Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15/03/12 22:44, Liam Proven wrote: But I reckon that many of the new users flooding across once 12.04 is the new LTS are going to want actual good old-fashioned menus. :¬/ Are you sure about this? I am not. Most of the friends I help with Ubuntu are only interested in the apps they use. These are very non geeks. They have no interest whatsoever in all the other stuff, and this is most obvious when in a support conversation I state an app and its (menu) path in the menu structure. The menu path is an issue for them, and is treated with great reverence like some ritual. For myself, I have fairly good knowledge of the content of the menus even though I do not use many of the apps. I believe that in future, all I need to do is tell them to type the app name, and then run it. If they want to be independent, what they will do is use the dash and then drill down, as I will. I do expect that there will be a way to drill down or display all installed apps whatever. I think that most of the world's population ( =future Ubuntu users) will be happy or even, happier, without menus. -- alan cocks -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 16/03/12 08:24, alan c wrote: On 15/03/12 22:44, Liam Proven wrote: But I reckon that many of the new users flooding across once 12.04 is the new LTS are going to want actual good old-fashioned menus. :¬/ Are you sure about this? I am not. Most of the friends I help with Ubuntu are only interested in the apps they use. These are very non geeks. They have no interest whatsoever in all the other stuff, and this is most obvious when in a support conversation I state an app and its (menu) path in the menu structure. The menu path is an issue for them, and is treated with great reverence like some ritual. For myself, I have fairly good knowledge of the content of the menus even though I do not use many of the apps. I believe that in future, all I need to do is tell them to type the app name, and then run it. If they want to be independent, what they will do is use the dash and then drill down, as I will. I do expect that there will be a way to drill down or display all installed apps whatever. I think that most of the world's population ( =future Ubuntu users) will be happy or even, happier, without menus. well the problem is that there is zero organisation of the apps, you can't drag them around onto different pages like you do on a smartphone to put them in an order that makes sense to you, and they are not pre-sorted in a way that makes sense to anyone. It just looks like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/dash.jpg which isn't particularly helpful if you want to see related applications together. Alphabetical sorting of apps is not really a useful sort order for discovering them. Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 16/03/12 08:44, Alan Bell wrote: On 16/03/12 08:24, alan c wrote: On 15/03/12 22:44, Liam Proven wrote: But I reckon that many of the new users flooding across once 12.04 is the new LTS are going to want actual good old-fashioned menus. :¬/ Are you sure about this? I am not. Most of the friends I help with Ubuntu are only interested in the apps they use. These are very non geeks. They have no interest whatsoever in all the other stuff, and this is most obvious when in a support conversation I state an app and its (menu) path in the menu structure. The menu path is an issue for them, and is treated with great reverence like some ritual. For myself, I have fairly good knowledge of the content of the menus even though I do not use many of the apps. I believe that in future, all I need to do is tell them to type the app name, and then run it. If they want to be independent, what they will do is use the dash and then drill down, as I will. I do expect that there will be a way to drill down or display all installed apps whatever. I think that most of the world's population ( =future Ubuntu users) will be happy or even, happier, without menus. well the problem is that there is zero organisation of the apps, you can't drag them around onto different pages like you do on a smartphone to put them in an order that makes sense to you, and they are not pre-sorted in a way that makes sense to anyone. It just looks like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/dash.jpg which isn't particularly helpful if you want to see related applications together. Alphabetical sorting of apps is not really a useful sort order for discovering them. Hi Alan, I do see your point. However, when, a while ago I first used Unity and the dash, I poked around looking for stuff and trying to make sense of (something) ... But I remember that when I came across this alphabet big list, I felt relieved! Logical or not logical, it still felt ok. In retrospect, to me as only a very occasional user of anything esoteric, an alphabetic sort is as good as anything. And if an internet search (or dash search) would reveal an Ubuntu app name of interest, then, again alphbetic would be fine. And beautifully simple even for non geeks. Although, to most of the people I help I *am* a geek, but I don't think so :-) The simplicity wins hands down for me, at a deep level of comfort. With my novice geek hat on, there is hardly any benefit in me knowing that one app can be classed as graphics, or media or whatever. I will almost certainly get to a desired function via a search facility - dash search? Or certainly (google) internet search. When I bought a microwave I used effort (!) to get one only with a simple knob timer on the front. And this was not for myself, but required by my highly tech literate daughter. It is what I would get for myself too. My android TMobile phone has alphabetic in the big list of apps, which is ok. I use the front page area for my several most used apps, which I control by dragging in and out. But the front page could just as well be my 'most used' list and created automatically. Although I think I prefer the manual control method. -- alan cocks -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 16 March 2012 08:24, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote: On 15/03/12 22:44, Liam Proven wrote: But I reckon that many of the new users flooding across once 12.04 is the new LTS are going to want actual good old-fashioned menus. :¬/ Are you sure about this? I am not. Most of the friends I help with Ubuntu are only interested in the apps they use. These are very non geeks. They have no interest whatsoever in all the other stuff, and this is most obvious when in a support conversation I state an app and its (menu) path in the menu structure. The menu path is an issue for them, and is treated with great reverence like some ritual. For myself, I have fairly good knowledge of the content of the menus even though I do not use many of the apps. I believe that in future, all I need to do is tell them to type the app name, and then run it. If they want to be independent, what they will do is use the dash and then drill down, as I will. I do expect that there will be a way to drill down or display all installed apps whatever. I think that most of the world's population ( =future Ubuntu users) will be happy or even, happier, without menus. No, I'm not sure, it's just a feeling. I moved from Android to iOS this year and I miss even Android's rudimentary menus. I hate the phone-style big-mess-of-apps launcher screens. I find it overwhelming and daunting. Menus are browseable. That's how I learn what options I have. Sure, then I use keystrokes to select the options I want - because I learned to use PCs before the era of the mouse - but to learn what the options *are* I like menus. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 16 March 2012 08:44, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: well the problem is that there is zero organisation of the apps, you can't drag them around onto different pages like you do on a smartphone to put them in an order that makes sense to you, and they are not pre-sorted in a way that makes sense to anyone. It just looks like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/dash.jpg which isn't particularly helpful if you want to see related applications together. Alphabetical sorting of apps is not really a useful sort order for discovering them. Yes! This! -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 16 March 2012 13:00, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote: Hi Alan, I do see your point. However, when, a while ago I first used Unity and the dash, I poked around looking for stuff and trying to make sense of (something) ... But I remember that when I came across this alphabet big list, I felt relieved! Logical or not logical, it still felt ok. That's fine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, and it's quite possible that new migrants to Ubuntu as of 12.04 will be fine with it. It's those coming across from 10.04 that I'm worried about. They - like me - are used to menus you can browse, I think most of them are going to hate the Dash and the HUD. I'd be very happy to be wrong about this - but it's my suspicion. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15/03/12 18:56, Liam Proven wrote: Is it possible to write an applet that runs just as an icon in the Launcher and whose UI just consists of context menus? kind of, this would be just a .desktop file with a list of commands to run for each quicklist http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/ Alan -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15 March 2012 19:12, Alan Bell alan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 15/03/12 18:56, Liam Proven wrote: Is it possible to write an applet that runs just as an icon in the Launcher and whose UI just consists of context menus? kind of, this would be just a .desktop file with a list of commands to run for each quicklist http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/ What I had in mind was an applet which, on a left click, displayed a hierarchical applications menu, picking it up from the categories that are still present and buried in Ubuntu somewhere. In other words, what you get if on Mac OS X you drag the Applications folder to the Dock: basically, a Start menu replacement. For all those who hate the Unity dash - and I am not fond of it myself - it would replace the lost functionality of the GNOME 2 panel menus. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15/03/12 19:21, Liam Proven wrote: On 15 March 2012 19:12, Alan Bellalan.b...@libertus.co.uk wrote: On 15/03/12 18:56, Liam Proven wrote: Is it possible to write an applet that runs just as an icon in the Launcher and whose UI just consists of context menus? kind of, this would be just a .desktop file with a list of commands to run for each quicklist http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/ What I had in mind was an applet which, on a left click, displayed a hierarchical applications menu, picking it up from the categories that are still present and buried in Ubuntu somewhere. In other words, what you get if on Mac OS X you drag the Applications folder to the Dock: basically, a Start menu replacement. For all those who hate the Unity dash - and I am not fond of it myself - it would replace the lost functionality of the GNOME 2 panel menus. oh, interesting. Sadly it won't work as the quicklists do not permit a hierarchical menu structure (yes, I tried) One thing I can do with the quicklists api stuff is add quicklists for all the windows of an application. That means you can find and raise the one window you want from the set of windows of an application type without all the others rising to the top. This also stops you wanting to stab your monitor quite so frequently. If you want to try it out the code is here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quicklists.py and I have a badly made package of it here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unity-window-quicklists.deb I think the way to fix the unity dash is to just fix the applications lens so it uses the categories as categories like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/applicationslens.png Alan. -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15/03/12 22:27, Alan Bell wrote: I think the way to fix the unity dash is to just fix the applications lens so it uses the categories as categories like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/applicationslens.png wrong image, I meant this one http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png Alan. -- The Open Learning Centre is rebranding, find out about our new name and look at http://libertus.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Launcher applets
On 15 March 2012 22:27, Alan Bell alanb...@ubuntu.com wrote: oh, interesting. Sadly it won't work as the quicklists do not permit a hierarchical menu structure (yes, I tried) I had a look at quicklists and figured they probably were not what I wanted or needed. The question is, can one create an app that runs /only/ in the Launcher, has no windows of its own, but generates draws its own menus? I've seen someone try to do it with an Indicator but it felt to me like it was in the wrong place, being over on the right. One thing I can do with the quicklists api stuff is add quicklists for all the windows of an application. That means you can find and raise the one window you want from the set of windows of an application type without all the others rising to the top. This also stops you wanting to stab your monitor quite so frequently. If you want to try it out the code is here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quicklists.py and I have a badly made package of it here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unity-window-quicklists.deb That's quite nifty! I think the way to fix the unity dash is to just fix the applications lens so it uses the categories as categories like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/applicationslens.png That was in part my inspiration, yes! Nice bit of work, by the way, if I have not already said so. But I reckon that many of the new users flooding across once 12.04 is the new LTS are going to want actual good old-fashioned menus. :¬/ -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
