Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Fòram na Gàidhlig]

Sgrìobh Colin Watson na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 16:32:
> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 05:03:25PM +0200, Danilo Šegan wrote:
>> Note that it may be hard to get a locale into GNU libc,
> 
> Is this still the case?  glibc's maintenance is a lot more functional
> and welcoming now than when you last dealt with it, I suspect ...
> 
> (It's usually best to get things as far upstream as possible.)
> 

If you want to go reall really upstram, have a look at:

http://cldr.unicode.org/development/adding-locales

This data can then also be used to help create a glibc locale.

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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2017-06-06 18:31, Michael Bauer wrote:
That, sadly was not our experience. I filed a bug in 2013 and the 
rudeness aside, we were pointed back at Ubuntu.


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64478


I think that has nothing to do with poor responsiveness or rudeness. The 
order of the entries in the gb symbols file isn't what's controlling the 
order in which the entries appear in the installer or in Text Entry. 
(And even if it did, changing the gb file to fit Scottish Gaelic users 
at the expense of English speaking users wouldn't make sense.)


Creating a variant with "Scottish Gaelic" in the name, and which loads 
the most suitable variant for Scottish Gaelic users, might be a step in 
the right direction.


OTOH, that might lead to a similar reaction as I got when adding a 
layout for a minority language in Sweden, i.e. put away to "extras".


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98177

And if so, the additional variant wouldn't make things easier...

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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Michael Bauer]

That, sadly was not our experience. I filed a bug in 2013 and the 
rudeness aside, we were pointed back at Ubuntu.


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64478

Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 17:26:

On 2017-06-06 17:55, Michael Bauer wrote:

does anyone actually know who is responsible for keyboard layouts in
the world of Linux distros?


This is the upstream git repository:

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/

Bugs with suggested changes can be filed here:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config

The maintainers are currently responding quickly if there is a good 
patch attached to the bug report. This is the latest bug I filed there 
myself:


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100959




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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2017-06-06 17:55, Michael Bauer wrote:

does anyone actually know who is responsible for keyboard layouts in
the world of Linux distros?


This is the upstream git repository:

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/

Bugs with suggested changes can be filed here:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config

The maintainers are currently responding quickly if there is a good 
patch attached to the bug report. This is the latest bug I filed there 
myself:


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100959

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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2017-06-06 17:32, Colin Watson wrote:

On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 05:03:25PM +0200, Danilo Šegan wrote:

Note that it may be hard to get a locale into GNU libc,


Is this still the case?  glibc's maintenance is a lot more
functional and welcoming now than when you last dealt with it, I
suspect ...


I'd say that the responsiveness of the localedata maintainers goes up 
and down over time. It may have improved, but if you are unlucky it may 
take 'forever'.


The latest example I'm aware of is . 
Patch posted upstream 6 months ago, and still not even a response. Bad.



(It's usually best to get things as far upstream as possible.)


Indeed, and in any case trying to get a new locale accepted by glibc 
should always be step #1. Patching locales in Debian and/or Ubuntu 
should be a last resort.


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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Michael Bauer]

Since this came up, does anyone actually know who is responsible for 
keyboard layouts in the world of Linux distros? I'm asking because while 
I can no longer recall the details, we spent several years trying to 
figure out where the (less-than-ideal) default keyboard layout for gd-GB 
was coming from - and I think in the end we just gave up as there did 
not seem to be a place where you could file a bug and get it fixed.


So where would you go to commit a layout these days and/or set the 
default for a locale?


Michael

Sgrìobh Danilo Šegan na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 16:03:

  - keyboard layout so you can enter the translations more efficiently



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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Colin Watson]

On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 05:03:25PM +0200, Danilo Šegan wrote:
> Note that it may be hard to get a locale into GNU libc,

Is this still the case?  glibc's maintenance is a lot more functional
and welcoming now than when you last dealt with it, I suspect ...

(It's usually best to get things as far upstream as possible.)

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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Danilo Šegan]

Hi Demuxer,

It would be great to see Kaqchikel as one of Ubuntu languages!

On top of the pointers others have shared, here're a few more.

The most important things to start on are:

 - locale for the language
 - fonts if anything special is needed for display purposes (it seems
generic multilingual Latin Unicode fonts like Ubuntu font or DejaVu
font should work well)
 - keyboard layout so you can enter the translations more efficiently

Long ago when I started on Serbian translations, I've gone through the
entire dance, and presented that at GUADEC.  Here are the still
relevant notes if you are starting from scratch:

  http://kvota.net/guadec/localised-desktop-talk/

Note that it may be hard to get a locale into GNU libc, but Debian has
an extended locales package that is much easier to get into.

I can help create a language on Launchpad using the ISO-639-3 code
"cak", which will allow you to start translations.  I've entered the
few basic bits, but I still need the following:

 - Name of the language as spelled in Kaqchikel
 - Plural forms: basically, do any words change in a more complex
manner when they are next to a number, or is it a simple,
English/Spanish-like singular and plural (eg. "1 thing", "7 thing*s*";
Serbian and most Slavic languages have a few more forms, eg. we
basically say "21 thing" and not "21 things"). 

You should also set up a team as explained on

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam

page.

У пет, 02. 06 2017. у 13:49 -0600, Demuxer @gmail пише:
> 
> What is the first step?
> Is it possible to have a branch from the SPANISH - LATAM ? the
> translators are better with spanish than english, of course this
> would change in another Ubuntu Release, but we prefer 'spanish' as a
> base.

You can use Launchpad to help you by using another language as a guide.

Make sure you add all the languages that you wish to translate to or
use as a guide at
  https://translations.launchpad.net/people/+me/+editlanguages

Then browse to a translation page that you'd like to contribute to, and
select "Spanish" as the guide language just before the translations
really start.

