Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

I don't dispute a word you say.

There is, though, an old saying: "The Supreme Court follows the election 
returns." Indeed, in the year 2000 it actually did decree the election 
returns.


Surely both ZBA members and Court judges follow the election returns 
also. While perhaps they shouldn't, several UC-list posters have 
asserted City officials were responding to political and economic 
pressures every time they delivered a decision that didn't satisfy the 
Campus Inn's foes. Perhaps these critics were right.


If I were advocating on behalf of a campaign against the 40th & Pine 
development, then, I would prepare as good an argument as possible in 
favor of its development somewhere else. It can't hurt and it might help.


Quite recently a Philadelphia Court judge dismissed as illegal a 
decision on the sale of Burholme Park land to Fox Chase Cancer Ctr. 
arrived at by Fairmount Park and City Council, a decision  plainly based 
on politics and economics. So it can be done.


I would not go so far, though, as to bet in advance on its being done. 
In that case, the City was trying to beat a will, which is much harder 
than trying to beat a zoning reg. The hijackers of the Barnes Foundation 
beat the plainest will in America -- but the value of the conquest of 
that bequest has been estimated at $2 billion, so it made sense for the 
City to spend $X million to beat it. Fox Chase wasn't worth that much, 
so less was spent and the case was lost at the initial hearing. Time 
will tell if the City does lose that one in the end.


In the Campus Inn case, City money won't be spent on advocacy but it 
will still be consumed by litigation. Courts cost money and they are 
under tremendous pressure, just like libraries and recreation, to save 
money in FY 2008-09. They'll have a natural tendency toward outcomes 
that are cheaper, and also toward outcomes that yield more revenue. How 
to work this tendency? That's the $64 question.


-- Tony West

If ZBA does any of these things, and it certainly may, it is not 
following the law as set forth explicitly in the Philadelphia Code.
 
Unlike the PCPC, which seems to have no formal guidelines at all and 
is apparently free to ignore its own earlier findings (e.g., "The Plan 
for West Philadelphia" which explicitly puts the southern end of the 
"40th Street Commercial Corridor" at Locust Street), and the 
Historical Commission, which has rather vague guidelines and 
therefore has some room for interpretation and preference, results 
whose basis seems to be in that age-old maxim "/de gustabus non 
disputandum est/" does not apply to zoning decisions. The Philadelphia 
Code is quite explicit about the criteria for granting a variance and 
about the burden of proof being on the applicant. To the extent that 
alleged value to the city, for instance, is factored into ZBA's 
deliberations, that administrative body is acting contrary to rather 
clearly stated law and is opening itself up to embarrassing rebuke in 
court.




Al Krigman




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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Krfapt]

In a message dated 12/28/2008 4:37:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
anthony_w...@earthlink.net writes:

ZBA will undoubtedly  attempt to answer this question in
part by weighing the value of the  project to the local and citywide
economy. It's impossible to keep issues  like these out of ZBA
deliberations ... although they do not govern its  decisions, they are
surely factored in.

Your determination that this  project can easily be shifted somewhere
else may play a role in ZBA's  decision. However, Penn's determination
will also play a role (it is, after  all, closer to the project than you
are). Suppose your determination and  Penn's differ. Once again, it's
unrealistic for you to think ZBA will admit  your testimony on a large
real-estate project while excluding  Penn's.

If ZBA does any of these things, and it certainly may, it is not following  
the law as set forth explicitly in the Philadelphia Code.
 
Unlike the PCPC, which seems to have no formal guidelines at all and is  
apparently free to ignore its own earlier findings (e.g., "The Plan for West  
Philadelphia" which explicitly puts the southern end of the "40th Street  
Commercial Corridor" at Locust Street), and the Historical Commission, which 
has  
rather vague guidelines and therefore has some room for interpretation  and 
preference, results whose basis seems to be in that age-old maxim "de  gustabus 
non 
disputandum est" does not apply to zoning decisions. The  Philadelphia Code is 
quite explicit about the criteria for granting a variance  and about the 
burden of proof being on the applicant. To the extent that alleged  value to 
the 
city, for instance, is factored into ZBA's deliberations, that  administrative 
body is acting contrary to rather clearly stated law and is  opening itself up 
to embarrassing rebuke in court.
 
Councilman Bill Green made an interesting statement with respect to a suit  
being brought by several members of Council (including Mrs Blackwell) to keep  
the mayor from closing branch libraries without Council approval -- in  
contrasting it with a "citizens' suit" to stop the closings. It was reported as 
 in 
the Inquirer as follows:

Yesterday's action follows a lawsuit filed Tuesday by seven city  residents 
and the white-collar municipal union that also seeks to prevent  Nutter from 
closing the libraries without Council permission. That lawsuit  included 
anecdotal accounts of the plaintiffs' library use and described how  they would 
be 
affected if the branches were closed. 
"That's an emotional suit. This is  dispassionate. It's a clear and very 
simple request of the court, which is to  ask the Free Library board and the 
administration to comply with city law,"  Green said, adding that lawyers on 
his 
staff drafted the motion and would  handle the court appearances as well. 

I think the analogy is quite clear and relevant. What's  gone up until now 
has been emotional. Getting to the issue of zoning variances,  the ZBA will 
either "comply with city law" on its own, or face the high  likelihood that a 
court will instruct it to do so. 
Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er,  dialog.

Al Krigman
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

Indeed, Ray. And ZBA will undoubtedly attempt to answer this question in
part by weighing the value of the project to the local and citywide
economy. It's impossible to keep issues like these out of ZBA
deliberations ... although they do not govern its decisions, they are
surely factored in.

Your determination that this project can easily be shifted somewhere
else may play a role in ZBA's decision. However, Penn's determination
will also play a role (it is, after all, closer to the project than you
are). Suppose your determination and Penn's differ. Once again, it's
unrealistic for you to think ZBA will admit your testimony on a large
real-estate project while excluding Penn's.

The notion of a site shift seems like a fruitful line of play, but
simply jumping up at the hearing and saying, "Aw, come on, Penn, you
could build it anywhere!" sounds shaky to me. I think proponents of a
site shift would be well advised to do some of the heavy lifting
themselves on this.

But do it your way, if you think that's going to be more persuasive with
ZBA.

-- Tony West

nice try, tony, but at this hour, the question is not whether a campus 
inn at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper the local economy -- not 
when penn owns so much other property on which to build a campus inn. 
and the question is not whether a zoning change at 40th and pine can 
sustain or hamper the economy -- not when penn owns so much other 
property with the zoning it needs. so you're still advocating for penn 
here, not 'just reporting'.


the question today is whether a developer should change the existing 
zoning at 40th and pine, for a purchase that penn made 5 years ago, at 
the permanent expense of our neighborhood.



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN 





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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Anthony West wrote:


Liz,

Truthfully to portray the chief concern of Philadelphia City government 
as 2009 is ushered in,  is not "advocating." It's just reporting.


The chief concern of City government at this hour, like most other 
jurisdictions across America, is to sustain its local economy. If zoning 
regulation helps to sustain that economy, zoning will do quite well 
without my advocacy. If zoning regulation is perceived by local 
"deciders" to hamper this economy at this hour, then regulation 
enthusiasts face a challenge I recommend they respond to smartly.




nice try, tony, but at this hour, the question is not 
whether a campus inn at 40th and pine can sustain or hamper 
the local economy -- not when penn owns so much other 
property on which to build a campus inn. and the question is 
not whether a zoning change at 40th and pine can sustain or 
hamper the economy -- not when penn owns so much other 
property with the zoning it needs. so you're still 
advocating for penn here, not 'just reporting'.


the question today is whether a developer should change the 
existing zoning at 40th and pine, for a purchase that penn 
made 5 years ago, at the permanent expense of our neighborhood.



