Re: Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
David Planella [2009-12-01 14:18 +0100]: > (I'm CC'ing Martin as the maintainer of pkgbinarymangler, in case he > wants to comment on this. Martin: to give you some context this is about > the question whether -for the sake of consistency and visibility- it > would be possible to add an exception for xubuntu-docs in > pkgbinarymangler to have its translations stripped and imported into > Launchpad, even though it is a universe package.) That can be done easily, of course. I had rather expected that Launchpad wouldn't allow this? The translations.tar.gz is created and uploaded to Rosetta either way, the only thing that doesn't happen for universe packages is the stripping. So if you sorted out the LP side, please poke me, and I'll upload the exception. > Yes, I think with the current infrastructure it still makes sense to > have edu/k/ubuntu-docs in the source package translation space. Would certainly be nice, indeed. Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Adi Roiban wrote: > În data de Ma, 01-12-2009 la 08:24 +, Matthew East a scris: > > Hi, > > > > 2009/11/30 David Planella : > > > We talked to Jim Campbell and decided to move the xubuntu-docs > > > translations out of the Ubuntu distro series and to a separate project > > > in Launchpad. > > > > > > This is due to the fact that the xubuntu-docs package is no longer in > > > main, which is a requirement for translations to be there (and for > > > templates to be updated upon package upload). > > > > Is there any possibility of an exception to this requirement in > > Launchpad? Obviously the translations are still there, they are just > > not being updated, which seems a bit silly. > > If xubuntu-docs package is well maintained, there is no reason not to > have xubuntu-docs in main. > I think xubuntu-docs are in universe because the Xubuntu distribution (and all Xfce packages) are in universe. Jim -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
În data de Ma, 01-12-2009 la 08:24 +, Matthew East a scris: > Hi, > > 2009/11/30 David Planella : > > We talked to Jim Campbell and decided to move the xubuntu-docs > > translations out of the Ubuntu distro series and to a separate project > > in Launchpad. > > > > This is due to the fact that the xubuntu-docs package is no longer in > > main, which is a requirement for translations to be there (and for > > templates to be updated upon package upload). > > Is there any possibility of an exception to this requirement in > Launchpad? Obviously the translations are still there, they are just > not being updated, which seems a bit silly. If xubuntu-docs package is well maintained, there is no reason not to have xubuntu-docs in main. > > The advantages in having translations in a separate branch will be > > mainly for maintainers: they will no longer have to worry about updating > > templates (they'll be updated in Launchpad upon commit) or exporting > > translations (they will be automatically commited to a branch daily) - > > this functionality is not yet available in source packages. > > > > The only disadvantage will be that the translations will not have as > > much visibility as they had inside the Ubuntu distro series in Launchpad > > before. > > This seems to me to be quite a prominent disadvantage. Equally, from > translators' point of view, I think that it's very confusing to have > translations in different places and to have to look outside the > Ubuntu distribution in order to translate Ubuntu native source > packages. It's the same with other native Ubuntu projects - there > doesn't seem to be any consistent rule about whether such projects > should be translated as upstream projects or source packages. > > Having said that, it's the translators who should take a decision > about this. The only thing that concerns me from a documentation team > point of view is consistency: I'm not very happy about a different > approach being taken to xubuntu-docs as to ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs > and edubuntu-docs. I think that we should standardise on a particular > approach, and adopt it. When I last asked about whether it would be > appropriate to move ubuntu-docs translation to a Launchpad project to > take advantage of the automatic import/export features, from memory I > recall that the answer was "no" because of the confusion caused by > having translations in different places in Launchpad. >From my point of view, in an ideal word, xubuntu-docs should be translated alongside the other docs. At least in the last year the xubuntu-docs were not updated and there were no translated html files was shipped with xubuntu-docs. This can be very disappointing for translators as their work is not used. I have talked with Jim Campbell and told me he will rework the current xubuntu-docs and that the new version of xubuntu-docs will be based on the latest ubuntu-docs. I think that we can start building the translations infrastructure in xubuntu-docs project and if everthing is ok we can move them to Ubuntu. For Lucid, Ubuntu translations will only be opened at the end of February. Having xubuntu-docs translations in a separate project will alow us to see and test the translation prior to that date. Also in Ubuntu, you need special permission to download all translations from xubuntu-docs in a single click. Since there are no plans to use the current xubuntu-docs translations templates from Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid, I think hiding them is a reasonable action. > (Incidentally, it seems to me that if translation moves to the project > space rather than the package space, renaming the templates is no > longer necessary.) No need to rename xubuntu-docs if they are hosted in a different project. Since we are going to see a new beginning for xubuntu-doc, having translations in a dedicated project will give us greater flexibility in handling them, as we will not be stuck with the Ubuntu process. As soon as xubuntu-docs translations are well maintained, there is no reason no to have them alongside ubuntu-docs translations. Cheers PS: Maybe we can have a quick chat tomorrow, during the Ubuntu Translations monthly meeting. -- Adi Roiban -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
