Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
On 25/09/2007, David M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you clarify what is meant by join the Ubuntu-UK team? I do have a Launchpad account, and I am a member of this list, but is there some other additional joining process that I am not aware of? Launchpad allows a team to be registered. It keeps track of who is in a team. Ubuntu-UK is an open team; any user can join and no approval is required. Unfortunately Launchpad has little concept of this list or list members so simply being on the mailing list won't let launchpad know your a UK Team member. What you can do is go to: https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk There should be a big green button roughly in the middle labelled Join this team It will prompt you to register or log in, then you should be a member. You may be in launchpads UK Team already, you can check the list here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk/+members There are a few David's registered as UK Team members, not sure if any of them are you though. Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Just a quick note to any potential Ubuntu-UK contact volunteers out there. This is your last chance to register yourself as a candidate. You have until 23:59 this evening to enter your name here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/PoC_candidates to be put forward for the voting stage. Cheers Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Thanks for your reply, Alan.. Comments below.. Alan Pope wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 23:30 +0100, David M wrote: The process sounds reasonable 'in the large' but definitely not in the detail. *Please* bear in mind that there are people who don't do IRC This is why it has been made a vote on launchpad and not IRC. If the vote had happened on IRC when it was scheduled to on Sunday 23rd there would have been about 10 or so people voting. Hardly democratic I'm sure you'll agree when there are over 250 people in the team (according to launchpad). Glurk! I wasn't even aware that there had been a proposal to vote on Sunday 23?!! When was such a proposal announced? I certainly don't recall seeing any mention of it on the mailing list.. The subject of the process for voting in a new Leader/Point Of Contact for the LoCo has been brought up (by myself) at multiple meetings in the past but it has either not been discussed or postponed for one reason or another.=20 Well, I've never taken part in an IRC-meeting, and I rather suspect that many people who are active on the list also haven't, either. I also rather suspect that online discussions requiring a right here, right now time commitment don't always work as well as the more gentle - and yes, more prolonged - discussion on an issue over some time on a list, etc, where people can take part at a time that suits them. If somebody can't make a fixed time appointment, they are more likely to just shrug it off and put it off until some future time, whereas a thread started on a non-realtime list, etc, does sit there as a prominent reminder more actively begging followup, perhaps. Now we are in a situation where the present leader has stepped down and we are looking for a new leader with no process in place to deal with that.=20 Indeed, and I do want to emphasise that I am glad that people are trying to put a process in place, but I am also concerned that the process is as democratic and as effective as possible. Well. What actually happened was that it was suggested in the meeting on IRC and subsequently on the list last week that the vote should happen on Sunday 23rd, but as not many people turned up on Sunday 23rd it seemed unfair to hold the vote then. Where was the proposed vote announced? I don't recall seeing mention of it on the list? That's a mere two days away! Many people won't have even read this message until sometime tomorrow, possibly even later, giving even less time to respond.=20 There have _already_ been mails asking for people to step up and add themselves to the wiki to put themselves forward. This isn't the first mail to mention it. There has been over a week to do this. We merely decided to extend the period to give a couple more days for any extra stragglers to add (or remove) themselves. Yeah, ok, fair enough. But prior to the new deadline date, I am not aware that a deadline for nominations had actually been announced. We all know how human nature is such that if a deadline is not actually set, many people will just hum and haw about making a decision and put it off until the last minute, whereas a set deadline tends to act as a more definite prompt for action. You are probably right that enough time has elapsed for nominations, but for future occasions it should probably be that an actual deadline is set, and notified, adequate time in advance, and that the nomination period should be long enough to allow potential candidates to give some time for thought. A GB general election (which some would consider is more important) gets the vote over and done with in a day for most people. Can we not cope with a few days voting I wonder? Realworld elections are also not announced with just a few days notice, however. They are announced a long time in advance to allow potential candidates to consider themselves for nomination, and equally importantly, to allow voters to make alternative voting arrangements (for example, in the realworld, postal or proxy voting) if they cannot otherwise vote during the voting period. What if a potential voter has already made plans to go away for long weekend this weekend? Indeed, what if somebody is already away on holiday and won't return until after the voting period? Again, that's too short a time. A week should be allowed for voting. (And why stop at 21:00, rather than 23:59? Or are people who check their email in the evening to be disbarred from participation?) =20 Why not 03:00, are people who check their email late at night disbarred from participation?=20 Well, indeed, but a cutoff has to be set somewhere, and if it starts at midnight it is at least fairly logical to also close at midnight. Past experience tells me that whatever scheme is concocted, *someone* will object. I am not trying to belittle your objections, I can see valid arguments in your points, but please don't think that this was done
