Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
On 18/01/2009 21:24, Tony Travis wrote: > > Hello, Sean. > > William is right, most Mac's have a 'normal' keyboard + I'm running > Ubuntu 8.10 on an old 15" flat-screen G4 iMac quite happily. The only > keyboard-related problem I have is that the Mac cursor keys produce > different escapes than the PC keys when using NX, so I have to be > careful if I suspend an NX session running from a PC then resume the > session from NX running on a Mac... > > Anyone else running 8.10 on a PowerPC Mac? > > Bye, > Tony. > I'm not running a Mac at the moment but I do have a PPC G3 iMac in the loft. I'm not sure if it has a hardware problem though because it seems VERY slow, almost 386 speeds. Not something I'd expect from a machine running at 450MHz. One of these days I'm going to dig it out and put a newer version of Ubuntu on it, last time I had Ubuntu on there it was something like 5.10. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
Sean Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 PM, William Anderson wrote: >> Where it counts, it does exactly what you'd think a Ctrl key does. If I >> fire up a shell, Ctrl+C, +Z, +S, etc does what you think it would. You >> quickly get used to the difference between Ctrl and Cmd, in fact it's >> quite handy to be able to use Cmd+C in a shell to copy stuff without >> accidentally killing the process you're running. Honestly, the more I >> hear about all these supposed issues with different keys etc, the more >> it sounds like FUD (not accusing you of anything, just commenting on the >> general hassles people usually proclaim of Macs). > > When I become wealthy I may invest in one... but at the moment Windows > & Ubuntu suffice... Hello, Sean. William is right, most Mac's have a 'normal' keyboard + I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 on an old 15" flat-screen G4 iMac quite happily. The only keyboard-related problem I have is that the Mac cursor keys produce different escapes than the PC keys when using NX, so I have to be careful if I suspend an NX session running from a PC then resume the session from NX running on a Mac... Anyone else running 8.10 on a PowerPC Mac? Bye, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, University of Aberdeen, Rowett Institute of Nutrition and Health, Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK tel +44(0)1224 712751, fax +44(0)1224 716687, http://www.rowett.ac.uk mailto:a.tra...@abdn.ac.uk, http://bioinformatics.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Sad but true? From the Register
On 18/01/2009 17:10, Lucy wrote: > I'm personally very glad that Ubuntu doesn't distribute Adobe's flash > and will continue to do so (regardless of the practicalities). > Ubuntu's attitudes and actions with regards to free software greatly > helps the advancement of free software in general (maybe contriversial > but it's certainly what I believe). > Personally I think it's good that we're given a choice, yeah a lot of users might just plump for Flash (myself included) but it's good to have the option to use something else. I think when I get round to installing Ubuntu on my laptop I will give Gnash a proper try. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
On 18/01/2009 17:01, Ian Pascoe wrote: > OK, looks like we've got three different strands here: > > - on line support > - user education > - diagnostic apps > > And personally, the last one scares me as it's a major project in itself. - > although there may be stuff out there that could be adapted like the distro > that ships with an app that collects hardware data; darn, can't remember > which one does it it's not Ubuntu though is it? > > IIRC CentOS and Fedora do something like this, can't for the life of me remember what it's called though, just seen it scrolling past on boot up. > I also believe that the on line support needs to be both a graphical one and > a command line one - graphical to observe the user to see what they're doing > etc like VNC. > Well I guess for command line support there is always SSH. I was having a play with regards to graphical support and reverse VNC. I managed to use x11vnc to connect to my laptop running TightVNC. IIRC I used something like x11vnc -connect hostname.domain.org:5500 It did say something on the x11vnc output about forwarding it via SSH but I didn't have time this morning to look into it further. What I'd love to know is if there is any way I could kill the process with Zenity so that the user can close the remote session at any time? > Actually, what do Cononical use for there own paid for remote support, if > they have one? Be a lot easier to use infrastructure already in place than > try and create our own > > Yup, no point in re-inventing the wheel if we can get away with it. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 17:01 +, Ian Pascoe wrote: > OK, looks like we've got three different strands here: > > - on line support > - user education > - diagnostic apps > > And personally, the last one scares me as it's a major project in itself. - > although there may be stuff out there that could be adapted like the distro > that ships with an app that collects hardware data; darn, can't remember > which one does it it's not Ubuntu though is it? > > I also believe that the on line support needs to be both a graphical one and > a command line one - graphical to observe the user to see what they're doing > etc like VNC. > > Actually, what do Cononical use for there own paid for remote support, if > they have one? Be a lot easier to use infrastructure already in place than > try and create our own > > Ian Ian, Did you want to start adding this to the wiki (if the group leader agrees), as it's starting to get a bit interesting and might be worth collating all the information into one place. -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Sad but true? From the Register
2009/1/17 Colin Watson : > > It's easy to forget, when dealing with the sort of free software > licences that we generally work with in main, that we actually depend on > some quite broad and permissive distribution terms in those licences to > be able to distribute a free operating system without encumbrances in > the form of user registration or "activation", per-user fees, and the > like. Those are permissions that generally simply aren't available with > proprietary software, whose distributors often want a measure of control > that free software developers willingly give up. I think this is an important point, Ubuntu (and other distros) do such a good job of providing free software in an accessible way that it's easy to forget the problems that less free licenses cause (which causes frustration from newer users in particular when certain things aren't available). Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply, it's useful for people to know the limitations and problems caused by the licenses Adobe and others use. > I've written this post from a pragmatic standpoint, because I know that > some people are dissatisfied with the answer we usually give. I do think > that the ethical answer is really the more important one: we don't > distribute Flash with Ubuntu because we believe it is contrary to our > goal of advancing free software. Nevertheless, I wanted to make it clear > that the ethical answer is not the only reason we can't distribute Flash > with Ubuntu: even if we were to compromise our ethics, it wouldn't make > any difference. We just don't have the necessary rights. I'm personally very glad that Ubuntu doesn't distribute Adobe's flash and will continue to do so (regardless of the practicalities). Ubuntu's attitudes and actions with regards to free software greatly helps the advancement of free software in general (maybe contriversial but it's certainly what I believe). -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
OK, looks like we've got three different strands here: - on line support - user education - diagnostic apps And personally, the last one scares me as it's a major project in itself. - although there may be stuff out there that could be adapted like the distro that ships with an app that collects hardware data; darn, can't remember which one does it it's not Ubuntu though is it? I also believe that the on line support needs to be both a graphical one and a command line one - graphical to observe the user to see what they're doing etc like VNC. Actually, what do Cononical use for there own paid for remote support, if they have one? Be a lot easier to use infrastructure already in place than try and create our own Ian -Original Message- From: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com]on Behalf Of Paul Sutton Sent: 18 January 2009 11:52 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register Rob Beard wrote: > On 18/01/2009 10:49, Paul Sutton wrote: > >>> While just fixing things is what some people want, some level of >>> education should be involved (I believe anyway) so that if it happens >>> again they can fix it themselves. >>> >>> Just a few points to think about, otherwise I fully support the idea! >>> >>> -Matt Daubney >>> >>> > Yep I agree with that, help them help themselves. Maybe with feedback > from newbies we could look at creating more screencasts too? > >> I agree here, a few years a go I found myself fixing a friends computer >> and re-installing windows etc from the restore cd's >> >> I got him to the point quite easily where he could insert the start up >> floppy, follow the instructions and get back to a working system, on his >> own, so he relied far less on me to walk round, >> >> >> > The only issue I can see with this is the potential for the user to > loose data. I've found a few people have had screwed Windows PCs, > usually they can at least retrieve their data onto a USB stick or > external hard drive if they use Ubuntu. > >> I tried this with someone else and he was not interested, in me actually >> teaching him things, >> >> >> > I've had that too. > >> So it depends on the individual and perhaps their attitudes. Personally >> if i am constantly fixing virus problems and