Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 23:19, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 18:11, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: I did not say that it was necessarily a generally accepted definition, merely that by that definition GIMP is recursive and therefore my original statement that 'it depends on the definition' is true. Having said that I believe I have seen that definition used somewhere on the web so it must be ok. I will just have a quick google ... Ah yes, have a look at http://old.nabble.com/11.04-Natty-Narwhal-td29463807i20.html#a29470562 Except that Wikipedia says no such thing, so you are deluding yourself completely... I never said it did, that was someone else, he/she was deluding him/her self. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym So, please, before we all lose the will to live instead of INVENTING definitions to back up your assertion, try sending some LINKS to ANY definition that suggests GIMP is recursive, for it is not and will never be so... unless you prove otherwise. Note that I never asserted that GIMP is a recursive algorithm, and agree with you that anyone who believes that is incorrect. I merely pointed out that by an alternative definition of recursive acronym it could be considered so and provided a vaguely believable definition to that end. An entirely pointless thing to do I know, merely intended as a way to keep the brain cells active. The whole point of a recursive acronym is after all that it is a light hearted play on words and letters. I was merely pressing on along that path. I don't think that the concept of Recursive Acronyms was ever supposed to be taken seriously. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
The name is only supposed to be used by developers during the development cycle. Once it releases it becomes 10.04, 10.10 etc. Assuming what you say is correct then why are the names still used in the listed Software Sources? Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 09:02, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: The name is only supposed to be used by developers during the development cycle. Once it releases it becomes 10.04, 10.10 etc. Assuming what you say is correct then why are the names still used in the listed Software Sources? That's due to the way the software is organised on the repositories. On the front screen it mentions the sections of the repository main, universe, restricted and multiverse, but it's only on the Updates tab where it mentions (in brackets) the code name, and only because that's the technical name of that part of the repository. So for example on mine it says Important security updates (lucid-security) which is a non-technical way of referring to http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid-security/;. We inherit this setup from Debian. However they also link the version numbers in their archive. So for example debian 4.0 has the codename 'etch' and thus their archive URLs are like this http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/ however they also have links which reference the version number which point to the same place such as http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian-4.0/ . Perhaps we should do the same thing and then remove the codenames from software sources? Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:02:19 +0100 Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: The name is only supposed to be used by developers during the development cycle. Once it releases it becomes 10.04, 10.10 etc. Assuming what you say is correct then why are the names still used in the listed Software Sources? Damn, beat me to it :) This argument, about the names, has raged before and didn’t really get any where. Quite what a 'professional' code name is I don’t know. I’ve worked for companies that used types of potato as code names, used anagrams of the team members names. One thing for sure though, the Ubuntu code names get noticed and spread around the net giving us valuable publicity. It doesn’t seem to put the French government off, as the happily deploying Ubuntu on quite a large scale. As for names like GIMP, does Ifanview or Excel give any hint as to what the progam does. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
Personally I prefer the codenames to the version numbers, which aren't really version numbers at all but rather the month/year the release occurred. There is no evidence, as far as I can see, that 9.04 and 9.10 are any more similar than 9.10 and 10.04, therefore the accepted rules regarding release numbers (ie. 1.4 1.41 1.42 1.5 1.51 1.52 denotes major and minor releases) don't apply so 10.04 is NOT a release number imho and has no more significance in that regard than Lucid or Karmic... So why have the numeric codenames at all? Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 09:52, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: As for names like GIMP, does Ifanview or Excel give any hint as to what the progam does. Don't diss GIMP... we all know it's the GNU Image Manipulation Program... I think that actually gives a VERY large hint as to what the program does... Could probably do with a recursive acronym to give it real credibility, but in the absence of that I'll settle for GIMP ;-) Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 21:07 +0100, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Erm, maverick hasn't been released yet, the window buttons were changed in lucid, new ground? plenty. have you not been paying attention to all the new indicator work? global menus? unity? shotwell? a flutter with chromium, then chromium promoted to main? new sound menu? multi-touch? please, facts straight -- Gordon Allott Canonical Ltd. 27 Floor, Millbank Tower London SW1P 4QP www.canonical.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 09:53, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: There is no evidence, as far as I can see, that 9.04 and 9.10 are any more similar than 9.10 and 10.04, therefore the accepted rules regarding release numbers (ie. 1.4 1.41 1.42 1.5 1.51 1.52 denotes major and minor releases) don't apply so 10.04 is NOT a release number imho and has no more significance in that regard than Lucid or Karmic... Release numbers are arbitrary at the behest of the developer who chooses them. We chose YY.DD and it works really well. You can te So why have the numeric codenames at all? Because names are obscure. Imagine someone asks for support and wants to know if their release is still supported. As a simple test without looking it up and without thinking, when was Edgy Eft released? I personally don't know without going back in my head over all the releases or working forward from one I happen to know, and I've run every release since 4.10! Compare that to 6.06 LTS I know just from that the release date (June 2006) and as it's an LTS release it was supported until 2009 (3 years) on the desktop and 2011 (5 years) on the server. You can't get that information from Dapper Drake without looking it up. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 10:08, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: Compare that to 6.06 LTS I know just from that the release date (June 2006) and as it's an LTS release it was supported until 2009 (3 years) on the desktop and 2011 (5 years) on the server. You can't get that information from Dapper Drake without looking it up. I have to agree with you on that one: it is at least self-explanatory, but I think one of the issues with Ubuntu is actually telling what is a release and what is a patch... some of the version upgrades just feel like installing XP SP2 whereas others are like moving from XP to Vista, or Vista to '7'... and the version numbers tell us nothing about that at all. Let me put it a slightly different way... if you were au fait with XP but not with Windows 98 and you were asked for support with a 98 installation you may try to do something useful, but you'd know that it wasn't an OS I really know... if somebody says to me I have Ubuntu I'll try to help them with their issues, but I have to admit that I know that fixes that might work in (say) Lucid or Karmic may well be completely irrelevant to Dapper Drake... and we can presumably assume that if they are still running Warty they're pretty much on their own?? I'd like more of an indication on version numbers of what branch of Ubuntu we're talking about... perhaps this is impossible with an OS, perhaps it is not... but whilst I recognise that the 9.04 tells me something about how long official support lasts it doesn't actually tell me anything about whether it is more similar to the LTS release before it or the one after and whether any advice I could give would be relevant or not... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 19:44, Laura Czajkowski la...@lczajkowski.com wrote: Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura Hello Laura, Thanks for the update on the name, an interesting choice. I think it does a good job of getting attention, as can be seen in this very long email thread. Thank you. -- John Stevenson Lean Agile Consultant / Coach jr0cket.com | leanagilemachine.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
all the releases are releases, with new features and whole new versions of stuff they contain. These get maintained, security patches and other fixes get made to the releases for the support period of that release, there is no service pack or patch tuesday type process, fixes get released when ready. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases The LTS releases tend to aim for long term supportability, with ends up being a bit contradictory, sometimes using not the cutting edge version of certain components because they might have to be changed a lot, sometimes deliberately going for something that is only just ready so not to have to support an obsolete architecture of something for a long time. Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 09:55, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 09:52, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: As for names like GIMP, does Ifanview or Excel give any hint as to what the progam does. Don't diss GIMP... we all know it's the GNU Image Manipulation Program... I think that actually gives a VERY large hint as to what the program does... I don't think that argument holds together. If you know what GIMP stands for then you probably already know what it does. If you don't know what it stands for then you don't know what GIMP does. Could probably do with a recursive acronym to give it real credibility, but in the absence of that I'll settle for GIMP ;-) The G is already recursive. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 11:17, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: The G is already recursive. Only in that it's GNU... GIMP is not recursive in itself... Had it stood for GIMP Image Manipulation Program then that'd be recursive... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 10:08, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: On 18 August 2010 09:53, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: There is no evidence, as far as I can see, that 9.04 and 9.10 are any more similar than 9.10 and 10.04, therefore the accepted rules regarding release numbers (ie. 1.4 1.41 1.42 1.5 1.51 1.52 denotes major and minor releases) don't apply so 10.04 is NOT a release number imho and has no more significance in that regard than Lucid or Karmic... Release numbers are arbitrary at the behest of the developer who chooses them. We chose YY.DD and it works really well. You can te And I always thought that it was YY.MM :-) -- Philip Stubbs -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 11:23, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 11:17, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: The G is already recursive. Only in that it's GNU... GIMP is not recursive in itself... It depends on the definition of recursive I suppose. If you fully expand it: GIMP - GNU Image Manipulation Program - GNU's Not Unix Image Manipulation Program - GNU's Not Unix Not Unix Image Manipulation Program - GNU's Not Unix Not Unix Not Unix Image Manipulation Program - ... I seem to be running out of stack. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 11:35, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 11:33, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: It depends on the definition of recursive I suppose. If you fully expand it: GIMP - No, it doesn't... recursive acronyms don't involve expanding the components therein that might be acronyms in themselves... recursive acronyms have to recurse in themself... GIMP doesn't, so it isn't. I think you have made my point, it _does_ depend on the definition. By that definition it is not recursive, by another it might be. But actually my original point was, to quote myself, the G is already recursive, I only later tried to extend that to the whole acronym. The G stands for GNU which is itself recursive. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
