Re: [UC] More Important Poll
I vote NO NO NO. It's a conversation among a select group that doesn't go anywhere and proves nothing. Around and around in circles. People talking just to hear themselves talk. Take it off line at this point. That's my two cents and my vote. M. M. Harvey You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, the vet school needed more space, and this solution was very creative. Penn bought the former gas station in the middle of the street, figured out how to reconfigure the street, and traded the gas station land for land which was part of Baltimore Ave. I think this is about the best thing Penn has done since I've been paying attention! it would seem that a uchs board member can applaud penn's expansion and encroachment so long as it's for a good and worthy cause. FORMER board member. Ray, are you saying that UCHS should have tried to save a GAS STATION and a TRAFFIC ISLAND? nah, I'm just trying to reconcile apparent contradictions and ironies... like how a former uchs board member can applaud penn's encroachment while another uchs board member claims that historic districting stems penn's encroachment. or how penn's encroachment is destroying the historic convention hall and commercial museum while uchs is mum about it. or how you're applauding the vet school's encroachment while the vet school's mark stuart is prez of uchs. . laserbeam® [aka ray] (btw http://uchs.net/WhosWho/uchswhoswho.html needs to be updated, no? you're still listed there as being on the uchs board of governors.) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] More Important Poll
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a conversation among a select group but an historic district will affect EVERYONE who lives here, no? . laserbeam® [aka ray] You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] NOT about HD - ISO cleaning service
Title: NOT about HD - ISO cleaning service I need a cleaning service for a one time job to clean out our new house before the movers arrive with all our stuff. I am allergic to cats and the previous owner had 3 and Im sure shes never cleaned the walls and ceiling where all the cat dander is just waiting for me. Can anyone recommend a service that could come in and clean and wipe down everything? Thanks. Naomi White Dog Cafe 3420 Sansom St, Philadelphia, PA 19104 http://www.whitedog.com (215) 386-9224 x105 The Black Cat Gift Shop 3426 Sansom St, Philadelphia, PA 19104 http://www.blackcatshop.com
[UC] UCHS and conspiracy theories
In a message dated 12/30/04 1:08:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: nah, I'm just trying to reconcile apparent contradictions and ironies... like how a former uchs board member can applaud penn's encroachment while another uchs board member claims that historic districting stems penn's encroachment. or how penn's encroachment is destroying the historic convention hall and commercial museum while uchs is mum about it. or how you're applauding the vet school's encroachment while the vet school's mark stuart is prez of uchs. . laserbeam® [aka ray] Ray, are you saying that all UCHS board members and former board members should think alike? How can you expect this, given that you are a former UCHS board member, and you clearly feel entitled to a different opinion? Penn's "encroachment" into West Philadelphia in the 1960s, when entire blocks were razed and the land was incorporated into the campus, was one of the reasons UCHS was founded. However, Penn's use of a small portion of Baltimore Ave., trading it for a former gas station lot in the middle of the road, is not something which would concern one who wishes to preserve historic properties. Maybe those who are concerned about traffic patterns or bicycle lanes or pedestrian access would want to weigh in, but not UCHS. You keep trying to tie unrelated things together and suggest some conspiracy about Mr. Stuart. You are "having trouble reconciling" these things because there's no tie-in - and you know that; you're just spinning everybody's wheels. (By the way, yes, I was in favor of the Vet School's expansion, and no, I have never even met Mark Stuart.) Mr. Farrell, as far as whether or not UCHS "should" take a stand on Convention Hall, I believe that Ray Rorke, Andy Diller, Al Krigman, Brian Siano (Brian, I've included you here as you requested), Paul Uyehara, Monique Harvey - and even you! - have all demonstrated the tendency of certain members of this community to attack preservation issues and UCHS no matter what the organization does or doesn't do. So, as you say, you're probably better off going it alone in your preservation battle. Otherwise, they're likely to start attacking you. (My own opinion, not speaking on behalf of UCHS or anyone else, but spoken with frustration about the disingenuous nature and vehemence of some of the attacks.) Happy New Year, everybody! Melani Lamond
Re: [UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions
I fail to see a contradiction in any of your examples. Irony is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. - Original Message - From: L a s e r B e a m ® [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, the vet school needed more space, and this solution was very creative. Penn bought the former gas station in the middle of the street, figured out how to reconfigure the street, and traded the gas station land for land which was part of Baltimore Ave. I think this is about the best thing Penn has done since I've been paying attention! it would seem that a uchs board member can applaud penn's expansion and encroachment so long as it's for a good and worthy cause. FORMER board member. Ray, are you saying that UCHS should have tried to save a GAS STATION and a TRAFFIC ISLAND? nah, I'm just trying to reconcile apparent contradictions and ironies... like how a former uchs board member can applaud penn's encroachment while another uchs board member claims that historic districting stems penn's encroachment. or how penn's encroachment is destroying the historic convention hall and commercial museum while uchs is mum about it. or how you're applauding the vet school's encroachment while the vet school's mark stuart is prez of uchs. . laserbeam® [aka ray] (btw http://uchs.net/WhosWho/uchswhoswho.html needs to be updated, no? you're still listed there as being on the uchs board of governors.) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions: a review
Intrigued by all the commentary, I went out last evening to view the buildings in question, taking with me an authentic history-loving tourist. My brother,a scholar of Horace, Spenser and Emerson as well as alifelong, obsessive Victorian rehabber, was in town for the MLA Convention. The last time hewas herehe stayed at the high-Vic bed breakfast on Chester Ave. and droppedhis bucks at the Renaissance drawing exhibit at the Art Museum, and he's been keeping Architectural Antiques afloat down on 2nd Street for decades. So he's the sort of person whose judgementshould matter toPhiladelphia-as-trove-of-period-treasures boosters. We brought along an honors student of his for the ride. The two buildings in question areutterly different. There is no question of their forming an architectural unity;they consist oftwo different eras and styles fastened together with duct tape, so to speak,hemmed inbya modernistic hospital complex, a dashing Italianate museum and a ratty old stadium, all ungepatchke. Neither building is a trailblazer architecturally and neither style is rare. But the old CommercialMuseum is quite a pretty piece of fin de siècle Classical Revival style. We rated it a B+. It would be nice to see it recycled for yet another use. One should note, however, that routine Classical designs are not intrinsically significant since they are, by definition, later imitations of an earlier style. If you ever feelthere aren'tenough faux Parthenons around, after all, nothing stops you from commissioning yet another one! Convention Hall -- call it a B-. It looks nice enough, is well balanced and has some pleasing Art Deco trim. But it is not memorable. It is a costly, workmanlike public building that was designed for transient users and transitory experiences. Translation: it's a convention hall. There's a lot better Art Deco arond town, like the old U.S. Court House (now a post offce) at 9th Market. It's not in the same league with the current Convention Center, either historically or esthetically. If it were torn down, our cityscape would suffer small loss. There is a common confusion in some quarters that Old = Lovely. In fact, though, many old books and many old buildings are mediocre, just like many modern cultural artifacts. While they still merit study by specialists, there is no reason to insist that the man on the street be forced to look at either. True "lovers of history" are those who learn how toselect and treasure the best from the past while letting the rest go. So much for the esthetics. As for the supposed historical importance of these buildings, I fear somefolks are confusing the frame with the painting. A full museum is where important things are kept; an empty museum is empty of their importance. A former convention hall in whicha president once stood to give a speech is no more important to future generations than aformer Gettystation where Nobel Prize winners used to gas up. The likelihood that out-of-town tourists will ever flock to Philadelphia to gawk at these two old buildings is zero. Plus, they're in a hospital district these days. Hospitals are also a draw for travelers and they too matter to this region's future.Now, from personal experience, I can state that period architecture is not what we're looking for when we choose our cancer center. We're hoping for the latest thing, in fact, on the inside. I have to say that I agree with both the UCHS and the University of Pennsylvania here. I think there are other buildings more deserving of preservation, and better