Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[James Tait]

On 06/11/14 21:01, Barry Drake wrote:
> On 05/11/14 15:22, Bill B. wrote:
>> We also need to [always], whether we know the answer or not ask 
>> one question when dealing with "big companies". "Does in work 
>> with Linux"?
> 
> Our local PCWorld has a policy (official) that staff must say: "We 
> don't support Linux".  I complained to head office and was told: 
> "This is because we don't sell anything with Linux installed."

A little over four years ago, I had reason to buy a decently-spec'd
laptop at very short notice, and PC World was the only realistic
option.  I was expecting exactly this kind of attitude, and was ready
to rebuff any offers of "help" that would try to steer me towards and
over-priced machine with Windows and all the add-ons.

A young lad came and asked if I needed any help, and I initially gave
him the brush-off with "just browsing for now, thanks."  He did
persist, though, so I explained that I was starting a new job on
Monday, would be working from home, and wanted a fairly powerful
laptop with a full HD screen, but didn't care about the software on it
because I'd be wiping it and installing Ubuntu as soon as I got it home.

Far from "we don't support Linux", his eyes lit up and he started
asking what I was going to be using it for, where I'd be working, etc.
 I came away with a knock-down deal on a Sony Vaio that, while it gave
me some initial teething problems with the nVidia graphics, served me
well until my laptop refresh last year, and is now providing solid
Facebook service to my wife.

I suppose the moral of the story is, regardless of PC World's
"official" policy, sometimes it just comes down to the particular
member of staff you end up dealing with.

JT

P.S.

I now have a System76 Gazelle Pro, which I bought just over a year
ago.  Great display (I went for the IPS upgrade), excellent
performance, but the keyboard (even with the proper Ubuntu key) is
terrible.  Having heard about PCSpecialist on this list, I configured
a similarly-spec'd laptop, and the price came in roughly £500 cheaper,
and obviously without the £200 import tax.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gareth France]

The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by:

1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux.
2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"...


I have done as suggested above and attempted my refund. I was told they 
would not do this as I should have bought the laptop without an OS. When 
I said that the retailer doesn't sell them like that they said there are 
retailers who do but could not name a single one or give me the price it 
would retail at.


Any suggestions or is it wipe and reinstall time?

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 07/11/14 02:21, Kris Douglas wrote:



I must say HP printers are cracking!

Kindest Regards,
Kris Douglas



I agree. My HP 5525 works perfectly on Ubuntu 14.04 - there's no 
function that doesn't work as far as I can see!


Cheers

Gordon
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Kris Douglas]

On 7 Nov 2014 01:00, "Pete Smout"  wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2014 11:39 PM, "Stuart Ward"  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 6 November 2014 21:24, Paul Sutton  wrote:
> >>
> >> Apart from Android devices,  and maybe chomebooks
> >
> >
> > And routers, TVs, set top boxes, cameras, car stereos, washing
machines, dishwashers...
>
> Car stereos, Windows 8, adobe Photoshop.
>
> Pete S
>
> > -- Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143
> >

I must say HP printers are cracking!

Kindest Regards,
Kris Douglas
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Pete Smout]

On Nov 6, 2014 11:39 PM, "Stuart Ward"  wrote:
>
>
> On 6 November 2014 21:24, Paul Sutton  wrote:
>>
>> Apart from Android devices,  and maybe chomebooks
>
>
> And routers, TVs, set top boxes, cameras, car stereos, washing machines,
dishwashers...

Car stereos, Windows 8, adobe Photoshop.

Pete S

> -- Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Stuart Ward]

On 6 November 2014 21:24, Paul Sutton  wrote:

> Apart from Android devices,  and maybe chomebooks
>

And routers, TVs, set top boxes, cameras, car stereos, washing machines,
dishwashers...

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Paul Sutton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



On 06/11/14 21:01, Barry Drake wrote:
> On 05/11/14 15:22, Bill B. wrote:
>> We also need to [always], whether we know the answer or not ask
>> one question when dealing with "big companies". "Does in work
>> with Linux"?
> 
> Our local PCWorld has a policy (official) that staff must say: "We
> don't support Linux".  I complained to head office and was told:
> "This is because we don't sell anything with Linux installed."