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
























































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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

Liz,

Truthfully to portray the chief concern of Philadelphia City government 
as 2009 is ushered in,  is not "advocating." It's just reporting.


The chief concern of City government at this hour, like most other 
jurisdictions across America, is to sustain its local economy. If zoning 
regulation helps to sustain that economy, zoning will do quite well 
without my advocacy. If zoning regulation is perceived by local 
"deciders" to hamper this economy at this hour, then regulation 
enthusiasts face a challenge I recommend they respond to smartly.


Guy has shown just such a sensible response. I can't speak to the nuts 
and bolts of his particular plan for 40th & Pine, but he acknowledges 
the value of continued expansion of  Penn to all Philadelphia. That's 
what critics of the Campus Inn need to do if they wish to be taken 
seriously by the deciders.


UC-list is not a cross-sample of Philadelphia. 99% of Philadelphians 
today don't remember the taking of Spruce Hill to build the Superblock 
in the 1960s, which was University City's "Nakba". Of those few who do 
remember, nobody outside this neighborhood gives a hoot any more. Black 
West Philly as a whole made out like a bandit from all the jobs 
generated by Penn's growth; it has generated two of the last four 
Mayors. Raising the specter of "Demon Penn" of course will foment us 
locals, but it's meaningless at the citywide level.


In 2009, Philadelphia will need Demon Penn more than ever, because Demon 
Penn isn't broke. That doesn't mean Penn's neighbors have to roll over 
and wave their legs. But they should study the macroeconomics of keeping 
a big old Northeastern city alive, because that's where we all live.


-- Tony West

When you miss both my point, and the purpose of Zoning Regulation, by 
a mile, I read your response as "advocating". 

I will continue to "point out" that the Zoning Codes, Historic 
Designation, Building Regulations and Height Restrictions all existed 
BEFORE the purchase.  The Buyer - Owner has the burden of "Due 
Diligence".  The codes are designed to protect neighborhoods from 800# 
gorillas, whether they be Meat Packers, Soap Makers, or Universities.  
They are designed to protect neighborhoods from the arrogance or abuse 
that can follow money or overly aggressive ownership.


> Liz




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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Krfapt]

In a message dated 12/27/2008 12:47:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
campio...@juno.com writes:

I don't  yet have the words to properly express the depth of my 
disappointment and  sense of betrayal that some SHCA Community Leaders are 
willing to cede  
the character of the neighborhood, near the Trolley Portal, while 
guaranteeing  inconvenience and risking catastrophe.
What an elegant bit of damnation by faint praise.
 
Look at the people on the SHCA Board of Directors and think about the  
shameful way the organization's most recent election was held. The "SHCA  
Community 
Leaders" are, by and large, young newcomers who haven't a clue about  the 
sensitivities of the folks who built the neighborhood by investing their  lives 
in 
it while the flight to the suburbs was at its zenith. We certainly need  
youth and new ideas, but not "leadership" from people who don't understand but  
do 
disregard the people they're supposed to be "leading."
 
And, much as I hesitate to say it because it may sound like a rebuke to  
earnest and well-meaning people, many of the more long-standing members of the  
SHCA Board are there because the anointed know they'll either keep silent about 
 
things they don't like, or the deck has been stacked so if they speak up, 
it's  ineffective (witness, for the latter, the impact or lack thereof of the 
two 
 resignations over the decision to take a no-position position on the Campus 
Inn  -- such that newcomer-puppet-president Ed Halligan could get away with 
the  outright lie to the Historical Commission that SHCA was evenly split 
because the  community was evenly split).


Always at  your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog.

Al  Krigman

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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[campio...@juno.com]

 
Tony,
When you miss both my point, and the purpose of Zoning Regulation, by a mile, I 
read your response as "advocating".  
I will continue to "point out" that the Zoning Codes, Historic Designation, 
Building Regulations and Height Restrictions all existed BEFORE the purchase.  
The Buyer - Owner has the burden of "Due Diligence".  The codes are designed to 
protect neighborhoods from 800# gorillas, whether they be Meat Packers, Soap 
Makers, or Universities.  They are designed to protect neighborhoods from the 
arrogance or abuse that can follow money or overly aggressive ownership.  

The system is not intended to dictate business plans, but it is designed to 
prevent bad plans from being imposed upon unwilling neighbors.  Neighborhoods 
CAN "dictate" what can NOT be done.  It seems a shame that SHCA has not had the 
stones to resist "hale-fellows-well-met" or to send a strong message in support 
of existing codes, neighbors and our 'hood.
People who make bad decisions lose money.  Ask anyone who invested with Bernie 
Madoff.  Skipping "Due Diligence" or planning to impose institutional will upon 
human neighbors, despite known restrictions, is a bad plan-decision.  
Institutions using such a business model deserve the losses they might incur.  

People, good, long time neighbors, contributors to our Arts Leagues and 
Children's programs and Gardening initiatives, folks such as the Goldmans and 
O'Donnells and neighbors on Woodland Terrace deserve to keep, undiminished, the 
bundle of rights that existed when they purchased their homes.  "... just 
pointing out."

I can not fathom SHCA's failure to act more assertively.
I don't yet have the words to properly express the depth of my disappointment 
and sense of betrayal that some SHCA Community Leaders are willing to cede the 
character of the neighborhood, near the Trolley Portal, while guaranteeing 
inconvenience and risking catastrophe.
I am fairly certain the urgency in this matter is not the possible loss to a 
huge organization that oft-times appears only nominally nonprofit, but the 
promised gain for some profiteers and their attendant lackeys.
I don't have the head for the economics of greed.
I don't want to fight this battle.  
My instincts are to look away, and pray, as if it is two cars skidding toward 
each other on ice, but a wreck that might still be avoided.
But there is too much at stake. 
If this precedent succeeds, where will the next multi-story be planted?
My guess is the SE corner of 43rd and Baltimore.
I am not ready for our park to be in the shadow of rent-seeking development.


I believe there are neighbors, still on the fence, who are willing to imagine 
additional undisclosed or ill considered consequences of inserting a 
super-sized monolith on a lot with no setbacks.  And I hope they will add their 
voices and insights to the discussion.

Sincerely,
Liz



-- Anthony West  wrote:

Liz,

If Penn owns and retains the real estate, no matter what is built, then 
Penn is the developer to some degree. So it's ultimately Penn's call if 
any particular proposal would work or not. The world can attempt to 
persuade Penn to favor one business plan over another, but it can't 
dictate that business plan until it ponies up the monies that will 
relieve Penn of some of the burden of investing.

Neighbors in the immediate environs of this proposal have every right to 
defend their existing zoning, regardless of whether it helps or hurts 
Philadelphia as a whole. If they can force Penn to abandon Plan A and 
move to Plan B, more power to them.

When the City is wallowing in new growth and new revenue, it is easy for 
the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation. When decay 
is outpacing construction and revenue is declining, it is hard for the 
City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation, in that rare 
case where someone actually wants to risk a big new business in any 
Philadelphia neighborhood.

If it were up to me, I'd choose neighborhood preservation because I'm 
already comfortable here with things much as they are. But I don't cut 
City checks, and those who do may have a different take on this case 
than I have.

