Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:41 PM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: AWN (avant-window-navigator) is the only one I mentioned. Though really, whatever best replaces a panel, actually, whatever is the best balance for us is what we should use. I use AWN and Docky on different systems. AWN works nicer without compositing IMO. I also wanted to look into stacking applets. (awn has one: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tSxyVygKnu0/TT-8DRg0wlI/AUQ/PEsFN3eVdDQ/s320/stack_applet.png ) See if its something we can populate with task focused apps. Like we do with the Studio menus. Anyone else have ideas here? -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel I did some testing with AWN, Cairo, Docky, and Wbar. I need to look at the results as I was busy doing something else. Although I can say that wbar didn't work at all for me and that AWN had the most dependencies to install, almost orders of magnitude more than Cairo or Docky. But I did manage to get this created. This is my idea for the dock but requires getting the dock's (whichever we choose) developer to work with us. http://mousike.dyndns.org/dock/ I am very interested if anyone has opinions about my suggestion for the dock. I hope this webpage explains it clearly. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
So since no competing proposals against using XFCE have been put forth I'll consider it a done deal. We're going with XFCE. Over the next few weeks I'll be studying the technical aspects of making this happen. Setting themes, working on a default UI, (I'll just use Xubuntu's for now) making new packages and testing upgrade paths. I worry this will break existing Studio users setups. Or at least add alot of cruft. I'll also be reaching out to the Xubuntu folks. I hope to set up a PPA that can be added on top of a base CLI install for testing. Any interesting ideas from other XFCE distros are welcome. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
At this stage I would want to contact Puredune, since they have a lot of experience with XFCE. On 04/15/2011 05:52 PM, C K wrote: So since no competing proposals against using XFCE have been put forth I'll consider it a done deal. We're going with XFCE. Over the next few weeks I'll be studying the technical aspects of making this happen. Setting themes, working on a default UI, (I'll just use Xubuntu's for now) making new packages and testing upgrade paths. I worry this will break existing Studio users setups. Or at least add alot of cruft. I'll also be reaching out to the Xubuntu folks. I hope to set up a PPA that can be added on top of a base CLI install for testing. Any interesting ideas from other XFCE distros are welcome. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
Not to say, live images. On 04/15/2011 06:31 PM, ailo wrote: At this stage I would want to contact Puredune, since they have a lot of experience with XFCE. On 04/15/2011 05:52 PM, C K wrote: So since no competing proposals against using XFCE have been put forth I'll consider it a done deal. We're going with XFCE. Over the next few weeks I'll be studying the technical aspects of making this happen. Setting themes, working on a default UI, (I'll just use Xubuntu's for now) making new packages and testing upgrade paths. I worry this will break existing Studio users setups. Or at least add alot of cruft. I'll also be reaching out to the Xubuntu folks. I hope to set up a PPA that can be added on top of a base CLI install for testing. Any interesting ideas from other XFCE distros are welcome. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:52 AM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: So since no competing proposals against using XFCE have been put forth I'll consider it a done deal. We're going with XFCE. Over the next few weeks I'll be studying the technical aspects of making this happen. Setting themes, working on a default UI, (I'll just use Xubuntu's for now) making new packages and testing upgrade paths. I worry this will break existing Studio users setups. Or at least add alot of cruft. I'll also be reaching out to the Xubuntu folks. I hope to set up a PPA that can be added on top of a base CLI install for testing. Any interesting ideas from other XFCE distros are welcome. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel Cory, Do have an idea of which dock you are considering. I would really like to talk to the developer (whomever it is) about my idea of a context area for work flows. My idea is pretty simple but slightly hard to explain. The dock would be divide into a left static section and a right dynamic or contextual work flow section. The left side would contain all non-work flow launchers that would remain there always visible. For example, these might include Firefox, Gedit, Terminal, Nautilus. The first launcher on the right side would contain a context or work flow selection launcher..more of a pick list really. You pick which work flow you want and this controls what other launchers on the right side are visible. For example, if you wanted to record audio then you pick the record audio work flow from the selector and qjackctl, Ardour, Hydrogen, Rakarrack, and guitarix launchers might be visible. If you were to pick mastering then perhaps qjackctl, ardour, and jamin would be visible. We could ship a sane default of both work flow selections and applications for each selection. However, users should be able to easily modify them and add new ones. The upshot to all of this is that you will not need to drill down menus, nor even need menus. Well, conventional menus. Additionally, you will not load up your dock with a bagillion launchers and have to try to sort through them. When you wish to perform a certain task, you adjust the selection on the right side of the dock and only those launchers that support your workflow are visible. Add to that that users can modify or add or remove both selections and applications and I think this is a win. Whew. Not that I said all that, Cory do you have a feeling which dock you are considering? ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:52 AM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: So since no competing proposals against using XFCE have been put forth I'll consider it a done deal. We're going with XFCE. Over the next few weeks I'll be studying the technical aspects of making this happen. Setting themes, working on a default UI, (I'll just use Xubuntu's for now) making new packages and testing upgrade paths. I worry this will break existing Studio users setups. Or at least add alot of cruft. I'll also be reaching out to the Xubuntu folks. I hope to set up a PPA that can be added on top of a base CLI install for testing. Any interesting ideas from other XFCE distros are welcome. Cory, Do have an idea of which dock you are considering. I would really like to talk to the developer (whomever it is) about my idea of a context area for work flows. My idea is pretty simple but slightly hard to explain. The dock would be divide into a left static section and a right dynamic or contextual work flow section. The left side would contain all non-work flow launchers that would remain there always visible. For example, these might include Firefox, Gedit, Terminal, Nautilus. The first launcher on the right side would contain a context or work flow selection launcher..more of a pick list really. You pick which work flow you want and this controls what other launchers on the right side are visible. For example, if you wanted to record audio then you pick the record audio work flow from the selector and qjackctl, Ardour, Hydrogen, Rakarrack, and guitarix launchers might be visible. If you were to pick mastering then perhaps qjackctl, ardour, and jamin would be visible. We could ship a sane default of both work flow selections and applications for each selection. However, users should be able to easily modify them and add new ones. The upshot to all of this is that you will not need to drill down menus, nor even need menus. Well, conventional menus. Additionally, you will not load up your dock with a bagillion launchers and have to try to sort through them. When you wish to perform a certain task, you adjust the selection on the right side of the dock and only those launchers that support your workflow are visible. Add to that that users can modify or add or remove both selections and applications and I think this is a win. Whew. Not that I said all that, Cory do you have a feeling which dock you are considering? AWN (avant-window-navigator) is the only one I mentioned. Though really, whatever best replaces a panel, actually, whatever is the best balance for us is what we should use. I use AWN and Docky on different systems. AWN works nicer without compositing IMO. I also wanted to look into stacking applets. (awn has one: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tSxyVygKnu0/TT-8DRg0wlI/AUQ/PEsFN3eVdDQ/s320/stack_applet.png) See if its something we can populate with task focused apps. Like we do with the Studio menus. Anyone else have ideas here? -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
Couldn't see if anyone had said anything about it, but there is a audio distro that uses XFCE and is a live distro as well. It's called Puredyne and can be found here http://puredyne.org/download.html. There is a live CD and a live DVD to choose from. Since we are considering both XFCE and the live medium, Puredyne aught to serve as a decent example. On 04/10/2011 11:18 PM, C K wrote: Hello folks. For folks who don't know me I'm Cory Kontros. (launchpad.net/~coryisatm) Former lead on Ubuntu Studio. I took a needed break for a bit but have now volunteered to help handle Ubuntu Studio's UI layout for the future. (with Scott's blessing) So lets kick things off. Here's how I see things. There's alot of flux going on in computer UI design. GNOME, Canonical (w/Unity) and Google (w/Android) all look to be shifting to this single app focus kinda design. Where visually, you don't see much going on but the currently focused app. KDE and OSX are currently the most traditional. I don't see this fitting for Studio users workflows. So, in looking at our options (considering most of our apps are GTK) XFCE seems like the best move. I know there are other WM options to consider but they all feel weaker in comparison to the XFCE option. Xubuntu has done some great work lately. Without seeing it I proposed to Scott some options that can very close to what they currently do. Xubuntu does: 1 panel across the top and AWN as a launcher on the bottom. (http://imagebin.org/146291) I propose simply using Avant Window Navigator. (http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png) It currently can handle 90% of what a panel can do. But that 10% is important. Namely the absence of a network manager app. I've seen some in the past but nothing current. A bit radical but its something I hope to prove works nicely with testing. Now please feel free to discuss whatever. This is by no means a done deal but it is currently the direction agreed upon at the last -dev meeting. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
