but I don't know how practical it would be 
as an effort. Otherwise the page could simply explain things in greater 
detail then the installer for every language the video has yet to be 
translated into...? This is getting too complicated. Perhaps the video 
is a good idea in principle but a bad idea based on logistics alone.



On 10/25/2013 08:24 AM, Julien Olivier wrote:

Hi,

the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.

On ven., 2013-10-25 at 17:03 +0400, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:
 Dear all,
 
 In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube

 video is a good idea but what if people don't have internet. I
 also think that if we add a check-box to the pop-up so that
 the user understands what they’re doing. That will cause them
 to stop and read what is there. This may help with people
 rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
 concerns.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jack
 



Hi Jack,


If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able
to 'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will
obviously not be able to install anything to start with ;)


The video Link will NOT be included on the Installer -
http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html



It should be included it 'before' the download Link.


I have done an example on our Website (Ubuntu GNOME Website) where it
is so clear that the Video Link is before the Download Link.


That is all :)


--
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Best Regards,

amjjawad

Areas of Involvement

My Projects







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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Julien Olivier]

Hi,

the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.

On ven., 2013-10-25 at 17:03 +0400, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:
> Dear all, 
> 
> In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube
> video is a good idea but what if people don't have internet. I
> also think that if we add a check-box to the pop-up so that
> the user understands what they’re doing. That will cause them
> to stop and read what is there. This may help with people
> rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
> concerns.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jack,
> 
> 
> If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able
> to 'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will
> obviously not be able to install anything to start with ;)
> 
> 
> The video Link will NOT be included on the Installer -
> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
> 
> 
> 
> It should be included it 'before' the download Link.
> 
> 
> I have done an example on our Website (Ubuntu GNOME Website) where it
> is so clear that the Video Link is before the Download Link.
> 
> 
> That is all :)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> Best Regards,
> 
> amjjawad
> 
> Areas of Involvement
> 
> My Projects
> 



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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Jack Ramsay]

William,
I would say that the video would be a pain because Ubuntu is used around
the world and the video would have to be painstakingly be made in many
languages. The pop-up with the check-box would be the way to go its not
intrusive or anything and it wouldn't be too hard to add.
On Oct 25, 2013 8:45 AM, "William"  wrote:

> Okay, I think it's safe to say that so far having the initial selection
> warning followed by an impossible to misunderstand dialogue box that
> requires a check box confirmation is a solid plan. While I still think that
> the idea of have a youtube video is a good one: how, where, and when to
> implement it is highly problematic. If it is going to be presented along
> with or before the download link, it's presentation should be somewhat
> passive. We don't want to scare people off - otherwise they might have
> second thoughts and instead go use Fedora to accidentally wipe out Windows.
> Rather than including it before the download, I think a better option would
> be to automatically forward them to the video once the download has
> started. To keep everything simple, the page should located at
> install.ubuntugnome.org - or similar. Here is my reason for keeping the
> URL super simple: going back to the dialogue box, that itself should refer
> people to the video that they may have dismissed at download time. If your
> going to refer people to a URL that they have to remember, then it must be
> super simple, i.e. install.ubuntugnome.org - now the real problem: this
> page would have to present a selection of language options. Due to the
> nature of Linux, this is not insurmountable, but I don't know how practical
> it would be as an effort. Otherwise the page could simply explain things in
> greater detail then the installer for every language the video has yet to
> be translated into...? This is getting too complicated. Perhaps the video
> is a good idea in principle but a bad idea based on logistics alone.
>
>
> On 10/25/2013 08:24 AM, Julien Olivier wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
>> dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.
>>
>> On ven., 2013-10-25 at 17:03 +0400, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:
>>>  Dear all,
>>>   In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The
>>> youtube
>>>  video is a good idea but what if people don't have internet. I
>>>  also think that if we add a check-box to the pop-up so that
>>>  the user understands what they’re doing. That will cause them
>>>  to stop and read what is there. This may help with people
>>>  rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
>>>  concerns.
>>>Thanks,
>>>   Jack
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jack,
>>>
>>>
>>> If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able
>>> to 'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will
>>> obviously not be able to install anything to start with ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> The video Link will NOT be included on the Installer -
>>> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/**2013/10/ubiquity-and-**
>>> installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It should be included it 'before' the download Link.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have done an example on our Website (Ubuntu GNOME Website) where it
>>> is so clear that the Video Link is before the Download Link.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is all :)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> amjjawad
>>>
>>> Areas of Involvement
>>>
>>> My Projects
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[james]