Apart from Android devices,  and maybe chomebooks

Paul

I made a further
> complaint that they DO sell peripherals that can work with Linux.
> I got back a fairly positive answer (for PCWorld).  I went to the
> local store to look at printers.  I showed them the e-mail and
> asked the question.
> 
> I don't think the staff members I talked to had a clue what I was 
> talking about.  I went to look at the printers they had in stock.
> I was approached by a staff member asking 'Can I help you sir?'.  I
> told him what I was looking for and he was really helpful.  It
> turned out that he was not a staff member but an HP rep.  'All of
> our printers are fully compatible with Linux.  He made his point
> and I now have a very nice HP printer/scanner.
> 
> Regards,Barry.
> 

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Barry Drake]

On 05/11/14 15:22, Bill B. wrote:
We also need to [always], whether we know the answer or not ask one 
question when dealing with "big companies". "Does in work with Linux"?


Our local PCWorld has a policy (official) that staff must say: "We don't 
support Linux".  I complained to head office and was told: "This is 
because we don't sell anything with Linux installed."  I made a further 
complaint that they DO sell peripherals that can work with Linux.  I got 
back a fairly positive answer (for PCWorld).  I went to the local store 
to look at printers.  I showed them the e-mail and asked the question.


I don't think the staff members I talked to had a clue what I was 
talking about.  I went to look at the printers they had in stock.  I was 
approached by a staff member asking 'Can I help you sir?'.  I told him 
what I was looking for and he was really helpful.  It turned out that he 
was not a staff member but an HP rep.  'All of our printers are fully 
compatible with Linux.  He made his point and I now have a very nice HP 
printer/scanner.


Regards,Barry.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Bill B.]

On Wed, 2014-11-05 at 11:42 +, Paul Sutton wrote:
> What we need to know before that is that the hardware works with Linux
> so having a live cd to hand ti test, id any internal components and
> then cross reference those to databases of Linux friendly hardware.

We also need to [always], whether we know the answer or not ask one
question when dealing with "big companies".
"Does in work with Linux"?
If answer = "I don't know" ... tell them why you are now walking out of
their store.
If answer = "yes"... tell them why you love them!
This applies to add-in cards, replacements to failed hardware, a new 
pc, laptop, tablet, anything...

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Simon Greenwood]

>
>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> Don't System 76 ship to the UK now?
> https://system76.com/
>

They do but you would still get hit by customs charges if you import one
and they are the same Clevo laptops that PC Specialist sell which you can
buy without an OS and use the System76 drivers on.

s/

>
>

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 03/11/14 12:57, Gareth France wrote:
I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we 
all go out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out 
the message to manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and 
so the cycle continues.


I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy 
a machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I 
was wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes 
I know Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to 
spend about £500.


Thanks



Don't System 76 ship to the UK now?
https://system76.com/


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Paul Sutton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



On 04/11/14 17:59, Gareth France wrote:
> I understand exactly what you mean and to be honest even if I got
> a Ubuntu preinstall on a machine I would most likely swap hard
> drives and use this install I'm using now or wipe and reinstall to
> my standard. I'm not expecting to find some sort of Linux holy
> grail out there I just resent the idea that some statistician
> somewhere has me marked down as a willing Windows user.
> 


Don't you have to register / activate windows,  by not doing so this
sends out part of a message.

I was chatting to one of the sales people  in Pc world torquay ages
ago, he knows about  Linux and was more of a mac guy,  so we do have
allies,  I don't think he likes MS / Windows either.

end of the day it is a SALE and if that sale comes only after having
Windows REMOVED and price reduced accordingly then its a sale on their
books.

What we need to know before that is that the hardware works with Linux
so having a live cd to hand ti test, id any internal components and
then cross reference those to databases of Linux friendly hardware.

I am also sure independent shops would help, for the reason above,

Paul
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gareth France]

I understand exactly what you mean and to be honest even if I got a 
Ubuntu preinstall on a machine I would most likely swap hard drives and 
use this install I'm using now or wipe and reinstall to my standard. I'm 
not expecting to find some sort of Linux holy grail out there I just 
resent the idea that some statistician somewhere has me marked down as a 
willing Windows user.


On 04/11/14 17:55, TT Mooney wrote:

Guys --

Just FYI, like a lot of other people, I bought a Dell with Ubuntu
pre-loaded. In my case, it's the Sputnik 3 (XPS 13 9333) 'Enterprise'
with HD5000 graphics.

It shipped with a Dell-approved build of 12.04, which worked well
enough, but had a funky boot process during which it was pretty much
impossible to enable LUKS. So I upgraded, and now on 14.04, there are
wireless issues which are pretty annoying, which Dell is very quiet about.