Once again, not advocating ... just pointing out.

If you want libraries, you want revenues. If you want revenues, you want 
growth.

-- Tony West

> Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans.
>
> Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a 
> consideration for the developers.
>
> We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing 
> zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious 
> developers.
>
> If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ 
> units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, 
> Dormitory or Condo.  An 11 story building is a dramatic and 
> permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb.  The 
> neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of constru

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

Liz,

If Penn owns and retains the real estate, no matter what is built, then 
Penn is the developer to some degree. So it's ultimately Penn's call if 
any particular proposal would work or not. The world can attempt to 
persuade Penn to favor one business plan over another, but it can't 
dictate that business plan until it ponies up the monies that will 
relieve Penn of some of the burden of investing.


Neighbors in the immediate environs of this proposal have every right to 
defend their existing zoning, regardless of whether it helps or hurts 
Philadelphia as a whole. If they can force Penn to abandon Plan A and 
move to Plan B, more power to them.


When the City is wallowing in new growth and new revenue, it is easy for 
the City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation. When decay 
is outpacing construction and revenue is declining, it is hard for the 
City to assign top priority to neighborhood preservation, in that rare 
case where someone actually wants to risk a big new business in any 
Philadelphia neighborhood.


If it were up to me, I'd choose neighborhood preservation because I'm 
already comfortable here with things much as they are. But I don't cut 
City checks, and those who do may have a different take on this case 
than I have.


Once again, not advocating ... just pointing out.

If you want libraries, you want revenues. If you want revenues, you want 
growth.


-- Tony West


Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans.

Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a 
consideration for the developers.


We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing 
zoning, building codes and height limitations against rapacious 
developers.


If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ 
units that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, 
Dormitory or Condo.  An 11 story building is a dramatic and 
permanent anomaly within our Victorian Street Car Suburb.  The 
neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of construction and 
the ultimate use.  The precedent could than be used to attempt hi-rise 
construction on the se corner of 43rd & Baltimore, or any other lot, 
existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood.


Liz




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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Glenn moyer]

"In fact, I can give you a very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U Penn Hospital area.  The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed in several incarnations."
Guy, thanks for clearing this up.  Most people understand that the towering beast has nothing to do with the hospitals. But  I wasn't sure what prompted the closure of that hotel.  The bridge across 34th St meant that guests could access Chop and Hup without going outside.  (Hospital families generally get $99 rooms near the airport.)
In addition to the obvious target markets for CI, the apartment dimensions of extended stay hotels (which Lauren mentions) is a big clue to me.  Many years, the U. does not have enough on campus housing for incoming students.  They end up renting spaces in other places.  So it's Penn parents, visiting academicians, and a spillover destination for overbooked years that looks like the target market-  Not hospital families
"You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this list-serv especially on Christmas Eve."
Here, I completely disagree.  The listserv is one of the few mechanisms for community members to quickly and thoroughly discuss important community crises.  Compare our grassroots communication options to the incredible never ending power of the university's spin machine.  I see the list as a tremendously important place for us to share reports, ideas, and the truth.
Consider the pattern:  Like the BID and the Clark Park redesign, both times the U. made a "slam dunk" push for this Campus Inn have been during the holiday season.  It seems all potentially unpopular projects from the university are destined to be pushed near to Christmas.  (Intersting that the library cuts were also slam dunked during the season)
It's a shame that concerned active citizens are always on call when powerful entities do the slam dunk during the holidays.  I think of the activism of our neighbors, as one of the more inspiring and satisfying presents of all!
Happy holidays,
Glenn
 
-Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 24, 2008 4:47 AM To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Tony,You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this list-serv especially on Christmas Eve.I'll try to make my response short:  If your concern for the 40th and Pine site is which of the two alternatives (extended stay hotel vs 10,000 sq' commercial development) provides the best alternatives in the event the project fails then I would suggest this analysis--  a 90,000 sq' building on a site with 4 parking spaces, a pool, no side yards or rear yards and built as a 110 room extended stay hotel has little or no viable alternative use (other than as student housing).In the alternative, a 10,000 sq' re-do of the mansion where there is first floor space requiring some reasonable retail rent and the 5,000 sq' upstairs requiring some reasonable office/classroom rent has thousands of alternate uses and users especially with the 25 car parking it would provide.  I am not sure why you don't believe that a small commercial venture is viable on 40th and Pine.  It might be harder to find failed commercial ventures in UC than it is to find successful ones even in this economic market.  In fact, I can give you a very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U Penn Hospital area.  The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed in several incarnations.-Original Message-From: Anthony West To: UnivCity listserv Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 7:55 pmSubject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn
You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.  One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan based on a "high end restaurant" is even shakier than a plan based on an "extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.  The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.  Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th & Pine property are free to 

RE: [UC] Campus Inn

[KAREN ALLEN]

Liz, you make an excellent point about Penn overpaying for the land. Penn 
apologist(s) claim that since Penn paid so much for it, they have no other 
choice but to seek a use that makes "economic sense", and Penn alone gets to 
say what "economic sense" is.  As if someone was holding a gun to their heads 
and forcing them to pay $1.8 million. And as if they don't operate top flight 
law and business schools that TEACH students how to do due diligence and market 
analysis. Give me a bleeping break!
 
Penn can eliminate all competition by paying what seems like ridiculous prices 
for a property, then claim they have no other choice but to build eleven story 
buildings to recover the cost. The fact is that Penn is the ultimate deep 
pocket, which explains why opportunists like the guy who got the 50-condo deal 
from Penn crawled out of the woodwork to support their project. And Penn has 
all of the legal and business expertise they will ever need at their 
fingertips. So if Penn or anyone else tries to equate Penn's position with the 
limitations faced by a  private individual buyer, understand that your 
intellegence is being insulted.   



From: campio...@juno.comdate: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:34:50 +To: 
univc...@list.purple.comsubject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn
Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans.
Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the 
developers. 
We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, 
building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers.
If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units 
that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo.  
An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian 
Street Car Suburb.  The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of 
construction and the ultimate use.  The precedent could than be used to attempt 
hi-rise construction on the se corner of 43rd & Baltimore, or any other lot, 
existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood. 
If a Restaurant, within a conforming structure fails, the adaptive uses might 
be less onerous.
Glenn reminds us that Esau Sanchez spoke of plans that were rejected and hopes 
by Academic departments that were not funded.  Like Glenn, I'd like to see the 
proposals.
PENN can eliminate competition, by overpaying.  But PENN should not be rewarded 
for eliminating competition or organic, growth.  The Developers seek radical 
variances to codes which are designed to protect neighbors.  Neighbors should 
not have to subsidize the "hardships" of poor, institutional choices.
If PENN hadn't overpaid, another family, like the O'Donnells of 4100, might 
have settled in already.  
The current delays are because the Developers wants what they want.  This does 
not include playing within the codes and regulations that were in place, when 
they bought.  Pretending they were not aware of codes or their obligation of 
"Due Diligence" is little more than a flipping of the bird at us neighbors.
Resistance is righteous.  Encroachment is an unwanted and unwarranted act of 
aggression.  Don't let's confuse who is profit seeking at the expense of whom.
 