recommend using a virus >> checker, which I download and install, if they can't be bothered to keep >> it maintained, then what chance have we got, but I would have to teach >> them how to keep it maintained, in the same way someone teaches me how >> to check the oil in a car (see below) >> >> Preventative maintenance is simple enough. >> >> >> > You mean things like making sure they install security updates and > possibly backing up important data? > > Rob > > Yes, so teach users how to back up their data, where too etc, flash drives are pretty cheap these days as are writeable cd' / dvd media. that should be put in the checklist, Back up your data, securly, and check its backed up properly, its all very well copying data to a dvd, but if something goes wrong, and you then go to access that dvd at a later date and can't your stuck, it takes a few mins only to mount it, and check the data is on there, perhaps once on the cd' copying back also requires you to alter the permissions sometimes so its no longer read only which on a dvd it would be, again something extra to add to a check list, as you need to consider, Screen shots also a good idea, Looking at the desktop training manual, is this provided in pdf with ubuntu, i can't find it anywhere obvious, it needs to be on the desktop, along with a viewer so it can be loaded up and read my new users. It is downloadable but users need to find it. Paul -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats e.g ISO 26300 odt http://www.oasis-open.org/home/index.php Next Linux User Group meet : Feb 7th : 3pm (TBC), Shoreline Cafe Paignton -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
Rob Model B of course! Ian -Original Message- From: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com]on Behalf Of Rob Beard Sent: 18 January 2009 11:11 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register On 18/01/2009 10:19, Ian Pascoe wrote: > Well, it seems that an acorn has been planted. > > Which one? Electron, BBC B? :-) Sorry couldn't resist. > I agree that crawling needs to be successfully accomplished before any > walking, and a proof of concept seems to be the order of the day. > > If this concept does get raised in the next UK meeting on IRC, can someone > let me have the URL for the conversations afterwards as I personally don't > IRC. > > If things go for a positive slant, I'll add something to the UK Ideas page. > > Ian > > Sounds good, I did see somewhere about some remote assistance idea on the Ubuntu Wiki, can't find it at the moment though. I do think though that if we can get something working it would be an ideal way of providing support. With regards to the question about if the end user sees what we're doing, I think that is a good idea, well if it's workable. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:45 PM, William Anderson wrote: > Where it counts, it does exactly what you'd think a Ctrl key does. If I > fire up a shell, Ctrl+C, +Z, +S, etc does what you think it would. You > quickly get used to the difference between Ctrl and Cmd, in fact it's > quite handy to be able to use Cmd+C in a shell to copy stuff without > accidentally killing the process you're running. Honestly, the more I > hear about all these supposed issues with different keys etc, the more > it sounds like FUD (not accusing you of anything, just commenting on the > general hassles people usually proclaim of Macs). When I become wealthy I may invest in one... but at the moment Windows & Ubuntu suffice... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] killed box through /var :P
Neil Greenwood wrote: > [snip] > > Have a look at http://blog.hanno-stock.de/archives/50 for a few extra > steps that will mark libraries and dependencies as automatically > installed (then they get removed when you choose to remove the package > you originally installed, instead of becoming cruft). But Ubuntu et al automatically pick up on orphaned packages and offer apt-get autoremove to get rid of them, or did I miss a memo somewhere? -n -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
Sean Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM, William Anderson wrote: >> Hang on, what do you mean, no Ctrl key? I'm looking at the MacBook Pro >> keyboard I'm typing on right now, and there it is, a Ctrl key nestling >> between Fn and Option/Alt. This and the "there's no right mouse >> button"[1] fallacy really irritate me sometimes. > > Okay, so there's a Ctrl key. But it doesn't do what the control key > would normally do, that appears to be the job of the "Apple" key. > > So what precisely does the "Ctrl" key do on a Mac? Where it counts, it does exactly what you'd think a Ctrl key does. If I fire up a shell, Ctrl+C, +Z, +S, etc does what you think it would. You quickly get used to the difference between Ctrl and Cmd, in fact it's quite handy to be able to use Cmd+C in a shell to copy stuff without accidentally killing the process you're running. Honestly, the more I hear about all these supposed issues with different keys etc, the more it sounds like FUD (not accusing you of anything, just commenting on the general hassles people usually proclaim of Macs). -n -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
