Re: [Ubuntu-bugcontrol] I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Dario Ruellan]

Something I'm missing on those tutorials is the recommendation for search
for updates before reporting the bug, just in case the problem is already
fixed.

Seem important for me, but I like to hear a second opinion about it.

On May 29, 2017 10:50 PM, "C de-Avillez"  wrote:

> On Sun, 28 May 2017 16:54:45 +0200
> Alberto Salvia Novella  wrote:
>
> > About:
> > (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)
> > (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)
>
> OK, let's get thru the proposed page.
>
> I will be copying text from the proposed Reporting Bugs so that I can
> comment. The version I am using is #32, timestamped 2017-05-27 22:38:52.
>
> Text copied will have the usual "> " we see on replies (well, at least
> *I* see on my text emails. I do not know what/how it is shown on
> HTML/richText).
>
> * 1. Etiquette
>
> > If you care about an Ubuntu release not having bugs, test the daily
> >  image five months before launch. So developers have time to fix it.
>
> Why 5 months before? Our release cycle is *still* 6 months. If we test
> an image 5 months before release, we will be testing pre-alpha code.
>
> * how are people -- non-technical people -- going to test it?
>   Something that is, 5 months before release, pre-alpha?
> * should they only test the code as is 5 months before release?
>
> > If writing more doesn't make a tangible difference, write less.
>
> We need context. If fact, the sentence above is a good example of why
> writing *less* does not always help.
>
> > If you have any doubt, you can ask any time.
>
> I absolutely agree. 100%. All for it. Always.
>
> But...
>
> My issue here is the word "ask", above, is a link to mailing to the
> ubuntu-quality ML. Nothing else. But the ubuntu-quality mailing list is
> NOT the only resource available for people in doubt. There are also:
>
> * IRC
> * The Ubuntu fora (https://ubuntuforums.org)
> * AskUbuntu (https://askubuntu.com/)
> * the answers section on Launchpad (https://answers.launchpad.net/)
> * the ubuntu-users mailing list
> * the Ubuntu documentation (https://help.ubuntu.com/)
> * and MANY other mailing lists.
>
> To limit to ONE source for answers really does not help. At all. And it
> is not even the most important source for bugs/issues/support.
>
> 2. Not Bugs
>
> > Reporting misspells
>
> But a misspell *is* a bug. Why wouldn't a mispell be reported?
>
> 3. Reporting windowed aplications
>
> > In the Terminal application enter:
> >
> > ubuntu-bug -w
>
> Ah, OK. And then this ubuntu-bug thingie will magically find the bug I
> want to report, right? Oh, it will not? what should I do then?
>
> 4. Reporting non windowed applications
>
> > 1. Using the Synaptic application and the list of common packages,
> > determine which software package is the most likely to be affected.
>
> But synaptic is no longer installed by default. How is a casual user
> going to *know* that, and how would this casual user get synaptic
> installed? Are there other options? What are they?
>
> 5. Reporting unusable systems
>
> Now we have, as far as I am concerned, a real issue. As I have already
> stated, we do not simply need more bugs, we need *good*, *workable*,
> bugs. Our experience with free bug entry was horrible. many of the bugs
> entered were unworkable. This was why the free bug entry was removed
> from view.
>
> -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
>
> This is one reason of why reporting bugs is so complicated. It is not
> *easy* to report a bug. Keep in mind that a bug report is a *technical*
> report of a software defect.
>
> If one does not know what a bug is (hint: a bug is a defect in a
> program/package), why should one be able to enter *anything* as a bug?
>
> If one does not know if the bad experience just had is, or is not, a
> bug, then one would be better served by going to the community support
> areas I pointed above. If necessary, after being helped by somebody else
> in the community -- and if determined to be a bug -- then a bug may be
> opened. But know, at least, we have a good chance of knowing the correct
> package name, and  other important details to be reported.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ..C..
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Dario Ruellan]

We do not want more people to open bugs. We want more people to open
*good* bugs reports. Reports that can be worked out by triagers,
maintainers, developers. This means the reports must be more on the
complete side. More on the technical side. Less on the "it did not
work". The triagers will complete the details.

But I can guarantee you that a extremely vague bug will be left aside.
Which, BTW, I think is wrong: it should be closed INVALID (no actual
data provided).

