Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 13/02/07, Llywelyn Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:http://www.computershopper.co.uk/?news/news_story.php?id=103873 Kodak is introducing a line of desktop printers and low cost replacement inks. A brave move which I hope will break the dominance of the proprietary cartridge sellers. I hope we'll get Linux drivers for these printer - perhaps a few letters and emails would encourage them? Kodak lost any chance of ever selling anything to me, the day they started litigation over their software patents on the virtual machine. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041003041632172 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 13/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat wrote: How would I write letters on a Kodak printer without purchasing one? Write letters to them saying that you won't consider purchasing their products unless there are Free drivers available. Oh I see. That makes more sense! To be fair, I haven't found lack of drivers to be so much of an issue with printers. Epson seem to be quite happy to GPL their drivers. So they get my business. I still don't quite understand though, why I (or any Linux user) would want to help Kodak become more successful? If they're smart enough to open their drivers then they might get more business. If they aren't, there are plenty of other choices available. Personally, I would enjoy seeing Kodak go out of business - software patents are the biggest threat to Linux (and innovation in general) that there is. http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/en/m/intro/index.html -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 13/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Why do you want to increase the profits of a company that uses software patents to extort cash? Particularly given the threat that software patents pose to Free Software. I'm not. I want them to Free their drivers. This is what, so that you can hang it on the wall? Or perhaps to run one of the printers that you bought from them - thereby increasing their profits. 2. Persuading Kodak to open source their drivers is not a win for the Free Software movement as you so snootily put it. It's begging for support from some company that has no respect for its users. It is a win for the Free Software movement. It is also begging support from some company that has no respect for its users. Anything that helps patent trolls succeed in business is actually a significant loss for everyone. How much of *your* work have you open sourced? None of it. I have released it all under the GPL or the LGPL, Neat trick that - releasing code under the GPL without publishing the source. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 13/02/07, Robbo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not a fan of Software Patents myself but in the meantime you can Patent your software ideas to help Linux... http://www.openinventionnetwork.com / Yes, I have come across it. I have a bit of a problem with Software Patents in general, though; - In 20+ years of coding, I don't think I've ever written anything that warrants patenting. That said, I don't think I've ever seen an algorithm from anyone that warrants a patent. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] renouveau - helping the nvidia driver team.
Could I draw your attention to a thread on the forums about the renouveau tool. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=357369 It seems that anyone with an nvidia card can help out the open source nvidia driver guys by running this small application and sending the results back. I don't know how many sets of results are useful to them, but the thread has only been up there for a few days. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 13/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would argue that letters stating the fact that you're not intending to spend your money on them because of licenses would make a difference. ...and how would you back up that argument - examples of Free software users' letters affecting a hardware manufacturer's choice of licence? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 14/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, seriously, if we do nothing, things are just bound to change, aren't they? That's the way all change has happened in this world. Market forces change the world. Not much else. If GNU/etc represents enough of a revenue to a manufacturer they will provide support/drivers. They will factor in the costs of development and support, and come to a decision based on the business case. Looking a printers, it appears that, quite often, it is actually in their interests to provide support, but not always. It is naive to think that well meaning letters, t-shirts and leaflet campaigns have any bearing. I cannot possibly produce evidence, but that doesn't mean we should stop doing it. There is no evidence that it does harm, all it can do is improve things. So why _not_ do it? I have nothing against you doing it. Go ahead, fill your boots. I would sooner Kodak didn't support us. As I said, the more people to whom they provide support, the more likely they are to be successful. I would like to see Kodak go out of business because of their past behaviour. