Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 04:16:40 PM Robbie Williamson wrote: > On 04/30/2013 03:54 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: > >> Hi Clint > >> > >> On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: > >>> So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link > >>> mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course > >>> the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one > >>> prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating > >>> system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one > >>> that Debian has been reluctant to make. > >> > >> I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a > >> license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. > >> > >> I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support > >> *everyone*.> > > You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in > > multiverse. See DFSG #8. > > > > Scott K > > Sorry, but I'm confused. How do the *Debian* Free Software Guidelines, > specifically #8 [1], apply to this thread? > > -Robbie > > [1] > "#8 License Must Not Be Specific to Debian > > The rights attached to the program must not depend on the program's > being part of a Debian system. If the program is extracted from Debian > and used or distributed without Debian but otherwise within the terms of > the program's license, all parties to whom the program is redistributed > should have the same rights as those that are granted in conjunction > with the Debian system." Because, as you surmised in the later mail, I wanted to point to the Ubuntu version and forgot where to find it. Ubuntu archive policy and DFSG are close enough that for most discussions you can s/Debian/Ubuntu/ in your head and it works. Scott K -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:08:21 PM Dave Walker wrote: > On 30 April 2013 21:54, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: > >> Hi Clint > >> > >> On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: > >> > So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link > >> > mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course > >> > the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one > >> > prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating > >> > system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one > >> > that Debian has been reluctant to make. > >> > >> I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a > >> license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. > >> > >> I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support > >> *everyone*.> > > You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in > > multiverse. See DFSG #8. > > > > Scott K > > Hi, > > You raise a valid concern, but I feel it is unfounded. > > Clint made reference to the exception for system libraries. The > agreement that James makes reference to is an additional assurance > that we wanted to obtain. However, for Ubuntu package licence > distribution it is not relevant and is specifically not a an > additional licence. > > Thanks for your concern. Use of the system library exception for openssl is not permitted in Debian and with a few document exceptions Ubuntu follows Debian policy for determining if software is licensed appropriately for Main/Universe. Where is this difference from Debian policy for Ubuntu documented? I don't find it in what I would expect to be the relevant location of the Ubuntu Policy Manual: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-archive.html#s-ulp Scott K -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On 04/30/2013 04:16 PM, Robbie Williamson wrote: > On 04/30/2013 03:54 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: >>> Hi Clint >>> >>> On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one that Debian has been reluctant to make. >>> >>> I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a >>> license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. >>> >>> I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. >> >> You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in >> multiverse. >> See DFSG #8. >> >> Scott K >> > Sorry, but I'm confused. How do the *Debian* Free Software Guidelines, > specifically #8 [1], apply to this thread? > > -Robbie > > [1] > "#8 License Must Not Be Specific to Debian > > The rights attached to the program must not depend on the program's > being part of a Debian system. If the program is extracted from Debian > and used or distributed without Debian but otherwise within the terms of > the program's license, all parties to whom the program is redistributed > should have the same rights as those that are granted in conjunction > with the Debian system." > > Nevermind...I think you meant to point to our Licensing document[1], which does state that any packages in 'main' or 'restricted': "Must not be distributed under a licence specific to Ubuntu. The rights attached to the software must not depend on the program being part of Ubuntu system. So we will not distribute software for which Ubuntu has a "special" exemption or right, and we will not put our own software into Ubuntu and then refuse you the right to pass it on." Thanks for pointing this out Scott. -Robbie [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/licensing -- Robbie Williamson robbiew[irc.freenode.net] "Don't make me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry." -Bruce Banner -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On 04/30/2013 03:54 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: >> Hi Clint >> >> On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: >>> So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link >>> mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course >>> the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one >>> prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating >>> system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one >>> that Debian has been reluctant to make. >> >> I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a >> license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. >> >> I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. > > You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in > multiverse. > See DFSG #8. > > Scott K > Sorry, but I'm confused. How do the *Debian* Free Software Guidelines, specifically #8 [1], apply to this thread? -Robbie [1] "#8 License Must Not Be Specific to Debian The rights attached to the program must not depend on the program's being part of a Debian system. If the program is extracted from Debian and used or distributed without Debian but otherwise within the terms of the program's license, all parties to whom the program is redistributed should have the same rights as those that are granted in conjunction with the Debian system." -- Robbie Williamson robbiew[irc.freenode.net] "Don't make me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry." -Bruce Banner -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On 30 April 2013 