Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
John wrote: I am sorry if this has come up before, also about cross posting, but I havent been able to find anything about it, so wanted to as about it. I am a from the UK, and because of my laptop not being up to Ubuntu specs, I have been looking into buying a laptop with ubuntu already installed. I have a friend in the USA that has just bought what he says is a really good Dell laptop with ubuntu in it for just over $400. I have been looking at the UK Dell site to fimd that the very basic Ubuntu Installed laptops by Dell, start at £300 plus Vat almost double the pirce in the USA. Ahh it's the same with everything. The Playstation 3 is about $399 over there which works out about £250, whereas over here they're about £300. The exchange rate at the moment between US and UK is $1.61 to £1, so just over $400 isn't that much less than £300, I'd say with VAT and delivery charges on top you'd probably be looking at about £100 difference between a UK spec laptop and a US spec laptop. You'd also have to consider that the US laptops have US layout keyboards. Not a major problem but can be a tad annoying. How come there is such a huge difference in cost? I know Dell is separate company to Ubuntu, but surely Ubuntu must have gone to discussions about their software being installed on laptops in this country. I don't think it's anything to do with Canonical. I mean Dell can download the software for free. Microsoft do special discount deals for companies such as Dell, and IIRC the crudware that is supplied with machines (McAfee Anti-Virus trials, Office 2007 Trials etc) helps subsidise the cost of the hardware. Technically it shouldn't really cost any more than Windows to stick Ubuntu on a machine as I'm sure Dell would create a standard build and then just stick on a disc image on each laptop (as they would do with a Windows machine). Being a new user, I really like Ubuntu, but I'm finding it extremely frustrating not being able to use it, admittedly mainly due to my lack of experience with it, but if I could find a laptop with it already installed at a cost like they are in the USA I would dump Windows altogether, and be able to concentrate on learning Ubuntu without having to get around the problems I'm finding using it in a dual boot environment. Well looking through the Linux Format magazines, there are companies which do provide laptops with Linux pre-installed. The other option is to do a bit of research (search Ubuntu forums, ask on here, search on Google), see what laptops out on the market and how compatible they generally are. Some laptops you'd probably find would work out of the box with Ubuntu (my old Dell Latitude D610 was such a beast) whereas others would probably fall over when it comes to things like wireless adaptors. I'm sure there would be someone local to you should could help install Ubuntu and provide support. That's one of the things I do in my area, I help with the installation and give tutorials on how to use it. (I run a business doing this, although I find that a lot of people just want Windows reinstalling because they've screwed it up and my suggestions of Ubuntu fall on deaf ears). Right now, I lost the use of my laptop in the Ubuntu boot, after trying to install the update from 8.04 to 8.10. I find it really frustrating that to get my Ubuntu back, I have to tell ubuntu not to load compiz, which takes up a lot of what Ubuntu is. Which means I'm missing out on a lot of the functions of Ubuntu. I wouldn't say compiz is a lot of functions. If anything I kind of get fed up with compiz and turn it off. Sure it looks fancy at first but I can't say I'm really fussed about eye candy like that. Assuming you haven't got that much data on your laptop, if I were you, I'd boot from an Ubuntu 8.04.1 Desktop CD, copy your existing data off onto something like a USB pen drive (you'd need to mount the hard drive first) and then reinstall, copying the data back on afterwards. Another thing I'd also recommend is to have a separate partition for /home. It's not the default as far as I can remember but it's not too hard to do and it can be done through the graphical installer. That way if things screw up you can reinstall and just tell the installer to format / (the root partition) and leave /home intact and mount it as /home. So why, if Ubuntu is trying to get more people to use their products are they making it so difficult and costly for people like me who are on the lower incomes, to be able to use their products? Is Dell the only company selling laptops with Ubuntu already installed? Does anybody know of any other company that sells them cheaper, or would I have to get one from the USA. If I do have to buy from the USA, will it work in the UK? To be honest I don't think it's a fault of Canonical or the Ubuntu community. It might be that some of the hardware has slight
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Rob Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John wrote: I am sorry if this has come up before, also about cross posting, but I havent been able to find anything about it, so wanted to as about it. I am a from the UK, and because of my laptop not being up to Ubuntu specs, I have been looking into buying a laptop with ubuntu already installed. I have a friend in the USA that has just bought what he says is a really good Dell laptop with ubuntu in it for just over $400. I have been looking at the UK Dell site to fimd that the very basic Ubuntu Installed laptops by Dell, start at £300 plus Vat almost double the pirce in the USA. Ahh it's the same with everything. The Playstation 3 is about $399 over there which works out about £250, whereas over here they're about £300. The exchange rate at the moment between US and UK is $1.61 