Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
Matthew Daubney wrote: On 17/01/10 12:37, alan c wrote: Tony Pursell wrote: Conversion is a marketing job. +1 Surely by educating users we will help stem a lot of the negative press and the uneducated retail staff problem though? Don't you think that a lot of what people absorb is from marketing in all its forms? It is so universal and all encompassing, that anything that is NOT marketed does not actually exist, well, not in the minds of the masses, anyway. Re writing Descartes.. I am visibly marketed, therefore I exist :-) -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On 17/01/10 12:37, alan c wrote: Tony Pursell wrote: Conversion is a marketing job. +1 Surely by educating users we will help stem a lot of the negative press and the uneducated retail staff problem though? Training can only be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few who cannot have MS Windows. If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. A good reason would be a lot of end users asking for training. Where will the attendees come from? This is why I'd love to run a big event. If I could I'd stick a bit in the local rag about it (I'd happily pay a little bit for the ad) and so on. I would be aiming it at the general populace, hopefully pulling in some of the users we never see. If we can get some retail staff in too then a little might go a long way. You never know. -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
Steve wrote: On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. So what would you like to be taught? Installation stuff, using the Terminal, problem solving using terminal, and how to correct the problem once found. I still cant use my laptop for watching any vids or using the network. Basic stuff, but stuff that you can only learn with somebody actually showing you. Its ok reading, but its really confusing reading through all that stuff. John -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I believe that the course content and arrangements are an issue that can be solved as required. I think the major question is - Who is going to, or wants to, attend? Maybe this is a chicken and egg situation with 'marketing'? There is already a ubuntu desktop training course, surely any materials can be based around this, that way if someone then wants to undertake the online ubuntu desktop training course they can do. In fact it does not cost that much to do anyway, so why not charge a fee that covers the online course bit, plus a bit extra to cover the tutors time, (that way you have tutor support), at the end of it you end up with i guess a certificate to say you have completed that course. no point in re-inventing the wheel if you are to do informal courses, then again base them on the course requirements as the ubuntu desktop training manual is already written and well known,. Just an idea Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Ubuntu 9.10 is out : Visit www.ubuntu.com for details DCGLUG MEETINGS - Details on www.dcglug.org.uk/drupal6, - please click on Group meetings link on right hand side Aged 11 - 19 then dfey may be for you, please goto http://www.dfey.org for more details -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAktUuaEACgkQaggq1k2FJq29wACfYnr9NnnUvyceljKiXVTeRAOb r3wAnRhY1FPsMWrNxMmI/NOYU0Q7Srpm =hDZ8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
2010/1/18 John Matthews jake...@sky.com Steve wrote: On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. So what would you like to be taught? Installation stuff, using the Terminal, problem solving using terminal, and how to correct the problem once found. I still cant use my laptop for watching any vids or using the network. Basic stuff, but stuff that you can only learn with somebody actually showing you. Its ok reading, but its really confusing reading through all that stuff. John Hi John, Try this for restricted formats: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats ged. ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:13:34 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: Steve wrote: On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. So what would you like to be taught? Installation stuff, using the Terminal, problem solving using terminal, and how to correct the problem once found. I still cant use my laptop for watching any vids or using the network. Basic stuff, but stuff that you can only learn with somebody actually showing you. Its ok reading, but its really confusing reading through all that stuff. This is what I suspect a lot of people might want. Which to me is more of a workshop type thing. Bring your 'puter and get it sorted. -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:42:32 -, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I believe that the course content and arrangements are an issue that can be solved as required. I think the major question is - Who is going to, or wants to, attend? Maybe this is a chicken and egg situation with 'marketing'? There is already a ubuntu desktop training course, surely any materials can be based around this, that way if someone then wants to undertake the online ubuntu desktop training course they can do. In fact it does not cost that much to do anyway, so why not charge a fee that covers the online course bit, plus a bit extra to cover the tutors time, (that way you have tutor support), at the end of it you end up with i guess a certificate to say you have completed that course. no point in re-inventing the wheel if you are to do informal courses, then again base them on the course requirements as the ubuntu desktop training manual is already written and well known,. Just an idea The more you look the more material there is, I dodn’t think that’s the problem. What we need are some potential customers and find out what they want. A bit of market research. -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
How about a training on basic Linux security such as monitoring server access, failed access attempts etc. Preferably without taking a desktop type user through Nagios, Munin and Monit. Has any thought gone into the delivery method yet such as Classroom or the numerous online delivery methods? Dave -Original Message- From: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: 18 January 2010 20:16 To: UK Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:13:34 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: Steve wrote: On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. So what would you like to be taught? Installation stuff, using the Terminal, problem solving using terminal, and how to correct the problem once found. I still cant use my laptop for watching any vids or using the network. Basic stuff, but stuff that you can only learn with somebody actually showing you. Its ok reading, but its really confusing reading through all that stuff. This is what I suspect a lot of people might want. Which to me is more of a workshop type thing. Bring your 'puter and get it sorted. -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4784 (20100118) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
