Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Luke Yelavich
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:43:18PM EST, Scott Lavender wrote:
> Essentially, the Gnome desktop environment (Gnome2 or gnome-panels) as we
> know it will not be included in Oneiric Ocelot [1].  We are not ditching
> Gnome, it is being taken away from us.  We need to find a different desktop
> environment.

This I need to correct. In no way shape or form is the classic GNOME desktop 
being removed from oneiric at all, it will be still available in universe if 
people want it, however its less and less likely to be maintained upstream, so 
you may be able to use it for one, maybe 2 cycles without it starting to bit 
rot, but I do think a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Luke

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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Ronan Jouchet
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Louie Queral  wrote:
> example screen of my windows desktop. simple, clean, and inviting.
> we have the same basic concept with a gnome interface as well, no doubt.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Before we ditch gnome, let's see what we can do with it first. For
>> instance have we ever though of bundling rocket dock, or another desktop mod
>> as the default theme?
>>
>>  That's essentially what I did with my windows system, I took out the task
>> bar using rocket dock and I only have a docklet on the buttom of my screen.
>>
>> It maximizes space, and it just makes the screen easy to look at. Let's
>> not be too quick on blowing off a very well though out gui
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ricardo Lameiro 
>> Sender: ubuntu-studio-devel-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:16:50
>> To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical
>> Discussion
>> Reply-To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical Discussion
>>        
>> Cc: C K
>> Subject: Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and
>>        Studiousers workflow.
>>
>> About XFCE and lightweigth.
>> I think XFCE lighter than Gnome classic. Also thunar as a lot of nice
>> features for images (mass rename :D ).
>> ohhh, and it has a control panel :D
>>
>>
>> 2011/4/11 Ricardo Lameiro :
>> > Yes.
>> > Check the magazine they do.
>> > They are trying to show designers that they can use free software to
>> > do good work.
>> >
>> > I know them personally Ricardo and Ana, we are from the same town.
>> > They are designers. From what I talked with Ricard, he seems to be
>> > very interested on interaction design.
>> >
>> > 2011/4/11 C K :
>> >> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Ricardo Lameiro
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>> I like the idea of a XFCE shift.
>> >>>
>> >>> I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop
>> >>
>> >> Well, I'm unsure of how "lightweight" it is anymore. But it will
>> >> surely offer a more smooth transition for Studio users.
>> >>
>> >>> but with all the
>> >>> capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
>> >>> people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
>> >>> this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
>> >>> more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
>> >>> his/her work.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
>> >>> (http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
>> >>> graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
>> >>> to help on the design effort.
>> >>
>> >> In what way do you think they would want to help with design? Do you
>> >> know them?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> -Cory K.

Cory, I question your doubts about Unity. Yes, Unity does some neat
things for maximized applications, but I don't think it is an
inherently inferior WM for workflows with a lot of windows like in our
creative world.
I personally like Unity more and more, and think it deserves to be
considered as default for Studio:
 1. it's great
 2. it means less specificities compared to vanilla ubuntu
 3. concerning performance and the impact of a full-blown compiz on
audio latency, we'd need benchmarks before assessing anything; do we
have these? And Unity 2D (compiz-less) could be an interesting
middleground

Cheers,
Ronan

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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Scott Lavender
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:24 PM,  wrote:

> Before we ditch gnome, let's see what we can do with it first. For instance
> have we ever though of bundling rocket dock, or another desktop mod as the
> default theme?
>
>  That's essentially what I did with my windows system, I took out the task
> bar using rocket dock and I only have a docklet on the buttom of my screen.
>
> It maximizes space, and it just makes the screen easy to look at. Let's not
> be too quick on blowing off a very well though out gui
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> ---
>
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>

Louie,

This is not about having a bar or not having a bar.

Essentially, the Gnome desktop environment (Gnome2 or gnome-panels) as we
know it will not be included in Oneiric Ocelot [1].  We are not ditching
Gnome, it is being taken away from us.  We need to find a different desktop
environment.

One thing we need to keep in mind however, Ubuntu Studio must use a desktop
environment that is hosted in official repository because of the automated
buildd system that creates the Ubuntu Studio ISO image.