So, really, unless a vendor is going to commit to Linux, don't fool
yourself into thinking that everything will be peachy. I spent quite a
lot of my personal money on this laptop, and frankly the support from
Dell is non-existent. Ubuntu ran better on my Thinkpad (although the
laptop itself wasn't as nice), and on my eeepc 10".

Whatever you do, check every component for current kernel support, and
hope for no vendor abandonment or driver regressions.

I really hate to say it, but I've been looking at Macs again after 10+
years as a Linux on the desktop user. For the money I paid for this
Dell, I could have bought the similar Mac. And I bet wireless would work
pretty much all the time.

I've been thinking about how we ALMOST had a real Linux on the desktop
movement. But it's the little details that count, and if Dell and
Canonical can't keep a flagship product supported in the mainline
release, well, I can't say that I'm optimistic.

travis

PS -- I know this is a little bit of a hi-jack, but my friend that
recently started at Google was offered his choice of environment. On the
desktop: Linux or Mac. On the laptop: ChromeOS or Mac. What happened to
Gubuntu on the laptops?

PPS -- And the funny part? I kind of LIKE Unity. So there.

On 04/11/14 17:44, Gareth France wrote:

Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in
the near future I think.

On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote:

On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote:

On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France
 wrote:

Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't
think I
can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8!
I'm
sure there must be another way.


The real reason doesn't get talked about much.

It costs money to /not/ preload Windows.


Liam is right.

The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by:

1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux.
2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"...

If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded
the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better
platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC
with Linux or no OS...

(Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments):

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/



But it doesn't always work...

Al








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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[TT Mooney]

Guys --

Just FYI, like a lot of other people, I bought a Dell with Ubuntu
pre-loaded. In my case, it's the Sputnik 3 (XPS 13 9333) 'Enterprise'
with HD5000 graphics.

It shipped with a Dell-approved build of 12.04, which worked well
enough, but had a funky boot process during which it was pretty much
impossible to enable LUKS. So I upgraded, and now on 14.04, there are
wireless issues which are pretty annoying, which Dell is very quiet about.

So, really, unless a vendor is going to commit to Linux, don't fool
yourself into thinking that everything will be peachy. I spent quite a
lot of my personal money on this laptop, and frankly the support from
Dell is non-existent. Ubuntu ran better on my Thinkpad (although the
laptop itself wasn't as nice), and on my eeepc 10".

Whatever you do, check every component for current kernel support, and
hope for no vendor abandonment or driver regressions.

I really hate to say it, but I've been looking at Macs again after 10+
years as a Linux on the desktop user. For the money I paid for this
Dell, I could have bought the similar Mac. And I bet wireless would work
pretty much all the time.

I've been thinking about how we ALMOST had a real Linux on the desktop
movement. But it's the little details that count, and if Dell and
Canonical can't keep a flagship product supported in the mainline
release, well, I can't say that I'm optimistic.

travis

PS -- I know this is a little bit of a hi-jack, but my friend that
recently started at Google was offered his choice of environment. On the
desktop: Linux or Mac. On the laptop: ChromeOS or Mac. What happened to
Gubuntu on the laptops?

PPS -- And the funny part? I kind of LIKE Unity. So there.

On 04/11/14 17:44, Gareth France wrote:
> Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in
> the near future I think.
> 
> On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote:
>> On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France
>>>  wrote:
 Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't
 think I
 can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8!
 I'm
 sure there must be another way.
>>>
>>> The real reason doesn't get talked about much.
>>>
>>> It costs money to /not/ preload Windows.
>>
>> Liam is right.
>>
>> The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by:
>>
>> 1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux.
>> 2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"...
>>
>> If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded
>> the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better
>> platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC
>> with Linux or no OS...
>>
>> (Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments):
>>
>> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/
>>
>>
>>
>> But it doesn't always work...
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
> 

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gareth France]

Now this I like! I shall be attempting to get a refund for windows in 
the near future I think.


On 04/11/14 17:17, Alan Lord (News) wrote:

On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote:

On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France
 wrote:

Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't
think I
can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8!
I'm
sure there must be another way.


The real reason doesn't get talked about much.

It costs money to /not/ preload Windows.


Liam is right.

The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by:

1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux.
2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"...

If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded
the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better
platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC
with Linux or no OS...

(Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments):

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/


But it doesn't always work...

