[ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? -- Regards, Bill B. [SuperEngineer] -- -Registered Linux User 523667- -Registered Ubuntu User 32366- -Free as in Freedom-- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 9 April 2012 09:24, Bill Baker boo...@gmail.com wrote: This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? -- There is a point about the Ubuntu OS privacy policy being available somewhere as it doesn't seem to be immediately obvious, but the Privacy Control Panel is exactly the opposite of what the author seems to think it is, being what is currently known as Activity Log Manager actually finding a place in the standard installation. Activity Log Manager controls what Zeitgeist, the subsystem that monitors your activity and converts it into suggested activities and files on the Dash, shows you. The writer either didn't understand that or chose not to. s/ -- Twitter: @sfgreenwood Go on Bobby, both barrels -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 09/04/12 09:24, Bill Baker wrote: This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? That whole article appears to be a journalist saying I have no idea what this stuff is. This is a bit sad as the journalist in question could have actually done some finding out, and then explained to the readership what it was rather than publishing a content free article. Ubuntu has something in it called zeitgeist. This tracks lots of stuff you do with the objective of making the computer better able to anticipate what you are going to do next and be more helpful about it. Quite a lot of applications in the file menu show recently used files. This is tracking you, but most rational people don't see it that way. The privacy control now allows you to control this kind of thing - and opt out. You should not be worried that there are privacy controls available. You should be worried about operating systems and devices that *don't* have privacy controls built in. In terms of stuff submitted to Canonical, this is crash traces that get automatically added to bugs (Windows has a submit to Microsoft button when things crash - but in that case it vanishes inside Redmond never to be seen again rather than on a public bug report you can view yourself) Alan -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On Mon, 2012-04-09 at 10:29 +0100, Alan Bell wrote: On 09/04/12 09:24, Bill Baker wrote: This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? That whole article appears to be a journalist saying I have no idea what this stuff is. This is a bit sad as the journalist in question could have actually done some finding out, and then explained to the readership what it was rather than publishing a content free article. Ubuntu has something in it called zeitgeist. This tracks lots of stuff you do with the objective of making the computer better able to anticipate what you are going to do next and be more helpful about it. Quite a lot of applications in the file menu show recently used files. This is tracking you, but most rational people don't see it that way. The privacy control now allows you to control this kind of thing - and opt out. You should not be worried that there are privacy controls available. You should be worried about operating systems and devices that *don't* have privacy controls built in. In terms of stuff submitted to Canonical, this is crash traces that get automatically added to bugs (Windows has a submit to Microsoft button when things crash - but in that case it vanishes inside Redmond never to be seen again rather than on a public bug report you can view yourself) Alan -- THIS [the above from Alan] is *exactly* the reply the informationally disadvantaged article /or author I had in mind. -- Regards, Bill B. [SuperEngineer] -- -Registered Linux User 523667- -Registered Ubuntu User 32366- -Free as in Freedom-- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 10:29:02 +0100 Alan Bell alanb...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 09/04/12 09:24, Bill Baker wrote: This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? That whole article appears to be a journalist saying I have no idea what this stuff is. This is a bit sad as the journalist in question could have actually done some finding out, and then explained to the readership what it was rather than publishing a content free article. The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. -- Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 09/04/12 10:20, Simon Greenwood wrote: On 9 April 2012 09:24, Bill Baker boo...@gmail.com mailto:boo...@gmail.com wrote: This has appeared on Linux Today site: Should you be worried about Ubuntu Desktop's privacy settings? LinuxBSDos: I hope that I am wrong, but your new Ubuntu system could be used to spy on you. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB Should someone [in a position to do be authoritative on the reply] actually respond or reply to the article I wonder? -- There is a point about the Ubuntu OS privacy policy being available somewhere as it doesn't seem to be immediately obvious, but the Privacy Control Panel is exactly the opposite of what the author seems to think it is, being what is currently known as Activity Log Manager actually finding a place in the standard installation. Activity Log Manager controls what Zeitgeist, the subsystem that monitors your activity and converts it into suggested activities and files on the Dash, shows you. The writer either didn't understand that or chose not to. s/ -- Twitter: @sfgreenwood Go on Bobby, both barrels I have no issue with the OS recording what gets used / downloaded most often, and what gets downloaded, if it helps canonical make better choices as to waht to include on cd's for example and gives feedback to developers as to what is popular I know windows tells users what is installed and what gets used and how often it helps when removing packages etc. Paul -- -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.ubuntu.com skype : psutton111 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 09/04/12 15:16, Colin Law wrote: On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. That sounds like the sort of details that should go in the existing bug report to help clarify it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/activity-log-manager/+bug/967056 Colin, do you want to do that so that you can express it in your own words? Otherwise I'm happy to add more details to the comments so that the developers understand the nature of the problem. I should probably install activity-log-manager so that I can see for myself what the whole thing is about :-) Cheers, Bruno -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 9 April 2012 16:18, Bruno Girin brunogi...