Merry Christmas and all the best in 2009 and beyond to all good neighbors!
Liz
-- Anthony West  wrote:You have many interesting 
ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve deeper thought than a snap 
response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the people in the business are 
giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.One caution ordinary readers should 
note is that a long-term business plan based on a "high end restaurant" is even 
shakier than a plan based on an "extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept 
has been justly criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk 
of downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus 
Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms where students 
might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't want no students 
sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.The entertainment industry, I must warn 
readers, is even more volatile than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, 
and flattering for West Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such 
monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new 
high-end entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm 
up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.Long-range planners 
for a sustainable 40th & Pine property are free to dazzle the public with 
visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly settle for another 
FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. Still beats a stop & go. 
There will be no intrinsic protection, however, against that site'

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Krfapt]

In a message dated 12/24/2008 12:36:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
campio...@juno.com writes:

The  current delays are because the Developers wants what they  want. 
Unwillingness to compromise has been the hallmark of every highly  
contentious issue in this neighborhood for the past decade. Think about:
*   the Alexander School catchment area 
*   The historic district nomination 
*   The Neighborhood Improvement District 
*   The Campus Inn
The people on the various sides shift a bit in the above, for various  
reasons, but the pattern is the same. Considering those "reasons," while I  
disagreed with the people on the opposite side from me in the first three of 
the  
above, I had to admit that their points were well taken and that they probably  
didn't fully fathom the collateral damage that would be done along with the  
benefits that would be derived. The Campus Inn is truly different. The project  
is pure greed on the parts of the developers and their Sputniks, and they  
realize full well the damage that they will impose on everyone else in their  
quest for "economic rents." Apparently, people like Lussenhop (who is looking 
to  
strike it rich with no money down and doesn't mind prostituting himself to do  
it) haven't learned anything from the attitude of the people who ran Lehman  
Brothers or the other investment banks.  

Always at  your service & ready for a dialog,

Al Krigman -- 36-year local  resident, beloved housing provider, and 
recipient of the 2008 Ignatz Nobil  prize for ratiocination

**One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[lomb21]

Tony,

You are probably right that this discussion is too extensive for this 
list-serv especially on Christmas Eve.

I'll try to make my response short:? If your concern for the 40th and Pine site 
is which of the two alternatives (extended stay hotel vs 10,000 sq' commercial 
development) provides the best alternatives in the event the project fails then 
I would suggest this analysis--? a 90,000 sq' building on a site with 4 parking 
spaces, a pool, no side yards or rear yards and built as a 110 room extended 
stay hotel has little or no viable alternative use (other than as student 
housing).

In the alternative, a 10,000 sq' re-do of the mansion where there is first 
floor space requiring some reasonable retail rent and the 5,000 sq' upstairs 
requiring some reasonable office/classroom rent has thousands of alternate uses 
and users especially with the 25 car parking it would provide.? I am not sure 
why you don't believe that a small commercial venture is viable on 40th and 
Pine.? It might be harder to find failed commercial ventures in UC than it is 
to find successful ones even in this economic market.? 

In fact, I can give you?a very real example of a failed hotel in the U Penn/ U 
Penn Hospital area.? The old Hilton across the street from the hospital failed 
in several incarnations.



-Original Message-
From: Anthony West 
To: UnivCity listserv 
Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn


You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that deserve 
deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. I'm sure the 
people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or otherwise.?
?
One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business plan 
based on a "high end restaurant" is even shakier than a plan based on an 
"extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept has been justly criticized for 
that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of downmarket users behind an 
initial promise of an upmarket user. If Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, 
it could be converted to rooms where students might sleep ... and there goes 
the neighborhood. We don't want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? 
Ew.?
?
The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile than the 
travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West Philadelphia, 
that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for (gasp!) 40th St. 
nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end entertainment district will 
coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm up for that. But I wouldn't bet the 
mortgage on it today.?
?
Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th & Pine property are free to dazzle 
the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly settle for 
another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. Still beats a stop 
& go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, against that site's 
becoming a stop & go in the future.?
?
There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above 
worries me. I could live with walking past any of the above outcomes. For me, 
an upscale restaurant beats a dorm, but an extended-stay hotel beats a stop & 
go. The true challenge for the neighborhood, as it mulls over these options, is 
to figure out how to honestly compare apples with apples.?
?
-- Tony West?
?
> I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments > and 
> Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and > either 
> classroom or community space on the second and third floor. >?
> Guy?
?
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[campio...@juno.com]

Guy has provided some thoughtful writing on the 40th Street Hotel plans.
Tony, I think the profits / volatility argument is more a consideration for the 
developers. 
We neighbors have every right to continue to defend our existing zoning, 
building codes and height limitations against rapacious developers.
If the Hotel fails the neighborhood is stuck with a monolith and 100+ units 
that can be easily converted to use as a Homeless Shelter, Dormitory or Condo.  
An 11 story building is a dramatic and permanent anomaly within our Victorian 
Street Car Suburb.  The neighborhood will bear the risks and annoyances of 
construction and the ultimate use.  The precedent could than be used to attempt 
hi-rise construction on the se corner of 43rd & Baltimore, or any other lot, 
existing or to be razed, in our neighborhood. 
If a Restaurant, within a conforming structure fails, the adaptive uses might 
be less onerous.
Glenn reminds us that Esau Sanchez spoke of plans that were rejected and hopes 
by Academic departments that were not funded.  Like Glenn, I'd like to see the 
proposals.
PENN can eliminate competition, by overpaying.  But PENN should not be rewarded 
for eliminating competition or organic, growth.  The Developers seek radical 
variances to codes which are designed to protect neighbors.  Neighbors should 
not have to subsidize the "hardships" of poor, institutional choices.
If PENN hadn't overpaid, another family, like the O'Donnells of 4100, might 
have settled in already.  
The current delays are because the Developers wants what they want.  This does 
not include playing within the codes and regulations that were in place, when 
they bought.  Pretending they were not aware of codes or their obligation of 
"Due Diligence" is little more than a flipping of the bird at us neighbors.
Resistance is righteous.  Encroachment is an unwanted and unwarranted act of 
aggression.  Don't let's confuse who is profit seeking at the expense of whom.
 
Merry Christmas and all the best in 2009 and beyond to all good neighbors!
Liz

-- Anthony West  wrote:
You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that 
deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. 
I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or 
otherwise.

One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business 
plan based on a "high end restaurant" is even shakier than a plan based 
on an "extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept has been justly 
criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of 
downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If 
Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms 
where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't 
want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.

The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile 
than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West 
Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for 
(gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end 
entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm 
up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.

Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th & Pine property are free to 
dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly 
settle for another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. 
Still beats a stop & go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, 
against that site's becoming a stop & go in the future.

There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above 
worries me. I could live with walking past any of the above outcomes. 
For me, an upscale restaurant beats a dorm, but an extended-stay hotel 
beats a stop & go. The true challenge for the neighborhood, as it mulls 
over these options, is to figure out how to honestly compare apples with 
apples.

-- Tony West

> I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments 
> and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and 
> either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. 
>
> Guy




Elizabeth Campion
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215-790-5653 Desk & Voicemail
215-880-2930 Cell & Emergency
215-546-9781 Shared office Fax

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home.in.ph...@juno.com for Rental questions
   
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

You have many interesting ideas about 40th St. development, Guy, that 
deserve deeper thought than a snap response on an unmoderated listserve. 
I'm sure the people in the business are giving it thought, amicably or 
otherwise.