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 14/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Civil rights for black people, women etc. were never gained through market forces. We're attempting to attain freedom of software for all people, the same applies (to an extent) to us. OK Richard Stallman, I'm sure you're not so insensitive as to compare the civil rights struggle and suffrage to your preference for Open Source software! Another way of describing your attempt to attain freedom of software for all is as begging some company to please give me some software for free. Bit of a different scale from the civil rights movement there. You have no rights at all to driver support from a printer company., Why do you think people should just give you stuff? If GNU/etc represents enough of a revenue to a manufacturer they will provide support/drivers. They will factor in the costs of development and support, and come to a decision based on the business case. As above, if manufacturers are not aware of how much revenue GNU/etc represents, they will ignore it completely. Trust me - the manufacturers know pretty accurately what the open source market is worth. I'm not sure that you do. I would further argue that if you were to avoid buying any consumables from Kodak, and just buy their printer, they wouldn't be making much of a profit anyways. I reckon you're probably right - what's your point? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kodak launch refillable inkjet printers
On 14/02/07, Daniel Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat wrote: OK Richard Stallman, I'm sure you're not so insensitive as to compare the civil rights struggle and suffrage to your preference for Open Source software! In what way would that be insensitive? It would be insensitive to claim that we were on an equal footing. We're in the same ballpark, we're not near to playing on the same team. No, we really aren't. On the one hand we have people's rights to be treated as human beings, to be able to live in safety and earn a living for their familes. Then, over here, we have a preference for a certain type of software licensing... GPL if you please, not merely Open Source... Not the same ballpark - not even close, (and suggesting that it is is pretty offensive, I might add). Another way of describing your attempt to attain freedom of software for all is as begging some company to please give me some software for free. No, it isn't. You have clearly misunderstood what Free software is. If you want to GPL your software, or even use an actual Free licence, that is your business. Whatever your motivations for doing so are, I doubt that they would be a factor in Kodak's decision making process. Kodak's legal obligation is to maximise shareholder value. Nothing else. Perhaps you should buy one of these printers and reverse engineer the drivers - that would be much more meaningful in your struggle against the oppression of the masses by those evil proprietary software companies. Bit of a different scale from the civil rights movement there. You have no rights at all to driver support from a printer company., Why do you think people should just give you stuff? This coming from I hate software patents guy?! I'm not saying people should give us any more than free access to drivers for hardware, free access to software we've paid for. We deserve that. Software patents assert ownership over my code. Code that I wrote independently. They assert ownership over an idea rather than an implementation. That's why I object to them. I don't see how that compares to your demanding that Kodak write you some special software for your special OS. You didn't pay for that - you paid for whatever came in the box. You deserve whatever is detailed on the specification, nothing more. Nobody is forcing you to buy the product. If you don't like the specification, don't buy it. Trust me - the manufacturers know pretty accurately what the open source market is worth. I'm not sure that you do. Now you're arguing against yourself. First you say that we're too insignificant for hardware companies to spend any time or money catering for us and yet, all of a sudden, they have accurate market info on us to gain which they would have to spend, wait for it, time _and_ money on us. You seem to be getting tired. Let me try it in simpler terms. Yes, the market info is pretty accurate - it describes the market for the field of hardware in which each type of manufacturer operates. If they don't have accurate market data, they don't last long. I didn't really venture an opinion as to whether we were too insignificant to be catered to. Regarding printers, it would appear that, yes, quite often it is worth these companies putting in the development time to support your favourite OS. In which case, they put the work in and release a driver - sometimes even an open source one, (sometimes they pull a nvidia). They do it because it benefits their bottom line - i.e. they sell more printers. Either way, it is a cold, unemotional, business decision. It has nothing to do with ideals of freedom of software to all. Anyway, I doubt that we are going to change each others' minds, and we seem to be having an unfortunate effect on Baza - I'm going to bed. Got to be fresh for the morning - that proprietary software doesn't write itself, you know... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Etiquette