Jon Spriggs wrote: I have forwarded the e-mail to the uk-hackspaces mailing list, as there are several regional hackspaces across the UK (London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds) who may be able to help - in some cases with venue and in others with knowledge. [...] useful for a few people just to run little local 'pilot' events, to see what the issues really are, and what seemed to work. I run a monthly Infopoint table (non trading) at the local computer fair with much FOSS information including Ubuntu. Local 'Ubuntu Clubs' would be useful, and I do not mean existing LUGs which are great for more serious users. They could be 'LUG Child' status, as long as it was ok to discuss lots of non technical things too. I wondered if an option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening class at the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening classes) I have talked to my local 'adult learning' person and it seems obvious that it is expected that the teachers/trainers are qualified as teachers with few exceptions. They tend to be employed from existing college staff, as part time, for example. The establishment. The person herself has a lifetime investment of Microsoft product knowledge with the consequent view of Free Software, and also, if her clients started to use Open Office, she would have to learn it all again. Not a motivator for her. Not only that but her clients literally all use Windows so the expectation for them is MS courses. Chicken and egg. It needs someone to break the cycle and take the lead, although it might be easier for this to be done outside of the established educational organisations. Unless you know of a politician or councillor or high ranking local gov official who already favours FOSS. or approach the University of the Third Age This might be useful if it could be followed up. The U3A national magazine has had a number of letters favouring Ubuntu. I am in U3A in Bracknell. I run an online group for 'computers beyond beginners'. Not FOSS, just computers generally. An online group is pretty novel for U3a. The activities are traditionally sitting listening to a central speaker. However, I have to say that of the local membership of several hundred, my group has only a few members and 'online' seems to be a concept which has not yet caught on. I gave a talk on GNU/Linux and Ubuntu a while ago to the main computer group. Even group members would be unlikely to re install their (Windows) OS. With one or two exceptions in a group of around 30 members. I included a short video of Eben Moglen. One of the group commented Moglen was a 'rabid socialist'. Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to continue with their existing OS whatever it is. There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know, to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage, including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice. Local Ubuntu Clubs sound like a good idea to me though. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On 17 Jan 2010 at 10:02, alan c wrote: Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to continue with their existing OS whatever it is. There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know, to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage, including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice. This is just the way things are - for most people, computers are MS Windows. They always have been, and always will be. (And guess what? Even I still use XP as my main OS on my desktop computer because it still does things that Ubuntu cannot do.) I'm sure that whatever we do in the way of Ubuntu training must be targetted at people who already have Ubuntu (or at least a need for Ubuntu). We cannot think that these training sessions are aimed at converting people. Conversion is a marketing job. Training can only be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few who cannot have MS Windows. If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. Something more than its just good for people to know that there is another OS other that MS. Tony -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
snip If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. Something more than its just good for people to know that there is another OS other that MS. Is this information of any help to the cause? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8463516.stm Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
snip If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. Something more than its just good for people to know that there is another OS other that MS. Is this information of any help to the cause? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8463516.stm If you are interested, this is the original German statement. https://www.bsi.bund.de/cln_183/ContentBSI/presse/Pressemitteilungen/Sicherheitsluecke_IE_150110.html Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:04:38 -, Tony Pursell a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk wrote: On 17 Jan 2010 at 10:02, alan c wrote: Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to continue with their existing OS whatever it is. There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know, to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage, including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice. This is just the way things are - for most people, computers are MS Windows. They always have been, and always will be. (And guess what? Even I still use XP as my main OS on my desktop computer because it still does things that Ubuntu cannot do.) I'm sure that whatever we do in the way of Ubuntu training must be targetted at people who already have Ubuntu (or at least a need for Ubuntu). We cannot think that these training sessions are aimed at converting people. Conversion is a marketing job. Training can only be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few who cannot have MS Windows. If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. Something more than its just good for people to know that there is another OS other that MS. Tony Beat me to it. I know from talking to people in the pub that a awful lot of people have no interest in another operating system. Their computer comes with one and that’s what they’re going to use. As you say training will probably have to be aimed at existing Ubuntu users. The problem then is; are they Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu users. I have, in the past, done quite a bit of training at all levels and hands on for the vast majority is the way to go. People generally don’t like lectures, they prefer to do something. The one problem with courses aimed at people that already use computers is knowing what level to start at and how fast to go with out causing frustration for everybody. I found it best to have one 'Teacher' and an assistant for every 3-4 people. I’d be happy to help as I rather like doing this sort of thing. -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
Tony Pursell wrote: Conversion is a marketing job. +1 Training can only be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few who cannot have MS Windows. If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people. A good reason would be a lot of end users asking for training. Where will the attendees come from? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
Steve wrote: I know from talking to people in the pub that a awful lot of people have no interest in another operating system. that could be where marketing comes in Their computer comes with one and that’s what they’re going to use. As you say training will probably have to be aimed at existing Ubuntu users. The problem then is; are they Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu users. I have, in the past, done quite a bit of training at all levels and hands on for the vast majority is the way to go. People generally don’t like lectures, they prefer to do something. The one problem with courses aimed at people that already use computers is knowing what level to start at and how fast to go with out causing frustration for everybody. I found it best to have one 'Teacher' and an assistant for every 3-4 people. I’d be happy to help as I rather like doing this sort of thing. I believe that the course content and arrangements are an issue that can be solved as required. I think the major question is - Who is going to, or wants to, attend? Maybe this is a chicken and egg situation with 'marketing'? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events
On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews jake...@sky.com wrote: I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be good to have taught lessons. John. So what would you like to be taught? -- Steve -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