>
> And the second question is "would the proposed draft allow most
> people to report bugs?"

Yes, it will. And therein lies the danger. It is NOT easy to write an
usable bug report. Why should it be easy to write a bad one?

Excellent answer. Then, we can assume that we are not looking for a
simplification of the process, but a way to better organize the topics, and
perhaps add an introduction with things you must do before reporting, like
update, make sure it IS a bug, and identify a system or an app bug.
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Dario Ruellan]

I strongly recommend to stop this right here right now, kill the thread and
start over.

I think that everyone here understands that many people are not native
English speakers, and we are trying to communicate the best way possible.
Also, I think everyone understands that Alberto is trying to solve a
problem he is experiencing with users that want to contribute to the
buglist, and so far I don't see anyone debating that point, so, we can
assume the problem is real and worth thinking about it on another thread.

So, let's take a couple of days and start over, otherwise this is going to
end with someone deeply frustrated and/or banned from the list.


On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Walter Lapchynski  wrote:

>
>
> On May 11, 2017 3:17:14 PM PDT, Alberto Salvia Novella <
> es204904...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Men
>
> There's more than just those in the community.
>
> > on mail I'm just b*.
> > put that b*** there.
>
> This is inappropriate language for this community. Please consult the Code
> of Conduct.
>
> > when I answer in
> >video I know my intentions are well interpreted, and that I'm not
> >saying
> >something too stupid that could piss people off.
>
> Your video in response to the angry response you got posting a confusing
> image was far more offensive than anything you said in text.
>
> I'm convinced you have good intentions. Unfortunately, the road to hell is
> paved with those. I encourage you to stop and think long and hard about how
> to contribute successfully to a community that doesn't always think like
> you. Hint: read the Code of Conduct.
> --
>@wxl | polka.bike
> C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D
> 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Dario Ruellan]

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella <
es204904...@gmail.com> wrote:


> What if we took advantage of the capability of wikis to abstract pages,
> and we make a guide that is concise, but provides generous amount of detail
> on sub-pages?
>

I think that can be the way to go. Looking at the current documentation, we
can divide the thing into this categories:

Application crash
System crash
Non-crash bugs for apps
Non-crash bugs for system
Translation bugs

and not present but implicit:
non-bugs but actually feature requests

Now, application crash and system crash can have automated reports, so,
this guide is going to be useful only if the user wants to fill a manual
report. Seems that the guide is using three approaches

Manually on Launchpad
Using Apport on an open window
Using Apport on a specific package
Messing with the Apport config file to enable some options that perhaps are
disabled on a stable release.

The last one looks a bit overkill. It is nice to know this if you're
planning to be a regular bug reporter, but for a one-time reporter I don't
think is going to work.

About the manual use of Apport, I don't remember if you need a Launchpad
account to file a bug this way. If NOT, then, I prefer the Launchpad
approach, since otherwise can be difficult to follow up the bug, if you
need more details from the reporter.

So, in the end, this document can be the "advanced" guide, and the simple
or quick guide can be something like:

System freeze -> gather information -> Launchpad -> search for similar bugs
-> report
System bug -> is it really a system bug? -> update -> gather information ->
Launchpad -> search for similar bugs -> report
App bug -> is it really an app bug? -> update -> gather information ->
Launchpad -> search for similar bugs -> report
Missbehaving of system/app -> is it really a bug? -> update -> gather
information -> Launchpad -> search for similar bugs -> report
Translation bug -> determine the app -> update -> Launchpad -> search for
similar bugs -> report
Feature requests -> go somewhere

-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + --

So, the question here is: we need this simplification? The idea is to
gather more bugs from regular users. Alberto is stating that many people
has problems with the current documentation, and after reading the guide, I
can say that can be a bit technical. But that can be actually the point:
filter regular users from the ones that have the knowledge and dedication
for this.

-- + -- + -- + -- + -- + --


> Do in private, so we can keep the conversation as light as possible till
> we finally get it to the public.
>
>
I have no problem leaving this in public, in fact, could be nice to first
gather consensus regarding the actual documentation.
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Dario Ruellan]

Hi. I'm following this discussion with attention and I think we need to
first separate the idea from the execution, because I understand what
Alberto is trying to do here: simplify documentation so the non technical
user can contribute.

