Re: [ubuntu-uk] nvidia and lucid

2010-05-24 Thread Bruce Durling
Tim and John,

Thanks! I've passed this on to my friend.

cheers,
Bruce

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] no wired network after Lucid upgrade

2010-05-24 Thread mac
mac wrote:
 I've just upgraded my Dell 6400 laptop from Karmic to Lucid...
 Since the upgrade, there is no wired connection at all.

Still only have wireless, despite trying a couple of poorly-understood 
fixes I came across.  Various bug reports mention this problem, but 
don't seem to have been taken further.

Has anyone upgraded a laptop Karmic to Lucid, and got the proper default 
behaviour (detects wired connection, and uses it by default if present; 
  otherwise uses wireless)?

mac

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[ubuntu-uk] Linux On Dell

2010-05-24 Thread Dianne Reuby
Out of curiosity I went into Currys Digital on Saturday - they too are
only selling Windows 7 machines and say installing another OS would
invalidate the hardware guarantee.

I'm sure that my paranoia about MS sales methods is getting out of hand,
but I can't help wondering.

Dianne


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Linux On Dell

2010-05-24 Thread Alan Pope
On 24 May 2010 09:37, Dianne Reuby pramc...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Out of curiosity I went into Currys Digital on Saturday - they too are
 only selling Windows 7 machines and say installing another OS would
 invalidate the hardware guarantee.


Company policy or the opinion of clueless Saturday staff?

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Media Centre Advice

2010-05-24 Thread javadayaz
has anyone used a wireless keyboard and mouse with this?

On 13 May 2010 09:28, Simon Swaysland simon.swaysl...@gmail.com wrote:


 I have the Revo running Karmic with XBMC and the Keysonic keyboard. It's
 a pretty good solution, and only has occasional digital audio output
 issues which require restarting XBMC.

 I plan to replace the Keysonic with a PS3 remote and bluetooth dongle
 and mount the Revo on the rear of the television. Eventually. Right now,
 it ain't broke.

 I am happy to assist in the setup, but really Google found all the
 howtos for me.

 Kind regards,

 travis


 Thanks everyone for your help and advice, much appreciated.

 Just out of interest, does anyone have any experience of running a media
 centre on a Dell Zino HD? They look quite cool, plus they have a DVD player
 built in.

 Thanks,

 Simon

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Media Centre Advice

2010-05-24 Thread Simon Swaysland
Yes, the one that came with it works fine.

On 24 May 2010 09:39, javadayaz javada...@gmail.com wrote:

 has anyone used a wireless keyboard and mouse with this?

 On 13 May 2010 09:28, Simon Swaysland simon.swaysl...@gmail.com wrote:


 I have the Revo running Karmic with XBMC and the Keysonic keyboard. It's
 a pretty good solution, and only has occasional digital audio output
 issues which require restarting XBMC.

 I plan to replace the Keysonic with a PS3 remote and bluetooth dongle
 and mount the Revo on the rear of the television. Eventually. Right now,
 it ain't broke.

 I am happy to assist in the setup, but really Google found all the
 howtos for me.

 Kind regards,

 travis


 Thanks everyone for your help and advice, much appreciated.

 Just out of interest, does anyone have any experience of running a media
 centre on a Dell Zino HD? They look quite cool, plus they have a DVD player
 built in.

 Thanks,

 Simon

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Gnome Shell

2010-05-24 Thread Markie
Its a nice looking desktop and feature but I gave it a quick shot this
morning and one thing that seems not to be working is the notification icon
when you have a new IM or email, perhaps I need to configure something else?

Markie

On 23 May 2010 12:00, chris cbain...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have been testing the Gnome Shell in lucid for the past few days and I
 have to say I love it! The interface is slick, smart and while the
 compositing manager (clutter) is not as feature rich as Compiz, its fast
 and enabled from the off.

 I have been adding to the Ubuntu Wiki about the Gnome Shell:
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gnomeshell
 The wiki page contains instructions on installing, testing and moving to
 gnome shell.