Eg. for the unity-greeter, which is the login screen that shows up when
you turn Ubuntu on, you can go to:

https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/unity-greeter/+pots/unity-greeter/cak/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=all&field.alternative_language=es&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all

(if you hit a timeout, retry a few times since this functionality is
not often used and Launchpad needs to load it into cache for it to
perform better).

Once you have a locale created and installed on the system, you can
also make the system default to Kaqchikel and fall back to Spanish. 
Using LANG or LANGUAGE environment variables can help with that.


Also, be aware that you'd only be submitting suggestions until you
finish with setting up a team and it gets assigned official status.

Good luck, and welcome aboard!

Cheers,
Danilo


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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Fòram na Gàidhlig]

> On 2017-06-02 21:49, Demuxer @gmail wrote:
>> Hi team, Im from Guatemala and we have an interested group in create
>> a new language option/pack.
>> I use to translate some english strings and know how those process
>> works https://launchpad.net/~demuxer but now at Ubuntu Guatemala
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GuatemalanTeam we have a large mayan people
>> using Kaqchikel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaqchikel_people and we
>>  would like to create this translation,

What you need for satarting any translation project is the locale code -
 according to Wikipedia, it is "cak".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaqchikel_language

>> Is it possible to have a branch from the SPANISH - LATAM ? the
>> translators are better with spanish than english, of course this
>> would change in another Ubuntu Release, but we prefer 'spanish' as a
>> base.
> 
> No, the translation infrastructure of Ubuntu does not allow for such an
> arrangement. The original language is English, and all translations are
> based on English directly.

What your translators can do is download the Spanish translation files
too for reference.

> Also, I would recommend anyone starting out with a new language
translation for Ubuntu to focus on the GNOME desktop. GNOME desktop is
going to be the default in Ubuntu in the near future. Therefore, I would
recommend you to join the GNOME Translation project,
https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject/ and start there.


Agreed. Also, if this is your first localization effort, I recommend
that you find a small project to get your feet wet. Ubuntu is huge and
can be quite overwhelming.



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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Josef Andersson]

Den 2017-06-03 kl. 14:00, skrev ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:49:28 -0600
> From: "Demuxer @gmail" 
> To: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: New translation for Ubuntu
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi team, Im from Guatemala and we have an interested group in create a new
> language option/pack.
> I use to translate some english strings and know how those process works
> https://launchpad.net/~demuxer but now at Ubuntu Guatemala
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GuatemalanTeam we have a large mayan people using
> Kaqchikel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaqchikel_people and we would like
> to create this translation,
> 
> What is the first step?
> Is it possible to have a branch from the SPANISH - LATAM ? the translators
> are better with spanish than english, of course this would change in
> another Ubuntu Release, but we prefer 'spanish' as a base.
> 
> Thanks for your reply
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 22:28:01 +0200
> From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson 
> To: Demuxer , ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: New translation for Ubuntu
> Message-ID: <4fb55452-d37a-51b0-b92d-ef1ae43f6...@ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hi!
> 
> On 2017-06-02 21:49, Demuxer @gmail wrote:
>> Hi team, Im from Guatemala and we have an interested group in create
>> a new language option/pack.
>> I use to translate some english strings and know how those process
>> works https://launchpad.net/~demuxer but now at Ubuntu Guatemala 
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GuatemalanTeam we have a large mayan people 
>> using Kaqchikel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaqchikel_people and we
>>  would like to create this translation,
>>
>> What is the first step?
> 
> First I'd like to emphasize that translating Ubuntu into a new language 
> is quite a big undertaking. This check list may give you an idea of 
> what's involved:
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam
> 
> One thing I'd recommend is that you talk with some members of the 
> Spanish translators team to get an idea of the amount of work involved 
> to achieve and - not least - maintain sufficient translation coverage to 
> justify the creation of a new language.
> 
> Otherwise, as a direct answer to your question, creating a locale for 
> the new language would probably be step #1.
> 
>> Is it possible to have a branch from the SPANISH - LATAM ? the 
>> translators are better with spanish than english, of course this
>> would change in another Ubuntu Release, but we prefer 'spanish' as a
>> base.
> 
> No, the translation infrastructure of Ubuntu does not allow for such an 
> arrangement. The original language is English, and all translations are 
> based on English directly.
> 

Also, I would recommend anyone starting out with a new language translation for 
Ubuntu to focus on the GNOME desktop. GNOME desktop is going to be the default 
in Ubuntu in the near future. Therefore, I would recommend you to join the 
GNOME Translation project, https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject/ and start 
there.

/Josef

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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Hi!

On 2017-06-02 21:49, Demuxer @gmail wrote:

Hi team, Im from Guatemala and we have an interested group in create
a new language option/pack.
I use to translate some english strings and know how those process
works https://launchpad.net/~demuxer but now at Ubuntu Guatemala 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GuatemalanTeam we have a large mayan people 
using Kaqchikel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaqchikel_people and we

 would like to create this translation,

What is the first step?


First I'd like to emphasize that translating Ubuntu into a new language 
is quite a big undertaking. This check list may give you an idea of 
what's involved:


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam

One thing I'd recommend is that you talk with some members of the 
Spanish translators team to get an idea of the amount of work involved 
to achieve and - not least - maintain sufficient translation coverage to 
justify the creation of a new language.


Otherwise, as a direct answer to your question, creating a locale for 
the new language would probably be step #1.


Is it possible to have a branch from the SPANISH - LATAM ? the 
translators are better with spanish than english, of course this

would change in another Ubuntu Release, but we prefer 'spanish' as a
base.


No, the translation infrastructure of Ubuntu does not allow for such an 
arrangement. The original language is English, and all translations are 
based on English directly.


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