I feel that XFCE has more positives and fewer negatives that other desktop
environments available.  Ricardo has provided several of the positives, but
I can post some of the others if anyone is interested.

XFCE +1 from me.

[1]
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-10-will-not-ship-with-classic-gnome-desktop/
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Ricardo Lameiro
It is not a bad idea, but the default / classic doesnt look it will be
maintained in the ubuntu repositories in the near future.
About using only a dock, It is not a bad idea, provided there is a way
to see the system load :D

2011/4/11 C K :
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM,   wrote:
>> Before we ditch gnome, let's see what we can do with it first. For instance 
>> have we ever though of bundling rocket dock, or another desktop mod as the 
>> default theme?
>>
>>  That's essentially what I did with my windows system, I took out the task 
>> bar using rocket dock and I only have a docklet on the buttom of my screen.
>>
>> It maximizes space, and it just makes the screen easy to look at. Let's not 
>> be too quick on blowing off a very well though out gui
>>
>
> This is pretty much what I proposed in my 1st email. (maybe you didn't
> follow the screenshot links on your Blackberry?)
>
> --
> -Cory K.
>
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread C K
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM,   wrote:
> Before we ditch gnome, let's see what we can do with it first. For instance 
> have we ever though of bundling rocket dock, or another desktop mod as the 
> default theme?
>
>  That's essentially what I did with my windows system, I took out the task 
> bar using rocket dock and I only have a docklet on the buttom of my screen.
>
> It maximizes space, and it just makes the screen easy to look at. Let's not 
> be too quick on blowing off a very well though out gui
>

This is pretty much what I proposed in my 1st email. (maybe you didn't
follow the screenshot links on your Blackberry?)

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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE andStudiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread louiethecuban
Before we ditch gnome, let's see what we can do with it first. For instance 
have we ever though of bundling rocket dock, or another desktop mod as the 
default theme?

 That's essentially what I did with my windows system, I took out the task bar 
using rocket dock and I only have a docklet on the buttom of my screen.

It maximizes space, and it just makes the screen easy to look at. Let's not be 
too quick on blowing off a very well though out gui
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Ricardo Lameiro 
Sender: ubuntu-studio-devel-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:16:50 
To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical 
Discussion
Reply-To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical Discussion

Cc: C K
Subject: Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and
Studiousers workflow.

About XFCE and lightweigth.
I think XFCE lighter than Gnome classic. Also thunar as a lot of nice
features for images (mass rename :D ).
ohhh, and it has a control panel :D


2011/4/11 Ricardo Lameiro :
> Yes.
> Check the magazine they do.
> They are trying to show designers that they can use free software to
> do good work.
>
> I know them personally Ricardo and Ana, we are from the same town.
> They are designers. From what I talked with Ricard, he seems to be
> very interested on interaction design.
>
> 2011/4/11 C K :
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Ricardo Lameiro
>>  wrote:
>>> I like the idea of a XFCE shift.
>>>
>>> I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop
>>
>> Well, I'm unsure of how "lightweight" it is anymore. But it will
>> surely offer a more smooth transition for Studio users.
>>
>>> but with all the
>>> capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
>>> people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
>>> this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
>>> more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
>>> his/her work.
>>>
>>> Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
>>> (http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
>>> graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
>>> to help on the design effort.
>>
>> In what way do you think they would want to help with design? Do you know 
>> them?
>>
>> --
>> -Cory K.
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Fagote / Contrafagote
> Bassoon / Contra-bassoon
> http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro
>



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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Ricardo Lameiro
About XFCE and lightweigth.
I think XFCE lighter than Gnome classic. Also thunar as a lot of nice
features for images (mass rename :D ).
ohhh, and it has a control panel :D


2011/4/11 Ricardo Lameiro :
> Yes.
> Check the magazine they do.
> They are trying to show designers that they can use free software to
> do good work.
>
> I know them personally Ricardo and Ana, we are from the same town.
> They are designers. From what I talked with Ricard, he seems to be
> very interested on interaction design.
>
> 2011/4/11 C K :
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Ricardo Lameiro
>>  wrote:
>>> I like the idea of a XFCE shift.
>>>
>>> I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop
>>
>> Well, I'm unsure of how "lightweight" it is anymore. But it will
>> surely offer a more smooth transition for Studio users.
>>
>>> but with all the
>>> capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
>>> people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
>>> this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
>>> more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
>>> his/her work.
>>>
>>> Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
>>> (http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
>>> graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
>>> to help on the design effort.
>>
>> In what way do you think they would want to help with design? Do you know 
>> them?
>>
>> --
>> -Cory K.
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>>
>
>
>
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>



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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Ricardo Lameiro
Yes.
Check the magazine they do.
They are trying to show designers that they can use free software to
do good work.