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Glurk! I wasn't even aware that there had been a proposal to vote on Sunday 23?!! When was such a proposal announced? I certainly don't recall seeing any mention of it on the mailing list.. .. Where was the proposed vote announced? I don't recall seeing mention of it on the list? It was in the thread 'Position for Ubuntu-UK Contact' - Here's my reply to the suggestion that the vote be held on IRC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2007-September/007092.html Sure. But I do hope the Ubuntu community as a whole is not getting too carried away with the fluffy-ness and rightness of the (African) ubuntu concept to close its eyes to the possibility that sadly any community may still have some members who may be less honest or have lower standards of integrity than others, and that any community needs to have ways to overcome such problems, or at least to be aware of the possibility of them occurring. Point taken, but we have two points in our favour. 1) Any sudden upsurge in registration of Ubuntu-UK members would indicate that this was happening, so we'd have to look into this further. 2) I don't think that the job of Ubuntu-UK LoCo contact is 'glamorous' enough for want of a better word to attract an incredible amount of corruption in the election process. I could of course be wrong ;-) but I'd like to think that we're bright enough to see when we're being blagged! Cheers Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Sorry I couldnt make it to the meeting last night, I think I caught something on the tube :-( No, it wasn't an Elephant or a Hippo or some other assorted animal (I know what you Ubuntu people think) Regards, On 23/09/2007, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Nik Butler has announced that he is stepping down, the position of LoCo contact will shortly become vacant. This of course means that Ubuntu-UK needs a new contact. Due to some ambiguity as to how we should vote for a new member, tonights IRC meeting focused on establishing the fairest way to do so. The process which follows is the result of that meeting, and it's been designed to be as fair as possible. For this reason we would ask any candidates to please stick to it. Late entries will not be accepted. Candidates for the Loco contact position have until 23:59 on Wednesday 26th September 2007 to register an interest by adding their names to the following page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/PoC_candidates Names will then be taken from the candidate page, and added to a launchpad poll which will appear here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk/+polls The poll will be open for voting by Ubuntu-UK members registered with the launchpad Ubuntu-UK team https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk from 0:00 Thursday 28th September 2007 until 21:00 Sunday 30th September 2007. At or around the close of voting, the winning candidate will be announced on the mailing list, forums and IRC. NOTE: All times quoted are BST, not UTC. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Matthew G Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Hi Matt, I know what you mean about the tube, I used to catch Gideons, like ninjas they are; how to catch a Gideon- go into a public building and phone the desk and say I seem to have no bible in my room and hide behind the sofa, or similarly large furnishings and wait! Actually I mostly caught colds and flus on the tube, now I don't have that problem as I've moved to the frozen north, Lancashire. From: Matthew Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:45:18 +0100 Sorry I couldnt make it to the meeting last night, I think I caught something on the tube :-( No, it wasn't an Elephant or a Hippo or some other assorted animal (I know what you Ubuntu people think) Regards, On 23/09/2007, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Nik Butler has announced that he is stepping down, the position of LoCo contact will shortly become vacant. This of course means that Ubuntu-UK needs a new contact. Due to some ambiguity as to how we should vote for a new member, tonights IRC meeting focused on establishing the fairest way to do so. The process which follows is the result of that meeting, and it's been designed to be as fair as possible. For this reason we would ask any candidates to please stick to it. Late entries will not be accepted. Candidates for the Loco contact position have until 23:59 on Wednesday 26th September 2007 to register an interest by adding their names to the following page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/PoC_candidates Names will then be taken from the candidate page, and added to a launchpad poll which will appear here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk/+polls The poll will be open for voting by Ubuntu-UK members registered with the launchpad Ubuntu-UK team https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk from 0:00 Thursday 28th September 2007 until 21:00 Sunday 30th September 2007. At or around the close of voting, the winning candidate will be announced on the mailing list, forums and IRC. NOTE: All times quoted are BST, not UTC. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Matthew G Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ _ Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live - http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