You could easily make a video and have the file located locally and just point 
the html/pop-up to the file, that way it would not matter if they had internet 
or not.

Just an idea

Fetz


Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-Original Message-
From: Elfy 
Sender: ubuntu-quality-bounces@lists.ubuntu.comDate: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:17:37 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Jack Ramsay]

That is very true
On Oct 25, 2013 8:24 AM, "Julien Olivier"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> the video idea is not so good for another reason: it would need to be
> dubbed in all supported languages, and that's not very practical.
>
> On ven., 2013-10-25 at 17:03 +0400, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube
> > video is a good idea but what if people don't have internet. I
> > also think that if we add a check-box to the pop-up so that
> > the user understands what they’re doing. That will cause them
> > to stop and read what is there. This may help with people
> > rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
> > concerns.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Jack,
> >
> >
> > If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able
> > to 'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will
> > obviously not be able to install anything to start with ;)
> >
> >
> > The video Link will NOT be included on the Installer -
> >
> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
> >
> >
> >
> > It should be included it 'before' the download Link.
> >
> >
> > I have done an example on our Website (Ubuntu GNOME Website) where it
> > is so clear that the Video Link is before the Download Link.
> >
> >
> > That is all :)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > amjjawad
> >
> > Areas of Involvement
> >
> > My Projects
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Elfy]

On 25/10/13 14:03, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:


On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay > wrote:


Dear all,
In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube video
is a good idea _*but what if people don't have internet.*_ I also
think that if we add a check-box to the pop-up so that the user
understands what they're doing. That will cause them to stop and
read what is there. This may help with people rushing through the
installer. Please send feedback, ideas or concerns.

Thanks,
Jack


Hi Jack,

If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able 
to 'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will 
obviously not be able to install anything to start with ;)


Of course they can.

They can buy it from Canonical.

They can ask someone to download it for them.



...





Elfy

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Xubuntu QA Lead

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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:

> Dear all,
> In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube video is a
> good idea *but what if people don't have internet.* I also think that if
> we add a check-box to the pop-up so that the user understands what they’re
> doing. That will cause them to stop and read what is there. This may help
> with people rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
> concerns.
>
> Thanks,
> Jack
>

Hi Jack,

If someone has NO Internet connection, then he/she would not be able to
'download' the ISO to begin with and therefore, he/she will obviously not
be able to install anything to start with ;)

The video Link will NOT be included on the Installer -
http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html

It should be included it 'before' the download Link.

I have done an example on our Website (Ubuntu GNOME Website) where it is so
clear that the Video Link is before the Download Link.

That is all :)

-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Jack Ramsay]

Dear all,
In my opinion the pop-up is a great idea. Also, The youtube video is a good
idea but what if people don't have internet. I also think that if we add a
check-box to the pop-up so that the user understands what they’re doing.
That will cause them to stop and read what is there. This may help with
people rushing through the installer. Please send feedback, ideas or
concerns.

