Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
Besides the obvious issues with privacy and proprietary etc - small orgs have all sorts of practical problems with Google - stuff just not working very well and being frustrating. Also sync not working properly etc. Better to pay an expert (and opensource) provider of groupware services? But it has to be borne in mind that small orgs are often offline for a while as they use cheap broadband services and rubbish routers and don't have regular tech support. Worse, it can be really hard to migrate from Google - I've had people whose sites have broken because Google changed their architecture and I realised there was no export tool - we had to hand copy the content page-by-page - to name but one. If you really want to use a free, hosted collaboration system, Huddle is more difficult to figure out but also more reliable, a UK company and has a transparent privacy policy. For small orgs, unless people have a strong need for a seamless groupware solution, I'd go for a 'bits and bobs' approach depending on what they really need - Scheduleworld, Dropbox (sorry, but UbuntuOne needs to have x-platform clients), Firefox sync. Better still, a simple terminal server with neatx (plus can use any or all of the ancillary third-party services to avoid running complex groupware on their own server). Pretty much any web hosting package will include enough email addies and also imap. Paula On 27/07/10 21:40, Philip Stubbs wrote: If you need to get up and running quickly, and resources are tight, have you thought about using Google Apps for your domain? Register a domain name, set up google apps with that domain name, and you instantly have 100 email accounts all for the cost of the domain registration. Client machines can be anything with web access and a browser. Instantly have ability to work away from the office. Later, as time and resources allow, you could either upgrade to the paid for version, or migrate away to running your own servers, as required. I would be interested in what you find in the way of ERP. There is half an idea floating around inside my head that concerning that. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:05:43 +0100, pmgazz pmg...@gmx.co.uk wrote: Worse, it can be really hard to migrate from Google - I've had people whose sites have broken because Google changed their architecture and I realised there was no export tool - we had to hand copy the content page-by-page - to name but one. The Data Liberation Front [0] exists to try and improve this. Dropbox (sorry, but UbuntuOne needs to have x-platform clients) It's coming. [1] JT [0] http://www.dataliberation.org/ [1] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/601218 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
Great! By the way, just bought some Ebuyer extra value (Clevo) laptops which they're selling without preinstalled OS (Pentium Dual Core T4300 2.1GHz, 2GB RAM, 320GB HDD, 15.6 HD*)*. I put Lucid on without any hassle - touchpad a bit annoying but overall a nice sturdy machine with OK keyboard (I've lalready got a Clevo from Novatech but it's chassis is rly flimsy, battery catch fell off after a couple of months making it very hard to carry around and the keyboard is kinda spongy). Not bad for £299 apiece. I'll let you know if anything falls off over the next couple of months ;) Paula It's coming. [1] JT [0] http://www.dataliberation.org/ [1] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/601218 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
I've been reading the list for a few weeks (and posted once to get gmane set up and tested) in preparation for an upcoming job. I have a contact who is keen on using open source wherever possible in a new startup company, so I am looking for any kind of resources which might help in such a situation. I've been using open source software for years, but only in large corporations in fairly narrow applications. I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? -- Jim Price -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 18:42, Jim Price wrote: I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? For an SME I'd be thinking (server end first) about an alternative to Microsoft SBS, e.g. Email, Shared drives, Proxy, Content Filters etc. We (The Open Learning Centre) get asked quite a lot about business applications rather than Ubuntu itself. Ubuntu makes a great OS for running apps like: Virtually any Web/MySQL/PHP app, CRM, Doc Management, Asterisk (VOIP PBX) Even ERP systems. If the new company is a startup then Ubuntu would be a great choice on the desktop, but if there is already a legacy of Windows and familiarity with it, then this is a hard sell for a small firm where the cost benefits are not significant enough on their own. A sometimes good route is to use cross-platform apps like OpenOffice.org, Mozilla Thunderbird/Lightning and run them on Windows for while. This makes a transition to Ubuntu slightly easier although TB packaging in Ubuntu is sub-optimal currently. Hope this helps. Al -- The Open Learning Centre http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 19:24, Alan Lord (News) wrote: On 27/07/10 18:42, Jim Price wrote: I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? For an SME I'd be thinking (server end first) about an alternative to Microsoft SBS, e.g. Email, Shared drives, Proxy, Content Filters etc. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about email yet. It is likely to start sufficiently small that I'm thinking using their ISP email would be a good place to start - when they get offices and an ISP. I have the opportunity to avoid SMB to the clients for shared drives, as it is all being done from scratch. I'm tempted to try an sshfs implementation to take some of the burden away from making it secure. Proxy and content filters are going to be straightforward to start with, but as with all of this, I need to pick something scalable. One of the biggest problems is likely to be starting with a very low budget and an IT department of one (me). We (The Open Learning Centre) get asked quite a lot about business applications rather than Ubuntu itself. Ubuntu makes a great OS for running apps like: Virtually any Web/MySQL/PHP app, CRM, Doc Management, I hadn't considered doc management as a standalone thing. I'll have to put a bit more thought into that. Asterisk (VOIP PBX) One of the other directors of the company is likely to try and do the PBX side of things, and I strongly suspect that will be done using proprietary products from one of his other companies. Even ERP systems. I'm going to be pushing the idea that CRM and ERP are selling the idea of big integrated solutions from one supplier, which you only see as an advantage if you hit problems integrating or scaling your existing packages. I'm hoping to avoid those problems in the first place by using open source software and not getting locked into anything proprietary which won't integrate well. I've always been surprised that people have thought solving integration and lock-in problems needs a single bigger product with a bigger lock-in than any of the components replaced by it. If the new company is a startup then Ubuntu would be a great choice on the desktop, but if there is already a legacy of Windows and familiarity with it, then this is a hard sell for a small firm where the cost benefits are not significant enough on their own. The issue with familiarity I'm expecting is going to be with the employees, but I've transferred enough friends and relations to Ubuntu that I don't really anticipate huge problems there. A sometimes good route is to use cross-platform apps like OpenOffice.org, Mozilla Thunderbird/Lightning and run them on Windows for while. That is an approach I've used for people who already have windows, but I'm hoping to keep windows completely off the desktop, and serve any windows apps from somewhere I can keep control of them. This makes a transition to Ubuntu slightly easier although TB packaging in Ubuntu is sub-optimal currently. In what way is TB sub-optimal? I've not hit serious problems with it myself, and I use it a lot. The only thing I can think of which some people have had issues with is Lightning integration with the various versions of TB. Hope this helps. It's all going to help at some point I suspect. -- JimP -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
- Original message - I've been reading the list for a few weeks (and posted once to get gmane set up and tested) in preparation for an upcoming job. I have a contact who is keen on using open source wherever possible in a new startup company, so I am looking for any kind of resources which might help in such a situation. I've been using open source software for years, but only in large corporations in fairly narrow applications. I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? -- Jim Price snip I'd primarily look at http://ebox-platform.org for the ebox package. It ticks all the boxes for a drop-in replacement for MS SBS and is getting better with each version (asterisk is a recent package addition, for example). I've got a couple of deployments out there and it's very good. Ironically though support for joining linux clients is limited and tbh it's a bit of a pain getting linux clients connected, but it's on the wishlist for future releases. In the Fedora/Red Hat camp Free-IPA is an awesome project that serves as an all encompassing replacement for Active Directory by linking kerberos, 389 directory server, PAM and FreeRadius. This is rapidly maturing and is massively scaleable - I've been testing this since early versions, and it does what it says on the tin! It's been said before but what the open-source community needs most is a full replacement for Exchange, with sharing of tasks, public folders and calendars. Egroupware is good but some people genuinely prefer software to web-apps and this is one area that's lacking. From a security perspective there are a wealth of open-source firewall solutions out there. I favour IPCop due to the number of very well written plugins available, but pfSense is also an awesome BSD based project. From a personal perspective, on the desktop a major tool that doesn't have a functional replacement is MS Project. I was using Planner until recently when i found out some major features were missing (but appeared to exist!). Another business tool that is missing is a replacement for AutoCAD - other than those though i don't think there are many applications that don't have a linux based counterpart. Other than that, I'd like to wish you good luck. Having a client who specifically wants an open solution is a positive thingand a great opportunity to spread the word. P-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27 July 2010 18:42, Jim Price d1vers...@hotmail.com wrote: I've been reading the list for a few weeks (and posted once to get gmane set up and tested) in preparation for an upcoming job. I have a contact who is keen on using open source wherever possible in a new startup company, so I am looking for any kind of resources which might help in such a situation. I've been using open source software for years, but only in large corporations in fairly narrow applications. I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? If you need to get up and running quickly, and resources are tight, have you thought about using Google Apps for your domain? Register a domain name, set up google apps with that domain name, and you instantly have 100 email accounts all for the cost of the domain registration. Client machines can be anything with web access and a browser. Instantly have ability to work away from the office. Later, as time and resources allow, you could either upgrade to the paid for version, or migrate away to running your own servers, as required. I