I know them personally Ricardo and Ana, we are from the same town.
They are designers. From what I talked with Ricard, he seems to be
very interested on interaction design.

2011/4/11 C K :
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Ricardo Lameiro
>  wrote:
>> I like the idea of a XFCE shift.
>>
>> I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop
>
> Well, I'm unsure of how "lightweight" it is anymore. But it will
> surely offer a more smooth transition for Studio users.
>
>> but with all the
>> capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
>> people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
>> this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
>> more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
>> his/her work.
>>
>> Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
>> (http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
>> graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
>> to help on the design effort.
>
> In what way do you think they would want to help with design? Do you know 
> them?
>
> --
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread C K
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Ricardo Lameiro
 wrote:
> I like the idea of a XFCE shift.
>
> I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop

Well, I'm unsure of how "lightweight" it is anymore. But it will
surely offer a more smooth transition for Studio users.

> but with all the
> capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
> people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
> this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
> more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
> his/her work.
>
> Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
> (http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
> graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
> to help on the design effort.

In what way do you think they would want to help with design? Do you know them?

-- 
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread Ricardo Lameiro
I like the idea of a XFCE shift.

I lightweight, unobtrusive and streamlined desktop, but with all the
capabilities needed. Xfce has a big "fan base" and i don't see why
people would oppose the change from Unity / Gnome 3 to XFCE. Both of
this new "shells" rely heavily on 3D rendering technology and demand
more system resources. Resources that a "studio user" needs to do
his/her work.

Cory, there are people like Ricardo LaFuente and Ana Carvalho
(http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org) editors of the Libre
graphics magazine http://libregraphicsmag.com , that maybe would want
to help on the design effort.

Cya


2011/4/10  :
> I happen to hate the ubuntu netbook gui, the buttons are clunky and get in 
> the way in my opinion. As a producer, I find myself working with tons of 
> files, and, like a desk, I want to be able to visualize those files as simply 
> and easily as possible.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: C K 
> Sender: ubuntu-studio-devel-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:18:13
> To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical 
> Discussion
> Reply-To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical Discussion
>        
> Subject: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio
>        users workflow.
>
> Hello folks. For folks who don't know me I'm Cory Kontros.
> (launchpad.net/~coryisatm) Former lead on Ubuntu Studio.
>
> I took a needed break for a bit but have now volunteered to help
> handle Ubuntu Studio's UI layout for the future. (with Scott's
> blessing)
>
>
> So lets kick things off. Here's how I see things.
>
> There's alot of flux going on in computer UI design. GNOME, Canonical
> (w/Unity) and Google (w/Android) all look to be shifting to this
> "single app focus" kinda design. Where visually, you don't see much
> going on but the currently focused app. KDE and OSX are currently the
> most traditional.
>
> I don't see this fitting for Studio users workflows.
>
> So, in looking at our options (considering most of our apps are GTK)
> XFCE seems like the best move. I know there are other WM options to
> consider but they all feel weaker in comparison to the XFCE option.
>
> Xubuntu has done some great work lately. Without seeing it I proposed
> to Scott some options that can very close to what they currently do.
> Xubuntu does: 1 panel across the top and AWN as a launcher on the
> bottom. (http://imagebin.org/146291) I propose simply using Avant
> Window Navigator.
> (http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png) It
> currently can handle 90% of what a panel can do. But that 10% is
> important. Namely the absence of a network manager app. I've seen some
> in the past but nothing current.
>
> A bit radical but its something I hope to prove works nicely with testing.
>
>
> Now please feel free to discuss whatever. This is by no means a done
> deal but it is currently the direction agreed upon at the last -dev
> meeting.
>
> --
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studiousers workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread louiethecuban
I happen to hate the ubuntu netbook gui, the buttons are clunky and get in the 
way in my opinion. As a producer, I find myself working with tons of files, 
and, like a desk, I want to be able to visualize those files as simply and 
easily as possible.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: C K 
Sender: ubuntu-studio-devel-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 17:18:13 
To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical 
Discussion
Reply-To: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical Discussion

Subject: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio
users workflow.