It lets you use Ubuntu on a Mac a little more easily :) (The crtl key was, iirc, added around 1986, when Apple started to bring out networking and terminal programmes which required it, usually for connecting to a mainframe. Insignia SoftPC, which let you run DOS apps on Macs, and so required a ctrl key, also came out around the same time.) On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Sean Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM, William Anderson wrote: >> Hang on, what do you mean, no Ctrl key? I'm looking at the MacBook Pro >> keyboard I'm typing on right now, and there it is, a Ctrl key nestling >> between Fn and Option/Alt. This and the "there's no right mouse >> button"[1] fallacy really irritate me sometimes. > > Okay, so there's a Ctrl key. But it doesn't do what the control key > would normally do, that appears to be the job of the "Apple" key. > > So what precisely does the "Ctrl" key do on a Mac? > > Sean > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM, William Anderson wrote: > Hang on, what do you mean, no Ctrl key? I'm looking at the MacBook Pro > keyboard I'm typing on right now, and there it is, a Ctrl key nestling > between Fn and Option/Alt. This and the "there's no right mouse > button"[1] fallacy really irritate me sometimes. Okay, so there's a Ctrl key. But it doesn't do what the control key would normally do, that appears to be the job of the "Apple" key. So what precisely does the "Ctrl" key do on a Mac? Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
Not everyone always realises straight away that Macs can use a 2 button mouse. When I first started using one, it confused me, and I presumed that it didn't have one because it didn't use the right mouse button. The other thing that really got me about using a Mac is that I'm used to doing things on a keyboard from Ctrl + click, but Macs seem to instead use Cmd + Click (or at least my friends Mac Book Pro does). That can really confuse people I've found. 2009/1/18 William Anderson > Sean Miller wrote: > > [snip] > > > > Having grown up in a Unix/VT220 environment to find that there is no > > ctrl key and everything is done differently is, to say the least, > > rather "alien". I mean, ctrl-c to cancel... been there since time and > > memorium... how come Steve Jobs gets to redefine it? > > Hang on, what do you mean, no Ctrl key? I'm looking at the MacBook Pro > keyboard I'm typing on right now, and there it is, a Ctrl key nestling > between Fn and Option/Alt. This and the "there's no right mouse > button"[1] fallacy really irritate me sometimes. > > -n > > [1] If using a Mighty Mouse, oh look, it has a right-button. If using >a trackpad, either Ctrl+click or enable right-click using two >fingers in the system preferences. Or, you know, just plug in any >USB mouse. > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > -- Simon Wears munkyju...@gmail.com | http://MunkyJunky.com Manchester Metropolitan University Computing Student -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] killed box through /var :P
2009/1/18 William Anderson : > [snip] > I'd suggest an easier path would be to do: > > dpkg --get-selections > /tmp/packages.txt > > Then take a copy of /tmp/packages.txt (and probably an archive of /etc > as well to make a backup of key system settings), do whatever re-install > steps you'd require, put packages.txt back in /tmp/ and then do this > after an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade: > > dpkg --set-selections < /tmp/packages.txt > apt-get -u dselect-upgrade > The problem with this is that it sets all the packages as manually installed on the new installation. Have a look at http://blog.hanno-stock.de/archives/50 for a few extra steps that will mark libraries and dependencies as automatically installed (then they get removed when you choose to remove the package you originally installed, instead of becoming cruft). HTH Cofion, Neil. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] killed box through /var :P
Sorry, catching up with old mail :) Matthew Wild wrote: > [snip] > >> 4 would it be best to generate an install list from synaptic so I know what >> I've got, and do a clean install with a larger partition? (and how would I >> do this through aptitude command line - I have no gui at all now). > > dpkg -l > packages.txt > > However if dpkg is in a bad state, this may not work. I'd suggest an easier path would be to do: dpkg --get-selections > /tmp/packages.txt Then take a copy of /tmp/packages.txt (and probably an archive of /etc as well to make a backup of key system settings), do whatever re-install steps you'd require, put packages.txt back in /tmp/ and then do this after an apt-get update && apt-get upgrade: dpkg --set-selections < /tmp/packages.txt apt-get -u dselect-upgrade -n -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Mac Frustration (was Remote support was Sad but true? etc.)