would be interested in what you find in the way of ERP. There is half an idea floating around inside my head that concerning that. -- Philip Stubbs -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 21:26, Paul Morgan-Roach wrote: It's been said before but what the open-source community needs most is a full replacement for Exchange, with sharing of tasks, public folders and calendars. Egroupware is good but some people genuinely prefer software to web-apps and this is one area that's lacking. I'd suggest Zimbra, it runs on Ubuntu Server (8.04 at least, it's been a while since I looked at it so they may have 10.04 packages available now). It does come with a desktop app too which is available for Windows, Mac and Linux and it pretty much does what Exchange/Outlook does. From a security perspective there are a wealth of open-source firewall solutions out there. I favour IPCop due to the number of very well written plugins available, but pfSense is also an awesome BSD based project. I'd second IPCop, two plugins I've used on it are AdvancedProxy and UpdateAccelerator. UpdateAccelerator is particularly useful as it caches things like Windows Ubuntu update packages and checks for updated versions. From a personal perspective, on the desktop a major tool that doesn't have a functional replacement is MS Project. I was using Planner until recently when i found out some major features were missing (but appeared to exist!). Another business tool that is missing is a replacement for AutoCAD - other than those though i don't think there are many applications that don't have a linux based counterpart. I found that, well with AutoCAD anyway so a Windows machine was kept for this. Other than that, I'd like to wish you good luck. Having a client who specifically wants an open solution is a positive thingand a great opportunity to spread the word. I agree, it's good to know that someone knows about the alternatives. At a local charity project I'm helping out with the guy running it insists they're just going to run Ubuntu, luckily for them they don't have any major requirements, just usual office type stuff so Ubuntu fits the bill well. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 21:33, Grant Sewell wrote: You could go down the Google Apps route - mail, document space with the ability to share between users (and have them work on the document simultaneously, which takes a bit of getting used to). There are plenty of CRM and ERP systems that integrate with the Google Apps single sign-on way of things. Since you can enable IMAP/SMTP support relatively easily, you don't have to use the GMail interface for mail - you can use whatever client you want, so having Ubuntu on the desktop would be relatively easy. Grant. Isn't that kind of relying on the internet connection being stable all the time though? As much as I like the idea, I'd be worried about getting access to my documents with no internet connection. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
You could go down the Google Apps route - mail, document space with the ability to share between users (and have them work on the document simultaneously, which takes a bit of getting used to). There are plenty of CRM and ERP systems that integrate with the Google Apps single sign-on way of things. Since you can enable IMAP/SMTP support relatively easily, you don't have to use the GMail interface for mail - you can use whatever client you want, so having Ubuntu on the desktop would be relatively easy. Grant. Isn't that kind of relying on the internet connection being stable all the time though? As much as I like the idea, I'd be worried about getting access to my documents with no internet connection. Rob ISTR it can use Google Gears so you can work offline too. Update: Checked and found that Google has pulled this, albeit temporarily http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=176376 Looks like they intend to bring offline access back again though. Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 21:33, Grant Sewell wrote: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:14:05 +0100 Jim Price wrote: It's all going to help at some point I suspect. You could go down the Google Apps route - mail, document space with the ability to share between users (and have them work on the document simultaneously, which takes a bit of getting used to). There are plenty of CRM and ERP systems that integrate with the Google Apps single sign-on way of things. Since you can enable IMAP/SMTP support relatively easily, you don't have to use the GMail interface for mail - you can use whatever client you want, so having Ubuntu on the desktop would be relatively easy. There's a lot to like about Google Apps, but it might not match up with my perceived need to avoid lock-in wherever possible. I think their pricing is a little like the timeshare model, where they are pitching it against how you could do it with other proprietary models rather than how much it costs them to do it plus a reasonable profit. I will continue to keep my eye on it though, and use gmail for personal use of course. -- JimP -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 21:26, Paul Morgan-Roach wrote: I'd primarily look at http://ebox-platform.org for the ebox package. It ticks all the boxes for a drop-in replacement for MS SBS and is getting better with each version (asterisk is a recent package addition, for example). I've got a couple of deployments out there and it's very good. Ironically though support for joining linux clients is limited and tbh it's a bit of a pain getting linux clients connected, but it's on the wishlist for future releases. ebox is on my list next to clearos for those sort of duties. Version 2 looks very promising. In the Fedora/Red Hat camp Free-IPA is an awesome project that serves as an all encompassing replacement for Active Directory by linking kerberos, 389 directory server, PAM and