Thanks,
Jack



On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:

>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 1:49 AM, William  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 10/24/2013 04:03 PM, Colin Law wrote:
>>
>> On 24 October 2013 18:05, chris hermansen  
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  William, I am with you. But still "remove windows" leaves the would-be
>> ubuntu user to think that there may be a way to put it back later...
>>
>>  It is some time since I did an install like that, but does it not warn
>> with a message "Warning this will delete all files on the disk" or
>> something similar before it starts the install?
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>  Colin, Look at the screen shot part way down this post, it clearly
>> states: Warning: this will delete all your programs, documents, photos,
>> music, and other files in both Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04.
>>
>>
>> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
>>
>> That seems pretty clear to me.
>>
>
> +1
>
>
>
>> Although since this is in fact happening, the suggestion made in the
>> linked blog post should likely be implemented, but there should probably
>> first also be an extra pop-up warning when people select this option.
>>
>
> While the idea of having a pop-up warning message might be useful for
> those who are lazy enough (because they didn't read the 'first' warning),
> the question is, will they read the 'second' warning or will ignore it just
> like they did with the 'first' one? :) but, let's all remember that this
> work will be done by developers and I am sure many will be involved to
> approve it :) not sure how long that will take and how long we need to
> carry on to discuss that.
>
> IMHO, if it is not broken, don't fix it :D
>
>
>
>> If they don't heed the warning the first time when they make their
>> selection, oops. If they don't heed a second pop up warning, shame on them.
>> But if they are so bad with computers that they still really truly don't
>> understand what's happening, I agree with the blog post that they should be
>> directed to a youtube video explaining everything.
>>
>
> Exactly :)
> As my good friend Iberê Fernandes mentioned, Windows Users are very much
> used to "Click", "Next", "Next", "Ok", etc.
>
> I am sure you all know what I am talking about. We all have been Windows
> Users. Have we ever read the whole message? or have we only actually read
> the very last sentence which is usually a Question and hit either "Ok" or
> "Cancel"? :)
>
> Why would we forget that now? I mean, those Windows Users who are
> newcomers to Linux will do exactly the same. They used not to read. In
> fact, some Linux Users don't read as well. I am afraid we can NOT blame the
> system here :)
>
>
>
>> We now live in an era where people who have absolutely no idea what they
>> are doing with computers on a technical level want to install Linux. I call
>> that a good thing and we should give them all the direction they need.
>>
>
> Well said :)
>
>
>
>>  The history of MS Windows is laden with repetitive "are you sure" "are
>> you sure you're sure" dialogs because apparently a lot of people actually
>> need that. Perhaps the obviousness of the warning as it stands is something
>> people like us take for granted because we are computer inclined and
>> everyone else really is that... dense for lack of a better word. I suppose
>> we need to help the masses on board by whatever means.
>>
>
> What amjjawad thinks is this:
> Support and Help and newcomers to Linux as much as possible but try to:
>
> 1- Educate/Guide them how to help themselves once, they will remember that
> forever and will then start to do the same with other newcomers - Open
> Their Mind, Make Them Think Linux :)
>
> 2- Take them under your wing and make them feel home but that does not
> mean you feed them the Windows Way, they need to feel the difference and
> they need to breathe the Linux Way of everything - Yes, step by step for
> sure :)
>
>
> I know my way of doing everything is different from most of other people
> but that is the real fun and challenge. I personally NOT looking for new
> members who are using Linux the Windows Way, nor looking for taking over
> all Desktop/Laptops and convert that to Linux. What I am usually trying to
> do is to build a community of Linux Contributors who are NOT only 'using'
> Linux, but spread it, educate themselves to educate others and be active
> contributor to the best software on earth, that is Linux. This is, IMHO,
> how Linux can simply take over Windows :)
>
> I understand YMMV but this is me :)
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us

Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 1:49 AM, William  wrote:

>
> On 10/24/2013 04:03 PM, Colin Law wrote:
>
> On 24 October 2013 18:05, chris hermansen  
>  wrote:
>
>  William, I am with you. But still "remove windows" leaves the would-be
> ubuntu user to think that there may be a way to put it back later...
>
>  It is some time since I did an install like that, but does it not warn
> with a message "Warning this will delete all files on the disk" or
> something similar before it starts the install?
>
> Colin
>
>  Colin, Look at the screen shot part way down this post, it clearly
> states: Warning: this will delete all your programs, documents, photos,
> music, and other files in both Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04.
>
>
> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
>
> That seems pretty clear to me.
>