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/12 15:16, Colin Law wrote: On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. That sounds like the sort of details that should go in the existing bug report to help clarify it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/activity-log-manager/+bug/967056 Colin, do you want to do that so that you can express it in your own words? Otherwise I'm happy to add more details to the comments so that the developers understand the nature of the problem. I should probably install activity-log-manager so that I can see for myself what the whole thing is about :-) I have added my comments, but anyone with any input should do the same I think. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 09/04/12 16:46, Colin Law wrote: On 9 April 2012 16:18, Bruno Girin brunogi...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/12 15:16, Colin Law wrote: On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. That sounds like the sort of details that should go in the existing bug report to help clarify it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/activity-log-manager/+bug/967056 Colin, do you want to do that so that you can express it in your own words? Otherwise I'm happy to add more details to the comments so that the developers understand the nature of the problem. I should probably install activity-log-manager so that I can see for myself what the whole thing is about :-) I have added my comments, but anyone with any input should do the same I think. I've added my own comment to the bug report, mostly in line with what you say. Bruno -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 15:16:31 +0100 Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. Thanks Colin, that's what I was trying to say. I've been at my parents today and showed it to them to see what they thought. They're both Ubuntu users but rarely fiddle with settings. To say they were baffled would be an understatement. They really weren't sure what was being recorded and benefits it had. The relationship of the two buttons in the Recent Items tab also baffled them. Did the RH button save things for an hour, day, week, etc. or was that what the LH Delete History button deletes. I'll add this to the bug and thanks again to Colin for his excellent explanation of the problems on the bug thread. -- Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On 9 April 2012 19:20, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 15:16:31 +0100 Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9 April 2012 14:37, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 09/04/12 11:20, Steve wrote: The problem is not with the journalist but, Ubuntu. The explanations as to what is going on with these settings can best be described as vague. Until Alan's explanation I wasn't sure what they're for. I've submitted a bug #977106 to LP if people would like to add to it. well apart from tossing in the word zeitgeist (which nobody really understands and would be called jargon or gobbledygook geek stuff by most people) I don't really see what my explanation added over the default text that is on the screenshots and there to be read. What was the bit I said that was helpful compared to what is there already? I think that your comments made it clear /where/ the information is being stored (on the PC not off on the internet somewhere) and /why/ (for the users convenience not for snooping purposes). You may think that these things are obvious but that is not necessarily correct. Thanks Colin, that's what I was trying to say. I've been at my parents today and showed it to them to see what they thought. They're both Ubuntu users but rarely fiddle with settings. To say they were baffled would be an understatement. They really weren't sure what was being recorded and benefits it had. The relationship of the two buttons in the Recent Items tab also baffled them. Did the RH button save things for an hour, day, week, etc. or was that what the LH Delete History button deletes. I'll add this to the bug and thanks again to Colin for his excellent explanation of the problems on the bug thread. You are right about the buttons being confusing. The clue to the right hand button is in the heading Forget Activities, it clears the data for the period specified in the button (the last hour or whatever). The heading is too far from the button however. It is the age old problem of someone who knows how to do something writing the instructions, it is not easy to put yourself into the mind of someone who is coming at it for the first time. (To assemble: Insert sprogget B into cordwangle C as shown in diagram XVII) Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Worrying article
On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 20:48:15 +0100 Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: I've been at my parents today and showed it to them to see what they thought. They're both Ubuntu users but rarely fiddle with settings. To say they were baffled would be an understatement. They really weren't sure what was being recorded and benefits it had. The relationship of the two buttons in the Recent Items tab also baffled them. Did the RH button save things for an hour, day, week, etc. or was that what the LH Delete History button deletes. I'll add this to the bug and thanks again to Colin for his excellent explanation of the problems on the bug thread. You are right about the buttons being confusing. The clue to the right hand button is in the heading Forget Activities, it clears the data for the period specified in the button (the last hour or whatever). The heading is too far from the button however. It is the age old problem of someone who knows how to do something writing the instructions, it is not easy to put yourself into the mind of someone who is coming at it for the first time. (To assemble: Insert sprogget B into cordwangle C as shown in diagram XVII) I know what it's like trying to write instructions for people. Trying to get 'just enough' information so people can follow them and 'chapter-and-verse' which causes people to skip things as they don't want to read it all is very hard. Privacy is a very problematic area because a lot of people have a hard time understanding it. -- Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
