Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 13:15:36 -0800 (PST), Len Ovens wrote: I have found that the only problem with Ubuntu is that it is the easiest Linux to access and so gets more newy users than Arch (for example). I have found that more than 50% of all ubuntu user problems are using Ardour/Jack with a USB mic and internal playback. I follow the Linux audio related mailing lists and this month I didn't read anything about USB microphones, there was just a Calf discussion, but there were also other threads, e.g. somebody experienced the same I Certainly there is a difference between mailing lists and irc. The number of people that appear on IRC say "hello" or "help" and then shortly there after vanish is high. There are some who actually ask a question before vanishing but normally within 5 min before anyone might have a chance to say anything. The new generation of computer user does not have the expectation of using email to mailing list and would rather use a facebook like chat interface to talk with someone "right now" when they are hav9ing the problem. So you don't see these people on mailing lists. Of the people who have had problems with more than one audio interface at a time, none of them anounced their problem in those terms. I generally found out that was the problem by remote trouble shooting what looked like another problem. It seems people expect to just plug in another audio interface and use it along with what they already have (something that is now possible since the 18.10 version of controls was released). In general, pro-audio doesn't work that way (with any OS) due to sync problems. macos does handle it (if not in "pro" manner) in much the same way as the new controls does, with SRC on the USB device. I'm an Ardour user and most issues I experience with Ardour aren't caused by plugins. As probably most musicians I'm neither using an USB They should not be if you are using Ardour as comes from a distro and so uses the system libs. mic, nor an integrated audio device. Most issues I experience are saying "as probably most musicians" aren't using USB mics may be true... most new starting audio users are and many more want to use the speakers they already have hooked up to their computer, not hook up something they don't have to the new 2x2 USB audio device they have. One can no longer buy a plain stereo amp of good quality for about $100. Instead they want to sell you a "receiver" for $500 that has no analog inputs anymore of course the new generation doesn't understand audio plugs/lines/levels etc anyway. What most musicians used even 5 years ago does not at all give a good idea of what is normal today. This is even more the case those of limited budget (teens?) who are just starting out. caused by Ardour, it's not nearly as good programmed as claimed. For example, the only reason for dropping my CRTs and buying a LCD display was, that Ardour is unable to provide readable font sizes and at the same time windows that fit into the screen resolution. First I bought an inexpensive LCD display, but soon I noticed that I need an expensive LCD display, so I bought an expensive one. I use $88CAD walmart specials on Ardour with no problem. In general I don't even need my glasses like I do for reading. YMMV... The real problem with Ardour aren't Calf plugins and USB mic users. The Certainly not, I agree. That is why we worked hard to make the use of USB mics easy and almost automatic (plug it in and it just shows up on the jack graph). Linux audio does not handle these situations well (ALSA, pulse, jack, pipewire all included). The new -controls was our attempt at making the audio infrastructure much more PNP. Ardour is not the best tool for all uses but it is one of the top applications in audio. We do want it to work. It would be nice to see zynaddsubfx with it's new gui as well. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 13:15:36 -0800 (PST), Len Ovens wrote: >I have found that the only problem with Ubuntu is that it is the >easiest Linux to access and so gets more newy users than Arch (for >example). I have found that more than 50% of all ubuntu user problems >are using Ardour/Jack with a USB mic and internal playback. Hi, I follow the Linux audio related mailing lists and this month I didn't read anything about USB microphones, there was just a Calf discussion, but there were also other threads, e.g. somebody experienced the same I experienced with Ardour. Resizing windows stopped working from one release to another. I'm an Ardour user and most issues I experience with Ardour aren't caused by plugins. As probably most musicians I'm neither using an USB mic, nor an integrated audio device. Most issues I experience are caused by Ardour, it's not nearly as good programmed as claimed. For example, the only reason for dropping my CRTs and buying a LCD display was, that Ardour is unable to provide readable font sizes and at the same time windows that fit