On 06/02/07, Caroline Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We seem to spend far to much discussing this. I've seen horrors like top posting done by core developers on other lists are really no-one cares ;) Good point . Discussions about how to hold discussions. Meta-discussions? giggle Where would it end? I propose a new thread Discussion about how much we discuss the way in which we should conduct discussions Seconded? anyone? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] stop frame animation
On 05/02/07, London School of Puppetry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there an OS programme that can be used to animate still images- something similar to Flash? - I have been asked by a local secondary school. They have one computer with Linux installed. Caroline lsp Have you looked at synfig? http://www.synfig.com/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Fwd: Fwd: ADSL problem
On 27/12/06, Dave Briggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ wget http://slashdot.org --19:13:44-- http://slashdot.org/ = `index.html' Resolving slashdot.org... 1.0.0.0 Connecting to slashdot.org|1.0.0.0|:80... [endlessly] Gah! Any more ideas? -- Dave Briggs Sorry if this has been covered already, but it looks like there might be some oddities about the way the Linksys ADSL2 modem forwards the ISP DNS details. (You did say that that was the modem you were using, I think?) Your output for the wget seems to be resolving slashdot to 1.0.0.0 This guy http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Ubuntu/2006-05/msg01681.html seems to be having a similar problem, and he mentions a workaround (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StaticDnsWithDhcp)https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StaticDnsWithDhcpwhich appears to involve setting static DNS entries. I'd try the static dns entries if you haven't already. Another interesting page mentioning a similar issue is http://blog.maniacmartin.com/2006/12/07/turning-a-modem-into-a-router/ good luck, Pat -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Looking to jump into Ubuntu
On 03/12/06, Paul Broadbent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only problem with just buying a laptop from a normal shop is that you'll have to pay the Windows tax (included in the cost of the laptop will be the cost of them having to pay for Windows), so if you don't want windows (or already own it) it's probably worth looking around for a shop that specialises in linux or at least offers laptops with no operating system pre-installed. Has anyone had any experience with Novatech? http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/nbranges.html They give you the option of buying their laptops without a preinstalled OS, so I was thinking of replacing my aging Acer with one of their machines... Pat -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Non-GPL Linux Kernel Modules Banned Starting January 2008 (??)
On 14/12/06, alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Non-GPL Linux Kernel Modules Banned Starting January 2008 ... I note Linus' response which I find a bit reassuring, but I do hope the more 'common' end of common sense can prevail, particularly in ubuntu! -- I'm in two minds about this issue. For one point, I think that the GPL is the strength of Linux. Without it, we would never be where we are now - and it worries me about how, every year, more and more of my system becomes closed-source. Originally it was just the nvidia/ATI drivers. Then audio video codecs. Sun saw sense and have (or will be) GPLing Java. Then there's ndiswrapper as a means of running binary drivers for wireless networking hardware. Taken to its extreme, I don't want to end up with a closed source OS. I like to tinker, dammit! :-) On the other hand, there's the whole Freedom aspect to consider. There's no way that they can prevent Closed Source elements being included, because we could just remove the patch that enforced GPL only patches. This is a freedom that you don't get with closed source stuff of course! As a real-life user myself, I wouldn't be too upset if they managed to enforce GPL only. I've had a lot of benefit from other people's work that they GPLed in good faith. I would like to continue to do so. When organisations manage to circumvent the spirit of the GPL and include closed source into our system they sell-out everyone who contributed openly. I'm afraid that I side a lot more with RMS than Linus over GPL issues. /end-rant Pat. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Non-GPL Linux Kernel Modules Banned Starting January 2008 (??)