The thing is: documentation as it is today is needed, so more advanced
users can provide more detailed reports, that in the end are going to be
more useful to devs.

In the end, I don't see why those two guides can't coexist, one as a quick
guide, the other as advanced guide.

I love the header on this page, allows me to quickly jump sections.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/Install_Bugs


I also like the idea about videos, since many users are willing to watch
them instead of read a bunch of text.

So, in the end, I think that Alberto need to keep exploring that idea as
complement or introduction for the current documentation, that btw, we are
assuming is still correct and relevant. We also need to be sure that the
"quick version" is also useful for a correct triage of the bug.

PD: It's 3am and I'm writing on the phone, so, bear with me if I'm missing
some points here.
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Re: Upgrade was a disaster as usual <- still dead horse, just a clarification.

[Dario Ruellan]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Brendan Perrine 
wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 08:54:36 -0800
> Brian Murray  wrote:
>
> > from people who are nice and respectful than people who yell and
> Yes this is so true.
>
>
In fact, I missed the bug report on the original message just because I was
too focused reading the rant.
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Re: Teo and his/her problems

[Dario Ruellan]

>
> I posted this bug report:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-
> upgrader/+bug/1649153
>
> Thanks, yes, I missed that on the first post.

Lets see how this evolve, but on the report, I can see the systemd package
failed to install, and this is a critical error that should trigger a
rollback on the installer (that didn't happen), similar to this bug
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1606767, reported
back on July, high priority.
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Re: Teo and his/her problems

[Dario Ruellan]

On Dec 13, 2016 2:19 AM, "William D Turner"  wrote:

So it makes me wonder what is wrong with Teo's setup that it seems so
unstable? Perhaps we could investigate that aspect rather fight each other.
Just my 2c.


Agree. I was ready to post an answer asking for some specs but got busy and
forgot about it. Teo seems to be the kind of person that likes to customize
and try things on his setup, and we all know is easy to screw up things if
you then try to run a complex automated script like an upgrade, but also
could be an unusual partition setup (new Windows versions are a mess) or
just a hardware problem.

As a Quality Team, we (or you, I'm not really active here) are not a
customer support, but we need to pay attention when something gets
fantastically wrong, like this case.
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Re: Common situations where a bug isn't real

[Dario Ruellan]

  Its software has not been packaged by Ubuntu, but by a third party.
 Agree
  that can't be fixable by Ubuntu, but, it is still a Pepercut
 If and only if you work with upstream/third-party to fix it.  That's
 outside the realm of Ubuntu bug triage and probably papercuts...


No, it was a confusion from my part: you can have a third-party app
packaged by Ubuntu, like Rhythmbox, and its OK to contact upstream to try
fix a bug. But if the app is not in Ubuntu repositories it is pointless. I
agree that this kind of bug not worth the effort.

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Re: Common situations where a bug isn't real

[Dario Ruellan]

I was following this discussion passively, trying to filter-out the emoji
situation ;)
About the final Common situations I have two questions:

Its software has not been packaged by Ubuntu, but by a third party. Agree
that can't be fixable by Ubuntu, but, it is still a Pepercut?
The user mangled the /etc/apt/sources.list file is not the same as The
user misconfigured the system? Looks redundant.

Thanks!


On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella 
es204904...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've been writing a list of common situations where a bug isn't real:

 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Work-flow/Triage/Real

 Do you know of some other?

 Regards.


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Re: Trusty Beta 2 Testing Report

[Dario Ruellan]

I'm also late for the tests, and I want to report 3 usability issues (lack
of contrast on dropdown selectors, wrong background color on dropdown
scroll-arrows and lack of feedback clicking on shutdown/restart dialog).
The beta is now archived: how to proceed?


On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Pierre Equoy pierre.eq...@gmail.comwrote:

 Salut JB !

 If I have some time this week-end, can I perform additional tests or is it
 too late to make it to the Trusty Beta2 Testing Report?