into the screen resolution. First I bought an inexpensive LCD display, but soon I noticed that I need an expensive LCD display, so I bought an expensive one. Don't get me wrong, I still continue using Ardour and other Linux audio software, but for some software I maintain my own packages for Ubuntu as well as for Arch Linux. It's an annoying roleplaying of upgrading and downgrading packages and keeping intact soname dependencies + consistently upgrading of hardware. Actually I've done most of my "hobby" recordings with an iPad 2 and yesterday I purchased an Apple iPad Pro 12,9“ (3. Generation) Wi-Fi 1 TB, that hopefully allows "professional" recordings, too. While I experienced tons of pitfalls using the iPad 2, I decided against _another_ upgrade of my Linux PC hardware and instead to order a new iPad. Most people are unable to poo money. I like the idea of open source, unfortunately the hardware required for open source solutions is more expensive than proprietary gear. You can't use the new GNOME with old hardware etc. pp., or I for example own a Roland GR-55 and a Behringer V-Amp. An equivalent to each of those devices would be a MOD with the plugins we know. Even the Roland solution is less expensive, than the MOD and provides a way better self-consistent solution, let alone audio quality of the effects and modeling. The Behringer V-Amp is even more cheaper, still provides better audio effects and modeling than Linux plugins, but it is missing MIDI and has got an unusable expression pedal and user interface, something the Roland isn't missing. The real problem with Ardour aren't Calf plugins and USB mic users. The problem is that the idea of open source is good, but for several reasons, in short, a missing infrastructure, missing money and missing knowhow, it can't compete with modern proprietary solutions. It's a dilemma, but it is as it is. It makes more sense to mention that Ardour is very good for some kinds of audio production and unusable for other kind of audio production, instead of claiming that Ardour is the best software ever, but it suffers from odd plugins and Ubuntu users using USB mics. Regards, Ralf -- Kitty, Daisy & Lewis - The Game Is On https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL6Cuo0YPlo Kitty, Daisy & Lewis - Down On My Knees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD86aRsJ1N0 Kitty, Daisy & Lewis - Black Van https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lL--_xzNLI -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: On 11/24/18 8:32 PM, Len Ovens wrote: On Sat, 24 Nov 2018, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: You all might have notice the "fail mail" we just got for our ISO. This is due to the new version of calf deprecating calf-ladspa per the developer. Ross or Len: Would you mind removing the calf-ladspa package from the seed? I would except, uh... I've never done it. XD That said, I'm very happy to see this progress. 0.90.0 dropped a year ago and was a major change for that package, and 0.90.1 dropped in July as a bugfix. Hopefully this will make the Ardour people happy as well since the old version was messing with compatibility. The ardour people would be happy if this was released to 16.04 - 18.19... don't hold your breath. Getting calf backported to Xenial is not likely. I have had backports waiting for sponsorship for years. Nobody seems interested in backports anymore. Exactly, however, from RG's perspective, he should never have to tell a ubuntu user to remove this or that package or put up with sw where there is an available upgrade upstream. so keeping Ardour devs happy is pretty much an impossible dream. It is best to be aware that RG (at least) does not like ubuntu and assumes any trouble he has with a ubuntu user is ubuntu's fault. I have found that the only problem with Ubuntu is that it is the easiest Linux to access and so gets more newy users than Arch (for example). I have found that more than 50% of all ubuntu user problems are using Ardour/Jack with a USB mic and internal playback. We could provide it in a ppa, (probably also with a new metapackage), and advise those interested in using the ppa that lmms will be removed. The PPA route would probably be best. Alternatively, we could go for an SRU (Stable Release Update) with the Those are more trouble than they are worth and might break someones important project :P best not to. Ubuntu is not a rolling release and people choose it for that reason. I was not sugesting we change things, just trying to explain (badly) that pleasing Ardour devs is not likely so don't worry to much about that. (They would have you remove all Calf plugins anyway) Sorry for the confusion. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On 11/24/18 8:32 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sat, 24 Nov 2018, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > >> You all might have notice the "fail mail" we just got for our ISO. This >> is due to the new version of calf deprecating calf-ladspa per the >> developer. Ross or Len: Would you mind removing the calf-ladspa package >> from the seed? I would except, uh... I've never done it. XD >> >> That said, I'm very happy to see this progress. 