One caution ordinary readers should note is that a long-term business 
plan based on a "high end restaurant" is even shakier than a plan based 
on an "extended stay hotel". The Campus Inn concept has been justly 
criticized for that very weakness: of hiding the longterm risk of 
downmarket users behind an initial promise of an upmarket user. If 
Campus Inn goes belly up, foes argue, it could be converted to rooms 
where students might sleep ... and there goes the neighborhood. We don't 
want no students sleeping in Spruce Hill, do we now? Ew.


The entertainment industry, I must warn readers, is even more volatile 
than the travel industry. It's great for Penn, and flattering for West 
Philadelphia, that Distrito is pitching in such monstrous rents for 
(gasp!) 40th St. nightspot square footage. Maybe a new high-end 
entertainment district will coalesce around 40th St. someday soon. I'm 
up for that. But I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it today.


Long-range planners for a sustainable 40th & Pine property are free to 
dazzle the public with visions of another Distrito ... but should gladly 
settle for another FuddRuckers, if that's what washes up on the beach. 
Still beats a stop & go. There will be no intrinsic protection, however, 
against that site's becoming a stop & go in the future.


There's nothing wrong with either risk, in my opinion. None of the above 
worries me. I could live with walking past any of the above outcomes. 
For me, an upscale restaurant beats a dorm, but an extended-stay hotel 
beats a stop & go. The true challenge for the neighborhood, as it mulls 
over these options, is to figure out how to honestly compare apples with 
apples.


-- Tony West

I dream that the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments 
and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and 
either classroom or community space on the second and third floor. 


Guy




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RE: [UC] Campus Inn

[KAREN ALLEN]

It sounds like you're suggesting that Penn would rather risk failure at 40th 
Street than at 30th Street. 



To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net; univc...@list.purple.comsubject: Re: [UC] 
Campus InnDate: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:41:28 -0500From: lom...@aol.com
 
RE: "It would also be true that a 10,000 sq' development would be substantially 
less profitable than a 90,000 sq' development  if they both succeed.  I 
hope that this simple math is not the reason that the University is not 
considering locating their extended stay hotel on a more appropriate site"
 

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

KAREN ALLEN wrote:

And if they're going to build a 3 story building in the
3900 block of Spruce, around the corner from 40th and
Pine on a VACANT LOT, why can't they build the Campus Inn
on the vacant lot and renovate the mansion for the other
project???



thank you! I've been wondering the very same thing since 
hearing the news about the 3-story building (a transplant 
patient facility) behind allegro's near 40th and spruce.


apparently, plans for this 3-story patient facility were in 
the works as early as, if not earlier than, february 2006, 
when the lot at 40th and pine was already vacant:


http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/feb06/trnshse.htm

and it's been reported that plans for the campus inn at 40th 
and pine began in spring 07 (after the transplant facility).


in any case, it appears that all this vacant real estate at 
this end of 40th street was going to be developed and funded 
by penn's hospitals -- not by ucd's 40th street corridor 
vision, nor with the intervention of penn praxis. [this 
could explain what had been long noted on this list, how 
neither ucd nor penn praxis have published anything public 
about this hotel...]


but what's unclear is how penn can justify planning and 
building these patient care facilities AWAY from all the new 
patient care facilities that penn was planning and building. 
for example, the perelman center, a state-of-the-art patient 
care facility -- connected by a bridge to the penn tower 
hotel, btw -- opened this fall on the very boulevard where 
all of penn's hospitals are located:


http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/perelman/release-advancing-real-time-medicine.html

> Designed by Perkins Eastman/Rafael Vinoly Architects, a
> Joint Venture, the Perelman Center was built to create a
> comfortable and easy-to-navigate environment for patients
> and their families. The soaring glass atrium creates a
> central welcome space adjacent to café and retail space.
> Exam rooms are a spacious 110 square feet, providing
> ample room for family members and friends. Special
> consultation rooms throughout the facility bring doctors,
> nurses and other medical professionals directly to
> patients and their families, eliminating the need for
> visits to different offices around the medical campus.
>
> Additional family waiting rooms offer a comfortable
> retreat for caregivers during appointments, supporting
> research which found that social interaction helps
> patients with cancer live longer. Among other comforts
> are valet parking that puts patients within steps of
> their clinics, and free wireless internet access
> throughout the facility.

...

> The economic impact of the Perelman Center in the
> Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is expected to be $348
> million, and $212 million in the City of Philadelphia.
> When it is fully operational, the building will create
> more than 400 new jobs within Penn Medicine and support
> 2,772 jobs directly and indirectly throughout
> Pennsylvania.


- - - - -


with all this development of the hosptial complex AT the 
hospital complex, and all this concern about patients and 
families being in close proximity to each other and to their 
doctors, why is a residential area in our neighborhood being 
asked to be rezoned for hospital uses? what is the logic 
behind this vision at this end of 40th street?


and should we neighbors be appealing to penn-the-hospital 
rather than penn-the-academy [with its 17-18 rejected 
proposals for the site]?



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN

























































































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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[lomb21]

I don't want to bore the UC list with price/sq' numbers and rent/sq' numbers, 
but suffice it to say that the rents that the University has asked for and 
received by their retail tenants in 1) the HUB? 2) the Domus project and 3) the 
Radian are close to and exceeding those received in some of the "better" 
sections of the City.? These impressive rents and the success of such 
restaurateurs such as Steven Starr (with Pod, one of his most successful Philly 
spots) and Jose Garces (at the HUB) have inspired several of the other "hot" 
Philly restaurateurs to be chasing locations in UC/West Philly.

There's no written guarantee, of course, and these difficult economic times 
might challenge any of the numbers that I am quoting you, but a 4,000 - 6,000 
sq' first floor restaurant with 25 car parking should be able to generate 
enough rental income to pay the debt-service on the rehab of the entire 10,000 
sq' mansion at 40th and Pine.? If you throw in Historic Tax benefits and 
possible State subsidies and other benefits to the site then it becomes a 
viable development opportunity.? The rental income from any use of the upstairs 
5,000 sq' (whether office rental or auxiliary classroom) would further enhance 
the economic viability of the site.

It would also be true that a 10,000 sq' development would be substantially less 
profitable than a 90,000 sq' development? if they both succeed.? I hope 
that this simple math is not the reason that the University is not considering 
locating their extended stay hotel on a more appropriate site


-Original Message-
From: Anthony West 
To: UnivCity listserv 
Sent: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn


An interesting idea. It ought to be possible to cook up ballpark numbers on 
such a project just by pacing it off and running conventional 
restaurant-industry projections on it. How much would it cost to rip all that 
crud off the existing mansion and rehab it to Historic-Designation standards? 
How many high-end seatings an evening could you fit into that historic 1st 
floor? Could the income from such a venture pay for the rehabbing, plus 
maintenance of the 2nd and 3rd-floor space, plus keep the restaurateur alive??
?
I'm all for it if it's possible. But I greatly fear the reason the mansion was 
expanded horizontally into a nursing home 30-odd years ago, was because there 
was no commercial way to make a building of that age and size pay for its own 
upkeep even then. Has anything changed since to make it practical today??
?
If anybody can come up with some estimates, it'd be fascinating to read them.?
?
-- Tony West?
?
> I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, > but my 
> personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel > built 
> within UC, but not at 40th and Pine. In addition, I dream that > the 40th and 
> Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom > Lussenhop as a high end 
> restaurant with 25 car parking and either > classroom or community space on 
> the second and third floor. That way > the City gets lots of construction and 
> service jobs along with the > multitude of fees that come along with 
> development. >?
> The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and > Pine/Woodland 
> Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced.?
>?
> You and I might be saying the same thing.?
>?
> Guy?
?
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

An interesting idea. It ought to be possible to cook up ballpark numbers 
on such a project just by pacing it off and running conventional 
restaurant-industry projections on it. How much would it cost to rip all 
that crud off the existing mansion and rehab it to Historic-Designation 
standards? How many high-end seatings an evening could you fit into that 
historic 1st floor? Could the income from such a venture pay for the 
rehabbing, plus maintenance of the 2nd and 3rd-floor space, plus keep 
the restaurateur alive?


