Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On Jan 29, 2008 12:42 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:59:02 +0100 > Hartmut Noack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > We must distiguish IP/licence-issues from conflicts with patents. > > > > MOST PATENTS THAT TROUBLE LINUX_USERS WORLD-WIDE ARE VOID IN EUROPE!! > > > > Anybody wonders why the heck those french Mandriva-Folks dare to ship > > a Distro WITH MP3-support o.o.t.b. ??? > > I do wonder. > Afaik the mp3 patents are not software but patents on algorithms and > are valid in europe, but IANAL. > > There also is a difference between mp3 encoding and decoding. > The companies holding patents on the decoding haven't enforced their > patents, that's why there are so many apps that allow you to play back > mp3s by default but not to convert to mp3. > > Best regards > Philipp > Yes in media in general there tends to be a norm that is "let people playback the files" and when they like them "let's charge them to create them". Which I believe it is really sad. Luis de Bethencourt > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users > -- Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá luisbg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPG: B0ED1326 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:59:02 +0100 Hartmut Noack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We must distiguish IP/licence-issues from conflicts with patents. > > MOST PATENTS THAT TROUBLE LINUX_USERS WORLD-WIDE ARE VOID IN EUROPE!! > > Anybody wonders why the heck those french Mandriva-Folks dare to ship > a Distro WITH MP3-support o.o.t.b. ??? I do wonder. Afaik the mp3 patents are not software but patents on algorithms and are valid in europe, but IANAL. There also is a difference between mp3 encoding and decoding. The companies holding patents on the decoding haven't enforced their patents, that's why there are so many apps that allow you to play back mp3s by default but not to convert to mp3. Best regards Philipp -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On Jan 29, 2008 10:59 AM, Hartmut Noack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Haig Dedeyan schrieb: > > On January 28, 2008 08:57:02 pm Haig Dedeyan wrote: > > >> > >> VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in linux. > >> > >> I'll repeat the Cinelerra story here even though a search will also > >> yield the story. > >> > >> Cinelerra required some non-free components to build against. Even when > >> addressing that it had about 1/3rd of its files unlicensed and or > >> licenses that contradicted one another. > >> > >> -Cory > > True for VST - Seinberg/Yamaha do NOT licence the SDK in a way that is > compatible with GPL-Software. Discussing that item with JAD-people I > learned, that Steinberg do not do so because they are "evil" but because > they are unaware of the issue. They distribute the SDK as "freeware" and > there could be a chance to convince them to release it with an > Debian-approvable licence if someone they have serious reason to listen > to pushes them a bit... > > Regarding Video-Codecs and the like: > > We must distiguish IP/licence-issues from conflicts with patents. > > MOST PATENTS THAT TROUBLE LINUX_USERS WORLD-WIDE ARE VOID IN EUROPE!! > > Anybody wonders why the heck those french Mandriva-Folks dare to ship a > Distro WITH MP3-support o.o.t.b. ??? > > > This situation will not be solved by backing down every time - at least > the prpblems should be addressed properly: to provide ISO-Downloads for > people from countries free of software-patents and others for people in > countries that suffer from enforcable sw-patents could be a start. > And I do not see a loud protesting from Canonical (and/or Novell, RH, > you name it) against these absurd and destructive laws. > > > > Even if legal issues are in the way, perhaps an icon on the desktop popping > > up > > a readme would help directing people where to go to get the missing > > packages, > > something like what Audacity has done with LAME within its preferences. > > Would be good for starters also. > > > > I believe Ubuntu or Kubuntu installer will ask the user if they want to > > download LAME during the installation process. > > > > Regarding VST, or the need to get vst plugins to work, perhaps this would > > be > > a none issue if there were good quality ladspa/dssi synths/FX plugins > > available. > > > Vey well put!!! I back this absolutely! Let us support those who work on > free alternatives and use the stuff that is out there - it can do much > more then all those ST-addicts can see at first glance!!! That's the key and goal of all this. Free/Open source alternatives. > > > best regards > > HZN > http://lapoc.de > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFHnvjl1Aecwva1SWMRAvB+AJ9Bi+0F5U2s0C6ImmPxqIWbC7bldACffphs > ea9o8Hyjwk4vXrMRaRlDr98= > =Nyul > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users > -- Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá luisbg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPG: B0ED1326 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Haig Dedeyan schrieb: > On January 28, 2008 08:57:02 pm Haig Dedeyan wrote: >> >> VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in linux. >> >> I'll repeat the Cinelerra story here even though a search will also >> yield the story. >> >> Cinelerra required some non-free components to build against. Even when >> addressing that it had about 1/3rd of its files unlicensed and or >> licenses that contradicted one another. >> >> -Cory True for VST - Seinberg/Yamaha do NOT licence the SDK in a way that is compatible with GPL-Software. Discussing that item with JAD-people I learned, that Steinberg do not do so because they are "evil" but because they are unaware of the issue. They distribute the SDK as "freeware" and there could be a chance to convince them to release it with an Debian-approvable licence if someone they have serious reason to listen to pushes them a bit... Regarding Video-Codecs and the like: We must distiguish IP/licence-issues from conflicts with patents. MOST PATENTS THAT TROUBLE LINUX_USERS WORLD-WIDE ARE VOID IN EUROPE!! Anybody wonders why the heck those french Mandriva-Folks dare to ship a Distro WITH MP3-support o.o.t.b. ??? This situation will not be solved by backing down every time - at least the prpblems should be addressed properly: to provide ISO-Downloads for people from countries free of software-patents and others for people in countries that suffer from enforcable sw-patents could be a start. And I do not see a loud protesting from Canonical (and/or Novell, RH, you name it) against these absurd and destructive laws. > Even if legal issues are in the way, perhaps an icon on the desktop popping > up > a readme would help directing people where to go to get the missing packages, > something like what Audacity has done with LAME within its preferences. Would be good for starters also. > I believe Ubuntu or Kubuntu installer will ask the user if they want to > download LAME during the installation process. > > Regarding VST, or the need to get vst plugins to work, perhaps this would be > a none issue if there were good quality ladspa/dssi synths/FX plugins > available. Vey well put!!! I back this absolutely! Let us support those who work on free alternatives and use the stuff that is out there - it can do much more then all those ST-addicts can see at first glance!!! best regards HZN http://lapoc.de -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnvjl1Aecwva1SWMRAvB+AJ9Bi+0F5U2s0C6ImmPxqIWbC7bldACffphs ea9o8Hyjwk4vXrMRaRlDr98= =Nyul -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On Monday 28 January 2008 19:52:23 D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> On Monday 28 January 2008, Cory K. wrote:
> > VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in
> > linux.
>
> Looking at the README in the latest dssi-vst, it doesn't look like that's
> still necessarily true:
>
> dssi-vst: a DSSI plugin wrapper for VST plugins
> ===
>
> [...]
>
> The 0.5 release was the first to officially support the VeSTige
> VST-compatibility header from Javier Serrano Polo (see
> vestige/aeffectx.h). With this header, you no longer need to obtain
> the official VST SDK in order to build dssi-vst. Many thanks to
> Javier for publishing this fine piece of work.
>
> [...]
>
> Though this plugin requires WINE, and that sort of kills the "painless"
> objective. I've only managed to see this work once, but it did work well
> when it worked.
>
> Forgive me if this whole issue has been beaten to death ten times over, and
> everybody knows dssi-vst is evil or whatever. I really don't know a VST
> from a VCR myself. Everything I know about plugins comes from LADSPA and
> DSSI, which I think are endlessly cool, even while I read Windows and Mac
> people constantly ranting about how crappy they are.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre
---
Hi Michael.
There has been a lot of mention of { dssi-vst } on LAU over the past 5 months.
01-07-2008 Chris Cannam posted 0.6 is now available. <--
http://dssi.sourceforge.net/
01-07-2008 Hermann Meyer posted: <
that it ran fine on his debian/sid system
and that it opens rosegarden for vst plugins.
01-23-2008 Ardour2.2 <--
is almost there.
01-26-2008 Post by Thorsten Wilms Jack syn manager proposal
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/jack-synthesizer-manager-proposal/
I believe cinelerra is already jack smart. I suppose that would mean that the
clock keeper would be jack? Thus everthing that is a jack resident would be
in sync to that clock? If Ubuntu Studio could pull this altogether it would
be a blockbuster. However getting past the xrun problem that many users give
up in despair may be the challenge. I do not know what kind of cpu and I/o
loads this would cause especially if video is true HD and the audio is at a
pro level. I suspect that set control {lights, event triggering, etc. }
features would need to wait for a future release. Then getting a number of
experts from the various disciplines together to pull this off.