Al




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Alan Lord (News)]

On 04/11/14 15:54, Liam Proven wrote:

On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France  wrote:

Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I
can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm
sure there must be another way.


The real reason doesn't get talked about much.

It costs money to /not/ preload Windows.


Liam is right.

The only way you can "try" to make a point is either by:

1. Buying a machine from somewhere that sells then sans OS or with Linux.
2. Attempting to get a refund for the "Microsoft Tax"...

If you search google you will find cases where suppliers have refunded 
the license cost - and in doing so it arguably gives you an even better 
platform for broadcasting about it rather than just quietly buying a PC 
with Linux or no OS...


(Here's my story from July 2009 - and note the comments):

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/getting-your-microsoft-tax-refunded-1010-for-amazon-uk/

But it doesn't always work...

Al


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Liam Proven]

On 4 November 2014 16:42, Gareth France  wrote:
> Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't think I
> can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of Windows 8! I'm
> sure there must be another way.

The real reason doesn't get talked about much.

It costs money to /not/ preload Windows.

Manufacturers get advertising and marketing kickbacks from MICROS~1
for putting Windows on their machines. Also, without Windows, they
can't test machines pre-shipping -- they'd have to install it, test,
then remove it again, which obviously takes more time, means
dedicating a techie to it and therefore costs /more/ than shipping it
without.

Also, for 30y or so now, Microsoft have had very restrictive licensing
agreements. OEM vendors must sign contracts that say they will not
ship any other OSes, will not dual-boot, etc. If they won't sign, and
won't join the marketing campaigns, then their Windows licenses
mysteriously cost significantly more.

The system is sick, corrupt and broken, but it made the MS founders
very rich. Very rich people can afford good lawyers, and can afford to
lobby politicians, so they and their companies don't get prosecuted.

So, for instance, this monopoly did come to court. Judge Thomas
Penfield Jackson found MS guilty, noting that they lied in court,
falsified evidence, that witnesses were shifty and evasive etc.

He ordered MS split into apps and OS divisions.

MS appealed, the case was sent to a new judge, Judge Colleen
Kollar-Kotelly, who reversed the decision and let them off.

Various companies have also sued MS plagiarism *and won*, including
Apple (the settlement was spun as a "strategic investment"), Stacker
(who moved out of disk compression, which MS stole, and into
remote-control, but just as the public/consumer Internet broke),
Digital Research/Novell and others.

But the damages were too small to even slow a giant such as MS down.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gareth France]

Thanks. I've seen what I'd like but it's in PC world. I really don't 
think I can make a purchase if it is effectively an endorsement of 
Windows 8! I'm sure there must be another way.


On 04/11/14 15:39, Liam Proven wrote:

On 3 November 2014 13:57, Gareth France  wrote:

I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all go
out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the message to
manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the cycle
continues.

I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a
machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was
wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know
Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend about
£500.



It might take some negotiation, but I know that these guys are capable of it:
http://www.wessexcomputers.com/

Ask for Wayne if they are balky, and tell him I sent you.

I know they can do it because they are the hardware arm behind this:
http://www.simplicitycomputers.co.uk/

... And those machines are shipped with Mint or Ubuntu GNOME.

This is a general offer, by the way. I am, or rather used to be,
involved with Simplicity and have worked in Wessex's offices many
time. But there is no kickback or anything to me in this deal!



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Liam Proven]

On 3 November 2014 13:57, Gareth France  wrote:
> I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all go
> out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the message to
> manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the cycle
> continues.
>
> I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a
> machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was
> wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know
> Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend about
> £500.


It might take some negotiation, but I know that these guys are capable of it:
http://www.wessexcomputers.com/

Ask for Wayne if they are balky, and tell him I sent you.

I know they can do it because they are the hardware arm behind this:
http://www.simplicitycomputers.co.uk/

... And those machines are shipped with Mint or Ubuntu GNOME.

This is a general offer, by the way. I am, or rather used to be,
involved with Simplicity and have worked in Wessex's offices many
time. But there is no kickback or anything to me in this deal!