I'm all for it if it's possible. But I greatly fear the reason the 
mansion was expanded horizontally into a nursing home 30-odd years ago, 
was because there was no commercial way to make a building of that age 
and size pay for its own upkeep even then. Has anything changed since to 
make it practical today?


If anybody can come up with some estimates, it'd be fascinating to read 
them.


-- Tony West


I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, 
but my personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel 
built within UC, but not at 40th and Pine.  In addition, I dream that 
the 40th and Pine site is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom 
Lussenhop as a high end restaurant with 25 car parking and either 
classroom or community space on the second and third floor.  That way 
the City gets lots of construction and service jobs along with the 
multitude of fees that come along with development. 

The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and 
Pine/Woodland Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced.


You and I might be saying the same thing.

Guy




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RE: [UC] Campus Inn

[KAREN ALLEN]

RE: "Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either 
a bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine 
right now! (the two projects employing a larger number of workers)".
 
Right, Glenn.  Penn and its water carriers want everyone to believe that there 
is nothing else possible that they can do with the building that makes 
"economic sense". Contrary to comparisons made at the last few HC hearings, 
Penn is not a private individual with limited finances, and the assertion is 
totally off base. Penn can cede the land to any number of academic departments 
and ask its deep pool of donors to pony up the money. AS HAS BEEN DONE: When 
Wharton wanted to expand to the site of the old Penn bookstore at 38th and 
Walnut, did not an individual named Jon Huntsman make such a large donation 
that the building is named for him???  
The thing to understand is that ridiculous claims such as that are made, not 
because they're true, but because they give the decisionmakers an excuse to 
justify rubberstamping the proposal. Then the claims are latched upon and 
repeated as true and anything that exposes the fallicy of the claims are 
ignored. 
  
And if they're going to build a 3 story building in the 3900 block of Spruce, 
around the corner from 40th and Pine on a VACANT LOT, why can't they build the 
Campus Inn on the vacant lot and renovate the mansion for the other project??? 



Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:38:14 -0500From: glen...@earthlink.netto: 
lom...@aol.com; anthony_w...@earthlink.net; univc...@list.purple.comsubject: 
Re: [UC] Campus Inn


"there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY 
feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available 
elsewhere."  
 
Real Problem:   Building Campus Inn at the 40th and Pine location, Penn and the 
developers need to completely destroy the standards of historic preservation 
and destroy the existing major zoning rules for a residential neighborhood.  
Since these developers refuse to engage the community honestly, we must  
assiduously and sagaciously analyze their motivitations, as so many of our 
neighbors have done.  (Mayor Nutter's vesting of power in an unaccountable PCPC 
indicates to me that all corporate giants will soon be exused from any and all 
rules for little businesses.  Campus Inn seems to be a precedent for smashing 
rules across West Philly)
Reality:   The university is "landbanking" the parcel at 40th and Pine so that 
it owns the lot forever.  Using the principal of economic rent seeking, the 
university wishes to maximize profit on the parcel without effort for an 
extended period of time.  Because "conflicts of interest" have become the major 
guiding principal at modern corporate universities, the insiders wish to also 
maximize the profits of cronies.  Tom and Campus apartments are partners with 
penn real estate on UCD, BID, rule of city gvernment, etc.  That is why the "17 
or 18 proposals" which went before Esaul Sanchez, (before development of the 
site was known pulicly) never had a chance of turning the parcel into a 
reasonable development project.  (As someone with deep ties to the university 
when it was a center for research and education; I am offended at the way the 
power brokers rejected the 17 or 18 proposals to maximize the profits of real 
estate cronies)
Guy, I believe you pointed out in testimony that while Penn has been 
unofficially claiming a financial hardship during all their presentations, they 
have refused to open the parcel for bids.  You are absolutely right to 
challenge this failure and the hardship claims.  Also, they have to date 
refused to transparently show  the "17 or 18 proposals" they received 
internally, so that we could analyze their claims that nothing else can 
possibly develop that site within or close to existing rules.
 Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either a 
bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine 
right now! (the two projects employing a larger number of workers).
Thanks for shedding light on this latest appeal to economic fear using the 
shock doctrine!
Glenn 
-Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 22, 2008 3:47 AM To: 
anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus 
Inn Tony,Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed 
by SH.I have one question about the facts in your post:  your last paragraph 
contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel-  that if this project is not 
built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built.  In addition, the 
mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where 
to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals.  (In 
fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel be

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[lomb21]

I appreciate your position and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my 
personal dream is that there is an 11 story extended stay hotel built within 
UC, but not at 40th and Pine.? In addition, I dream that the 40th and Pine site 
is developed by Campus Apartments and Tom Lussenhop as a high end restaurant 
with 25 car parking and either classroom or community space on the second and 
third floor.? That way the City gets lots of construction and service jobs 
along with the multitude of fees that come along with development.? 

The community is enriched by the development and the 40th and Pine/Woodland 
Terrace neighborhood is preserved and enhanced.

You and I?might be saying the same thing.

Guy


-Original Message-
From: Anthony West 
To: UnivCity listserv 
Sent: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 9:28 am
Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn


Guy,?
?
I don't disagree at all with these points of yours, and I didn't actually 
contend either of those "misconceptions". This is a big city and a big 
neighborhood, wherein all sorts of development possibilities will arise over 
time. And any real-estate parcel tends to have multiple possibilities, 
depending on how you fiddle with it.?
?
It is true, nonetheless, that questions of new job and business generation will 
be the chief *strictly economic* concerns that city planners will weigh when 
evaluating this or any similar project in our area. Growth control is not, 
repeat not, a top priority for the City of Philadelphia -- a city that has been 
losing jobs and residents for 50 years -- as it enters 2009. Just look at the 
City's budget and do the math yourself. This isn't something I'm advocating, 
just something I'm noticing.?
?
-- Tony West?
?
> Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed > by 
> SH.?
>?
> I have one question about the facts in your post: your last paragraph > 
> contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel- that if this > project is 
> not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get > built. In addition, the 
> mis-conception is that there will be jobs > lost and families will have no 
> where to stay while their loved ones > are at extended stays in area 
> hospitals. (In fact there is a three > story, extended stay hotel being built 
> on 39th and Spruce right now!)?
>?
>?
> I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point > out 
> that none of the economic problems that you mention (loss of jobs > and lack 
> of hotel rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere.?
>?
> Guy?
?
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Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

Guy,

I don't disagree at all with these points of yours, and I didn't 
actually contend either of those "misconceptions". This is a big city 
and a big neighborhood, wherein all sorts of development possibilities 
will arise over time. And any real-estate parcel tends to have multiple 
possibilities, depending on how you fiddle with it.


It is true, nonetheless, that questions of new job and business 
generation will be the chief *strictly economic* concerns that city 
planners will weigh when evaluating this or any similar project in our 
area. Growth control is not, repeat not, a top priority for the City of 
Philadelphia -- a city that has been losing jobs and residents for 50 
years -- as it enters 2009. Just look at the City's budget and do the 
math yourself. This isn't something I'm advocating, just something I'm 
noticing.


