Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
On 10/06/13 22:54, Muñiz Piniella, Andrés wrote: Hello all, I was hoping some of you could help me clear this up. My local library is one of the only libraries that is actually getting bigger in the near future. One of the improvements is that they are going to install some new computers. I asked if there was a chance of it being a good chance of installing on those computers something other than windows. The response I got was that the people's network was a government funded initiative and that they where not given the option of installing anything other windows. Bracknell Central Library recently upgraded to Windows 7 and surprised me by also upgrading to Open Office suite. I would have preferred Libre Office, but, yay. The back office and database software etc for Bracknell Forest Borough Council is Suse Enterprise Server. I had asked questions of my local Councillor and got myself a personal tour :-) In reality I believe that the IT department are well aware of benefits of FLOSS but the 'expectation' for public facing stuff is the Windows. It is the expectation which needs to be worked on. UK Government now Mandating Open Source Software Preference http://www.unpan.org/PublicAdministrationNews/tabid/116/mctl/ArticleView/ModuleID/1469/articleId/36389/Default.aspx and for creation of software: 'The default assumption should be in favour of coding in the open and sharing software widely' '...it remains the policy of the government that, where there is no significant overall cost difference between open and non-open source products that fulfil minimum and essential capabilities, open source will be selected on the basis of its inherent flexibility...' https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/making-software/choosing-technology good luck -- alan cocks -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
On 10 June 2013 22:54, Muñiz Piniella, Andrés a75...@alumni.tecnun.eswrote: Hello all, I was hoping some of you could help me clear this up. My local library is one of the only libraries that is actually getting bigger in the near future. One of the improvements is that they are going to install some new computers. I asked if there was a chance of it being a good chance of installing on those computers something other than windows. The response I got was that the people's network was a government funded initiative and that they where not given the option of installing anything other windows. This is richmond upon Thames council. Is it the same for you? Anybody know about this? I was referred to the council info email. There's a combination of issues with local authorities but generally it boils down to support, and the organisations who run support services tend to only support Windows and MS Office on the desktop irrespective of what's running server side. My wife works for a school in Leeds who outsourced their support to RM a few years ago, and despite RM's support for RiscOS and early versions of Linux in the early days of school IT, they'll only support Windows and OS X and only MS Office, despite the head's love of Pages and Keynote. This is the way things are going to go as outsourcing becomes the norm and unless councils find a good reason to adopt FLOSS (and cost doesn't seem to be one, despite what we're told about making savings), it isn't going to change. s/ -- Twitter: @sfgreenwood TBA are particularly glib -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
Simon Greenwood wrote: This is the way things are going to go as outsourcing becomes the norm and unless councils find a good reason to adopt FLOSS (and cost doesn't seem to be one, despite what we're told about making savings), it isn't going to change. Cost is one reason - it's more expensive to support a Linuxy desktop than a Windows one, generally, and by more than the cost of a heavily discounted Windows license. Windows support is easier to find and Windows people are cheaper. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
Dear All In more than 10 years of working with public sector organisations I have never found any appetite to change from Microsoft products, no matter how the case for open source alternatives is made. Partly it is because many public/civil servants have not the faintest awareness of any alternative to Microsoft other than Apple, but the single biggest reason I can ascertain is that government IT infrastructures are so big, and there have been so may failed IT projects and disasters over the years, that nobody has the confidence to contemplate such a major upheaval. Cost saving is not the driver it should be. Most departments still operate their budgets on the use it or lose it principle. If they make savings on their allocated funding this year their budgets will be smaller next year. Politics are also a consideration. Most government IT is outsourced, often to consortiums of the big IT service suppliers. To anybody who operates in the private sector the amount of money they charge government departments beggars belief, but the public sector has been ripped off for so long that the costs are seen as normal. Those consortiums have the ear of government ministers and lobby very very hard. Any new scheme that provided genuine value for money and delivered big savings, whether open or proprietary, would call into question the competence of the decision makers at the top who agreed to the current contracts. In the short to medium term the best I can foresee in the UK public sector is the adoption of some open standards, but it will be a long time before that translates into a adoption of open software. One has to pose the question, though, if a department the size of, say, the MOD decided to go open source tomorrow, are there enough technicians with Linux skills and sufficient experience to take on the job? I suspect not. Nige -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