Hi David, On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 23:30 +0100, David M wrote: The process sounds reasonable 'in the large' but definitely not in the detail. *Please* bear in mind that there are people who don't do IRC This is why it has been made a vote on launchpad and not IRC. If the vote had happened on IRC when it was scheduled to on Sunday 23rd there would have been about 10 or so people voting. Hardly democratic I'm sure you'll agree when there are over 250 people in the team (according to launchpad). So it was decided (as most people didn't turn up [probably because they didn't realise they needed to]) by those people who _did_ turn up that something should be done. The mail you saw was the result of a discussion between a number of interested parties. and also that there are people who might well do IRC but aren't able to participate in a particular meeting for various reasons. It's not on for a self-selecting few to present /faits accomplis/ with no further chance for dialog, discussion or amendment. The subject of the process for voting in a new Leader/Point Of Contact for the LoCo has been brought up (by myself) at multiple meetings in the past but it has either not been discussed or postponed for one reason or another. Now we are in a situation where the present leader has stepped down and we are looking for a new leader with no process in place to deal with that. Although I am sure (I hope?) it is not intended as such, the proposed timescale looks very much like an undemocratic attempt to steamroller something through at high-speed (must be a rocket-propelled steamroller) in a ludicrously short timescale, and DOES NOT allow due time for community members to organise themselves not only to stand as candidates, but to participate in the voting process. Well. What actually happened was that it was suggested in the meeting on IRC and subsequently on the list last week that the vote should happen on Sunday 23rd, but as not many people turned up on Sunday 23rd it seemed unfair to hold the vote then. I would strongly urge a rethinking of the timescale involved. That's a mere two days away! Many people won't have even read this message until sometime tomorrow, possibly even later, giving even less time to respond. There have _already_ been mails asking for people to step up and add themselves to the wiki to put themselves forward. This isn't the first mail to mention it. There has been over a week to do this. We merely decided to extend the period to give a couple more days for any extra stragglers to add (or remove) themselves. I would suggest that a week should be a minimum turnaround time for such things. I'm sure there is nothing so vitally pressing that it can't wait a few days longer and in doing so, being more accountable and democratic. There already was a week - between the date of the last meeting (16th Sept) and the date of the proposed vote (23rd Sept). It's now 1 week and 3 days. With a few days of voting at the end of the week. A GB general election (which some would consider is more important) gets the vote over and done with in a day for most people. Can we not cope with a few days voting I wonder? The poll will be open for voting by Ubuntu-UK members registered with the launchpad Ubuntu-UK team https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk from 0:00 Thursday 28th September 2007 until 21:00 Sunday 30th September 2007. Again, that's too short a time. A week should be allowed for voting. (And why stop at 21:00, rather than 23:59? Or are people who check their email in the evening to be disbarred from participation?) Why not 03:00, are people who check their email late at night disbarred from participation? Past experience tells me that whatever scheme is concocted, *someone* will object. I am not trying to belittle your objections, I can see valid arguments in your points, but please don't think that this was done maliciously, with intent to skew votes. It was merely done to get it over and done with promptly and efficiently without a lengthy drawn out protracted discussion. Remember, not everybody necessarily checks their personal email every day. Not everybody necessarily has the ability to respond 'instantly' when there are other pressures on their time. And not least, shocking as it may be to some, sometimes people are just away from the computer for a few days.. Indeed. I was on holiday with near-zero net connectivity when the meeting took place on the 16th September. I only knew that there was going to be a vote within one week when I happened to be able to get some bandwidth and saw a mail sent directly to me (not a mailing list mail). So I appreciate this point. Using Launchpad as a voting platform seems reasonable apart from one thing: how do we identify and authenticate voters? You need a launchpad ID and membership of the ubuntu-uk team. The actual votes will be anonymous however. There is NO way to figure out who voted for
[ubuntu-uk] [IMPORTANT NOTICE] - Ubuntu-UK Contact
As Nik Butler has announced that he is stepping down, the position of LoCo contact will shortly become vacant. This of course means that Ubuntu-UK needs a new contact. Due to some ambiguity as to how we should vote for a new member, tonights IRC meeting focused on establishing the fairest way to do so. The process which follows is the result of that meeting, and it's been designed to be as fair as possible. For this reason we would ask any candidates to please stick to it. Late entries will not be accepted. Candidates for the Loco contact position have until 23:59 on Wednesday 26th September 2007 to register an interest by adding their names to the following page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/PoC_candidates Names will then be taken from the candidate page, and added to a launchpad poll which will appear here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk/+polls The poll will be open for voting by Ubuntu-UK members registered with the launchpad Ubuntu-UK team https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk from 0:00 Thursday 28th September 2007 until 21:00 Sunday 30th September 2007. At or around the close of voting, the winning candidate will be announced on the mailing list, forums and IRC. NOTE: All times quoted are BST, not UTC. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