Sean Miller wrote: > [snip] > > Having grown up in a Unix/VT220 environment to find that there is no > ctrl key and everything is done differently is, to say the least, > rather "alien". I mean, ctrl-c to cancel... been there since time and > memorium... how come Steve Jobs gets to redefine it? Hang on, what do you mean, no Ctrl key? I'm looking at the MacBook Pro keyboard I'm typing on right now, and there it is, a Ctrl key nestling between Fn and Option/Alt. This and the "there's no right mouse button"[1] fallacy really irritate me sometimes. -n [1] If using a Mighty Mouse, oh look, it has a right-button. If using a trackpad, either Ctrl+click or enable right-click using two fingers in the system preferences. Or, you know, just plug in any USB mouse. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
Rob Beard wrote: > On 18/01/2009 10:49, Paul Sutton wrote: > >>> While just fixing things is what some people want, some level of >>> education should be involved (I believe anyway) so that if it happens >>> again they can fix it themselves. >>> >>> Just a few points to think about, otherwise I fully support the idea! >>> >>> -Matt Daubney >>> >>> > Yep I agree with that, help them help themselves. Maybe with feedback > from newbies we could look at creating more screencasts too? > >> I agree here, a few years a go I found myself fixing a friends computer >> and re-installing windows etc from the restore cd's >> >> I got him to the point quite easily where he could insert the start up >> floppy, follow the instructions and get back to a working system, on his >> own, so he relied far less on me to walk round, >> >> >> > The only issue I can see with this is the potential for the user to > loose data. I've found a few people have had screwed Windows PCs, > usually they can at least retrieve their data onto a USB stick or > external hard drive if they use Ubuntu. > >> I tried this with someone else and he was not interested, in me actually >> teaching him things, >> >> >> > I've had that too. > >> So it depends on the individual and perhaps their attitudes. Personally >> if i am constantly fixing virus problems and recommend using a virus >> checker, which I download and install, if they can't be bothered to keep >> it maintained, then what chance have we got, but I would have to teach >> them how to keep it maintained, in the same way someone teaches me how >> to check the oil in a car (see below) >> >> Preventative maintenance is simple enough. >> >> >> > You mean things like making sure they install security updates and > possibly backing up important data? > > Rob > > Yes, so teach users how to back up their data, where too etc, flash drives are pretty cheap these days as are writeable cd' / dvd media. that should be put in the checklist, Back up your data, securly, and check its backed up properly, its all very well copying data to a dvd, but if something goes wrong, and you then go to access that dvd at a later date and can't your stuck, it takes a few mins only to mount it, and check the data is on there, perhaps once on the cd' copying back also requires you to alter the permissions sometimes so its no longer read only which on a dvd it would be, again something extra to add to a check list, as you need to consider, Screen shots also a good idea, Looking at the desktop training manual, is this provided in pdf with ubuntu, i can't find it anywhere obvious, it needs to be on the desktop, along with a viewer so it can be loaded up and read my new users. It is downloadable but users need to find it. Paul -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats e.g ISO 26300 odt http://www.oasis-open.org/home/index.php Next Linux User Group meet : Feb 7th : 3pm (TBC), Shoreline Cafe Paignton -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
On 18/01/2009 10:49, Paul Sutton wrote: >> While just fixing things is what some people want, some level of >> education should be involved (I believe anyway) so that if it happens >> again they can fix it themselves. >> >> Just a few points to think about, otherwise I fully support the idea! >> >> -Matt Daubney >> Yep I agree with that, help them help themselves. Maybe with feedback from newbies we could look at creating more screencasts too? > I agree here, a few years a go I found myself fixing a friends computer > and re-installing windows etc from the restore cd's > > I got him to the point quite easily where he could insert the start up > floppy, follow the instructions and get back to a working system, on his > own, so he relied far less on me to walk round, > > The only issue I can see with this is the potential for the user to loose data. I've found a few people have had screwed Windows PCs, usually they can at least retrieve their data onto a USB stick or external hard drive if they use Ubuntu. > I tried this with someone else and he was not interested, in me actually > teaching him things, > > I've had that too. > So it depends on the individual and perhaps their attitudes. Personally > if i am constantly fixing virus problems and recommend using a virus > checker, which I download and install, if they can't be bothered to keep > it maintained, then what chance have we got, but I would have to teach > them how to keep it maintained, in the same way someone teaches me how > to check the oil in a car (see below) > > Preventative maintenance is simple enough. > > You mean things like making sure they install security updates and possibly backing up important data? Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