+1



> Although since this is in fact happening, the suggestion made in the
> linked blog post should likely be implemented, but there should probably
> first also be an extra pop-up warning when people select this option.
>

While the idea of having a pop-up warning message might be useful for those
who are lazy enough (because they didn't read the 'first' warning), the
question is, will they read the 'second' warning or will ignore it just
like they did with the 'first' one? :) but, let's all remember that this
work will be done by developers and I am sure many will be involved to
approve it :) not sure how long that will take and how long we need to
carry on to discuss that.

IMHO, if it is not broken, don't fix it :D



> If they don't heed the warning the first time when they make their
> selection, oops. If they don't heed a second pop up warning, shame on them.
> But if they are so bad with computers that they still really truly don't
> understand what's happening, I agree with the blog post that they should be
> directed to a youtube video explaining everything.
>

Exactly :)
As my good friend Iberê Fernandes mentioned, Windows Users are very much
used to "Click", "Next", "Next", "Ok", etc.

I am sure you all know what I am talking about. We all have been Windows
Users. Have we ever read the whole message? or have we only actually read
the very last sentence which is usually a Question and hit either "Ok" or
"Cancel"? :)

Why would we forget that now? I mean, those Windows Users who are newcomers
to Linux will do exactly the same. They used not to read. In fact, some
Linux Users don't read as well. I am afraid we can NOT blame the system
here :)



> We now live in an era where people who have absolutely no idea what they
> are doing with computers on a technical level want to install Linux. I call
> that a good thing and we should give them all the direction they need.
>

Well said :)



> The history of MS Windows is laden with repetitive "are you sure" "are you
> sure you're sure" dialogs because apparently a lot of people actually need
> that. Perhaps the obviousness of the warning as it stands is something
> people like us take for granted because we are computer inclined and
> everyone else really is that... dense for lack of a better word. I suppose
> we need to help the masses on board by whatever means.
>

What amjjawad thinks is this:
Support and Help and newcomers to Linux as much as possible but try to:

1- Educate/Guide them how to help themselves once, they will remember that
forever and will then start to do the same with other newcomers - Open
Their Mind, Make Them Think Linux :)

2- Take them under your wing and make them feel home but that does not mean
you feed them the Windows Way, they need to feel the difference and they
need to breathe the Linux Way of everything - Yes, step by step for sure :)


I know my way of doing everything is different from most of other people
but that is the real fun and challenge. I personally NOT looking for new
members who are using Linux the Windows Way, nor looking for taking over
all Desktop/Laptops and convert that to Linux. What I am usually trying to
do is to build a community of Linux Contributors who are NOT only 'using'
Linux, but spread it, educate themselves to educate others and be active
contributor to the best software on earth, that is Linux. This is, IMHO,
how Linux can simply take over Windows :)

I understand YMMV but this is me :)

Thanks!

-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[Colin Law]

On 24 October 2013 22:49, William  wrote:
>
> On 10/24/2013 04:03 PM, Colin Law wrote:
>
> On 24 October 2013 18:05, chris hermansen  wrote:
>
> William, I am with you. But still "remove windows" leaves the would-be
> ubuntu user to think that there may be a way to put it back later...
>
> It is some time since I did an install like that, but does it not warn
> with a message "Warning this will delete all files on the disk" or
> something similar before it starts the install?
>
> Colin, Look at the screen shot part way down this post, it clearly states:
> Warning: this will delete all your programs, documents, photos, music, and
> other files in both Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04.
>
> http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html
>
> That seems pretty clear to me. Although since this is in fact happening, the
> suggestion made in the linked blog post should likely be implemented, but
> there should probably first also be an extra pop-up warning when people
> select this option.