I for one, have spent the past ten years using the Gnome interface and feel very comfortable in it. So much so that I anticipate UI annoyances to drive me away from Ubuntu if they stick with Ubiquity. Sorry if that's a rant/uncompromising attitude, I just wanted to share with the group my honest and heartfelt feelings on the subject (and yes I have been giving Ubiquity a steady test run over the last year or so). XFCE does not seem like it has anything to offer other than old/reliable code. It's not even that much lighter than Gnome from what I understand last time I looked into it. - Eric Hedekar On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Tim Pitman tapitma...@gmail.com wrote: Here's another vote for XFCE On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 5:05 PM, ailo ailo...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/11/2011 07:26 PM, ailo wrote: To test Gnome3 with Ubuntu ScottL tipped us about this one: http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/ This didn't work for me. I'm moving on to Fedora Alpha release and will give that a testrun with some multimedia programs instead. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Eric Hedekar aftertheb...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE does not seem like it has anything to offer other than old/reliable code. That's a pretty strong reason for choosing it actually. That, and the fact that it uses GTK will make it a less jarring switch than GNOME shell or Canonical's Unity. It's resource intensiveness is not a factor as it's equal to or less than current GNOME2. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
Don't know how much more RAM different destops would add. How much is Xubuntu compared with Ubuntu Studio? And how much would Ubuntu Studio be if we only changed the WM, nothing else? I for one, don't expect that any WM will be that resource intensive by itself, that it would make a really big difference in RAM usage. Just compare Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio. Regular Ubuntu Natty uses quickly up to 2GB of RAM, while UBuntu Studio Natty uses about 1GB, both using the classic Gnome Desktop. Using Unity instead of Gnome does not impact on that from what I can see, so how much is the WM actually doing? On 04/12/2011 12:36 PM, C K wrote: On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Eric Hedekar aftertheb...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE does not seem like it has anything to offer other than old/reliable code. That's a pretty strong reason for choosing it actually. That, and the fact that it uses GTK will make it a less jarring switch than GNOME shell or Canonical's Unity. It's resource intensiveness is not a factor as it's equal to or less than current GNOME2. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
The french website about producing music with Linux distribution, LinuxMao, suggest and explain how to configure Xfce instead of Gnome for Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio. In France, most of multimedia producers (pro, hobbyists) use Xfce as main desktop. And a lot of specialized multimedia distributions for live performance and installations use Xfce, like Puredyne. It's light and work great in production, even for long sessions and/or with important loads. As I always said about UI design for Ubuntu Studio (I used to be one of the first contributors), the main focus should be on a simple, light and efficient desktop, in order to not spend to much time on that point.Then, the most important should be to focus on applications choice and packaging, and the possibility to use it to produce without tweaking (simple and fast instal). But I know that for a lot of people it is quite important to propose a beautiful desktop. Xfce allow both, without yoo much effects, imho. So, it seems like averybody on the mailing is ok for the switch to Xfce, let's stop chatting and let's start to work on that point, to get ready as soon as possible. For the dock, why not simply use the simple and very good Docky?? It has all we need and is one of the most easy for a day to day use. Chatting with Docky team would be great to know if they could add some docklets like Menu, a better network manager, etc... I would finish this answer with a question : for the beta, Ubuntu proposed a live dvd for testing and install. Why don't we provide that ?? If necessary, I can post the question on an other email. Toine -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
RE: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
-Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow. Don't know how much more RAM different destops would add. How much is Xubuntu compared with Ubuntu Studio? And how much would Ubuntu Studio be if we only changed the WM, nothing else? I for one, don't expect that any WM will be that resource intensive by itself, that it would make a really big difference in RAM usage. Just compare Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio. Regular Ubuntu Natty uses quickly up to 2GB of RAM, while UBuntu Studio Natty uses about 1GB, both using the classic Gnome Desktop. Using Unity instead of Gnome does not impact on that from what I can see, so how much is the WM actually doing? -- Ailo ** I feel like a dead horse is being flogged here. PC systems these days are getting fed more and more ram with each update/upgrade. So the amount of ram usage the WM uses is almost irrelevant now considering anyone serious enough to be running Ubuntu Studio will more than likely have 4GB or more ram anyway. Regards Chris Jones -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
On 04/11/2011 07:26 PM, ailo wrote: To test Gnome3 with Ubuntu ScottL tipped us about this one: http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/ This didn't work for me. I'm moving on to Fedora Alpha release and will give that a testrun with some multimedia programs instead. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Ubuntu Studio 11.10 UI discussion. GNOME3, Unity, XFCE and Studio users workflow.
Here's another vote for XFCE On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 5:05 PM, ailo ailo...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/11/2011 07:26 PM, ailo wrote: To test Gnome3 with Ubuntu ScottL tipped us about this one: http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/ This didn't work for me. I'm moving on to Fedora Alpha release and will give that a testrun with some multimedia programs instead. -- ailo -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