Hi Matthew, El dt 01 de 12 de 2009 a les 08:24 +, en/na Matthew East va escriure: > Hi, > > 2009/11/30 David Planella : > > We talked to Jim Campbell and decided to move the xubuntu-docs > > translations out of the Ubuntu distro series and to a separate project > > in Launchpad. > > > > This is due to the fact that the xubuntu-docs package is no longer in > > main, which is a requirement for translations to be there (and for > > templates to be updated upon package upload). > > Is there any possibility of an exception to this requirement in > Launchpad? Obviously the translations are still there, they are just > not being updated, which seems a bit silly. > As far as I know, not without changes to the pkgbinarymangler package. When packages are uploaded to the archive and these packages are in main, their translations and templates are extracted and imported to Launchpad by pkgbinarymangler [1]. (I'm CC'ing Martin as the maintainer of pkgbinarymangler, in case he wants to comment on this. Martin: to give you some context this is about the question whether -for the sake of consistency and visibility- it would be possible to add an exception for xubuntu-docs in pkgbinarymangler to have its translations stripped and imported into Launchpad, even though it is a universe package.) The main problem with xubuntu-docs being in universe is the update of templates in Launchpad, which no longer happens automatically when uploading a new package. Now since the templates are already in Launchpad (from the time when xubuntu-docs were in main), another alternative would be to manually upload the templates whenever they change. This could be done by the Rosetta admins or the members of the Ubuntu Translations Coordinators team, but I think it wouldn't be too good to add an additional manual step to the process. Still, I'd like to hear what the translations team and the xubuntu-docs maintainers think of this. > > The advantages in having translations in a separate branch will be > > mainly for maintainers: they will no longer have to worry about updating > > templates (they'll be updated in Launchpad upon commit) or exporting > > translations (they will be automatically commited to a branch daily) - > > this functionality is not yet available in source packages. > > > > The only disadvantage will be that the translations will not have as > > much visibility as they had inside the Ubuntu distro series in Launchpad > > before. > > This seems to me to be quite a prominent disadvantage. Equally, from > translators' point of view, I think that it's very confusing to have > translations in different places and to have to look outside the > Ubuntu distribution in order to translate Ubuntu native source > packages. It is, but in the particular case of Xubuntu none of its packages can be translated in the Ubuntu distribution in Launchpad. Ideally, all packages regardless of the repository they are in should be translatable there. In fact, we also talked about whether we should consider enabling universe translations at UDS, but we decided to defer the discussion until Lucid + 1, as there should be a proper spec for this and as it would be interesting to see how the upstream integration in Launchpad Translations shapes up first. > It's the same with other native Ubuntu projects - there > doesn't seem to be any consistent rule about whether such projects > should be translated as upstream projects or source packages. > I also acknowledge that, but with the current functionality this is left to the maintainer: some enable only translations for the Ubuntu source package and consistently export and commit those in the Launchpad project, whereas others have translations enabled both in the project and in the Ubuntu source package. In this latter case often translators translate it in one of the two places and make use of global suggestions to translate it in the other, or export and upload the PO file there. This obviously requires extra work. Message sharing between projects and source packages might solve this in the future - the Rosetta developers can tell more on if and when this will be implemented. > Having said that, it's the translators who should take a decision > about this. The only thing that concerns me from a documentation team > point of view is consistency: I'm not very happy about a different > approach being taken to xubuntu-docs as to ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs > and edubuntu-docs. I think that we should standardise on a particular > approach, and adopt it. It's the current infrastructure which limits us here, due to the fact that xubuntu-docs is in universe and the way universe translations are handled. I'd be happy to reconsider the move to a separate project if there is a viable alternative to upload new xubuntu-docs templates in Launchpad, so I propose to wait until next week for more feedback before making the final decision. > When I last asked about whether it would be > appropriate to move
Re: Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