> If they don't heed the warning the first time when they
> make their selection, oops. If they don't heed a second pop up warning,
> shame on them. But if they are so bad with computers that they still really
> truly don't understand what's happening, I agree with the blog post that
> they should be directed to a youtube video explaining everything.
>

I agree that a popup warning would be a good idea when the user clicks
Install after selecting to overwrite everything.  Then there should be
no doubt about what is going to happen.  I am not sure that a video
will help as I am not convinced that most will look at it, but on the
other hand it would do no harm and could be useful for those that do
look.  However one does have to remember that it will have to be
re-done every time the interface changes otherwise it will just add to
the confusion.

Colin

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Re: [Lubuntu-comms] People do not understand the desktop installer

[William]

On 10/24/2013 04:03 PM, Colin Law wrote:

On 24 October 2013 18:05, chris hermansen  wrote:

William, I am with you. But still "remove windows" leaves the would-be
ubuntu user to think that there may be a way to put it back later...

It is some time since I did an install like that, but does it not warn
with a message "Warning this will delete all files on the disk" or
something similar before it starts the install?

Colin
Colin, Look at the screen shot part way down this post, it clearly 
states: Warning: this will delete all your programs, documents, photos, 
music, and other files in both Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04.


http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/10/ubiquity-and-installing-ubuntu-and-its.html

That seems pretty clear to me. Although since this is in fact happening, 
the suggestion made in the linked blog post should likely be 
implemented, but there should probably first also be an extra pop-up 
warning when people select this option. If they don't heed the warning 
the first time when they make their selection, oops. If they don't heed 
a second pop up warning, shame on them. But if they are so bad with 
computers that they still really truly don't understand what's 
happening, I agree with the blog post that they should be directed to a 
youtube video explaining everything.


We now live in an era where people who have absolutely no idea what they 
are doing with computers on a technical level want to install Linux. I 
call that a good thing and we should give them all the direction they need.


The history of MS Windows is laden with repetitive "are you sure" "are 
you sure you're sure" dialogs because apparently a lot of people 
actually need that. Perhaps the obviousness of the warning as it stands 
is something people like us take for granted because we are computer 
inclined and everyone else really is that... dense for lack of a better 
word. I suppose we need to help the masses on board by whatever means.




Perhaps "remove windows and all your files completely - they cannot be
recovered except possibly from whatever backup you have" would be better.

On 2013-10-24 8:41 AM, "William"  wrote:


On 10/24/2013 09:05 AM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) 
wrote:


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Nio Wiklund 
wrote:

On 2013-10-24 15:31, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Nio Wiklund mailto:nio.wikl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 Hi everybody,

 Today, there is another person, who misunderstood the partitioning
 dialogue of the desktop installer.

 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2183287

 'When I went to install 13.10 I chose the option to remove windows
and
 replace with Ubuntu. I had two partitions when I chose this. One
with
 files I wanted to keep and the other being the windows 7
partition. When
 I chose to remove windows I assumed it would be placed on my C
drive and
 not my other one. But what actually ended up happening was all my
 partitions merged into one deleting everything. Now I only have
Ubuntu
 on my drive. I need help retrieving my files please!'

 -o-

 This is what I have been telling, when describing the One Button
 Installer

 '...
 Case 1: Tool that is easy to use and just works

 The normal linux installers that come with iso files are
complicated to
 use or freeze during the installation process, and you want a tool
that
 is easier to use and just works.
 ...
 a. The Desktop Installer is flexible and looks nice, and is
generally
 easy to understand, but the partitioning page can make people
confused.
 There are several threads at the Ubuntu Forums describing
installations,
 where a previous system has been overwritten by mistake. ...'