21:54, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: >> Hi Clint >> >> On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: >> > So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link >> > mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course >> > the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one >> > prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating >> > system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one >> > that Debian has been reluctant to make. >> >> I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a >> license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. >> >> I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. > > You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in > multiverse. > See DFSG #8. > > Scott K > Hi, You raise a valid concern, but I feel it is unfounded. Clint made reference to the exception for system libraries. The agreement that James makes reference to is an additional assurance that we wanted to obtain. However, for Ubuntu package licence distribution it is not relevant and is specifically not a an additional licence. Thanks for your concern. -- Kind Regards, Dave Walker -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 08:13:42 PM James Page wrote: > Hi Clint > > On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: > > So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link > > mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course > > the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one > > prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating > > system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one > > that Debian has been reluctant to make. > > I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a > license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. > > I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. You'll have to. If the license is Ubuntu specific, it has to go in multiverse. See DFSG #8. Scott K -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On 30/04/13 20:22, Clint Byrum wrote: On 2013-04-30 12:13, James Page wrote: Hi Clint On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one that Debian has been reluctant to make. I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. Nice. Where are license exceptions documented? Seems like they should be at the very least distributed along with MongoDB's source code. Agreed - I'm preparing an upload for 2.4.3 for saucy - I'll add in some comments to debian/copyright. But to be clear - my objective is broader than Ubuntu - I would like to see the licensing exception granted in the stock MongoDB license. Cheers James -- James Page Ubuntu Core Developer Debian Maintainer james.p...@ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
On 2013-04-30 12:13, James Page wrote: Hi Clint On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one that Debian has been reluctant to make. I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. Nice. Where are license exceptions documented? Seems like they should be at the very least distributed along with MongoDB's source code. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
Hi Clint On 30/04/13 18:38, Clint Byrum wrote: So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one that Debian has been reluctant to make. I raised this directly with 10gen last cycle; they granted Ubuntu a license exception so that we could enable SSL support with OpenSSL. I want to see if we can get this generically expanded to support *everyone*. -- James Page Ubuntu Core Developer Debian Maintainer james.p...@ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
Excerpts from James Page's message of 2013-04-30 05:22:31 -0700: > Hi List > > MongoDB is becoming a popular core technology for Ubuntu Server, both in > its own right as a scalable, nosql database to support massive data > storage, and as a supporting technology for two other key projects; > OpenStack Ceilometer and Juju. > > Both Ceilometer and Juju will most likely be included in Ubuntu main for > Saucy so I'm proposing that we review MongoDB with the intent of > including it in Ubuntu main as well, where it will receive the full > attention of the Ubuntu Security Team for security updates and have > increased focus from the Ubuntu Server Team for important bug fixes etc... > > For Saucy, this would mean supporting the shipped release of MongoDB > (probably 2.4.x) for 9 months; this gets more challenging for 14.04 > where the support lifetime of the release is 5 years (with at least two > years of aggressive security and functional bug fixes to get people to > 16.04). We should apply for a minor release exception from the > technical board so we can ship point releases from upstream during the > lifetime of 13.10 and 14.04. > > We should also look at improving the support for non-x86 architectures; > specifically armhf which will be important for Ubuntu Server in > hyperscale ARM server deployments. This work would be upstreamed where > possible. > > I'd also like to see if we can work with 10gen on the MongoDB license to > allow us to enable SSL support in MongoDB upstream in Debian (and in > other distros). This will allow us to decrease the packaging delta > between Ubuntu and Debian. > Just for reference, 10gen has already made it clear in their public bug tracker that they believe one needs to get in touch with their sales department if they want a license exception: https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/SERVER-8886 So, one could argue that the current Ubuntu packages, which do link mongodb to OpenSSL, are violating the AGPL license. There is of course the special exception for system libraries, but that requires that one prove OpenSSL is "a major essential component of the specific operating system on which the executable work runs". Not a huge stretch, but one that Debian has been reluctant to make. Seems like a simple way forward would be to add gnutls support to MongoDB so that this becomes a non-issue. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Next Ubuntu Server Meeting == 2013-05-14 at 1600 UTC
Just an fyi that the next Ubuntu Server meeting will be Tuesday 2013-05-14 at 1600 UTC. The wiki[0] has also been updated. Also we have moved the Ubuntu Server blog to a new home with a more fitting URL. The new blog is at: http://www.ubuntuserver.org/ The wiki[0] has also been updated. Apologies for not being regular on the blog posts or meeting minutes. Hopefully we will be better at this in the saucy cycle. [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ Thanks, -- Antonio Rosales Ubuntu Server & Cloud Workloads Canonical Ltd -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
[vUDS Blueprint 13.10] Server support for 12.04.3/3.8 kernel