No, GIMP cannot be recursive by any definition... GNU is recursive because the 'G' stands for GNU. For GIMP to be recursive the 'G' would have to stand for GIMP which it does not... therefore it is not recursive. The fact that the 'G' stands for something that is, itself, a recursive acronym is irrelevant. There is nothing to stop recursive acronyms including recursive acronyms (to however many levels required, in fact) but they still have to fulfil the criteria themselves, they can't inherit through inclusion. GIMP Image Manipulation Program would be recursive, GNU Image Manipulation Program clearly isn't... Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 12:44, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: No, GIMP cannot be recursive by any definition... GIMP is recursive by the definition 'An Acronym is defined as recursive if it refers to itself in the expression for which it stands, or if any of the initials stands for a recursive acronym.' (Excellent, a recursive definition of a recursive acronym.) Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 13:09, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: GIMP is recursive by the definition 'An Acronym is defined as recursive if it refers to itself in the expression for which it stands, or if any of the initials stands for a recursive acronym.' (Excellent, a recursive definition of a recursive acronym.) And that definition exists where? Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 13:09, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: GIMP is recursive by the definition 'An Acronym is defined as recursive if it refers to itself in the expression for which it stands, or if any of the initials stands for a recursive acronym.' (Excellent, a recursive definition of a recursive acronym.) And that definition exists where? Wikipedia. -- Steve When one person suffers from a delusion it is insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 09:57, Gordon Allott gord.all...@canonical.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 21:07 +0100, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Erm, maverick hasn't been released yet, the window buttons were changed in lucid, new ground? plenty. have you not been paying attention to all the new indicator work? global menus? unity? shotwell? a flutter with chromium, then chromium promoted to main? new sound menu? multi-touch? please, facts straight Missed the giant /s tag too... I've got to start putting that in. However, we have reached feature freeze, so (in theory) there's nothing new coming over the system I'm running now. I'll reiterate, too, that I love Ubuntu and have been running it since Breezy and as my main OS since Feisty; look on this as a critical friend. the window buttons were changed in lucid Crikey. the new indicator work? The feature was introduced in Lucid, hence ground was broken then. This is refinement - a good thing - but not ground breaking. global menus? Started in 2006 (IIRC) by someone who was at the time shouted down by some people for trying to mimic Mac OS. Targeted at netbooks, but I'll have another look as it sounds interesting. Doesn't seem to do a lot for me at the moment though (just get Desktop, Desktop menus will go here). I'm not sure why application-based mode hasn't been extended, unless by currently unimplemented they mean completely absent in every way. unity? Netbook stuff, so I haven't looked at it. :) shotwell? a flutter with chromium, then chromium promoted to main? Those are two applications I had installed before inclusion. Fine, though, most people wouldn't go looking for them - though how many of those will install Chromium if it's not already there? Won't they just use Firefox as its installed by default? (This is like saying, we install pitivi by default! It's ground-breaking!) new sound menu? Extension of indicator, but yes it is pretty. multi-touch Now we're talking. This is the USP. Limited value on most computers but it's a heck of a nice feature to have included. I can't wait for my touchpad to actually work correctly! Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:07, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 August 2010 19:44, Laura Czajkowski la...@lczajkowski.com wrote: Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura -- Easy steps to make your product fail: 1) Give it a name only the developers would understand in its proper context, e.g. GIMP. 2) ??? 3) Profit! *cough* Sorry. 2) Promote the product via this name (or codename). 3) Wonder why the general public (general ignorant audience) don't jump on board when they think the name sounds unprofessional or just plain stupid (e.g. GIMP). 4) Resist all urges by your community to change the name as there's nothing wrong with it. If you read this far, thank you. The point I think I'm trying to make is that Canonical seems to be wandering further and further off into obscure yet geeky-cool naming schemes. Let's look at them shall we? Warty Warthog. Fine. It was warty. Makes sense, warthog. Warts. Fine. Hoary Hedgehog. Familiar animal, hairy so mature. OK I guess. Breezy Badger. Easy breezy. Nice and simple. Badger is a dependable creature. Good name. Dapper Drake. Dapper, polished. Good. LTS. Drake? It's a male duck. Umm. They like to gang rape female ducks? Or do you mean a flying dragon? Edgy Eft. Edgy, damned right it was. WTF is an Eft? A small newt. I thought everyone knew that. By the way, an eft became an ewt during one of English's many upheavals, then an ewt became a a newt, in a reversal of the way that a nadder became an adder and a napron became an apron. Feisty Fawn. Bit musty and mouldy? Grovelling about on the floor? Oh, wait, you mean eager? And a deer? An eager deer? What, you don't know what feisty means? Seriously? Gutsy Gibbon. Gutsy, fine. Strong. Gibbon, fine, intelligent, mobile, sociable etc. Hardy Heron. Hardy, strong, LTS. Good name for an LTS. Heron, patient. Good name. Intrepid Ibex. Breaking new ground, Ibex is a call back to Ubuntu origin. Good name. Jaunty Jackalope. OK, here we go. A fictional creature that's a bit sure of itself. Karmic Koala. Karmic as in it has reached nirvana? I'm not sure Karmic was /that/ good. Koalas eat eucalyptus; was that a package introduced? Elastic computing thing? Lucid Lynx. Clear-minded wildcat. Umm. Not exactly a dependable creature for an LTS, then. Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Natty Narwhal. Oh come on. From WordNet (r) 2.0 : dapper adj : marked by smartness in dress and manners; a dapper young man; a jaunty red hat [syn: dashing, jaunty, natty, raffish, rakish, smart, spiffy, snappy, spruce] Dapper, Jaunty, Natty? Well, at least that's the codenames for R and S sorted (I'm going to bet now on Raffish and Spiffy). From WordNet (r) 2.0 : narwhal n : small arctic whale the male having a long spiral ivory tusk [syn: narwal, narwhale, Monodon monoceros] Monodon. Monoceros. Those are good names. Sound powerful, hints of rhinoceros (and Ubuntu again). Oh, wait, we've already had M in 10.10. Raffish Rhinoceros for 13.04, anyone? Nah, rhinoceros is too well known. It would have to be something like Raffish Roach (that's right, it's a fish, but people will think it's a cockroach. Perfect!). So you are not sure what a narwhal is, but you think monoceros is acceptable? Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. You're just having a bit of a rant, aren't you? -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 16:15, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: Missed the giant /s tag too... I've got to start putting that in. Or explain the real meaning of the mail and don't rely on obscure tags that readers won't notice, or understand. I have no clue what /s means. Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 16:23, Grant Sewell dcg...@thymox.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:16:57 +0100 Liam Proven wrote: Edgy Eft. Edgy, damned right it was. WTF is an Eft? A small newt. I thought everyone knew that. By the way, an eft became an ewt during one of English's many upheavals, then an ewt became a a newt, in a reversal of the way that a nadder became an adder and a napron became an apron. My favourite is a norange - an orange. :) Oooh yes. From /naranja/ - orange in Spanish. I was trying to remember that, but got it muddled up with al Abriqoc - an Arabic word that mutated into apricot. -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 16:16, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: A small newt. I thought everyone knew that. Nope. Not everyone knows obscure words. Just in the same way I don't *expect* you to know what pedagogy is. By the way, an eft became an ewt during one of English's many upheavals, then an ewt became a a newt, in a reversal of the way that a nadder became an adder and a napron became an apron. Feisty Fawn. Bit musty and mouldy? Grovelling about on the floor? Oh, wait, you mean eager? And a deer? An eager deer? What, you don't know what feisty means? Seriously? Correct. The entire post was completely serious. However: From WordNet (r) 2.0 : feisty adj 1: showing courage; the champion is faced with a feisty challenger [syn: plucky, spunky] 2: irritable and looking for trouble; too touchy to make judicious decisions [syn: touchy] [also: feistiest, feistier] So it could well have been irritable rather than courageous. I'm surprised you haven't heard of something musty being described as feisty. I thought everyone knew that. What's that? Different people know different things? That's crazy talk. People are a homogeneous mass. Monodon. Monoceros. Those are good names. Sound powerful, hints of rhinoceros (and Ubuntu again). Oh, wait, we've already had M in 10.10. Raffish Rhinoceros for 13.04, anyone? Nah, rhinoceros is too well known. It would have to be something like Raffish Roach (that's right, it's a fish, but people will think it's a cockroach. Perfect!). So you are not sure what a narwhal is, but you think monoceros is acceptable? Correct. I did not know that narwhals are a whale-like creature that live in the North Atlantic having a single large tusk, being hunted almost to extinction by Scandinavian countries, being credited with starting many sea monster stories (probably even the whole unicorn thing), despite having plenty of reference in popular culture. Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. You're just having a bit of a rant, aren't you? YES! OH GOD YES! Did the bit where I said enough ranting give you a clue? You're just having a bit of pedantic facetiousness, aren't you? Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 16:22, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: On 18 August 2010 16:15, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: Missed the giant /s tag too... I've got to start putting that in. Or explain the real meaning of the mail and don't rely on obscure tags that readers won't notice, or understand. I have no clue what /s means. Al. OK, I apologise. I thought I'd try to post to the discussion list. Little did I realise that there was a strict code of conduct. I'll unsubscribe and go on my way. I shan't bother you all again. Thanks. Jonathon PS /s is meant to denote sarcasm within the text. It is often used on US-centric discussion boards so as to highlight the idea that the text is not to be taken seriously. The use of the word sarcasm is of course incorrect, as most are actually attempting irony. This fact escapes most US writers, but as they make up the majority of English-speaking posters the trend has stuck. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18/08/10 16:46, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: OK, I apologise. I thought I'd try to post to the discussion list. Little did I realise that there was a strict code of conduct. There is, it is here http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct you were totally within it, its cool. I'll unsubscribe and go on my way. I shan't bother you all again. no, don't do that Thanks. Jonathon PS /s is meant to denote sarcasm within the text. It is often used on US-centric discussion boards so as to highlight the idea that the text is not to be taken seriously. The use of the word sarcasm is of course incorrect, as most are actually attempting irony. This fact escapes most US writers, but as they make up the majority of English-speaking posters the trend has stuck. never come across /s myself before. I guessed it might mean sarcasm from the context, I would normally use sarcasm/sarcasm when talking to Americans or people not used to humour. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
Also the dangers of trying to reply via a mobile phone that does not do proper quoting: On 18 August 2010 16:55, Matthew Bassett hewb...@gmail.com wrote: The dangers of using a US based dictionary / thesaurus on a UK based list: From WordNet (r) 2.0 : feisty adj 1: showing courage; the champion is faced with a feisty challenger [syn: plucky, spunky] Imbued with involuntary night time emissions?eference in popular culture. Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. You're just having a bit of a rant, aren't you? YES! OH GOD YES! Did the bit where I said enough ranting give you a clue? Doh! And apologies for any confusion about attribution. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 16:46, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 August 2010 16:16, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: A small newt. I thought everyone knew that. Nope. Not everyone knows obscure words. Just in the same way I don't *expect* you to know what pedagogy is. I do, thanks. Indeed I suspect, sarcasm or irony aside, that I actually have a considerably better vocabulary than you do, since you make at least one howler in this very message. What, you don't know what feisty means? Seriously? Correct. The entire post was completely serious. However: From WordNet (r) 2.0 : feisty adj 1: showing courage; the champion is faced with a feisty challenger [syn: plucky, spunky] 2: irritable and looking for trouble; too touchy to make judicious decisions [syn: touchy] [also: feistiest, feistier] So it could well have been irritable rather than courageous. I'm surprised you haven't heard of something musty being described as feisty. I thought everyone knew that. I think that perhaps you are thinking of the word fusty here, which does indeed mean old, musty and smelling of damp. Also see fustian, referring to heavy tweedy fabric and thus by association carrying connotations of pompous old academicals. Feisty, however, never carries this connotation, to the best of my knowledge. Correct. I did not know that narwhals are a whale-like creature that live in the North Atlantic having a single large tusk, being hunted almost to extinction by Scandinavian countries, being credited with starting many sea monster stories (probably even the whole unicorn thing), despite having plenty of reference in popular culture. So you've never played the alphabet game? It goes around a ring of players and each must name another example of the chosen category, e.g. animals: Player 1 - ant Player 2 - baboon Player 3 - cat ... And so on. Most people get stuck on N; few common animals in English begin with N, which is why Ubuntu had a bit of a problem. Nanny-goat, narwhal and numbat and that's about it. YES! OH GOD YES! Did the bit where I said enough ranting give you a clue? You're just having a bit of pedantic facetiousness, aren't you? Why, yes, I am. It's a hobby of mine. Gives me great entertainment. So is philology, though, which is why I chose to pull you up. :¬) -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 13:58, Sean Miller s...@seanmiller.net wrote: On 18 August 2010 13:09, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: GIMP is recursive by the definition 'An Acronym is defined as recursive if it refers to itself in the expression for which it stands, or if any of the initials stands for a recursive acronym.' (Excellent, a recursive definition of a recursive acronym.) And that definition exists where? I did not say that it was necessarily a generally accepted definition, merely that by that definition GIMP is recursive and therefore my original statement that 'it depends on the definition' is true. Having said that I believe I have seen that definition used somewhere on the web so it must be ok. I will just have a quick google ... Ah yes, have a look at http://old.nabble.com/11.04-Natty-Narwhal-td29463807i20.html#a29470562 :) Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
With a name like that, how long before the media call it the NUTTY Narwhal? Or the NUTTY KNOW-ALL? Worse name ever for an Ubuntu release. Calling any product Natty is a recipe for disaster. They could have chosen something more positive, such as Nimble Nightingale. David King Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: On 17 August 2010 19:44, Laura Czajkowski la...@lczajkowski.com wrote: Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura -- Easy steps to make your product fail: 1) Give it a name only the developers would understand in its proper context, e.g. GIMP. 2) ??? 3) Profit! *cough* Sorry. 2) Promote the product via this name (or codename). 3) Wonder why the general public (general ignorant audience) don't jump on board when they think the name sounds unprofessional or just plain stupid (e.g. GIMP). 4) Resist all urges by your community to change the name as there's nothing wrong with it. If you read this far, thank you. The point I think I'm trying to make is that Canonical seems to be wandering further and further off into obscure yet geeky-cool naming schemes. Let's look at them shall we? Warty Warthog. Fine. It was warty. Makes sense, warthog. Warts. Fine. Hoary Hedgehog. Familiar animal, hairy so mature. OK I guess. Breezy Badger. Easy breezy. Nice and simple. Badger is a dependable creature. Good name. Dapper Drake. Dapper, polished. Good. LTS. Drake? It's a male duck. Umm. They like to gang rape female ducks? Or do you mean a flying dragon? Edgy Eft. Edgy, damned right it was. WTF is an Eft? Feisty Fawn. Bit musty and mouldy? Grovelling about on the floor? Oh, wait, you mean eager? And a deer? An eager deer? Gutsy Gibbon. Gutsy, fine. Strong. Gibbon, fine, intelligent, mobile, sociable etc. Hardy Heron. Hardy, strong, LTS. Good name for an LTS. Heron, patient. Good name. Intrepid Ibex. Breaking new ground, Ibex is a call back to Ubuntu origin. Good name. Jaunty Jackalope. OK, here we go. A fictional creature that's a bit sure of itself. Karmic Koala. Karmic as in it has reached nirvana? I'm not sure Karmic was /that/ good. Koalas eat eucalyptus; was that a package introduced? Elastic computing thing? Lucid Lynx. Clear-minded wildcat. Umm. Not exactly a dependable creature for an LTS, then. Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Natty Narwhal. Oh come on. From WordNet (r) 2.0 : dapper adj : marked by smartness in dress and manners; a dapper young man; a jaunty red hat [syn: dashing, jaunty, natty, raffish, rakish, smart, spiffy, snappy, spruce] Dapper, Jaunty, Natty? Well, at least that's the codenames for R and S sorted (I'm going to bet now on Raffish and Spiffy). From WordNet (r) 2.0 : narwhal n : small arctic whale the male having a long spiral ivory tusk [syn: narwal, narwhale, Monodon monoceros] Monodon. Monoceros. Those are good names. Sound powerful, hints of rhinoceros (and Ubuntu again). Oh, wait, we've already had M in 10.10. Raffish Rhinoceros for 13.04, anyone? Nah, rhinoceros is too well known. It would have to be something like Raffish Roach (that's right, it's a fish, but people will think it's a cockroach. Perfect!). Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. Jonathon Oh, if 13.04 is Raffish Roach do I get a prize? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18/08/10 22:07, David King wrote: With a name like that, how long before the media call it the NUTTY Narwhal? Or the NUTTY KNOW-ALL? Worse name ever for an Ubuntu release. Calling any product Natty is a recipe for disaster. They could have chosen something more positive, such as Nimble Nightingale. David King Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: On 17 August 2010 19:44, Laura Czajkowskila...@lczajkowski.com wrote: Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura -- Easy steps to make your product fail: 1) Give it a name only the developers would understand in its proper context, e.g. GIMP. 2) ??? 3) Profit! *cough* Sorry. 2) Promote the product via this name (or codename). 3) Wonder why the general public (general ignorant audience) don't jump on board when they think the name sounds unprofessional or just plain stupid (e.g. GIMP). 