 It is really too bad, and something that should be improved in
14.04

 Best regards
 Nio


Hi,

All that can be solved in one two 'very' simple steps:

1- Create a YouTube Video that explains in details HOWTO Install
Ubuntu
with all the possible cases
2- Add a link for that YouTube Video right next to the Download Link
so
those who download Ubuntu or any flavour can 'watch' and 'learn' how
to
install the system

Time is money and saving time is a very important factor in just 6
months cycle :)

Just a very quick thought!

--
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement

My Projects 

1. I do think it is important to improve the text in the installer
itself


Any suggestions? for someone who failed to backup his/her important data
before actually wiping his/her HDD, I'd only think he/she will not even
bother to read any text :)



because those who might need the video might not play it.


As I mentioned, the Link of that HOWTO Video must be posted right next to
the Downloa

Re: Introduction

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 6:32 AM, Jack Ramsay  wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm Jack. I am part of bugsquad and believe that I could help be a
> tester for QA as it is not much different from what I am dhoing now. I
> currently am using the 14.04 daily build so that I can help with bugs
> on that. I plan to actively be involved with this team.
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Jack


Hello Jack :)

Welcome to Ubuntu Quality Team!

I'm glad you liked the Nicholas's idea and you joined us. Hope you will
feel home here :)

We usually ask our members to view this and add their names:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/WhoWeAre

And we also encourage them to add their hardware:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware

Of course, it would be great if you have Social Media Accounts so you can
join us here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam#Social_Networks

And, I'd also recommend to bookmark this Wiki Page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam

I am the QA Lead or Ubuntu GNOME and the Social Media Administrator of
Ubuntu Quality Team. If you need anything, let us/me know :)

Thank you and we are looking forward to have fun with you!

-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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Re: A proposal to combine quality and bugsquad teams

[Ali Linx (amjjawad)]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Nicholas Skaggs <
nicholas.ska...@canonical.com> wrote:

>  Hello everyone! To the bugsquaders, my name might not be too familar
> with you. I am the QA Community Coordinator on Jono's team. My goal has
> been to help the quality community succeed and do great things within
> ubuntu. It's been wonderful learning and growing together over the last
> several cycles. However I've not interacted much with the bugsquad during
> that time because of the seperation between the QA team and the bugsquad.
>
> Historically the quality team and the bugsquad have been seperate. Today I
> want to propose that we end that seperation. I would like to adopt the
> bugsquad under the quality community team. I want to encourage those of you
> who are in the bugsquad to consider some of the new oppurtunities that are
> availible to the greater QA Team. And for the QA team, I want to encourage
> us as a community to learn more about bugs and take part in the tasks the
> bugsquad has traditional held. For instance, triage activities and SRU's,
> bug hug days, etc.
>
> To help with this I've created a series of roles for the quality
> community; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/. For the tester role,
> I've incorporated bugsquad activities in addition to the traditional
> activities a QA team member could partake in. I feel like the listed
> 'tester' role could be assumed by anyone today in the bugsquad, but please
> correct me if I am wrong. We can certainly define an additional role if it
> makes sense.
>
> Traditionally we as a quality community host a series of workshops at the
> beginning of the cycle to help newcomers learn skills to contribute to
> quality. I trust those of you who are veteran members of the bugsquad
> might be able to bring us as a community up to speed on how to be good
> triagers, and reporters, etc as part of these workshops.
>
> I would like everyone's feedback before I think too long about the the
> implementation details. Simply put, as a quality team we need to know how
> to be good bug reporters. And as testers we have the skills needed to
> triage and verify bugs and fixes. I think it makes sense to utilize the
> skills both teams posess and combine them as part of the quality community.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Nicholas
>

Hi all,

I do support this idea/proposal and both teams whether we agreed to join
forces or not, you all have my full help and support :)

I have more than one role and do many tasks but what is related to this
subject/matter, I am the QA Lead of Ubuntu GNOME and Ubuntu Quality Social
Media Administrator.

Looking forward to work together and share everything :)

Thank you!
-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad 
Areas of Involvement 
My Projects 
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