 Cheers,


 On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Jean-Baptiste Lallement 
 jean-baptiste.lallem...@ubuntu.com wrote:

  Hi all,
 
  The testing report for Trusty Beta 2 has been published to
 
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/TrustyBeta2TestingReport
 
  Thanks you to larsnooden, davmor2, maclin.jun, lbsolost, elfy, rcj,
  rohangarg, gilir, nio-wiklund, jr, lixiaoling, 295723212-v, stgraber,
 lyz,
  paulw2u, 1chb1n, adconrad, texadactyl, zequence, slickymaster, scottbomb,
  irihapeti, jimmy-sjolund, andrei-bugoiu, len-ovenwerks, knome,
  jiri-podvolecky, kaiserclaudius, james-page, pierre-equoy, kidsodateless,
  wkrekik, nskaggs, xdatap1, hirenngandhi, toz, johnnywholesome,
 walterorlin
  and every one who helped in testing this milestone!
 
  See you all in 3 weeks for the final release :)
 
  JB.
 
  --
  Jean-Baptiste
  irc: jibel
 
 
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Re: vUDS 1403 - Quality Community Roundtable starts in 40 mins!

[Dario Ruellan]

Hi!
Busy lately, but I want to retest LTS on my humble eeePC 1000H to check the
overall experience on that slow hardware. I'm downloading the latest ISO
right now.
Is there anything in special or I just use the system and report back how
it feels?


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Nicholas Skaggs 
nicholas.ska...@canonical.com wrote:

 On 03/11/2014 01:19 PM, Nicholas Skaggs wrote:

 http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22176/quality-
 community-roundtable/

 Join in to discuss whatever's on your mind within quality.

 Nicholas

 Everyone is so quiet :-) If you have anything to discuss, feel free to
 ping via the mailing list. I would like feedback on manual testing the
 images this cycle, so I'll open a thread :-)


 Nicholas

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Alpha 2 test, some thoughts.

[Dario Ruellan]

Just submitted a couple of automatic test. Some notes I wrote while testing:

- System Testing - Some notifications and emergent windows lack focus, and
get hidden behind the main window.

- I have the feeling that key-response of Unity's search is too fast. It
starts searching at the moment I push a key, and keeps searching while I
type. A pause of 1/4 second after every keystroke seems more optimal IMHO.

- Ubuntu Style - Drop down menus: the orange highligh must enforce a white
text color, otherwise it looks out of place.

Worth opening a bug report?
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Re: Work-flow prototype

[Dario Ruellan]

Loved it!
Then, looking again to your 5 steps workflow, you're illustrating the
preferred priority for each bug-pile. NOT the actual bug workflow, but
the preferred workflow as a Papercutter, right?


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella 
es204904...@gmail.com wrote:

  Here it is the explanation: the Bug Stream 
 Maphttps://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/1049082/+attachment/3955080/+files/Bug%20Stream%20Map.pdf
 .

 On the other hand, I expect the One Hundred Papercuts 
 work-flowhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Work-flowto 
 change over time since, rather than details, what's relevant here is the
 main concept.

 If you *wanted to help* improving this prototype work-flow but without
 leaving working in your projects, you can easily reuse the work-flow in
 your desired project and give feedback.

 Just open one of the 
 listshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Work-flowand change, 
 in your web-browser's
 *direction*, hundredpapercuts by the desired project's short name (for
 example, ubuntu).

   https://bugs.launchpad.net/*hundredpapercuts*/+bugs?field.searchtext=...


 Good day  http://youtu.be/bS6B8zC2CNI


 El 20/01/14 16:35, Dario Ruellan wrote:

  Really like the idea. The links to the launchpad lists alone are
 insanely handy.

 I'm also wondering about the order. Waiting to read the proper explanation.

 On Jan 19, 2014 7:36 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella es204904...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Can you make me a *favour*?

 *Next time* you wanted to manage some bugs, please give this little 
 babyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Workflowa
 *try*; and then some (picky) *feedback*.

 Have a nice day 

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Re: Work-flow prototype

[Dario Ruellan]

Really like the idea. The links to the launchpad lists alone are insanely
handy.

I'm also wondering about the order. Waiting to read the proper explanation.

On Jan 19, 2014 7:36 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella es204904...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Can you make me a *favour*?

 *Next time* you wanted to manage some bugs, please give this little 
 babyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Workflowa
 *try*; and then some (picky) *feedback*.

 Have a nice day 

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