 I would recommend having a look to see if you like it,

 Chris

 P.S.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] no wired network after Lucid upgrade

2010-05-24 Thread Neil Greenwood
On 24 May 2010 08:56, mac ammonius.grammati...@gmx.co.uk wrote:
 mac wrote:
 I've just upgraded my Dell 6400 laptop from Karmic to Lucid...
 Since the upgrade, there is no wired connection at all.

 Still only have wireless, despite trying a couple of poorly-understood
 fixes I came across.  Various bug reports mention this problem, but
 don't seem to have been taken further.

 Has anyone upgraded a laptop Karmic to Lucid, and got the proper default
 behaviour (detects wired connection, and uses it by default if present;
  otherwise uses wireless)?


I've upgraded both my work and home laptops, and they both have wired
and wireless networking working fine.

Have you tried a LiveCD or LiveUSB?

Sorry I can't be more help.
Neil.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Using Gparted

2010-05-24 Thread Rowan Berkeley
On Sun, 23 May 2010 at 12:36 Daniel Drummond dmdrummo...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2010 at 12:32, Rowan Berkeley
rowan.berke...@googlemail.com wrote:
  I can't paste from the terminal.
 In the terminal use Ctrl-Shift-C to copy, after making a selection 
 with the mouse.  To paste into the terminal you can use Ctrl-Shift-V.
 That'll save you some typing :-) Daniel
Now that's helpful, Daniel, thank you. Life's too short to copy all
this. Rowan 






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Re: [ubuntu-uk] no wired network after Lucid upgrade

2010-05-24 Thread John Stevenson
On 24 May 2010 08:56, mac ammonius.grammati...@gmx.co.uk wrote:

 mac wrote:
  I've just upgraded my Dell 6400 laptop from Karmic to Lucid...
  Since the upgrade, there is no wired connection at all.

 Still only have wireless, despite trying a couple of poorly-understood
 fixes I came across.  Various bug reports mention this problem, but
 don't seem to have been taken further.

 Has anyone upgraded a laptop Karmic to Lucid, and got the proper default
 behaviour (detects wired connection, and uses it by default if present;
  otherwise uses wireless)?

 mac


Hello Mac,
This may be a little obvious, but have you tried creating a new wired
connection using the Network Manager?  You should be able to right click the
network icon in the panel and select Edit Connections.  If there are no
entries in the Wired tab, add a new one.

If there is an entry there already, perhaps Auto eth0, select edit to see if
it is correct for you network.  Check the IPv4 Settings tab and check it is
using Automatic(DHCP) or has the right network address settings for your
network

There is a checkbox at the very bottom of the edit connection name called
Available to all users, make sure this is checked.

If you have no joy with any of this, in a terminal window type the following
command and paste the results in an email reply:

ifconfig -a

Hope this helps.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Linux On Dell

2010-05-24 Thread francis
On 24 May 2010 09:39, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote:

 On 24 May 2010 09:37, Dianne Reuby pramc...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
  Out of curiosity I went into Currys Digital on Saturday - they too are
  only selling Windows 7 machines and say installing another OS would
  invalidate the hardware guarantee.
 


I don't know much about what curry's think but i buy a few hundred systems
from dell a year, servers, laptops, desktops,  some with windows, some with
no OS,  never have dell said to me, sorry you installed ubuntu no hardware
support for you, I would only point out that I don't expect the support
guys script he follows to work when you are trying to diagnose a problem,
 you are going to have to diagnose it yourself and tell them what is wrong.



 Company policy or the opinion of clueless Saturday staff?

 Cheers,
 Al.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] no wired network after Lucid upgrade

2010-05-24 Thread mac
John Stevenson wrote:
snip
 There is a checkbox at the very bottom of the edit connection name called
 Available to all users, make sure this is checked.

Bingo!  That's fixed the wired connection, which is now working perfectly.

I still don't see the previous NetworkManager behaviour of selecting 
just the wired connection if present:  rather, the ethernet and the 
wireless NICs both connect now.  (I don't know whether that's a 
problem?)   Anyway, I can just disconnect the wireless if I need to 
(e.g. for upgrading).