On 11/06/13 09:28, Avi Greenbury wrote: Simon Greenwood wrote: This is the way things are going to go as outsourcing becomes the norm and unless councils find a good reason to adopt FLOSS (and cost doesn't seem to be one, despite what we're told about making savings), it isn't going to change. Cost is one reason - it's more expensive to support a Linuxy desktop than a Windows one, generally, and by more than the cost of a heavily discounted Windows license. Windows support is easier to find and Windows people are cheaper. Perhaps the solution is to help schools and help them develop computer groups, programming is on the agenda, with computer science, there is an emphasis (certainly within some of the schools where I am) that we need to give chidren / young people access to many different systems as they are not growing up in a Windows only society, (far from it given market share of say Android on mobile devices) Raspberry Pi is getting in ( we have about 10 i think at the computer group I am running) What is needed is more geeks / hackers from the community to help / support these groups, even if its helping in an after school group on a voluntary basis, It may result in children /. young people reciprocating this, so maybe if you're helping with a group, and are good at testing ubuntu, then there is scope to install a alpha / beta of ubuntu and get the children to help test it, feed back etc, maybe teach those that are interested how to file bug reports and get involved, as it's been pointed out the main barriers to getting involved are technical and confidence with the way the reporting system works. Not just schools a local charity where I am is up for installing programming tools, dual booting with Linux (they have heard of it which helps) to help develop programming skills etc, so there are plenty of places that are open minded to change, don't bother with central government and local councils, think smaller and grow from there. Just make sure the backup and help is there for people. Paul -- -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
This is the way things are going to go as outsourcing becomes the norm and unless councils find a good reason to adopt FLOSS (and cost doesn't seem to be one, despite what we're told about making savings), it isn't going to change. Cost is one reason - it's more expensive to support a Linuxy desktop than a Windows one, generally, and by more than the cost of a heavily discounted Windows license. Windows support is easier to find and Windows people are cheaper. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ Having started my IT career a long (long) time ago I remember there used to be a saying No one evers gets sacked for buying IBM. I think the same maxim applies these days if you substitute MS for IBM. (Having said that I'd still happily sack them if I could!) George -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
On 11/06/13 10:30, Nigel Verity wrote: Dear All In more than 10 years of working with public sector organisations I have never found any appetite to change from Microsoft products, no matter how the case for open source alternatives is made. Partly it is because many public/civil servants have not the faintest awareness of any alternative to Microsoft other than Apple, but the single biggest reason I can ascertain is that government IT infrastructures are so big, and there have been so may failed IT projects and disasters over the years, that nobody has the confidence to contemplate such a major upheaval. Cost saving is not the driver it should be. Most departments still operate their budgets on the use it or lose it principle. If they make savings on their allocated funding this year their budgets will be smaller next year. Politics are also a consideration. Most government IT is outsourced, often to consortiums of the big IT service suppliers. To anybody who operates in the private sector the amount of money they charge government departments beggars belief, but the public sector has been ripped off for so long that the costs are seen as normal. Those consortiums have the ear of government ministers and lobby very very hard. Any new scheme that provided genuine value for money and delivered big savings, whether open or proprietary, would call into question the competence of the decision makers at the top who agreed to the current contracts. In the short to medium term the best I can foresee in the UK public sector is the adoption of some open standards, but it will be a long time before that translates into a adoption of open software. One has to pose the question, though, if a department the size of, say, the MOD decided to go open source tomorrow, are there enough technicians with Linux skills and sufficient experience to take on the job? I suspect not. Nige The UK tradition is, price the product to a level that the market will carry, we do not like change, any suggestion of change prompts an almost court-like demand, prove it, followed by cost and liability evaluation. Linux gives me e-mail facilities, free movie viewer, (VLC works in Windows as well !), internet access and I have a Windows 7 machine as well, needed for Silverlight usage. Balance the probabilities, most educational users will have Windows at home, Microsoft has established a huge market, which has created a massive Windows support industry. There might not be a general awareness, that Ubuntu may dual-boot to a Windows 7 machine. So why might Ubuntu appear to be a poorer choice than Windows ? Microsoft has an established market. Nothing begs belief, custom