On 14/12/06, Gargoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14 Dec 2006, at 20:33, Pat wrote: On 14/12/06, alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Non-GPL Linux Kernel Modules Banned Starting January 2008 ... I note Linus' response which I find a bit reassuring, but I do hope the more 'common' end of common sense can prevail, particularly in ubuntu! -- I'm in two minds about this issue. ... Snip ... Me too, that's quite a tough one but I think I am favouring Linus' (and Ubuntu's) way of looking at it. Some parts of the system are free and open (GPL) because people put in the time and effort to write and maintain those parts. Others are not free because companies have spent millions developing XYZ and they want to earn some cash back! Currently I can install Ubuntu using the default settings, and get only software that comes under GPL. Or, I can enable universe and multiverse and get software that does not quite fit that mould... It's my choice. Absolutely - I agree 100%. I wish I was principled enough to not enable the non-free repos, but I like my A/V stuff... I like the approach that we can choose whether or not to allow the non-free onto our systems with just a couple of clicks. This is why I replaced my Mandrake systems with Ubuntu when Warty was released. I'm just glad that there are enough Free Software zealots around to make a fuss about the lapses into closed-source mediocrity. What we have to remember, as far as I can see it, is that, without the many eyes approach, without the amateur coders who take one project and improve it, and pass it on to the next guy to improve it to fit his requirements, we lose what made GNU Linux such a powerful force. That is what the proprietary software corporations cannot compete with. I can also see there is a potential problem on the legal side of things for companies like SUSE (Novell), since it could possibly leave them short if they ever had to uphold their licence in a legal case. However, on the other hand if the likes if ATI/nVidia do not release GPL versions of their drivers then linux will fail! I am still waiting for a particularly irritating bug in the nvidia drivershttp://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=354767#c4to be fixed. It doesn't affect many people, relatively, so I doubt it ever will. I bet it would have been fixed already, if it had been an Xorg driver - might even have had a go myself. My point is that binary modules are a compromise that most of us, including me, are prepared to make. If GNU/Linux becomes dependent on closed source, then it *will* have failed - and it won't become that way over night, it will be by a process of incremental losses. Who is going to install an operating system onto their machine if it can't even drive a gfx card to it's full potential? The number of users/customers isn't the measure of excellence.:-) GNU/Linux doesn't exist to support nvidia/ATI etc. it is supposed to be the other way around! The hardware manufacturers make money from sales of hardware to Free Software users, but Free Software developers don't make money from supporting nvidia/ATI etc. Accepting the closed-source drivers into Linux removes the pressure on the hardware companies to provide Free software. all the best, Pat. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Done wrote my MP!
On 24/11/06, Matthew Saunders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have emailed my MP for Chelmsford, Essex with a similar letter to some posted here. (Anyone else come from Essex on this list?) Yes, Southend here - I'll be emailling David Ames today. I had quite encouraging responses from him one of our Euro MPs (Andrew Duff) over the Software Patent issue. I think that they rather like it when they discover a new issue that motivates voters. Particularly when it doesn't go contrary to their party line. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] GTK and C
On 19/11/06, Pete Ryland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why bother with gvim? It's less convenient than running vim in a shell. You know, I really can't answer that! There's no logical reason for it, it just seems to depend on where I am when I start editting. If I'm on the desktop, I click the gvim icon, and if I'm on the terminal I type vi Oddly enough, I use gedit to read non-code text files that I'm not modifying... again, I can't really explain it. Also, you should be using make rather than shell scripts, and ideally autoconf/automake for portability's sake. Yes, good advice, and I'm with you on that. Though, up until recently, I've not done anything in C that was more than a few lines long or intended to be run by anyone else. I'm not really a C developer - I write Java (mostly) at work, but I find it can be a bit unwieldy at home, and I like to do something different at the end of the day anyway. I like Netbeans for Java, and that seems to have acquired a C/C++ environment now - I might play with that next. I had to smile at the comment I saw on Slashdot recently - You don't need an IDE on Unix, Unix _is_ a development environment. cheers, Pat -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Daft stuff for a friday afternoon conversation.
On 16/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting nicholas butler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Okay im prempting the friday but im thinking about this now. I know we all love to neticorrect each other on the various issues related to etiquette and manners so why not lets see if we can make a news story from it ? Top or Bottom ? Posting on a Email that is. Should we ?, could we ?, can we ? have a national Proper Posting day. Where every thread loving , mail list bashing geek spends the day ensuring that they dont top post and that they add a link which points to a suitable TopPost/Bottom post website. Lets educate our netizens one email at a time ? now , ive lit the fuse, I shall step back . personally i think it's a none issue that wastes everyones time [including mine for replying to this email :)] I agree totally. Perhaps it would be a better use of all our resources (and much more polite) if we were to try to concentrate on the content of a message rather than the style/method in which it was delivered. I don't think anyone ever subscribed to a mailing list to be educated on their grammar, posting style, choice of email client etc. Unless, of course, it was a mailing list called something like grammar_posting_style_and_choice_of_email_client_etc_UK... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