Hello folks. For folks who don't know me I'm Cory Kontros.
(launchpad.net/~coryisatm) Former lead on Ubuntu Studio.

I took a needed break for a bit but have now volunteered to help
handle Ubuntu Studio's UI layout for the future. (with Scott's
blessing)


So lets kick things off. Here's how I see things.

There's alot of flux going on in computer UI design. GNOME, Canonical
(w/Unity) and Google (w/Android) all look to be shifting to this
"single app focus" kinda design. Where visually, you don't see much
going on but the currently focused app. KDE and OSX are currently the
most traditional.

I don't see this fitting for Studio users workflows.

So, in looking at our options (considering most of our apps are GTK)
XFCE seems like the best move. I know there are other WM options to
consider but they all feel weaker in comparison to the XFCE option.

Xubuntu has done some great work lately. Without seeing it I proposed
to Scott some options that can very close to what they currently do.
Xubuntu does: 1 panel across the top and AWN as a launcher on the
bottom. (http://imagebin.org/146291) I propose simply using Avant
Window Navigator.
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png) It
currently can handle 90% of what a panel can do. But that 10% is
important. Namely the absence of a network manager app. I've seen some
in the past but nothing current.

A bit radical but its something I hope to prove works nicely with testing.


Now please feel free to discuss whatever. This is by no means a done
deal but it is currently the direction agreed upon at the last -dev
meeting.

-- 
-Cory K.

-- 
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Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.

2011-04-10 Thread C K
Hello folks. For folks who don't know me I'm Cory Kontros.
(launchpad.net/~coryisatm) Former lead on Ubuntu Studio.

I took a needed break for a bit but have now volunteered to help
handle Ubuntu Studio's UI layout for the future. (with Scott's
blessing)


So lets kick things off. Here's how I see things.

There's alot of flux going on in computer UI design. GNOME, Canonical
(w/Unity) and Google (w/Android) all look to be shifting to this
"single app focus" kinda design. Where visually, you don't see much
going on but the currently focused app. KDE and OSX are currently the
most traditional.

I don't see this fitting for Studio users workflows.

So, in looking at our options (considering most of our apps are GTK)
XFCE seems like the best move. I know there are other WM options to
consider but they all feel weaker in comparison to the XFCE option.

Xubuntu has done some great work lately. Without seeing it I proposed
to Scott some options that can very close to what they currently do.
Xubuntu does: 1 panel across the top and AWN as a launcher on the
bottom. (http://imagebin.org/146291) I propose simply using Avant
Window Navigator.
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png) It
currently can handle 90% of what a panel can do. But that 10% is
important. Namely the absence of a network manager app. I've seen some
in the past but nothing current.

A bit radical but its something I hope to prove works nicely with testing.


Now please feel free to discuss whatever. This is by no means a done
deal but it is currently the direction agreed upon at the last -dev
meeting.

-- 
-Cory K.

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Re: Ubuntustudio Natty GlobalJam tests

2011-04-10 Thread Alessio Igor Bogani
Ronan,

2011/4/9 Ronan Jouchet :
[...]
>>>     sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency
>>> linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency
>>>     The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>>>     linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency : Depends:
> linux-headers-2.6.38-8 but
>>> it is not installable
>>>   Alessio, could you update your ppa?
>> Could you install linux-headers-2.6.38-8 manualy and report result,
> please?
> I wasn't able to install these version of the headers, it seems they are
> no longer in the repos. Am I wrong? Could somebody help me?

You should update your system.

The linux-headers-2.6.38-8 package is provided by Ubuntu archive (it
is built from -generic and -lowlatency uses it):
http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/linux-headers-2.6.38-8

If updating system doesn't resolve the issue could you provide me the
output of dpkg -l | grep linux, please?

Ciao,
Alessio

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