Hi, 2009/11/30 David Planella : > We talked to Jim Campbell and decided to move the xubuntu-docs > translations out of the Ubuntu distro series and to a separate project > in Launchpad. > > This is due to the fact that the xubuntu-docs package is no longer in > main, which is a requirement for translations to be there (and for > templates to be updated upon package upload). Is there any possibility of an exception to this requirement in Launchpad? Obviously the translations are still there, they are just not being updated, which seems a bit silly. > The advantages in having translations in a separate branch will be > mainly for maintainers: they will no longer have to worry about updating > templates (they'll be updated in Launchpad upon commit) or exporting > translations (they will be automatically commited to a branch daily) - > this functionality is not yet available in source packages. > > The only disadvantage will be that the translations will not have as > much visibility as they had inside the Ubuntu distro series in Launchpad > before. This seems to me to be quite a prominent disadvantage. Equally, from translators' point of view, I think that it's very confusing to have translations in different places and to have to look outside the Ubuntu distribution in order to translate Ubuntu native source packages. It's the same with other native Ubuntu projects - there doesn't seem to be any consistent rule about whether such projects should be translated as upstream projects or source packages. Having said that, it's the translators who should take a decision about this. The only thing that concerns me from a documentation team point of view is consistency: I'm not very happy about a different approach being taken to xubuntu-docs as to ubuntu-docs, kubuntu-docs and edubuntu-docs. I think that we should standardise on a particular approach, and adopt it. When I last asked about whether it would be appropriate to move ubuntu-docs translation to a Launchpad project to take advantage of the automatic import/export features, from memory I recall that the answer was "no" because of the confusion caused by having translations in different places in Launchpad. (Incidentally, it seems to me that if translation moves to the project space rather than the package space, renaming the templates is no longer necessary.) -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Summary of the the discussions on documentation translation at UDS
Hi all, Here's a summary of some of the topics we talked about and the actions we agreed on when we were discussing translation of documentation at UDS. == Template names == Translation templates in Ubuntu are shown in a big list at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu. As the Launchpad Translations team will be focusing on providing better upstream integration, there will be no changes in terms of how translations are displayed for this cycle. This means that if templates have the same name (as in some of them in kubuntu-docs and ubuntu-docs), they are shown as if they were duplicate, which is confusing for translators e.g.: add-applications add-applications printing printing We decided to prefix those templates with the source package name in order to tell them apart, following the scheme already proposed some time ago and also used in some other packages (e.g. ubiquity-ubuntu-, debian-installer-). This scheme involves prepending the source package name to the template, which using the previous example would be: ubuntu-docs-add-applications kubuntu-docs-add-applications ubuntu-docs-printing kubuntu-docs-printing This will imply no additional work for the maintainers, simply the template name will be renamed in Launchpad (the templates in the source packages can keep their original names, and will be automatically imported to the right template in Launchpad when uploading the package). == Kubuntu docs == We acknowledged the fact that due to lack of time Kubuntu docs translations were not released for Karmic, and before going further, I'd like to thank Richard Johnson and Jonathan Jesse for their work on Kubuntu docs. Some translation teams, notably the Hungarian team, made an extra effort to complete translations for the Kubuntu documentation. Although by Richard and Jonathan's comments the current release needs improvement and presents some bugs, it would be worth adding the translations in a Stable Release Update (SRU). There is an open bug to track this, and we'd like to move this update forward. Is there anything else the translations team can do to prepare the SRU? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-docs/+bug/459476 So far, the obsolete translation templates have been disabled in Launchpad and are not exposed for translations, and the visible ones seem to be up to date. == Xubuntu docs == We talked to Jim Campbell and decided to move the xubuntu-docs translations out of the Ubuntu distro series and to a separate project in Launchpad. This is due to the fact that the xubuntu-docs package is no longer in main, which is a requirement for translations to be there (and for templates to be updated upon package upload). The templates in e.g. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/xubuntu-docs were not up to date and were only there because they hadn't been disabled until now. The advantages in having translations in a separate branch will be mainly for maintainers: they will no longer have to worry about updating templates (they'll be updated in Launchpad upon commit) or exporting translations (they will be automatically commited to a branch daily) - this functionality is not yet available in source packages. The only disadvantage will be that the translations will not have as much visibility as they had inside the Ubuntu distro series in Launchpad before. The translations team will offer any help required in this migration, which will involve: 1. Disabling the xubuntu-docs templates in the Karmic and Jaunty distro series translations in Launchpad (Lucid as well, altough they are not yet visible) 2. Exporting current translations 3. Set up the xubuntu-docs bzr branch for translations (with automatic bzr import and exports) 4. Commit the exported translations to that branch, which will make them available in Launchpad 5. Announce the changes to ubuntu-translators and ubuntu-doc Of these steps Adi tells me he has already completed 1 (for Karmic) and 2, and he'll be working with Jim for the rest. There is a bug filed to track the progress of this task -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/489285 Please let me know if you've got any comments or questions. Regards, David. -- David Planella Ubuntu Translations Coordinator david(dot)planella(at)ubuntu(dot)com www.ubuntu.com signature.asc Description: Això és una part d'un missatge signada digitalment -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