Thanks very much for your helpful advice.

mac


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Linux On Dell

2010-05-24 Thread Dianne Reuby
On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 09:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:

 
 Company policy or the opinion of clueless Saturday staff?

Probably policy - the sales person I spoke to went away to ask a
colleague (without being asked to do so). He actually recommended trying
PC World!

Dianne



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] no wired network after Lucid upgrade

2010-05-24 Thread John Stevenson
On 24 May 2010 12:08, mac ammonius.grammati...@gmx.co.uk wrote:

 John Stevenson wrote:
 snip
  There is a checkbox at the very bottom of the edit connection name called
  Available to all users, make sure this is checked.

 Bingo!  That's fixed the wired connection, which is now working perfectly.

 I still don't see the previous NetworkManager behaviour of selecting
 just the wired connection if present:  rather, the ethernet and the
 wireless NICs both connect now.  (I don't know whether that's a
 problem?)   Anyway, I can just disconnect the wireless if I need to
 (e.g. for upgrading).

 Thanks very much for your helpful advice.

 mac


Glad you are up and runnnig.  I did get caught out by this myself I seem to
remember, but only on my laptop and not my PC.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Media Centre Advice

2010-05-24 Thread Tony Pursell
On 24 May 2010 at 9:39, javadayaz wrote:
 has anyone used a wireless keyboard and mouse with this?

Yes. I have a wireless keyboard with built in track pad for my Revo.  
Works *quite* well.  Far from perfect though.  Loses characters if you 
don't type very methodically and the trackpad is very sensitive - dwell 
more than a couple of seconds on a hyperlink and you go there...

Tony

 
 On 13 May 2010 09:28, Simon Swaysland simon.swaysl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
  I have the Revo running Karmic with XBMC and the Keysonic keyboard. It's
  a pretty good solution, and only has occasional digital audio output
  issues which require restarting XBMC.
 
  I plan to replace the Keysonic with a PS3 remote and bluetooth dongle
  and mount the Revo on the rear of the television. Eventually. Right now,
  it ain't broke.
 
  I am happy to assist in the setup, but really Google found all the
  howtos for me.
 
  Kind regards,
 
  travis
 
 
  Thanks everyone for your help and advice, much appreciated.
 
  Just out of interest, does anyone have any experience of running a media
  centre on a Dell Zino HD? They look quite cool, plus they have a DVD player
  built in.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Simon
 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Media Centre Advice

2010-05-24 Thread Bill Cumming
Is anyone using an IR remote with XBMC / Ubuntu?

looking for a good IR reciever / remote to use with my XBMC.
The motherboard (Zotac IONITX-F) does not have any pinouts for a IR receiver
(as far as i can tell) so I will need to get a USB one.


On 24 May 2010 17:36, Tony Pursell a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

 On 24 May 2010 at 9:39, javadayaz wrote:
  has anyone used a wireless keyboard and mouse with this?

 Yes. I have a wireless keyboard with built in track pad for my Revo.
 Works *quite* well.  Far from perfect though.  Loses characters if you
 don't type very methodically and the trackpad is very sensitive - dwell
 more than a couple of seconds on a hyperlink and you go there...

 Tony

 
  On 13 May 2010 09:28, Simon Swaysland simon.swaysl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  
   I have the Revo running Karmic with XBMC and the Keysonic keyboard.
 It's
   a pretty good solution, and only has occasional digital audio output
   issues which require restarting XBMC.
  
   I plan to replace the Keysonic with a PS3 remote and bluetooth dongle
   and mount the Revo on the rear of the television. Eventually. Right
 now,
   it ain't broke.
  
   I am happy to assist in the setup, but really Google found all the
   howtos for me.
  
   Kind regards,
  
   travis
  
  
   Thanks everyone for your help and advice, much appreciated.
  
   Just out of interest, does anyone have any experience of running a
 media
   centre on a Dell Zino HD? They look quite cool, plus they have a DVD
 player
   built in.
  