0.90.0 dropped a year >> ago and was a major change for that package, and 0.90.1 dropped in July >> as a bugfix. Hopefully this will make the Ardour people happy as well >> since the old version was messing with compatibility. > > The ardour people would be happy if this was released to 16.04 - > 18.19... don't hold your breath. > > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > Getting calf backported to Xenial is not likely. I have had backports waiting for sponsorship for years. Nobody seems interested in backports anymore. We could provide it in a ppa, (probably also with a new metapackage), and advise those interested in using the ppa that lmms will be removed. Alternatively, we could go for an SRU (Stable Release Update) with the "Conflicts: calf-ladspa", and the meta package update to drop lmms? But this is probably harsh for lmms users with calf installed, and might not get approved by the release team. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018, Ross Gammon wrote: I was just going to look into that. Thank you. Germinate output shows that it is lmms that is pulling calf-ladspa in: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.disco/all We will have to temporarily drop lmms. Looking at the Debian lmms bugs, it is possible that a newer lmms doesn't do this (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=870473). Need to confirm. It is about time LMMS caught up with the world anyway. ladspa and vst2 are both officially depricated. (Stienberg is even sending takedown notices to devs making new vst2 plugins) LMMS without Calf will look broken to a lot of people. csladspa should also either get updated or dropped aparently the problem was fixed upstream in csound on December 15, 2017. I will drop lmms temporarily from the seed. It is pretty easy to do for We should leave then dropped till they add lv2 hosting support. Anyway, thankyou. I would have had trouble figuring this stuff out. I am not very good with packaging. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: You all might have notice the "fail mail" we just got for our ISO. This is due to the new version of calf deprecating calf-ladspa per the developer. Ross or Len: Would you mind removing the calf-ladspa package from the seed? I would except, uh... I've never done it. XD That said, I'm very happy to see this progress. 0.90.0 dropped a year ago and was a major change for that package, and 0.90.1 dropped in July as a bugfix. Hopefully this will make the Ardour people happy as well since the old version was messing with compatibility. The ardour people would be happy if this was released to 16.04 - 18.19... don't hold your breath. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
I was just going to look into that. Germinate output shows that it is lmms that is pulling calf-ladspa in: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.disco/all We will have to temporarily drop lmms. Looking at the Debian lmms bugs, it is possible that a newer lmms doesn't do this (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=870473). Need to confirm. I will drop lmms temporarily from the seed. It is pretty easy to do for next time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Seeds https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio On 11/24/18 7:46 PM, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > Hey all, > > You all might have notice the "fail mail" we just got for our ISO. This > is due to the new version of calf deprecating calf-ladspa per the > developer. Ross or Len: Would you mind removing the calf-ladspa package > from the seed? I would except, uh... I've never done it. XD > > That said, I'm very happy to see this progress. 0.90.0 dropped a year > ago and was a major change for that package, and 0.90.1 dropped in July > as a bugfix. Hopefully this will make the Ardour people happy as well > since the old version was messing with compatibility. > > Thanks, > Erich > > Cheers, Ross signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
[ubuntu-studio-devel] New version of Calf plugins (and a failed ISO build)
Hey all, You all might have notice the "fail mail" we just got for our ISO. This is due to the new version of calf deprecating calf-ladspa per the developer. Ross or Len: Would you mind removing the calf-ladspa package from the seed? I would except, uh... I've never done it. XD That said, I'm very happy to see this progress. 0.90.0 dropped a year ago and was a major change for that package, and 0.90.1 dropped in July as a bugfix. Hopefully this will make the Ardour people happy as well since the old version was messing with compatibility. Thanks, Erich signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