FreeRadius. This is rapidly maturing and is massively scaleable - I've been testing this since early versions, and it does what it says on the tin! Now that does look interesting. I shall be giving it a try. It's been said before but what the open-source community needs most is a full replacement for Exchange, with sharing of tasks, public folders and calendars. Egroupware is good but some people genuinely prefer software to web-apps and this is one area that's lacking. Email is the thing which I am scratching my head over most. Unfortunately it is one of the things which has to be there from day one, and work extremely reliably as the company grows. From a security perspective there are a wealth of open-source firewallolutions out there. I favour IPCop due to the number of very well written plugins available, but pfSense is also an awesome BSD based project. I stayed on the Smoothwall side of the fence when IPCop was originally announced as a fork, and haven't looked at it for a long time. I haven't used Smoothwall for some time either. As this is an Ubuntu list, and to keep the overall number of different distributions to a minimum, it would be nice to look at something Ubuntu based though. From a personal perspective, on the desktop a major tool that doesn't have a functional replacement is MS Project. I was using Planner until recently when i found out some major features were missing (but appeared to exist!). As a former project mangler myself, I rarely ran the sort of projects which got much benefit from Project type applications. What used to happen was a load of charts would be produced early on in the project and distributed, then printed out by assorted departments, stuck on the wall and then either misunderstood, ignored completely, or just not updated and used to start arguments about why something wasn't going to happen when it said it was on version 1.0 of the plan. Another business tool that is missing is a replacement for AutoCAD - other than those though i don't think there are many applications that don't have a linux based counterpart. It is a fair point. I'm not sure there is going to be a need for high end CAD in this business though. Other than that, I'd like to wish you good luck. Thank you. Having a client who specifically wants an open solution is a positive thingand a great opportunity to spread the word. That's what I'm hoping. -- JimP -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 21:40, Philip Stubbs wrote: On 27 July 2010 18:42, Jim Priced1vers...@hotmail.com wrote: I've been reading the list for a few weeks (and posted once to get gmane set up and tested) in preparation for an upcoming job. I have a contact who is keen on using open source wherever possible in a new startup company, so I am looking for any kind of resources which might help in such a situation. I've been using open source software for years, but only in large corporations in fairly narrow applications. I couldn't make the Ubuntu in Business meeting a couple of weeks ago, but is there a writeup of what happened there? Are there any other good starting points to get an overview of what Ubuntu can offer the small (but hopefully fast growing) business? If you need to get up and running quickly, and resources are tight, have you thought about using Google Apps for your domain? Register a domain name, set up google apps with that domain name, and you instantly have 100 email accounts all for the cost of the domain registration. Client machines can be anything with web access and a browser. Instantly have ability to work away from the office. Later, as time and resources allow, you could either upgrade to the paid for version, or migrate away to running your own servers, as required. That does make it sound very tempting. The situation I don't want to get into though is to hit the limit of the free access and find I'm faced with a huge project if I want to migrate to something else. Also, it doesn't quite tick the can we do this entirely with open source software box. I would be interested in what you find in the way of ERP. There is half an idea floating around inside my head that concerning that. I think I have a fair amount of time for that, as it isn't something which needs to be there until the company gets a lot bigger. Having said that, I need to make sure I don't get into any holes which are difficult to get out of later on. -- JimP -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu for small business
On 27/07/10 23:26, Grant Sewell wrote: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:18:52 +0100 Jim Price wrote: There's a lot to like about Google Apps, but it might not match up with my perceived need to avoid lock-in wherever possible. I think their pricing is a little like the timeshare model, where they are pitching it against how you could do it with other proprietary models rather than how much it costs them to do it plus a reasonable profit. I will continue to keep my eye on it though, and use gmail for personal use of course. That's why I like the Standard edition. Free for up-to 50 user accounts. Some things don't get rolled-out to Standard domains, but frequently these are things that aren't going to make a *huge* impact... and they seem to get rolled-out to the Standard domains after a while anyway. My big question about it is what is it like to migrate away from? I've not talked to anyone who has, which in one way is a point in its favour that such people are rare, but I still have some reservations about getting locked into it. At the end of the day, I am attracted by the idea of using the email service provided by an ISP, and choosing ISP based on the reputation of their email service as well as their internet connection. It neatly avoids the issues of whether it is the connectivity or the email servers which are at fault if they are provided by two suppliers. -- JimP -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