to £1, so just over $400 isn't that much less than £300, I'd say with VAT and delivery charges on top you'd probably be looking at about £100 difference between a UK spec laptop and a US spec laptop. You'd also have to consider that the US laptops have US layout keyboards. Not a major problem but can be a tad annoying. How come there is such a huge difference in cost? I know Dell is separate company to Ubuntu, but surely Ubuntu must have gone to discussions about their software being installed on laptops in this country. I don't think it's anything to do with Canonical. I mean Dell can download the software for free. Microsoft do special discount deals for companies such as Dell, and IIRC the crudware that is supplied with machines (McAfee Anti-Virus trials, Office 2007 Trials etc) helps subsidise the cost of the hardware. Technically it shouldn't really cost any more than Windows to stick Ubuntu on a machine as I'm sure Dell would create a standard build and then just stick on a disc image on each laptop (as they would do with a Windows machine). Being a new user, I really like Ubuntu, but I'm finding it extremely frustrating not being able to use it, admittedly mainly due to my lack of experience with it, but if I could find a laptop with it already installed at a cost like they are in the USA I would dump Windows altogether, and be able to concentrate on learning Ubuntu without having to get around the problems I'm finding using it in a dual boot environment. Well looking through the Linux Format magazines, there are companies which do provide laptops with Linux pre-installed. The other option is to do a bit of research (search Ubuntu forums, ask on here, search on Google), see what laptops out on the market and how compatible they generally are. Some laptops you'd probably find would work out of the box with Ubuntu (my old Dell Latitude D610 was such a beast) whereas others would probably fall over when it comes to things like wireless adaptors. I'm sure there would be someone local to you should could help install Ubuntu and provide support. That's one of the things I do in my area, I help with the installation and give tutorials on how to use it. (I run a business doing this, although I find that a lot of people just want Windows reinstalling because they've screwed it up and my suggestions of Ubuntu fall on deaf ears). Right now, I lost the use of my laptop in the Ubuntu boot, after trying to install the update from 8.04 to 8.10. I find it really frustrating that to get my Ubuntu back, I have to tell ubuntu not to load compiz, which takes up a lot of what Ubuntu is. Which means I'm missing out on a lot of the functions of Ubuntu. I wouldn't say compiz is a lot of functions. If anything I kind of get fed up with compiz and turn it off. Sure it looks fancy at first but I can't say I'm really fussed about eye candy like that. Assuming you haven't got that much data on your laptop, if I were you, I'd boot from an Ubuntu 8.04.1 Desktop CD, copy your existing data off onto something like a USB pen drive (you'd need to mount the hard drive first) and then reinstall, copying the data back on afterwards. Another thing I'd also recommend is to have a separate partition for /home. It's not the default as far as I can remember but it's not too hard to do and it can be done through the graphical installer. That way if things screw up you can reinstall and just tell the installer to format / (the root partition) and leave /home intact and mount it as /home. So why, if Ubuntu is trying to get more people to use their products are they making it so difficult and costly for people like me who are on the lower incomes, to be able to use their products? Is Dell the only company selling laptops with Ubuntu already installed? Does anybody know of any other company that sells them cheaper, or would I have to get one from the USA. If I do have to buy from the USA, will it work in the UK? To be honest I don't think it's a fault of Canonical or
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
Matt Jones wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Rob Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John wrote: I am sorry if this has come up before, also about cross posting, but I havent been able to find anything about it, so wanted to as about it. I am a from the UK, and because of my laptop not being up to Ubuntu specs, I have been looking into buying a laptop with ubuntu already installed. I have a friend in the USA that has just bought what he says is a really good Dell laptop with ubuntu in it for just over $400. I have been looking at the UK Dell site to fimd that the very basic Ubuntu Installed laptops by Dell, start at 300 plus Vat almost double the pirce in the USA. Ahh it's the same with everything. The Playstation 3 is about $399 over there which works out about 250, whereas over here they're about 300. The exchange rate at the moment between US and UK is $1.61 to 1, so just over $400 isn't that much less than 300, I'd say with VAT and delivery charges on top you'd probably be looking at about 100 difference between a UK spec laptop and a US spec laptop. You'd also have to consider that the US laptops have US layout keyboards. Not a major problem but can be a tad annoying. How come there is such a huge difference in cost? I know Dell is separate company to Ubuntu, but surely Ubuntu must have gone to discussions about their software being installed on laptops in this country. I don't think it's anything to do with Canonical. I mean Dell can download the software for free. Microsoft do special discount deals for companies such as Dell, and IIRC the crudware that is supplied with machines (McAfee Anti-Virus trials, Office 2007 Trials etc) helps subsidise the cost of the hardware. Technically it