Hope this helps
Tom
--
Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list
Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On January 28, 2008 08:57:02 pm Haig Dedeyan wrote: > Haig Dedeyan wrote: > > You only outlined 20 hours of your day. You still have another 4 hours to > > help people :-) > > > > > > FWIW, I think ubuntu studio is a very solid distro compared to others > > that I tried so kudos to the whole team. > > > > > > Perhaps adding cinelerra and a very painless way of having vst plugins > > would throw this distro miles ahead of everyone else. > > > > Haig > > Cinelerra and VST support would have been added to many free distros > years ago. There are legal issues that stop it from shipping by default > or getting them the repos at all. Developers seldom don't do things > because they are dicks. They are users like you and would love to > provide these things. There are often issues users just don't understand > or refuse to accept. > > VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in linux. > > I'll repeat the Cinelerra story here even though a search will also > yield the story. > > Cinelerra required some non-free components to build against. Even when > addressing that it had about 1/3rd of its files unlicensed and or > licenses that contradicted one another. Just a complete mess of a > situation that nobody but it's own community should be asked to clean > up. So even while straitening out some non-free depends, the messy > license issue stopped everything. > > > FYI - Cinelerra3 is at the beginning of development and hopes to address > these issues. > > -Cory Thanks for the feedback. Not to wander off too much but nix is almost there with a kick ass multimedia distro. Michael & the gang have done a great job with Rosegarden, Hydrogen is very good especially with the sample quality of their kits, Ubuntu Studio is very very solid, and video editing/compositing is catching up thanks Cinelerra & Jashaka. Even if legal issues are in the way, perhaps an icon on the desktop popping up a readme would help directing people where to go to get the missing packages, something like what Audacity has done with LAME within its preferences. I believe Ubuntu or Kubuntu installer will ask the user if they want to download LAME during the installation process. Regarding VST, or the need to get vst plugins to work, perhaps this would be a none issue if there were good quality ladspa/dssi synths/FX plugins available. Haig -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
On Monday 28 January 2008, Cory K. wrote: > VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in linux. Looking at the README in the latest dssi-vst, it doesn't look like that's still necessarily true: dssi-vst: a DSSI plugin wrapper for VST plugins === [...] The 0.5 release was the first to officially support the VeSTige VST-compatibility header from Javier Serrano Polo (see vestige/aeffectx.h). With this header, you no longer need to obtain the official VST SDK in order to build dssi-vst. Many thanks to Javier for publishing this fine piece of work. [...] Though this plugin requires WINE, and that sort of kills the "painless" objective. I've only managed to see this work once, but it did work well when it worked. Forgive me if this whole issue has been beaten to death ten times over, and everybody knows dssi-vst is evil or whatever. I really don't know a VST from a VCR myself. Everything I know about plugins comes from LADSPA and DSSI, which I think are endlessly cool, even while I read Windows and Mac people constantly ranting about how crappy they are. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Cinelerra and VST support
Haig Dedeyan wrote: > You only outlined 20 hours of your day. You still have another 4 hours to > help > people :-) > > > FWIW, I think ubuntu studio is a very solid distro compared to others that I > tried so kudos to the whole team. > > > Perhaps adding cinelerra and a very painless way of having vst plugins would > throw this distro miles ahead of everyone else. > > Haig Cinelerra and VST support would have been added to many free distros years ago. There are legal issues that stop it from shipping by default or getting them the repos at all. Developers seldom don't do things because they are dicks. They are users like you and would love to provide these things. There are often issues users just don't understand or refuse to accept. VSTs are completely proprietary and licenses are needed to use it in linux. I'll repeat the Cinelerra story here even though a search will also yield the story. Cinelerra required some non-free components to build against. Even when addressing that it had about 1/3rd of its files unlicensed and or licenses that contradicted one another. Just a complete mess of a situation that nobody but it's own community should be asked to clean up. So even while straitening out some non-free depends, the messy license issue stopped everything. FYI - Cinelerra3 is at the beginning of development and hopes to address these issues. -Cory -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