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[gareth . france]

It's not about having it installed so much as knowing the supplier knows
that is my preference. So that company sounds good.
On Mon, November 3, 2014 1:53 pm, Barry Drake wrote:
> On 03/11/14 13:10, Simon Greenwood wrote:
>
>> pcspecialist.co.uk  give you the option to
>> configure a machine without having Windows installed (and knock the
>> price of the licence off on the config form, as do several other UK
>> custom builders.
>
> Cougar Extreme is the only one I've found that will support Linux. They
> don't normally supplu Linux Pre-installed but they will supply a computer
> that they know will work OK.  I think with a bit of negotiation, they
> might be persuaded to install a Linux system at a cost.
>
> Regards,Barry.
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Barry Drake]

On 03/11/14 13:10, Simon Greenwood wrote:
pcspecialist.co.uk  give you the option to 
configure a machine without having Windows installed (and knock the 
price of the licence off on the config form, as do several other UK 
custom builders.


Cougar Extreme is the only one I've found that will support Linux. They 
don't normally supplu Linux Pre-installed but they will supply a 
computer that they know will work OK.  I think with a bit of 
negotiation, they might be persuaded to install a Linux system at a cost.


Regards,Barry.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Simon Greenwood]

pcspecialist.co.uk give you the option to configure a machine without
having Windows installed (and knock the price of the licence off on the
config form, as do several other UK custom builders.

s/

On 3 November 2014 12:57, Gareth France 
wrote:

> I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all go
> out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the message to
> manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the cycle
> continues.
>
> I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a
> machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was
> wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know
> Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend about
> £500.
>
> Thanks
>
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>



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[Gareth France]

That looks great, however the message here would be no operating system, 
not quite so strong as saying I want linux. Shame they don't offer it as 
an option.



On 03/11/14 13:04, George DiceGeorge wrote:

Novatech, Portsmouth UK
http://www.novatech.co.uk

I bought this machine there.
[george]


-Original Message- From: Gareth France
Sent: Monday, 03 November, 2014 12:57
To: UK Ubuntu Talk
Subject: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all
go out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the
message to manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the
cycle continues.

I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a
machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was
wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know
Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend
about £500.

Thanks



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

[George DiceGeorge]

Novatech, Portsmouth UK
http://www.novatech.co.uk

I bought this machine there.
[george]


-Original Message- 
From: Gareth France

Sent: Monday, 03 November, 2014 12:57
To: UK Ubuntu Talk
Subject: [ubuntu-uk] Choice of laptop

I firmly believe part of the problem with Linux adoption is that we all
go out, buy Windows machines and then wipe them. This sends out the
message to manufacturers that we want Windows on our machines and so the
cycle continues.

I'm looking to purchase a laptop shortly and would much prefer to buy a
machine with Linux pre-installed but of course choice is limited. I was
wondering what budget machines are available and recommended. Yes I know
Dell will sell me one for a sqillion pounds but I'm looking to spend
about £500.

Thanks

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Mac]

Matt Jones wrote:
> Thats the disadvantage of a website, you can't haggle with it. Generally the 
> best deals are to be had when adding upgrades, as this is where the margin 
> is. 
> The base spec ones are in most cases loss leaders, this is why Dell heavily 
> pushes upgrades as well as warranty packages.

Thank goodness I went for the absolute basic spec:  my wife was 
certainly pleased with the low price!  ;-)

Mac






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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Matt Jones]

Mac wrote:

  LeeGroups wrote:
  
  
Argh! I just ordered a Vostro for my dad from Dells website...
Clicked the confirm order button, then switched back to Thunderbird and 
read these mails...
Don't you just hate it when that happens...

  
  
Snap!  I'd just ordered an Inspiron 1525 with Gutsy (for my wife).  Rats!!!

Mac






  

Thats the disadvantage of a website, you can't haggle with it.
Generally the best deals are to be had when adding upgrades, as this is
where the margin is. The base spec ones are in most cases loss leaders,
this is why Dell heavily pushes upgrades as well as warranty packages.

Mj



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Mac]

LeeGroups wrote:
> Argh! I just ordered a Vostro for my dad from Dells website...
> Clicked the confirm order button, then switched back to Thunderbird and 
> read these mails...
> Don't you just hate it when that happens...

Snap!  I'd just ordered an Inspiron 1525 with Gutsy (for my wife).  Rats!!!

Mac






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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[LeeGroups]

Kris Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:25 PM, norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>>> Ring dell up to order it, you can usually wangle a bit off, although
>>> this has been for business ones.
>>>
>>>   
>> Noted with thanks.
>>
>> Norman
>> 
>
> Indeed, I got my 6400 upgraded to a nice spec for very little more,
> they have some good deals when you ring them.
>
> I've also had a top-end Vostro off them for free when I bought a server..
Argh! I just ordered a Vostro for my dad from Dells website...
Clicked the confirm order button, then switched back to Thunderbird and 
read these mails...
Don't you just hate it when that happens...


