Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 18 May 2010 10:16, Jonathan Davies wrote: >> If I'm already using "archive.ubuntu.com" while on Virgin, will it use the >> Virgin mirror? Or do I need to manually specify it? > > You have to specify it manually: > > - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ubuntu.virginmedia.com-archive > Or let the Software Sources app ping all the mirrors and figure out which one is best for you itself :) Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14/05/10 20:47, Tyler J. Wagner wrote: > On Friday 14 May 2010 17:06:35 Anton Piatek wrote: >> This has been discussed several times on the Debian lists - there are >> several prototypes or packages that do this already, some even using >> bittorrent, however most of the consensus is that the packages are >> often small and the overhead of p2p is too high to get significant >> gains. Certainly with so many mirrors around you might argue it is too >> much effort (my ISP, virgin, have a mirror on their network so I get >> ridiculously fast apt updates for my system) > > If I'm already using "archive.ubuntu.com" while on Virgin, will it use the > Virgin mirror? Or do I need to manually specify it? You have to specify it manually: - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ubuntu.virginmedia.com-archive Cheers, Jonathan -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
I can see a few problems with this: * If it comes turned off by default, then most people won't be distributing the upgrades. * If it is turned on by default, people with caps will quickly max out, and most ill turn it off, going back to problem one. * Less popuar packages will heve little to no "seeds" to distribute them, and so will be snail-slow or even uninstallable. * Issue of trust: how do we know these updates are authentic? (though this could easily be solved via per-package signing) * Propagation of updates will be problematic - as everyone rushes to update, machines running as seeds will be thinly spreas and not even other machines set to share will be able to get at a copy. It'd probably be best to have this augment the existing centralised repo model rather than go for it out right. Way too many showstoppers. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 15 May 2010 14:56, Rob Beard wrote: > On 14/05/10 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: >> First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been >> lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. >> >> I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if >> packages could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? >> This would have several advantages, including: >> 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download >> everything multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all >> just happens. >> 2. There are times, such as when a release first comes out, when the >> repositories get huge spikes in demand, this would help with that. >> >> The potential downside would be the threat of packages containing >> malware being propagated around, but this can be got around by >> checksumming etc. >> >> Like most of my ideas, it appears someone else got there first. There is >> a package in the repositories called apt-p2p which appears to be what I >> am talking about. Its homepage is at http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ . >> Has anyone used this? What do people think of the concept? Could it be >> integrated into the GUI for managing sources? >> >> Hope that makes sense. >> >> Sam >> > > Actually that isn't too bad an idea, at least assuming your ISP doesn't > block/throttle P2P. I guess it would be handy for folks who just want > to upgrade between releases rather than download a fresh ISO and reinstall. > > I'm pretty certain there is some sort of signature check with Apt anyway > and it warns you if you get unsigned packages so maybe that might limit > the risk of getting any malware, at least on official packages. Oh, apt will cope with the idea fine - pgp signatures on the release file which contains sha1 hashes of each other file means that you should be pretty secure with it all. The question is whether you gain enough compared to the complexity and overheads of p2p... (personally I like the idea of each ISP running a mirror, but I suppose that doesn't scale for N distributions where as p2p should) Anton -- Anton Piatek email: an...@piatek.co.uk blog/photos:http://www.strangeparty.com pgp: [74B1FA37] (http://www.strangeparty.com/anton.asc) fingerprint: 7401 96D3 E037 2F8F 5965 A358 4046 71FD 74B1 FA37 No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14/05/10 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: > First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been > lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. > > I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if > packages could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? > This would have several advantages, including: > 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download > everything multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all > just happens. > 2. There are times, such as when a release first comes out, when the > repositories get huge spikes in demand, this would help with that. > > The potential downside would be the threat of packages containing > malware being propagated around, but this can be got around by > checksumming etc. > > Like most of my ideas, it appears someone else got there first. There is > a package in the repositories called apt-p2p which appears to be what I > am talking about. Its homepage is at http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ . > Has anyone used this? What do people think of the concept? Could it be > integrated into the GUI for managing sources? > > Hope that makes sense. > > Sam > Actually that isn't too bad an idea, at least assuming your ISP doesn't block/throttle P2P. I guess it would be handy for folks who just want to upgrade between releases rather than download a fresh ISO and reinstall. I'm pretty certain there is some sort of signature check with Apt anyway and it warns you if you get unsigned packages so maybe that might limit the risk of getting any malware, at least on official packages. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14 May 2010 20:47, Tyler J. Wagner wrote: > On Friday 14 May 2010 17:06:35 Anton Piatek wrote: >> This has been discussed several times on the Debian lists - there are >> several prototypes or packages that do this already, some even using >> bittorrent, however most of the consensus is that the packages are >> often small and the overhead of p2p is too high to get significant >> gains. Certainly with so many mirrors around you might argue it is too >> much effort (my ISP, virgin, have a mirror on their network so I get >> ridiculously fast apt updates for my system) > > If I'm already using "archive.ubuntu.com" while on Virgin, will it use the > Virgin mirror? Or do I need to manually specify it? Google for ubuntu virgin mirror, it will show you how. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On Friday 14 May 2010 17:06:35 Anton Piatek wrote: > This has been discussed several times on the Debian lists - there are > several prototypes or packages that do this already, some even using > bittorrent, however most of the consensus is that the packages are > often small and the overhead of p2p is too high to get significant > gains. Certainly with so many mirrors around you might argue it is too > much effort (my ISP, virgin, have a mirror on their network so I get > ridiculously fast apt updates for my system) If I'm already using "archive.ubuntu.com" while on Virgin, will it use the Virgin mirror? Or do I need to manually specify it? Regards, Tyler -- "It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible." -- Richard Feynman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14 May 2010 14:58, John Stevenson wrote: > On 14 May 2010 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: >> >> First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been >> lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. >> >> I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if >> packages could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? >> This would have several advantages, including: >> 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download >> everything multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all >> just happens. >> 2. There are times, such as when a release first comes out, when the >> repositories get huge spikes in demand, this would help with that. >> >> The potential downside would be the threat of packages containing malware >> being propagated around, but this can be got around by checksumming etc. >> >> Like most of my ideas, it appears someone else got there first. There is a >> package in the repositories called apt-p2p which appears to be what I am >> talking about. Its homepage is at http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ . Has >> anyone used this? What do people think of the concept? Could it be >> integrated into the GUI for managing sources? >> >> Hope that makes sense. >> >> Sam > > I am happy just using a local cache or sharing my /var/cache/apt/archives > directory on my NAS box at home when there is a new release. A few symbolic > links and I only ever download a package once. > > With the large amount of mirror sites available, especially in the UK so I > dont feel the need personally to do P2P, but its an interesting idea. > > You would need to be careful about the allowed upload bandwidth, as this can > adversly affect your internet download speed This has been discussed several times on the Debian lists - there are several prototypes or packages that do this already, some even using bittorrent, however most of the consensus is that the packages are often small and the overhead of p2p is too high to get significant gains. Certainly with so many mirrors around you might argue it is too much effort (my ISP, virgin, have a mirror on their network so I get ridiculously fast apt updates for my system) It never really took off in Debian... Anton -- Anton Piatek email: an...@piatek.co.uk blog/photos:http://www.strangeparty.com pgp: [74B1FA37] (http://www.strangeparty.com/anton.asc) fingerprint: 7401 96D3 E037 2F8F 5965 A358 4046 71FD 74B1 FA37 No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14 May 2010 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: > First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been > lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. > > I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if > packages could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? > This would have several advantages, including: > 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download everything > multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all just happens. > 2. There are times, such as when a release first comes out, when the > repositories get huge spikes in demand, this would help with that. > > The potential downside would be the threat of packages containing malware > being propagated around, but this can be got around by checksumming etc. > > Like most of my ideas, it appears someone else got there first. There is a > package in the repositories called apt-p2p which appears to be what I am > talking about. Its homepage is at http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ . Has > anyone used this? What do people think of the concept? Could it be > integrated into the GUI for managing sources? > > Hope that makes sense. > > Sam > I am happy just using a local cache or sharing my /var/cache/apt/archives directory on my NAS box at home when there is a new release. A few symbolic links and I only ever download a package once. With the large amount of mirror sites available, especially in the UK so I dont feel the need personally to do P2P, but its an interesting idea. You would need to be careful about the allowed upload bandwidth, as this can adversly affect your internet download speed -- John Stevenson jr0cket.com leanagilemachine.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
Hi Samuel, On 14 May 2010 13:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: > I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if packages > could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? Unsurprisingly you're not the first person to think this is a good idea. There are a few projects to achieve this. Jorge Castro has blogged about a few of them. http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/zeroconfing-squid-deb-proxy/ Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14 May 2010 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: > First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been > lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. > > I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if packages > could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? This would > have several advantages, including: > 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download everything > multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all just happens. > 2. There are times, such as when a release first comes out, when the > repositories get huge spikes in demand, this would help with that. > > The potential downside would be the threat of packages containing malware > being propagated around, but this can be got around by checksumming etc. > > Like most of my ideas, it appears someone else got there first. There is a > package in the repositories called apt-p2p which appears to be what I am > talking about. Its homepage is at http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ . Has > anyone used this? What do people think of the concept? Could it be > integrated into the GUI for managing sources? > > Hope that makes sense. > > Sam > There are some packages in the Ubuntu repositories that already do something like this. Look at: squid-deb-proxy - Squid proxy configuration optimized for deb packages squid-deb-proxy-client - Automatic proxy discovery for apt based on avahi They're available in universe on lucid (10.04). HTH Neil. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Peer to peer apt
On 14/05/10 12:18, Samuel Toogood wrote: > First post for a while, and I don't usually start threads, but I've been > lurking, and I don't think this has appeared before. > > I recently had an idea for improving ubuntu: Wouldn't it be good if > packages could be distributed in a peer to peer manner, as .isos can be? > This would have several advantages, including: > 1. If you have more than one ubuntu machine, no need to download > everything multiple times, and no need to maintain an apt-mirror, it all > just happens. I run apt-cacher-ng (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/apt-cacher-ng-http-download-proxy-for-software-packages.html) on one machine which acts as an apt proxy and cache. All machines apt-updates etc are routed via that. Once a package has been requested once, the rest get it very quickly. I realise this isn't a total answer to your idea but that's what I use. P2P sounds like something interesting but I wonder about issues of "trust" and security etc.. Al -- The Open Learning Centre http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