On 18/01/2009 10:19, Ian Pascoe wrote: > Well, it seems that an acorn has been planted. > > Which one? Electron, BBC B? :-) Sorry couldn't resist. > I agree that crawling needs to be successfully accomplished before any > walking, and a proof of concept seems to be the order of the day. > > If this concept does get raised in the next UK meeting on IRC, can someone > let me have the URL for the conversations afterwards as I personally don't > IRC. > > If things go for a positive slant, I'll add something to the UK Ideas page. > > Ian > > Sounds good, I did see somewhere about some remote assistance idea on the Ubuntu Wiki, can't find it at the moment though. I do think though that if we can get something working it would be an ideal way of providing support. With regards to the question about if the end user sees what we're doing, I think that is a good idea, well if it's workable. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 10:49 +, Paul Sutton wrote: > > Perhaps when helping people we need to issue them with a basic checklist > of common faults, a bit like the steps you go through when you call tech > support. It also helps the person helping the end user if the end user > knows which gui they are using or even which operating system and version, > > > Paul Maybe before the system offers to connect them with a support person it should go through a bog standard checklist of things to try, much like the troubleshooters you get in a lot of software. At the least this information could be passed onto one of the volunteers to give them a better idea of the fault and what's already been tried, and at best it would mitigate the need for using one of the volunteers to fix the problem. -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
> While just fixing things is what some people want, some level of > education should be involved (I believe anyway) so that if it happens > again they can fix it themselves. > > Just a few points to think about, otherwise I fully support the idea! > > -Matt Daubney > > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > > > > I agree here, a few years a go I found myself fixing a friends computer and re-installing windows etc from the restore cd's I got him to the point quite easily where he could insert the start up floppy, follow the instructions and get back to a working system, on his own, so he relied far less on me to walk round, I tried this with someone else and he was not interested, in me actually teaching him things, So it depends on the individual and perhaps their attitudes. Personally if i am constantly fixing virus problems and recommend using a virus checker, which I download and install, if they can't be bothered to keep it maintained, then what chance have we got, but I would have to teach them how to keep it maintained, in the same way someone teaches me how to check the oil in a car (see below) Preventative maintenance is simple enough. As for the point on trust, the only thing I can think of regarding remote support is to use gpg keys for the actual access authentication, the only way this would work is setting up these with the user, and having keys signed. At proper sessions. Perhaps when helping people we need to issue them with a basic checklist of common faults, a bit like the steps you go through when you call tech support. It also helps the person helping the end user if the end user knows which gui they are using or even which operating system and version, Paul -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats e.g ISO 26300 odt http://www.oasis-open.org/home/index.php Next Linux User Group meet : Feb 7th : 3pm (TBC), Shoreline Cafe Paignton -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'apt' Proxy Woes