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Kris Douglas]

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:25 PM, norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Ring dell up to order it, you can usually wangle a bit off, although
>> this has been for business ones.
>>
>
> Noted with thanks.
>
> Norman

Indeed, I got my 6400 upgraded to a nice spec for very little more,
they have some good deals when you ring them.

I've also had a top-end Vostro off them for free when I bought a server..


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[norman]

  
> Ring dell up to order it, you can usually wangle a bit off, although 
> this has been for business ones.
> 

Noted with thanks.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Matt Jones]

norman wrote:
> Thanks folks for your comments which I found of help. I am swayed
> towards the Inspiron 1525 because it is supporting Ubuntu.
>
> Norman
>
>
>   
Ring dell up to order it, you can usually wangle a bit off, although 
this has been for business ones.

Mj

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[norman]

Thanks folks for your comments which I found of help. I am swayed
towards the Inspiron 1525 because it is supporting Ubuntu.

Norman


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Andrew Oakley]

norman wrote:
> router. I am wondering whether the Inspiron 1525 would be a suitable
> machine to get and would welcome helpful comment, please.

Yes. I have a Dell Inspiron 1520 and am delighted with it. It runs 
Ubuntu flawlessly and the recent improvements (funded by Dell & Intel) 
for the Intel graphics chipset in Hardy means that even the cheap 
i965/X3100 based laptops can run Compiz, including full screen video, 
without problems.

The keyboard layout is very sensible (separate keys for page up/down, 
home & end, unlike come other laptops), the WiFi functions well and 
reliably, and the optional Bluetooth module Just Works.

I paid extra for 2GB RAM instead 1GB since I occasionally dual-boot into 
Vista. To be honest even with a dozen applications open, including 
graphics editing, Ubuntu Hardy rarely uses more than 700MB, so if you 
don't intend to dual-boot, and you need to keep costs down, 1GB will do. 
The dual-core processor does help performance a great deal, though, and 
I would really miss that if I didn't have it.

Another extra I got was the extended life battery (9 cell instead of 6 
cell). With bluetooth and WiFi turned off, and the screen brightness 
reduced to half-way, this provides around 5 hours of use. With WiFi or 
Bluetooth turned on (but not both), it provides around 4 hours 30 mins. 
I expect the standard 6-cell battery would provide 2-3 hours. Hibernate 
and standby modes Just Work.

The only niggling issue I had was if I set the machine to blank screen 
instead of standby when the lid is closed. Annoyingly, if I then 
connected an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, the LCD backlight 
would come back on, even though the lid was closed (an overheating 
risk). I solved this with a custom /etc/acpi/local/lid.sh.pre script:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/41994/comments/21

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Kris Douglas]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Matt Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> norman wrote:
>> In the fairly near future I expect to have a hip replacement which will
>> mean that I will not be able to sit at my desktop computer for several
>> weeks. So, I am thinking of getting a laptop computer that I can use
>> anywhere around the house until I am allowed to sit on the chair I
>> normally use.
>>
>>  My main requirements will be access to the internet, email and news and
>> some photographic work and, of course, a means of contacting my wireless
>> router. I am wondering whether the Inspiron 1525 would be a suitable
>> machine to get and would welcome helpful comment, please.
>>
>> Norman
>>
>>
>>
> The inspiron is quite a nice machine, the newer ones are much sturdier
> than the previous ones. The vostro business ones are quite nice too,
> very purposeful.

I agree, the Vostro's and the Inspirons are top machines.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] choice of laptop

[Matt Jones]

norman wrote:
> In the fairly near future I expect to have a hip replacement which will
> mean that I will not be able to sit at my desktop computer for several
> weeks. So, I am thinking of getting a laptop computer that I can use
> anywhere around the house until I am allowed to sit on the chair I
> normally use.
>
>  My main requirements will be access to the internet, email and news and
> some photographic work and, of course, a means of contacting my wireless
> router. I am wondering whether the Inspiron 1525 would be a suitable
> machine to get and would welcome helpful comment, please.
>
> Norman
>
>
>   
The inspiron is quite a nice machine, the newer ones are much sturdier 
than the previous ones. The vostro business ones are quite nice too, 
very purposeful.



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