   Thanks,
  
   Simon
  
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Using Gparted

2010-05-24 Thread Rowan Berkeley
I got several useful emails full of advice from Linux Emporium about the
various partitions on my internal hard disk. Apparently the unused
partition is there so that the user can install two operating systems
side by side if they so wish. They say I could dispense with this and
add it to my user space, but between it and the large user space I
already have is a swap partition of 3GB. So, if I wanted to merge the
user spaces into one, I would first have to build a new swap partition
at the bottom of the space. I have no idea how you format a partition as
'swap', and perhaps all this is not really worth while just to gain 22GB
of extra user space. But it's very interesting.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Gnome Shell

2010-05-24 Thread chris
I get the notifications in the top right corner when I get a new email.
This might only work however if you set it as your default gnome-panel
provider?

Chris

On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 09:46 +0100, Markie wrote:
 Its a nice looking desktop and feature but I gave it a quick shot this
 morning and one thing that seems not to be working is the notification
 icon when you have a new IM or email, perhaps I need to configure
 something else?
 
 Markie
 
 On 23 May 2010 12:00, chris cbain...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have been testing the Gnome Shell in lucid for the past few
 days and I
 have to say I love it! The interface is slick, smart and while
 the
 compositing manager (clutter) is not as feature rich as
 Compiz, its fast
 and enabled from the off.
 
 I have been adding to the Ubuntu Wiki about the Gnome Shell:
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gnomeshell
 The wiki page contains instructions on installing, testing and
 moving to
 gnome shell.
 
 I would recommend having a look to see if you like it,
 
 Chris
 
 P.S.
 
 This is my first post to the Ubuntu UK List.
 
 
 
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[ubuntu-uk] Re : Using Gparted

2010-05-24 Thread Pallottini Aymeric
Hello Rowan,

In GParted  when creating the partition just make sure that you select 
linux-swap in the format to field.

Once you have your new swap partion created you will need to update 2 files 
with the new volume UUID. You can get the new UUID by right clicking on your 
new swap partition in GParted and selecting information.

The 2 files to modify are:
 /etc/fstab (change UUID on the line related to the swap volume)
/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume

Once you are done you need to run the following command in the terminal:
sudo dpkg-reconfigure  initramfs-tools

That command will enable hibernation on the new swap partition.

Aymeric



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[ubuntu-uk] Is the demise of Becta an opportunity for FOSS?

2010-05-24 Thread Bruno Girin
Hi all,

Just a thought I wanted to put to the list. Considering today's news [1]
and in particular the demise of Becta, the government's technology
agency for schools, is there an opportunity for FOSS to replace some or
all of what Becta used to provide?

I have no idea what sort of software a school needs but I suspect
something like:
  * Office software;
  * Some sort of basic ERP;
  * Basic document management;
  * Course management software;
  * Central user management with mass updates once a year when
pupils change.

Between all of us, would we be able to produce a blueprint of how to
deliver such a system using open source software? And would such a
blueprint be useful to those of us who run businesses or are involved in
their local communities in order to help push FOSS into schools?

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8699522.stm

Bruno



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[ubuntu-uk] Success! was Re: O2 Joggler: deal

2010-05-24 Thread Tim Powys-Lybbe
On 23 May at 22:01, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote:

 On 23 May 2010 21:27, Kris Douglas krisdoug...@gmail.com wrote:

my description of problems here

  Hello, the initial command looked correct, the location of the
  device is the name of where the usb stick is in the file system
  table, open Gparted/partition editor, you should see the usb device
  and it will be something like /dev/sdb
 
  then remember to type sudo before the command, just to see if you
  need root privilege to access the device. HTH
 
 Just as a corollary to this, it is not necessary to format the stick
 before writing it with dd.  The formatting info is included in the
 image.  So the output file is something like sdb which is the complete
 stick rather than a partition.

With all this it was easy.  I eventually deleted all partitions and
re-ran the 'dd' command using '/dev/sdb'.  As before the 8G stick did
not work but the 4G stick now did.  So many thanks to everyone who
helped me on the way.