Hi List During the last 6 months, we shipped 12.04.2, the most recent point release for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. This included the new hardware enablement kernel from quantal (3.5) which is great; however this update (which was opt-in) broke quite a few DKMS packages which are popular with server users; I specifically worked on openvswitch and iscsitarget but I'm aware of other impacts. I think that we should try to deal with this more pro-actively for 12.04.3 which will include the hardware enablement kernel from raring (3.8). This has some nice features including native VXLAN support which will be interesting to OpenStack Havana Quantum users. So for 12.04.3 I propose we undertake the following server team activities: 1) As soon as the HWE 3.8 kernel is available (which I think should be soon/already), we regression test all server related DKMS packages; we need a list of these - I'll start with: iscsitarget openvswitch Bugs should be raise for any failures introduced by the new kernel version. 2) Fix bugs; this might actually mean introducing a new upstream version of a DKMS based package. Specifically I'd like to see if we could introduce a new openvswitch stable release; 1.4.x is going to get extremely distro patch heavy to fully support the 3.8 kernel (which makes me very uncomfortable), whereas 1.9.0 (the next stable release) already supports up to 3.8. This might mean introducing a parallel 1.9.0 package alongside the 1.4.x package we already have. The objective of this work is to ensure that server users have a well documented and smooth upgrade path to using the 3.8 hardware enablement kernel on Ubuntu 12.04. Anyone want to add more packages to that list to test/fix? Cheers James -- James Page Ubuntu Core Developer Debian Maintainer james.p...@ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
[vUDS Blueprint 13.10] MongoDB into Ubuntu main
Hi List MongoDB is becoming a popular core technology for Ubuntu Server, both in its own right as a scalable, nosql database to support massive data storage, and as a supporting technology for two other key projects; OpenStack Ceilometer and Juju. Both Ceilometer and Juju will most likely be included in Ubuntu main for Saucy so I'm proposing that we review MongoDB with the intent of including it in Ubuntu main as well, where it will receive the full attention of the Ubuntu Security Team for security updates and have increased focus from the Ubuntu Server Team for important bug fixes etc... For Saucy, this would mean supporting the shipped release of MongoDB (probably 2.4.x) for 9 months; this gets more challenging for 14.04 where the support lifetime of the release is 5 years (with at least two years of aggressive security and functional bug fixes to get people to 16.04). We should apply for a minor release exception from the technical board so we can ship point releases from upstream during the lifetime of 13.10 and 14.04. We should also look at improving the support for non-x86 architectures; specifically armhf which will be important for Ubuntu Server in hyperscale ARM server deployments. This work would be upstreamed where possible. I'd also like to see if we can work with 10gen on the MongoDB license to allow us to enable SSL support in MongoDB upstream in Debian (and in other distros). This will allow us to decrease the packaging delta between Ubuntu and Debian. I've CC'ed Eliot and Matt from 10gen; please feel free to chip in as representatives of MongoDB upstream. It would also be great if you could attend the vUDS session once its agreed and scheduled. So - what do people think? Cheers James -- James Page Ubuntu Core Developer Debian Maintainer james.p...@ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
CFT - 13.05 vUDS - Cloud & Server Track
Hi All, [ This is Cross-Posted, pleased limit replies to ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com. Thanks ] Now Raring Ringtail (13.04) is firmly out of the release door, we must once again begin to switch our attention to the next development series - which will become 13.10, and is codenamed the Saucy Salamander. We experimented with a mid-point virtual UDS during the raring cycle just gone, and it was a great success. We will therefore be conducting this next formal UDS in a similarly virtual manner. From the perspective of blueprints, there is very little variance to that of a previous in-person UDS. It will be held the week commencing 13th May 2013 - in a pure online/virtual manner. It is useful to register for the event, even if not planning to attend. The details are best described on the dedicated site[0]. There will be two vUDS's during the cycle, to help with greater collaboration. This one's primary objective is to set NEW work, with the next one, being a review and potential course correction on blueprints - with the expectation that some new variance will be introduced. As with Raring, this is a non-LTS (Long Term Support) release - but it is the final one before the next scheduled LTS release. This means that, in line with Ubuntu's spirit, we want to continue the trend of strength through innovation but also work on polishing existing feature set. This will help to help create a solid base for the next LTS. If you wish to raise a blueprint, I would ask that it is first submitted to the ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list for discussion. Ideally following this abstract example: ... To: ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [vUDS blueprint 13.10] Scale out 'sl' I would like to make the popular command line larting utility fully lart 2.0 compliant, by levering some of the recent developments in scale out lart technology. This can be implemented in a number of ways, such as upstream multi-threading support, xinet or upstart event based initialisation. I think it would also be interesting to explore if 'sl' can be better leveraged using cloud-init. Note: I would be willing to volunteer to draft this blueprint, and potentially work on work items created. Using the following template is also encouraged, as that is what will be required on the blueprint Summary [GOAL] The quantifiable and “tangible” deliverable [RATIONALE] Why are we doing this work. Whiteboard [USER STORIES] As a [PERSON], I want to [DO SOMETHING] so that [SOMETHING HAPPENS] Be sure to link a persona with a role (ie Andrew is a OpenStack Dev) [ASSUMPTIONS] State any information that is a prerequisite, needs to be done, or how development will occur. [RISKS] Any issues that may block development [IN SCOPE] Work that is achievable (given current information) for this cycle [OUT OF SCOPE] Work we know that is not accomplish this cycle [USER ACCEPTANCE] How we know when this feature is complete [RELEASE NOTE/BLOG] What would you say about this when it’s done ... To be able to have greater scale out support, there will be two track leads. These will be myself (Daviey Walker) and Antonio Rosales. If you have any questions, or would rather not raise your topic on the list but would still like it considered for inclusion - please email Antonio Rosales & Daviey Walker (dave.wal...@canonical.com). [0] http://uds.ubuntu.com/register/ [1] https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-1305 Thanks -- Kind Regards, Dave Walker Engineering Manager, Ubuntu Server -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