-- Tony West


Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed 
by SH.


I have one question about the facts in your post:  your last paragraph 
contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel-  that if this 
project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get 
built.  In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs 
lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones 
are at extended stays in area hospitals.  (In fact there is a three 
story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)



I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point 
out that none of the economic problems that you mention (loss of jobs 
and lack of hotel rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere.


Guy




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.

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Glenn moyer]

"there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere."  
Absolutely.  And for those who believe this is intended for hospital extended stays, they should consider the Penn tower hotel.  Penn had  a hotel across from Chop and HUP!   And directly west from the Penn tower hotel is the VA hospital.  There simply was no better location for hospital families, but Penn converted it!  The altruistic claims, about convenience for hospital families, are obviously false after we remember this Penn tower hotel.  Was it lack of hotel guests or just an uncaring profit maximizing decision?  Who knows.
(Guy, Mr. West's post is a classic appeal to the "shock doctrine"  which has been used so effectively to concentrate power by frightening our society.  Of course, the job loss scare is complete nonsense, as you correctly point out.  Thanks)  
Real Problem:   Building Campus Inn at the 40th and Pine location, Penn and the developers need to completely destroy the standards of historic preservation and destroy the existing major zoning rules for a residential neighborhood.  Since these developers refuse to engage the community honestly, we must  assiduously and sagaciously analyze their motivitations, as so many of our neighbors have done.  (Mayor Nutter's vesting of power in an unaccountable PCPC indicates to me that all corporate giants will soon be exused from any and all rules for little businesses.  Campus Inn seems to be a precedent for smashing rules across West Philly)
Reality:   The university is "landbanking" the parcel at 40th and Pine so that it owns the lot forever.  Using the principal of economic rent seeking, the university wishes to maximize profit on the parcel without effort for an extended period of time.  Because "conflicts of interest" have become the major guiding principal at modern corporate universities, the insiders wish to also maximize the profits of cronies.  Tom and Campus apartments are partners with penn real estate on UCD, BID, rule of city gvernment, etc.  That is why the "17 or 18 proposals" which went before Esaul Sanchez, (before development of the site was known pulicly) never had a chance of turning the parcel into a reasonable development project.  (As someone with deep ties to the university when it was a center for research and education; I am offended at the way the power brokers rejected the 17 or 18 proposals to maximize the profits of real estate cronies)
Guy, I believe you pointed out in testimony that while Penn has been unofficially claiming a financial hardship during all their presentations, they have refused to open the parcel for bids.  You are absolutely right to challenge this failure and the hardship claims.  Also, they have to date refused to transparently show  the "17 or 18 proposals" they received internally, so that we could analyze their claims that nothing else can possibly develop that site within or close to existing rules.
 Penn could be building an additional hotel on the postal lands, and either a bed and breakfast or academic department couuld be rehabbing 40th and Pine right now! (the two projects employing a larger number of workers).
Thanks for shedding light on this latest appeal to economic fear using the shock doctrine!
Glenn 
-Original Message- From: lom...@aol.com Sent: Dec 22, 2008 3:47 AM To: anthony_w...@earthlink.net, UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn Tony,Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH.I have one question about the facts in your post:  your last paragraph contains the core mis-conception about this Hotel-  that if this project is not built at 40th and Pine that it will never get built.  In addition, the mis-conception is that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals.  (In fact there is a three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)Tony, there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is available elsewhere.  For example, are you fascinated by the "located near public transportation" claim that the 40th and Pine Hotel claims?  There is probably no location in all of UC that is not equally located near public transportation.  How about locating on any of the 30 acres that Penn just bought near 30th St Station?If there is such a market need for the hotel then it can be built virtually anywhere in UC and the market forces for occupancy will be the same.I want to be clear that I am opposed to the location of the hotel at this particular site.  In addition, I am in favor the the erection of an extended stay hotel somewhere more appropriate in UC.I believe that the issues su

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[lomb21]

Tony,

Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion around the question posed by SH.

I have one question about the facts in your post:? your last paragraph contains 
the core mis-conception about this Hotel-? that if this project is not built at 
40th and Pine that it will never get built.??In addition, the mis-conception is 
that there will be jobs lost and families will have no where to stay while 
their loved ones are at extended stays in area hospitals.? (In fact there is a 
three story, extended stay hotel being built on 39th and Spruce right now!)

Tony, there are so many alternative locations for this hotel in our area, that 
ANY feature of this hotel that you see in the 40th and Pine location is 
available elsewhere.? For example, are you fascinated by the "located near 
public transportation" claim that the 40th and Pine Hotel claims?? There is 
probably no location in all of UC that is not equally located near public 
transportation.? How about locating on any of the 30 acres that Penn just 
bought near 30th St Station?

If there is such a market need for the hotel then it can be built virtually 
anywhere in UC and the market forces for occupancy will be the same.

I want to be clear that I am opposed to the location of the hotel at this 
particular site.? In addition, I am in favor the the erection of an extended 
stay hotel somewhere more appropriate in UC.

I believe that the issues surrounding whether it should be built on this 40th 
and Pine site seem to me to be:? the opposition does not want the intrusion of 
a large commercial building into a?residential three story?neighborhood in a 
case where there are alternatives.? The developers arguments are largely 
economic ones (need for the hotel rooms, jobs at the hotel, completion of the 
40th St commercial corridor).

I hear the same economic argument in your post and I wanted to point out that 
none of the economic problems that you?mention (loss of jobs and lack of hotel 
rooms) will occur if the hotel is built elsewhere.

Guy



-Original Message-
From: Anthony West 
To: UnivCity listserv 
Sent: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] Campus Inn


No, it's not going to do that, SH. "The development group" isn't really a 
single business of any kind, either public or private, so there is no "it" to 
go into bankruptcy.?
?
"Its" partners are the University of Pennsylvania, which is nowhere near 
bankruptcy, and the Hilton chain (there've been no large-scale collapses in the 
hospitality industry yet, although these are certainly tough times for 
restaurants and probably for hotels as well). Perhaps there are other 
real-estate operators with tiny stakes.?
?
Unlikely the Campus Inn matters enough to any of its participants to thrust 
them into insolvency. Failure of the project might mean a few people who are 
working on its plans may be cut by their employers or have their careers 
dampened.?
?
Of more importance to the rest of society, it would cause several major 
business contracts not to be written and hundreds of people not to get new 
jobs, precisely as we slide into a global recession. These are the kinds of 
economic issues at stake for policy-makers in this controversy.?
?
-- Tony West?
?
> Hi,?
>?
> Could someone spell this out for me??
>?
> Does this mean the campus inn development group is going to file for?
> bankruptcy??
>?
> - SH?
>?
> ?
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the?
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see?
> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.?
>?
>?
> ?
?
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the?
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see?
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.?

Re: [UC] Campus Inn

[Anthony West]

No, it's not going to do that, SH. "The development group" isn't really 
a single business of any kind, either public or private, so there is no 
"it" to go into bankruptcy.


"Its" partners are the University of Pennsylvania, which is nowhere near 
bankruptcy, and the Hilton chain (there've been no large-scale collapses 
in the hospitality industry yet, although these are certainly tough 
times for restaurants and probably for hotels as well). Perhaps there 
are other real-estate operators with tiny stakes.


Unlikely the Campus Inn matters enough to any of its participants to 
thrust them into insolvency. Failure of the project might mean a few 
people who are working on its plans may be cut by their employers or 
have their careers dampened.