The next step is to get a keyboard and mouse working and, hopefully,
format the 8G stick to work as a read/writable drive.

Once that is OK, I will attempt to get the RISC OS emulation working to
provide the smallest RISC OS (Acorn) machine on the market - but not the
first as others have done this before me, indeed it was seeing their
results last Monday that prompted me to say I would like to try this
too.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Is the demise of Becta an opportunity for FOSS?

2010-05-24 Thread Paul Sutton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Bruno Girin wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Just a thought I wanted to put to the list. Considering today's news [1]
 and in particular the demise of Becta, the government's technology
 agency for schools, is there an opportunity for FOSS to replace some or
 all of what Becta used to provide?
 
 I have no idea what sort of software a school needs but I suspect
 something like:
   * Office software;
   * Some sort of basic ERP;
   * Basic document management;
   * Course management software;
   * Central user management with mass updates once a year when
 pupils change.
 
 Between all of us, would we be able to produce a blueprint of how to
 deliver such a system using open source software? And would such a
 blueprint be useful to those of us who run businesses or are involved in
 their local communities in order to help push FOSS into schools?
 
 [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8699522.stm
 
 Bruno
 
 
Not sure how helpful I can be here

1. schools use something called SIMS schools info management system,
this for handling pupil data and sending to the LEA,  the system is
expensive adn propriatory but every school seems to have it,  therefore
data sent to the LEA is in this format.  not sure how we replace that.

ok office software is great,  I guess not sure if key stage 1 still use
some simple word processing software (dunno the name of it sorry), or
moved in to using MS office

clearly office can be replaced with open office.
there are programs aimed at SEN (special educational needs children)
which may be the hardest thing to find alternatives too on Linux systems.

a lot of software seems to be flash based, as in its on a website that
the children can use,  if its written properly I guess it will be cross
browser / platform, sadly a lot may not be and be IE only or rely on
bits that are not available on Linux.

Schools have interactive white boards, will Linux work with these

programming - logo can handle this,  however for the able / talented,
linux / oss systems could provide something a little more challenging.
(python or similar)

The ingots would probably solve a lot of the curriculum issues as the
corse work is  already written, the structure is already in place.

if schools are to be given more freedom, then this is potentially the
best option

other software is used for

data logging
storing and displaying data in a variety of forms,

this software would say tie maths with science

some schools also use mind mapping software, which there are free
versions available.

course management, perhaps this can be something like a virtual learning
environment (moodle) so students can log in from homw and download work
sheets etc that they may have missed / left at school,  does reply on
student being motivated i guess. esp if its left at school to get out of
doing the homework.

Abi word / gobby allow collaboration,  again this would be useful for
students to be able to collaborate on say a newsletter,  but i think a
lot more apps should have this integrated in,  etc

I am sure it is possible,  I thijk more use of software like moodle may
be useful,  plus data being presented on the web, should really follow
open standards, not something that MS word calls a web site,  even
openoffice doesn't really produce w3c quality output,  if you are
teaching web design teach it properly so bad habits don't poison future
developments.

Paul




 


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Is the demise of Becta an opportunity for FOSS?

2010-05-24 Thread Chris Rowson
 Hi all,

 Just a thought I wanted to put to the list. Considering today's news [1]
 and in particular the demise of Becta, the government's technology
 agency for schools, is there an opportunity for FOSS to replace some or
 all of what Becta used to provide?




I think that the software used in schools will be driven by the support
staff delivering IT solutions. Most schools don't have their own IT folk but
buy them in from the local authority and/or the private sector. I'd have
thought that getting OSS in schools kinda depends on getting it into the
organisations who provide IT to schools first...

Chris
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Is the demise of Becta an opportunity for FOSS?

2010-05-24 Thread Mark Brocklehurst

On 24/05/10 23:24, Chris Rowson wrote:


Hi all,

Just a thought I wanted to put to the list. Considering today's
news [1]
and in particular the demise of Becta, the government's technology
agency for schools, is there an opportunity for FOSS to replace
some or
all of what Becta used to provide? 