4) Resist all urges by your community to change the name as there's nothing wrong with it. If you read this far, thank you. The point I think I'm trying to make is that Canonical seems to be wandering further and further off into obscure yet geeky-cool naming schemes. Let's look at them shall we? Warty Warthog. Fine. It was warty. Makes sense, warthog. Warts. Fine. Hoary Hedgehog. Familiar animal, hairy so mature. OK I guess. Breezy Badger. Easy breezy. Nice and simple. Badger is a dependable creature. Good name. Dapper Drake. Dapper, polished. Good. LTS. Drake? It's a male duck. Umm. They like to gang rape female ducks? Or do you mean a flying dragon? Edgy Eft. Edgy, damned right it was. WTF is an Eft? Feisty Fawn. Bit musty and mouldy? Grovelling about on the floor? Oh, wait, you mean eager? And a deer? An eager deer? Gutsy Gibbon. Gutsy, fine. Strong. Gibbon, fine, intelligent, mobile, sociable etc. Hardy Heron. Hardy, strong, LTS. Good name for an LTS. Heron, patient. Good name. Intrepid Ibex. Breaking new ground, Ibex is a call back to Ubuntu origin. Good name. Jaunty Jackalope. OK, here we go. A fictional creature that's a bit sure of itself. Karmic Koala. Karmic as in it has reached nirvana? I'm not sure Karmic was /that/ good. Koalas eat eucalyptus; was that a package introduced? Elastic computing thing? Lucid Lynx. Clear-minded wildcat. Umm. Not exactly a dependable creature for an LTS, then. Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Natty Narwhal. Oh come on. From WordNet (r) 2.0 : dapper adj : marked by smartness in dress and manners; a dapper young man; a jaunty red hat [syn: dashing, jaunty, natty, raffish, rakish, smart, spiffy, snappy, spruce] Dapper, Jaunty, Natty? Well, at least that's the codenames for R and S sorted (I'm going to bet now on Raffish and Spiffy). From WordNet (r) 2.0 : narwhal n : small arctic whale the male having a long spiral ivory tusk [syn: narwal, narwhale, Monodon monoceros] Monodon. Monoceros. Those are good names. Sound powerful, hints of rhinoceros (and Ubuntu again). Oh, wait, we've already had M in 10.10. Raffish Rhinoceros for 13.04, anyone? Nah, rhinoceros is too well known. It would have to be something like Raffish Roach (that's right, it's a fish, but people will think it's a cockroach. Perfect!). Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. Jonathon Oh, if 13.04 is Raffish Roach do I get a prize? Aww who cares, to me as long as there are updates that help to make things work, I really dont care. John -- Ubuntu User #30817 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18 August 2010 18:11, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: I did not say that it was necessarily a generally accepted definition, merely that by that definition GIMP is recursive and therefore my original statement that 'it depends on the definition' is true. Having said that I believe I have seen that definition used somewhere on the web so it must be ok. I will just have a quick google ... Ah yes, have a look at http://old.nabble.com/11.04-Natty-Narwhal-td29463807i20.html#a29470562 Except that Wikipedia says no such thing, so you are deluding yourself completely... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym So, please, before we all lose the will to live instead of INVENTING definitions to back up your assertion, try sending some LINKS to ANY definition that suggests GIMP is recursive, for it is not and will never be so... unless you prove otherwise. Case closed for now, methinks! Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 18/08/10 23:19, Sean Miller wrote: On 18 August 2010 18:11, Colin Lawclan...@googlemail.com wrote: I did not say that it was necessarily a generally accepted definition, merely that by that definition GIMP is recursive and therefore my original statement that 'it depends on the definition' is true. Having said that I believe I have seen that definition used somewhere on the web so it must be ok. I will just have a quick google ... Ah yes, have a look at http://old.nabble.com/11.04-Natty-Narwhal-td29463807i20.html#a29470562 Except that Wikipedia says no such thing, so you are deluding yourself completely... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym So, please, before we all lose the will to live instead of INVENTING definitions to back up your assertion, try sending some LINKS to ANY definition that suggests GIMP is recursive, for it is not and will never be so... unless you prove otherwise. Case closed for now, methinks! Sean Who cares... -- Ubuntu User #30817 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
yes fun to know the new name, saw it on Planet Ubuntu and Jono Bacons twitter before reading your email tough :p Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:44:14 +0100 From: la...@lczajkowski.com To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski http://www.lczajkowski.com Skype: lauraczajkowski -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 19:44, Laura Czajkowski la...@lczajkowski.com wrote: Aloha, Thought folks might be interested to know that 11.04 will be the Natty Narwhal http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/478 Laura -- Easy steps to make your product fail: 1) Give it a name only the developers would understand in its proper context, e.g. GIMP. 2) ??? 3) Profit! *cough* Sorry. 2) Promote the product via this name (or codename). 3) Wonder why the general public (general ignorant audience) don't jump on board when they think the name sounds unprofessional or just plain stupid (e.g. GIMP). 4) Resist all urges by your community to change the name as there's nothing wrong with it. If you read this far, thank you. The point I think I'm trying to make is that Canonical seems to be wandering further and further off into obscure yet geeky-cool naming schemes. Let's look at them shall we? Warty Warthog. Fine. It was warty. Makes sense, warthog. Warts. Fine. Hoary Hedgehog. Familiar animal, hairy so mature. OK I guess. Breezy Badger. Easy breezy. Nice and simple. Badger is a dependable creature. Good name. Dapper Drake. Dapper, polished. Good. LTS. Drake? It's a male duck. Umm. They like to gang rape female ducks? Or do you mean a flying dragon? Edgy Eft. Edgy, damned right it was. WTF is an Eft? Feisty Fawn. Bit musty and mouldy? Grovelling about on the floor? Oh, wait, you mean eager? And a deer? An eager deer? Gutsy Gibbon. Gutsy, fine. Strong. Gibbon, fine, intelligent, mobile, sociable etc. Hardy Heron. Hardy, strong, LTS. Good name for an LTS. Heron, patient. Good name. Intrepid Ibex. Breaking new ground, Ibex is a call back to Ubuntu origin. Good name. Jaunty Jackalope. OK, here we go. A fictional creature that's a bit sure of itself. Karmic Koala. Karmic as in it has reached nirvana? I'm not sure Karmic was /that/ good. Koalas eat eucalyptus; was that a package introduced? Elastic computing thing? Lucid Lynx. Clear-minded wildcat. Umm. Not exactly a dependable creature for an LTS, then. Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Natty Narwhal. Oh come on. From WordNet (r) 2.0 : dapper adj : marked by smartness in dress and manners; a dapper young man; a jaunty red hat [syn: dashing, jaunty, natty, raffish, rakish, smart, spiffy, snappy, spruce] Dapper, Jaunty, Natty? Well, at least that's the codenames for R and S sorted (I'm going to bet now on Raffish and Spiffy). From WordNet (r) 2.0 : narwhal n : small arctic whale the male having a long spiral ivory tusk [syn: narwal, narwhale, Monodon monoceros] Monodon. Monoceros. Those are good names. Sound powerful, hints of rhinoceros (and Ubuntu again). Oh, wait, we've already had M in 10.10. Raffish Rhinoceros for 13.04, anyone? Nah, rhinoceros is too well known. It would have to be something like Raffish Roach (that's right, it's a fish, but people will think it's a cockroach. Perfect!). Enough ranting. I'll leave you with this: From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 : narwhal it is called also sea unicorn, unicorn fish, and unicorn whale. Jonathon Oh, if 13.04 is Raffish Roach do I get a prize? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:07, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: 2) Promote the product via this name (or codename). The name is only supposed to be used by developers during the development cycle. Once it releases it becomes 10.04, 10.10 etc. 3) Wonder why the general public (general ignorant audience) don't jump on board when they think the name sounds unprofessional or just plain stupid (e.g. GIMP). It's Ubuntu 10.04. Look at the CD, it doesn't say Lucid _anywhere_ on it. Note the release announcement even plays down the name calling it just a 'codename'. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-April/000133.html We in the Ubuntu community should be encouraging people to use the version numbers for releases and the codenames for development versions. However _within_ our community it's not unusual to continue using the names because we build an affection for them, having worked on them for months and sporting t-shirts depicting the animals. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17/08/10 21:07, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: Easy steps to make your product fail: 1) Give it a name only the developers would understand in its proper context, e.g. GIMP. 2) ??? 3) Profit! snip *cough* Sorry. Maverick Meerkat. Advert tie-in. Simples. Was any new ground broken? I can't really think of any, indicator was introduced in Lucid. Oh wait, the window button positions. That's ground-breaking, obviously. Natty Narwhal. Oh come on. snip spoilsport! the Narwhal isn't as photogenic as a Meerkat certainly, but the codenames are just codenames for the release in development, once released it will be Ubuntu 11.04 take a look at the Lucid desktop CD, there is no mention of Lucid or Lynx (but if you open it up and look inside the pocket there is a dotty Lynx image). On a point of detail the window button positions were in Lucid, you haven't seen everything in Maverick, I think the multi-touch stuff and unity might qualify as somewhat ground breaking though. Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
one more thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X Kodiak Cheetah Puma Jaguar Panther Tiger Leopard Snow Leopard didn't seem to hurt them too much. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
snip Oh, if 13.04 is Raffish Roach do I get a prize? /Snip I do!! Personalised distro ;) :D -- Sent from my Nokia N900 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:29, Alan Bell alan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: one more thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames Janus Sparta Snowball Chicago O'Hare Frosting Detroit Nashville Memphis Dolly :) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:21, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: not sure where to snip so here will do We in the Ubuntu community should be encouraging people to use the version numbers for releases and the codenames for development versions. However _within_ our community it's not unusual to continue using the names because we build an affection for them, having worked on them for months and sporting t-shirts depicting the animals. snip There was I think I was posting to a UK list. Looks like I forgot the huge /s tag. Sorry about that. Won't happen again. (/s and a :P) What version of Linux are you running? 10.04 Oh. Now, which of the following is more likely: What version of Mac OS are you running? Snow Leopard Cool! What version of Mac OS are you running? 10.6.4 Cool! IIRC from an episode of UUPC the design lead at Canonical was talking about being Ubuntu's design now being compared to Mac OS X. I think it's fair to start looking at more than just the interface. Re-reading, I think I'm close to trolling, but my main intention was to to create discussion points (certainly more than troll). Love Gmail, just got this through as I was typing: On 17 August 2010 21:29, Alan Bell alan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: one more thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X Kodiak Cheetah Puma Jaguar Panther Tiger Leopard Snow Leopard didn't seem to hurt them too much. What do the names have in common? Power, aggression, positive non-developer-focussed imagery. Ford Cougar vs. Ford Mundano. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17/08/10 21:34, Alan Pope wrote: Janus Sparta Snowball Chicago O'Hare Frosting Detroit Nashville Memphis Dolly :) yeah, those all suck :) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:34, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: On 17 August 2010 21:29, Alan Bell alan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: one more thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames Janus Sparta Snowball Chicago O'Hare Frosting Detroit Nashville Memphis Dolly :) And we all know how well Microsoft software is regarded. ;) Look at the latest ones though (slight cherry-picking, but hey): Longhorn Mojave Q, Quattro Vail Cougar Viridian Centro Blackcomb, Vienna Red Dog A little more positive/aggressive-sounding, perhaps? Windows mobile: Magneto Crossbow Yamazaki Photon Nothing soft-sounding here either. I'm probably leaving myself open to the whole Android dessert-based stuff, aren't I? But then, Google has to be friendly-friendly or you wouldn't give them your data. Android Cupcake? Cakes can't be bad. Android NetTrax? Uh. Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:35, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: There was I think I was posting to a UK list. Looks like I forgot the huge /s tag. Sorry about that. Won't happen again. (/s and a :P) What version of Linux are you running? 10.04 Oh. We get people in #ubuntu-uk asking for help. They mostly say things like:- The latest one 8.04 How do I find out? If they're 'one of us' they might well say 'lucid' or 'gutsy'. Now, which of the following is more likely: What version of Mac OS are you running? Snow Leopard Cool! What version of Mac OS are you running? 10.6.4 Cool! Isn't that because they _rely_ on the animal branding. The OSX box has a dirty great snow leopard on the outside. I actually am typing this on a Mac and I have to make some effort to find out what version of OSX it is because I don't know. So it's not _quite_ the same. We brand with numbers and use codenames during development, Apple use the codename _as_ the brand. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:43, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing soft-sounding here either. I'm probably leaving myself open to the whole Android dessert-based stuff, aren't I? But then, Google has to be friendly-friendly or you wouldn't give them your data. Android Cupcake? Cakes can't be bad. Android NetTrax? Uh. Again Android doesn't use the codename as the branding for consumers - the same way we don't. I have no idea what dessert goes with which release of Android, I just know 1.5 - 1.6 - 2.1 - 2.2. I have a vauge idea about eclairs and froyos because I've seen giant desserts, but your average joe doesn't see that. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17 August 2010 21:45, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: We get people in #ubuntu-uk asking for help. They mostly say things like:- The latest one 8.04 How do I find out? OK, then it works. That's great! I actually am typing this on a Mac and I have to make some effort to find out what version of OSX it is because I don't know. *boots VM* Well what do you know. About This Mac, Version 10.6.4. Isn't that because they _rely_ on the animal branding. The OSX box has a dirty great snow leopard on the outside. Yup. Marketing. It's like having a tiger in your tank, but a leopard in your laptop. I have a meerkat in my machine. Not quite sure what it's up to. On 17 August 2010 21:47, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: Again Android doesn't use the codename as the branding for consumers - the same way we don't. I have no idea what dessert goes with which release of Android, I just know 1.5 - 1.6 - 2.1 - 2.2. I have a vauge idea about eclairs and froyos because I've seen giant desserts, but your average joe doesn't see that. I suppose it comes down to your market. Thinking about it, mobile phones are consumer items. It's a Nokia or a Samsung, not a Symbian or Brew or Android or Windows Mobile. Or is it? They are definitely promoting Android phones (I probably don't need to talk about iPhone here), but then the version numbers are nice and low. Android 2. iPhone (iOS) 4. Perhaps the key point is these companies (Google and Apple) already have mindshare and each version has definite, obvious improvements over the last. Linux generally has incremental improvements, so there's not an obvious wow moment (just look at the development of Aqua and Aero and compare to GNOME). Anyone I've shown Ubuntu to likes Compiz, not the OS, but this is not what is marketed and certainly not why most of *us* use Linux. The interface also stays the same for the vast majority of users after an upgrade - no new theme, no new effects, just the same as before. Maybe we need a hint after an upgrade: New themes are available! Would you like to view them?, taking them to Appearance. I think this goes back to a discussion from a while back to do with marketing to a specific target audience (business, school, home). Each want different things - but until we start to think of it in that way, and identify the market for Ubuntu, it won't see a great deal more adoption outside of the Linux community; while taking Red Hat and SuSE market share can be profitable for Canonical, it's not exactly why I spend my time hacking away (in my own small way). What was my point? No idea. I've gone way, way off topic. Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 11.04 Natty Narwhal
On 17/08/10 22:11, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: I suppose it comes down to your market. Thinking about it, mobile phones are consumer items. It's a Nokia or a Samsung, not a Symbian or Brew or Android or Windows Mobile. Or is it? They are definitely promoting Android phones (I probably don't need to talk about iPhone here), but then the version numbers are nice and low. Android 2. iPhone (iOS) 4. Perhaps the key point is these companies (Google and Apple) already have mindshare and each version has definite, obvious improvements over the last. Linux generally has incremental improvements, so there's not an obvious wow moment (just look at the development of Aqua and Aero and compare to GNOME). Anyone I've shown Ubuntu to likes Compiz, not the OS, but this is not what is marketed well depends how often you like your releases. If you go for daily updates of the development version of Ubuntu then you will see incremental improvements (and breakages) if you go for the stable final releases then you see bigger jumps, if you go from LTS to LTS then you see really quite big changes. The thing is you can dip in as often as you like, and you don't need to re-purchase it to do so. and certainly not why most of *us* use Linux. The interface also stays the same for the vast majority of users after an upgrade - no new theme, no new effects, just the same as before. Maybe we need a hint after an upgrade: New themes are available! Would you like to view them?, taking them to Appearance. and the window buttons never moved . . . http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/look-back-at-ubuntu-and-its-default.html I think this goes back to a discussion from a while back to do with marketing to a specific target audience (business, school, home). Each want different things - but until we start to think of it in that way, and identify the market for Ubuntu, it won't see a great deal more take a look at http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ and how the communication guidelines change depending on the target audience identified adoption outside of the Linux community; while taking Red Hat and SuSE market share can be profitable for Canonical, it's not exactly why I spend my time hacking away (in my own small way). What was my point? No idea. I've gone way, way off topic. Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