On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 07:47 +, Stuart Bird wrote: > Hi > > I am running a recent install of Ubuntu 8.10 x64 on a Dell XPS M1330 > which I use both at work and at home. The issue I am having is that > the works network is behind a proxy but the home one is not. I use a > wired connection (eth0) when at work and the wi-fi (wlan0) when at > home. I can get internet access at home by knocking off the proxy > settings in Firefox and in the preferences menu, but cannot get > synaptic or apt-get to work because it is looking for the works proxy. > > I have looked high and low but cannot find where the proxy details are > set for synaptic/apt. > > Is there a straight forward way of getting this set up to work > properly. > > Thanks in advance. > > Stu Forgot to add! In the command line, it pays to use sudo -i then change the http_proxy and apt-get from there, otherwise when you use sudo the proxy won't exist for the root user. -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 'apt' Proxy Woes
On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 07:47 +, Stuart Bird wrote: > Hi > > I am running a recent install of Ubuntu 8.10 x64 on a Dell XPS M1330 > which I use both at work and at home. The issue I am having is that > the works network is behind a proxy but the home one is not. I use a > wired connection (eth0) when at work and the wi-fi (wlan0) when at > home. I can get internet access at home by knocking off the proxy > settings in Firefox and in the preferences menu, but cannot get > synaptic or apt-get to work because it is looking for the works proxy. > > I have looked high and low but cannot find where the proxy details are > set for synaptic/apt. > > Is there a straight forward way of getting this set up to work > properly. > > Thanks in advance. > > Stu Hi Stu, I think synaptic/apt from the gnome menu use the system proxy (system -> Preferences -> Network Proxy). If you're using them from the command line you need to set the http_proxy environment variable: export http_proxy=http://yourproxy.com:proxy_port I frequently use the command line method at uni. Hope that helps! -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register
Well, it seems that an acorn has been planted. I agree that crawling needs to be successfully accomplished before any walking, and a proof of concept seems to be the order of the day. If this concept does get raised in the next UK meeting on IRC, can someone let me have the URL for the conversations afterwards as I personally don't IRC. If things go for a positive slant, I'll add something to the UK Ideas page. Ian -Original Message- From: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com]on Behalf Of Matthew Daubney Sent: 17 January 2009 20:18 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Remote support was Sad but true? From the Register A few comments inline On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 15:11 +, Ian Pascoe wrote: > Johnathon, et al, > > About a year or two ago, discussions were held here about providing some > sort of support package from the UK loco, but got bogged down for one reason > or another. This idea of setting up a hosted VPN server could be a way to > provide the remote support that we were finding difficult to arrange. > I must have missed these discussions, but shall raise a point about the VPN thing at the end. > Anyone fancy trying to set up such a project to see if it both works and is > workable? > I'd be interested in helping out a little bit where I could. > Maybe set up a server at someones place for testing purposes, and if all > works well there see if those nice people at Bitfolk, or whoever does the > podcast mirrors, could loan us an account for a period of time whilst trials > go on? Or maybe a bit of space on a Cononical server? > > If all works out, extend the server capabilities to host an iPBX and a CRM > (Customer Relationship Management) tool like SugarCRM, I think, and an > instant Ubuntu Support Service is formed. Now if you really wanted to get > onto the bandwagon, get a duplicate setup in the States, Europe and > elsewhere connected together and hey presto! something that no one else has > but is cost effective and a real boon to the Community. Hmm, better stop > there, beginning to go the realms of fantasy! > > It'd certainly make things a lot easier to do as there wouldn't be problems > with security, bandwidth or such like. > This last point of yours raises a point I wanted to raise (point.) If you offer these remote VPN support things, how can you both generate enough trust from the people you're helping, and enough trust in the volunteers helping out not to abuse their position? I can understand where your coming from with this, and I am fully in support of the idea, I just think this trust issue may need some looking at first. Another thing is, would you just go into peoples machines and fix it, or would you provide information on what you're doing to fix things, or prompt people to do things and watch, just giving a slight nudge when they go wrong? While just fixing things is what some people want, some level of education should be involved (I believe anyway) so that if it happens again they can fix it themselves. Just a few points to think about, otherwise I fully support the idea! -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