I think that the software used in schools will be driven by the 
support staff delivering IT solutions. Most schools don't have their 
own IT folk but buy them in from the local authority and/or the 
private sector. I'd have thought that getting OSS in schools kinda 
depends on getting it into the organisations who provide IT to schools 
first...


Chris


Hi,

I know I've not contributed to the list before, but I thought say a 
little something about this as I work as an IT Technician at a sixth 
form college.  Not quite the same as a school, but would still look to 
someone like Becta for guidance at least.
I have to admit to not knowing a lot of detail about certain things, 
however:


Yes, a lot of schools use SIMS, but there are alternatives that do the 
same thing with varying success rates, and yes I believe they are 
expensive - my college are on at least their fourth alternative since 
leaving SIMS behind many years ago.  Who's to say an Open Source 
alternative can't be created?


The same goes for Interactive Whiteboards - I've not tried plugging one 
into my Linux box, but from a programmer's perspective, it's another 
peripheral with either serial or USB connectivity, the only problem 
really is the time it might take to write such software.


As far as most software is concerned, the majority we use is 
proprietary, usually MS or Adobe.  I believe this is mostly due to staff 
being afraid to try something new - the students do use alternatives 
like OpenOffice at home.
There are a few teachers happy to use Open Source, but to try and 
persuade the entire college to do the same would prove difficult.  Also, 
at college level I'm not sure what the situation might be with 
computerised exams where an examination board provides files to be 
used during the exam - from experience most such files are MS 
orientated, (eg. MS Databases).
Having said that, with budgets being cut recently it may be give more 
weight to the Open Source alternative.


I do agree that the support staff delivering IT solutions are the ones 
who drive a lot of what's used, but I think they should also listen to 
the requirements of the teachers themselves.  Maybe teachers themselves 
should also be made more aware of the possibilities of Open Source.


Mark.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Using Gparted

2010-05-24 Thread Rowan Berkeley
On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 00:19 +0100, Pallottini Aymeric
paillom...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hello Rowan, In GParted  when creating the partition just make sure
 that you select linux-swap in the format to field. Once you have
 your new swap partition created you will need to update 2 files with
 the new volume UUID. You can get the new UUID by right clicking on
 your new swap partition in GParted and selecting information. The 2
 files to modify are:
  /etc/fstab (change UUID on the line related to the swap volume)
 /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume
 Once you are done you need to run the following command in the
 terminal:
 sudo dpkg-reconfigure  initramfs-tools
 That command will enable hibernation on the new swap partition.
 Aymeric

Nice. I am writing all this down on old-fashioned sheets of paper, for
careful pondering. Thanks a lot.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu-uk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 67

2010-05-24 Thread Rowan Berkeley
On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 00:19 +0100, Pallottini Aymeric
paillom...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hello Rowan, In GParted  when creating the partition just make sure
 that you select linux-swap in the format to field. Once you have
 your new swap partition created you will need to update 2 files with
 the new volume UUID. You can get the new UUID by right clicking on
 your new swap partition in GParted and selecting information. The 2
 files to modify are:
  /etc/fstab (change UUID on the line related to the swap volume)
 /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume
 Once you are done you need to run the following command in the
 terminal:
 sudo dpkg-reconfigure  initramfs-tools
 That command will enable hibernation on the new swap partition.
 Aymeric

I'm not quite clear about the process of switching from the old swap
partition to the new one, Aymeric. I expect if the machine finds itself
without any swap partition at all it will die a horrible death and be
completely unrecoverable except by using another machine to re-write the
hard disk contents, so I don't want any risk of that. Could you explain
how the hibernate command works? Is the idea that on the next start-up,
the machine will switch to using the new swap partition? How can I be
certain it is no longer using the old one, after the next start-up? I
have to be 100% of this before deleting the old swap partition.


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[ubuntu-uk] Re : Using Gparted

2010-05-24 Thread Rowan Berkeley
Sorry, I forgot to change the subject line on my last message. Must try
harder.


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