uses for this real estate than preservation. I wish only well to the Committee to Save Convention Hall, provided they rely on their dime instead of mine. And it's important to have watchdog groups like these. But it's important to note what watchdogs are and are not. We have a watchdog at home. She barks when there are strangers or intruders, and that's good. But she also barks when there are letter carriers, slammed car doors and long-awaited visitors. Most of the time, in other words, she's wrong. Someoneelse must decide whether toopen the door. For that same reason, we should never let historical watchdogs take over the role of deciding which parts of history need preserving. That's the job and the right of ordinary citizens. -- Tony West
Re: [UC] UCHS and conspiracy theories
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Farrell, as far as whether or not UCHS should take a stand on Convention Hall, I believe that Ray Rorke, Andy Diller, Al Krigman, Brian Siano (Brian, I've included you here as you requested), Paul Uyehara, Monique Harvey - and even you! - have all demonstrated the tendency of certain members of this community to attack preservation issues and UCHS no matter what the organization does or doesn't do. So, as you say, you're probably better off going it alone in your preservation battle. Otherwise, they're likely to start attacking you. (My own opinion, not speaking on behalf of UCHS or anyone else, but spoken with frustration about the disingenuous nature and vehemence of some of the attacks.) For the record, I haven't attacked preservation _issues_. I'm in favor of preservation. It's just that the HD a) is determined by a fundamentally undemocratic process, and b) places a greater burden of preservation upon homeowners rather than businesses and investment-property owners. And I've been attacked by people in the UCHS-- enough to recognize that there are some genuine thugs in that bunch.) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Re: UCHS and conspiracy theories
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: nah, I'm just trying to reconcile apparent contradictions and ironies... like how a former uchs board member can applaud penn's encroachment while another uchs board member claims that historic districting stems penn's encroachment. or how penn's encroachment is destroying the historic convention hall and commercial museum while uchs is mum about it. or how you're applauding the vet school's encroachment while the vet school's mark stuart is prez of uchs. are you saying that all UCHS board members and former board members should think alike? no, I don't think all uchs board members think the same way about history. nor do I think any uchs board member thinks about history or preservation or penn's encroachment the same way from one day to the next, from one building to the next. which is the problem. because uchs, as an organized body, claims (repeatedly, publicly, vociferously -- in newspapers and on websites, to residents and city govt reps) that it's acting on behalf of ucity, that an historic district is what's needed to 'preserve' our 'history' and stem penn's 'encroachment.' meanwhile uchs, as an organized body, remains silent about two historic ucity buildings about to disappear forever in the wake of penn's wrecking ball. and now you're labeling uchs's inconsistencies as conspiracy theories? . laserbeam® [aka ray] You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Civic Center demolition
After reading the pros and cons of this issue, there is only one thing that bothers me about the demolition of the auditorium. Traditionally it has been the place where most high school and college graduations take place. Central and Girls used to use the Academy of Music for this ceremony and may still, but it isn't really large enough to accomodate the family and friends of the graduates. What other auditorium in the city is large enough to perform this function? Marianne Das [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions
Precisely. There are shades of grey to every issue. I don't expect UCHS to go to the wall for every possible encroachment on a historic structure in west Philly. Clearly you know a lot more about that body than I do, but I would expect such a group to pick their battles. The way I read what the University has said about its process in looking at whether the buildings could be preserved, I don't think I'd pick this battle. Others might--I'm not knocking jayfar's efforts, but this issue isn't one that I can get too excited about. OTOH, I'm in favor of a historic district, too. - Original Message - From: L a s e r B e a m ® [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [UC] UCHS and Civic Center demolitions Bill Sanderson wrote: Irony is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. I guess failure to see irony is in the eye of the beholder as well! ;-) . laserbeam® [aka ray] You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