shouldn't really cost any more than Windows to stick Ubuntu on a machine as I'm sure Dell would create a standard build and then just stick on a disc image on each laptop (as they would do with a Windows machine). Being a new user, I really like Ubuntu, but I'm finding it extremely frustrating not being able to use it, admittedly mainly due to my lack of experience with it, but if I could find a laptop with it already installed at a cost like they are in the USA I would dump Windows altogether, and be able to concentrate on learning Ubuntu without having to get around the problems I'm finding using it in a dual boot environment. Well looking through the Linux Format magazines, there are companies which do provide laptops with Linux pre-installed. The other option is to do a bit of research (search Ubuntu forums, ask on here, search on Google), see what laptops out on the market and how compatible they generally are. Some laptops you'd probably find would work out of the box with Ubuntu (my old Dell Latitude D610 was such a beast) whereas others would probably fall over when it comes to things like wireless adaptors. I'm sure there would be someone local to you should could help install Ubuntu and provide support. That's one of the things I do in my area, I help with the installation and give tutorials on how to use it. (I run a business doing this, although I find that a lot of people just want Windows reinstalling because they've screwed it up and my suggestions of Ubuntu fall on deaf ears). Right now, I lost the use of my laptop in the Ubuntu boot, after trying to install the update from 8.04 to 8.10. I find it really frustrating that to get my Ubuntu back, I have to tell ubuntu not to load compiz, which takes up a lot of what Ubuntu is. Which means I'm missing out on a lot of the functions of Ubuntu. I wouldn't say compiz is a lot of functions. If anything I kind of get fed up with compiz and turn it off. Sure it looks fancy at first but I can't say I'm really fussed about eye candy like that. Assuming you haven't got that much data on your laptop, if I were you, I'd boot from an Ubuntu 8.04.1 Desktop CD, copy your existing data off onto something like a USB pen drive (you'd need to mount the hard drive first) and then reinstall, copying the data back on afterwards. Another thing I'd also recommend is to have a separate partition for /home. It's not the default as far as I can remember but it's not too hard to do and it can be done through the graphical installer. That way if things screw up you can reinstall and just tell the installer to format / (the root partition) and leave /home intact and mount it as /home. So why, if Ubuntu is trying to get more people to use their products are they making it so difficult and costly for people like me who are on the lower incomes, to be able to use their products? Is Dell the only company selling laptops with Ubuntu already installed? Does anybody know of any other company that sells them cheaper, or would I have to get one from the USA. If I do have to buy from the USA, will it work in the UK? To be honest I don't think it's a
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
John wrote (about importing a laptop from the USA): What about getting somebody to buy it for me as a gift, That's fine so long as you're happy using an American keyboard. Frankly that'd drive me nuts; the at-symbol where double-quotes should be, hash where the pound sign should be, double-quotes where the at-symbol should be, and the pound sign nowhere to be found. http://www.saunalahti.fi/janij/blog/images/2007_feb_us_keyboard_layout.p ng I use Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 on a Dell Inspiron 1520. It's wonderful. Andrew Oakley Head of Software Development Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) 95 Promenade, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire GL50 1HZ T 01242 211460 F 01242 211122 W www.hesa.ac.uk http://www.hesa.ac.uk/ _ Higher Education Statistics Agency Ltd (HESA) is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England at 95 Promenade Cheltenham GL50 1HZ. Registered No. 2766993. The members are Universities UK and GuildHE. Registered Charity No. 1039709. Certified to ISO 9001 and BS 7799. HESA Services Ltd (HSL) is a wholly owned subsidiary of HESA, registered in England at the same address. Registered No. 3109219. _ This outgoing email was virus scanned for HESA by MessageLabs. _ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:27 PM, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Jones wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Rob Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John wrote: I am sorry if this has come up before, also about cross posting, but I havent been able to find anything about it, so wanted to as about it. I am a from the UK, and because of my laptop not being up to Ubuntu specs, I have been looking into buying a laptop with ubuntu already installed. I have a friend in the USA that has just bought what he says is a really good Dell laptop with ubuntu in it for just over $400. I have been looking at the UK Dell site to fimd that the very basic Ubuntu Installed laptops by Dell, start at £300 plus Vat almost double the pirce in the USA. Ahh it's the same with everything. The Playstation 3 is about $399 over there which works out about £250, whereas over here they're about £300. The exchange rate at the moment between US and UK is $1.61 to £1, so just over $400 isn't that much less than £300, I'd say with VAT and delivery charges on top you'd probably be looking at about £100 difference between a UK spec laptop and a US spec laptop. You'd also have to consider that the US laptops have US layout keyboards. Not a major problem but can be a tad annoying. How come there is such a huge