and practice is a longstanding UK tradition. One is less likely to find Ubuntu trained technicians, in education areas, than Microsoft ones, there are insufficient alternatives to change this concept, we might feel as if we are being pushed into a corner to do our own thing, as Ubuntu is not generally seen as an alternative to Windows Other things like copyright law affecting likeness to existing products, narrows the availability of Windows alternatives. For now, Ubuntu may be generally seen as another system, sadly not yet as a real alternative to Windows, The government might aim to promote open source as an alternative to Windows, but they would not be impressed if support for open source was more expensive than Windows. For now, it looks like Windows has it. Michael D -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Chromium - Memory Hog and Crashing
On 11 June 2013 03:51, Jon Farmer j...@bctech.co.uk wrote: My 8Gb machine is 64 bit. Good choice. I moved to Chrome and so far so good. Excellent, glad to hear it. I suggest adding the AdBlock+ extension for a less cluttered web experience. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
I think it'll all be largely irrelevant in a few years... with more and more functionality moving from OS to browser/cloud the operating system is becoming less and less important. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Tweet from Peter Bazalgette (@PeterBazalgette)
Peter Bazalgette (@PeterBazalgette) twitteó a las 1:54 PM on mar, jun 11, 2013: @Andresinmp OK..our 'Envisioning..' report raises open source under its stuff about dig challenges.So clocked.But local auths need to action (https://twitter.com/PeterBazalgette/status/344422386008997889) Obtén la aplicación oficial de Twitter en https://twitter.com/download Sounds promissing. This is answering my question on using gnu/linux in libraries. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
On 11/06/13 09:20, Simon Greenwood wrote: it isn't going to change. It will change if people act to encourage and promote change. The library now using Open Office not MS is the same one which displayed my FLOSS leaflets regularly over the previous 2 years. Maybe they actually read them? Money talks. Or the lack of it. Central Government is doing a lot more with open source philosophy, and standards. Libraries are closing. Schools are under pressure. There is a lot of change about to happen, much of it I suggest is unpredictable. After years of displaying at my local Computer Fair I notice that few people now need to ask what (Ubuntu) is, they know. One of the traders at the fair is even selling my DIY CDs of Ubuntu at another Fair he attends. A local trader in town is interested in selling Ubuntu on some of his second hand laptops. He has shown it to several customers, who were, he said, pretty surprised at how good it was. I think much change has already happened. Android is eating other companies' lunches, Chromebooks are looking very strong and simple. I went to help a person recently, but found he was very happily stuck, in Windows. However, he was desperate to buy a chromebook, for its simplicity. -- alan cocks -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Public library OS choice
El 11/06/2013 23:39, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com escribió: On 11/06/13 09:20, Simon Greenwood wrote: it isn't going to change. It will change if people act to encourage and promote change. The library now using Open Office not MS is the same one which displayed my FLOSS leaflets regularly over the previous 2 years. Maybe they actually read them? Money talks. Or the lack of it. Central Government is doing a lot more with open source philosophy, and standards. Libraries are closing. Schools are under pressure. There is a lot of change about to happen, much of it I suggest is unpredictable. After years of displaying at my local Computer Fair I notice that few people now need to ask what (Ubuntu) is, they know. One of the traders at the fair is even selling my DIY CDs of Ubuntu at another Fair he attends. A local trader in town is interested in selling Ubuntu on some of his second hand laptops. He has shown it to several customers, who were, he said, pretty surprised at how good it was. I think much change has already happened. Android is eating other companies' lunches, Chromebooks are looking very strong and simple. I went to help a person recently, but found he was very happily stuck, in Windows. However, he was desperate to buy a chromebook, for its simplicity. As Alan here does I am hopping to get at least part if his success as he is having. For those of you that feel that change is not happening please read this twitter conversation: https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterBazalgette/status/344422386008997889 When I am near a computer I would like to see the 'envisioning...'document he refers to. Peter is now the chair of the England arts council, the people in charge of the people's network who manage, at least, the public facing end of computers in libraries. I also contacted my local council and made a case for using gnu/linux distros. A) I do not know about your local libraries but mine are still on windowsxp. So they will have to replace it soon with win8. And that has a steeper learning curve than any of the most common distros. B) win8 will require new hardware. And most distros do not require as much. Appart from canonical who could provide the service? And why is windows service cheaper than gnu/linux distros? I thought the reasoning was that one gnu/linux admin was more expensive than a windows admin but a gnu/linux admin could manage over more units, so turned out cheaper. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