difference in cost? I know Dell is separate company to Ubuntu, but surely Ubuntu must have gone to discussions about their software being installed on laptops in this country. I don't think it's anything to do with Canonical. I mean Dell can download the software for free. Microsoft do special discount deals for companies such as Dell, and IIRC the crudware that is supplied with machines (McAfee Anti-Virus trials, Office 2007 Trials etc) helps subsidise the cost of the hardware. Technically it shouldn't really cost any more than Windows to stick Ubuntu on a machine as I'm sure Dell would create a standard build and then just stick on a disc image on each laptop (as they would do with a Windows machine). Being a new user, I really like Ubuntu, but I'm finding it extremely frustrating not being able to use it, admittedly mainly due to my lack of experience with it, but if I could find a laptop with it already installed at a cost like they are in the USA I would dump Windows altogether, and be able to concentrate on learning Ubuntu without having to get around the problems I'm finding using it in a dual boot environment. Well looking through the Linux Format magazines, there are companies which do provide laptops with Linux pre-installed. The other option is to do a bit of research (search Ubuntu forums, ask on here, search on Google), see what laptops out on the market and how compatible they generally are. Some laptops you'd probably find would work out of the box with Ubuntu (my old Dell Latitude D610 was such a beast) whereas others would probably fall over when it comes to things like wireless adaptors. I'm sure there would be someone local to you should could help install Ubuntu and provide support. That's one of the things I do in my area, I help with the installation and give tutorials on how to use it. (I run a business doing this, although I find that a lot of people just want Windows reinstalling because they've screwed it up and my suggestions of Ubuntu fall on deaf ears). Right now, I lost the use of my laptop in the Ubuntu boot, after trying to install the update from 8.04 to 8.10. I find it really frustrating that to get my Ubuntu back, I have to tell ubuntu not to load compiz, which takes up a lot of what Ubuntu is. Which means I'm missing out on a lot of the functions of Ubuntu. I wouldn't say compiz is a lot of functions. If anything I kind of get fed up with compiz and turn it off. Sure it looks fancy at first but I can't say I'm really fussed about eye candy like that. Assuming you haven't got that much data on your laptop, if I were you, I'd boot from an Ubuntu 8.04.1 Desktop CD, copy your existing data off onto something like a USB pen drive (you'd need to mount the hard drive first) and then reinstall, copying the data back on afterwards. Another thing I'd also recommend is to have a separate partition for /home. It's not the default as far as I can remember but it's not too hard to do and it can be done through the graphical installer. That way if things screw up you can reinstall and just tell the installer to format / (the root partition) and leave /home intact and mount it as /home. So why, if Ubuntu is trying to get more people to use their products are they making it so difficult and costly for people like me who are on the lower incomes, to be able to use their products? Is Dell the only company selling laptops with Ubuntu already installed? Does anybody know of any other company that sells them cheaper, or would I have to get one from the USA. If I do have to buy from
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
snip I already have the transformer for other stuff I have from the USA Laptop's shouldn't need them. All of the power bricks I have ever seen are 110/240v, so you would just need to change the plug or buy the appropriate mains lead -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 17:40 +, Matt Jones wrote: I'm sure as Ubuntu gains in popularity it will start to get pre-installed on some new machines. The problem at the moment is that most people know Windows and that's what they ask for. Some companies probably think it's just not cost effective to supply Windows and Linux (be it Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE etc). There's a job for one of us, selling Linux boxes on eBay. Just need a bit of buying acumen. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
John wrote: What about getting somebody to buy it for me as a gift, could I get around import tax that way? I do have somebody who is willing to buy and send one to me. I already have the transformer for other stuff I have from the USA. Well I haven't tried it myself, I believe it could be used as a work around but I'd be careful, might be more hassle than it's worth, especially considering a possible lack of warranty. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against importing, in fact I bought a MiniDisc player/recorder cheaper from eBay in the states (well, adding on Western Union charges back then due to no paypal account bumped the cost up). I'd just be a bit weary when buying something which to me would be expensive. I know some companies offer international warranties (Toshiba being one) but IIRC they cost extra anyway. I have just joined the London group, which have a meet tonight, but they dont say where? The meet is in the west end, which is round the corner from me. I think this one is too soon to go to and ask about help, I might just see if I cant go to the next one. That's good. I'm in Devon so I wouldn't know where it is. I'd suggest putting a post on their mailing list if possible. I'm sure even if you miss the meeting they'll either have regular enough meetings or you might be able to meet a couple of the members for a pint/Ubuntu install session. As far as my laptop is concerned, its a brand new 250gig hd, that I bought last month, so it has very little on it apart from the Windows XP and Ubuntu on it. I have only just learnt how to partition, so I have no idea how to add a /home partition. So, as far as copying anything, I dont really need to, just either a reinstall or trying to get Ubuntu 8.10 to actually work. Would the group be able to help with installing the new drivers for VIA as well? I'm sure someone from your local LUG could help. I'd be happy to help if you was more local to me but alas as you're in London I'm afraid all I can really do is offer advice on the mailing list. I'm sure some of the folks on here though are in or around London and might be able to help? Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. You're welcome. Don't give up hope, you'll get there eventually. If I get chance to have a look at the VIA problem I'll let you know although at the moment I'm up to my ears in K6/2 motherboards (the wife has told me to have a sort out!). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
Andrew Oakley wrote: John wrote (about importing a laptop from the USA): What about getting somebody to buy it for me as a gift, That's fine so long as you're happy using an American keyboard. Frankly that'd drive me nuts; the at-symbol where double-quotes should be, hash where the pound sign should be, double-quotes where the at-symbol should be, and the pound sign nowhere to be found. http://www.saunalahti.fi/janij/blog/images/2007_feb_us_keyboard_layout.p ng A couple of years back I bought a Compaq keyboard from a computer fair for my flat mate. He was adamant that he wanted a keyboard without a £ sign as it was what he was used to. Turns out his old home PC had got the region set to US. I think I still have it somewhere. I could get on with a US keyboard (I've even got on with a French AZERTY keyboard once) but I wouldn't like it. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
Matt Jones wrote: snip I already have the transformer for other stuff I have from the USA Laptop's shouldn't need them. All of the power bricks I have ever seen are 110/240v, so you would just need to change the plug or buy the appropriate mains lead Actually that didn't occur to me! Duh, suppose you're right. Just like PC power supplies. I wish everything was like that! Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
Probably best to check just in case though :p On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Rob Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Jones wrote: snip I already have the transformer for other stuff I have from the USA Laptop's shouldn't need them. All of the power bricks I have ever seen are 110/240v, so you would just need to change the plug or buy the appropriate mains lead Actually that didn't occur to me! Duh, suppose you're right. Just like PC power supplies. I wish everything was like that! Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Question about Ubuntu installed Dell Laptops....
Rob Beard wrote: John wrote: What about getting somebody to buy it for me as a gift, could I get around import tax that way? I do have somebody who is willing to buy and send one to me. I already have the transformer for other stuff I have from the USA. Well I haven't tried it myself, I believe it could be used as a work around but I'd be careful, might be more hassle than it's worth, especially considering a possible lack of warranty. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against importing, in fact I bought a MiniDisc player/recorder cheaper from eBay in the states (well, adding on Western Union charges back then due to no paypal account bumped the cost up). I'd just be a bit weary when buying something which to me would be expensive. I know some companies offer international warranties (Toshiba being one) but IIRC they cost extra anyway. I have just joined the London group, which have a meet tonight, but they dont say where? The meet is in the west end, which is round the corner from me. I think this one is too soon to go to and ask about help, I might just see if I cant go to the next one. That's good. I'm in Devon so I wouldn't know where it is. I'd suggest putting a post on their mailing list if possible. I'm sure even if you miss the meeting they'll either have regular enough meetings or you might be able to meet a couple of the members for a pint/Ubuntu install session. As far as my laptop is concerned, its a brand new 250gig hd, that I bought last month, so it has very little on it apart from the Windows XP and Ubuntu on it. I have only just learnt how to partition, so I have no idea how to add a /home partition. So, as far as copying anything, I dont really need to, just either a reinstall or trying to get Ubuntu 8.10 to actually work. Would the group be able to help with installing the new drivers for VIA as well? I'm sure someone from your local LUG could help. I'd be happy to help if you was more local to me but alas as you're in London I'm afraid all I can really do is offer advice on the mailing list. I'm sure some of the folks on here though are in or around London and might be able to help? Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. You're welcome. Don't give up hope, you'll get there eventually. If I get chance to have a look at the VIA problem I'll let you know although at the moment I'm up to my ears in K6/2 motherboards (the wife has told me to have a sort out!). Rob I have just sent an e-mail to their list. I managed to contact somebody about the e-mail problems and they pointed me in the right direction. Thanks again for offering to look at the via driver, would be interested to find out about it, if you can get it working. John -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