Of more importance to the rest of society, it would cause several major 
business contracts not to be written and hundreds of people not to get 
new jobs, precisely as we slide into a global recession. These are the 
kinds of economic issues at stake for policy-makers in this controversy.


-- Tony West


Hi,

Could someone spell this out for me?

Does this mean the campus inn development group is going to file for
bankruptcy?

- SH


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Re: [UC] Campus Inn -- after PCPC, what next?

[Glenn moyer]

>There's a useful summary of the consequences of PCPC approval of the 
>Campus Inn project in today's Daily Pennsylvanian:


No! 

This is a continuation of the press release started Wed.  This writer has 
maintained a close association with the development team. She continues to make 
no effort to investigate the portrayal of community opposition as anything that 
a reader would interpret other than the reactions of NIMBYs.  This is 
propaganda for uninformed University readers!

Note the change from the previous lie about a gaurantee (extended-stay only) 
from Primavera.  (Primavera's ridiculous comparison to a take out order placed 
at Le Bec Fin)
I blasted the original lie to the two senior editors who printed the retraction 
of the reporter's outrageous false reporting of my testimony.  (Compare the 
NIMBY character, Glenn Moyer, to the video.  Please note the video is an hour 
long.  My testimony is approximately 28 minutes.  This example of false 
reporting makes the propagandistic intent obvious.)

All of the promises from Penn and cronies about parking spaces, trash 
collection, extended-stay use only, etc. are nothing but a smokescreen.  None 
of these promises would ever be enforceable by members of the community.


Did the DP cover the previous May 20 hearing?


The development team obviously brought her and prepared her because we all knew 
that the PCPC was going to recommend the project the day before the Trustees 
meeting.  The DP and this reporter have twice been used to put out these 
dishonest press releases which look like journalism.

I posted a comment on the on-line edition of the DP.  It may not yet be 
available.

Glenn
PS: The reporter may be seeking a job at the Public Record.  

-Original Message-
>From: Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 19, 2008 12:02 PM
>To: UnivCity listserv 
>Subject: [UC] Campus Inn -- after PCPC, what next?
>
>There's a useful summary of the consequences of PCPC approval of the 
>Campus Inn project in today's Daily Pennsylvanian:
>
>http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/09/19/News/News-Analysis.Zoning.Approval.Likely.After.Recommendation-3440684.shtml
>
>-- Tony West
>
>
>You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
>list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
>.


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Re: [UC] Campus Inn questionnaire (not poll) results

[Krfapt]

In a message dated 2/19/2008 4:02:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

This 2:9  ratio yields a multiplier of 4.5. So if a survey of a proposed 
business  project yields 12 positive and 50 negative unsolicited 
responses from  end-users, the "weighted responses" are 54 positives and 
50 negatives. In  other words, actual public opinion looks more like a 
tossup so far. I  would not assume most neighbors of the hotel project 
clearly express a  choice for or against, based on this tool alone.
 
I don't think I could have been more clear, to anyone who paid attention,  
about the fact that the absolute numbers answering one way or another were  
neither the intent of the questionnaires nor to be interpreted as reflective of 
 
anything. And I stated this in the context of criticizing the DP "poll."
 
The "subject" of the email posting to this list was "Campus Inn  
questionnaire (not poll) results."
 
And the web page containing the links stated "Informal community  
questionnaires to ascertain reasons why neighbors are opposed to, in support 
of,  or 
undecided about the project."
 
The key, as I thought was evident, was to consider each questionnaire in  and 
of itself, to see why those opposed were opposed, why those in favor were in  
favor, and why those undecided were undecided.
 
So, what's the point of all the huffety puffety in your post?
 
Sorry, but I deeply resent being deliberately misinterpreted. And I  post 
this to the list rather than send it to you privately (as would normally be  my 
inclination) in case your comments get anybody thinking I'm using data in an  
attempt to deceive rather than present food for thought.
 
Al Krigman




**Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.  
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598)

Re: [UC] Campus Inn questionnaire (not poll) results

[Anthony West]

Very worthy and interesting results, Al. How are we to make sense of them?

My first tool is the Rule of 2:9. That's based on an oral formula passed 
on by one of my early sales managers, who had recently graduated from U. 
Maryland Business School. It was: "For every 2 unsolicited positive 
feedback comments (compliments) a business gets, it will get 9 
unsolicited negative feedback comments (complaints)." That's for a 
perfectly average, normal business venture.


I can't vouch for the scientific status of Joe's wisdom. But he had just 
gotten out of B-School, he was young and charismatic ... and more 
importantly, very successful in the face of a hostile business 
environment. So I've gone by that ratio ever since. It makes intuitive 
sense to me now, anyway.


People who think you may have done a good business deed, have much less 
incentive to express their opinion in public than people who think you 
may have a done a bad business deed. Supporters accrue small personal 
gain from supporting you, whereas opponents maximize personal gain by 
opposing you.


This 2:9 ratio yields a multiplier of 4.5. So if a survey of a proposed 
business project yields 12 positive and 50 negative unsolicited 
responses from end-users, the "weighted responses" are 54 positives and 
50 negatives. In other words, actual public opinion looks more like a 
tossup so far. I would not assume most neighbors of the hotel project 
clearly express a choice for or against, based on this tool alone.


That's why we have multiple tools, multiple tests, multiple meetings and 
multiple voices. No one source of data is adequate to describe the 
public response to  large-scale developments like this one. If I thought 
I saw a simple public response at this time, I would say so. I don't see 
such a response. I don't have such a response myself.


-- Tony West



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No time like the present (especially because I figured out how to 
share the results without giving away the names or email addresses of 
the participants).
 
Go to www.icodat.com/c-i.htm . Then 
click on each of the links to get the tabulations.
 
Al Krigman



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Re: [UC] "Campus Inn" Zoning Meeting: Help Spread the Word

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

KAREN ALLEN wrote:


Neighbors are circulating fliers door-to-door and
displaying posters in public venues to get the word out
about the Campus Inn/SCHA Zoning Committee meeting slated
for next Wednesday, February 13, 7 PM at the Spruce Hill
Christian School, 42nd and Baltimore to discuss the Campus
Inn proposal. If you can help with this effort, please
contact me offlist and I will e-mail you jpg versions of the
flier and poster. Please feel free to forward this message.

Thanks.




I've been spotting fliers all around:

   http://tinyurl.com/35d8c2
   http://tinyurl.com/369e83


(note to lauren leatherbarrow: yes, it's about the community.)



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN





























































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Re: [UC] Campus Inn proposal to be presented to the Friends of 40th St on Friday, 1/25

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Friday, January 25
Oshiver Community Room, 3901 Market Street
8:00am - 9:30am

This month, Tom Lussenhop will be presenting his proposed hotel 
development for
40th and Pine Streets, and Captain Joe Fischer of Penn Police will be 
discussing

several of UPPD's new initiatives.

Hope to see everyone there!

Best,
Andrew Goodman
Friends of 40th Street

This is an opportunity for all concerned solid citizens who don't have 
to go to work on Friday mornings to get the latest news about the Campus 
Inn project from the horse's mouth (so to speak). It will be especially 
interesting because the Development team has heard a great deal of 
constructive criticism -- at venues such as the November SHCA meeting, 
and also in private coffee sessions with individuals -- and we'll be 
able to see how community inputs have helped shape the plan. It will 
also be an opportunity to ascertain:


* how far along they are in the process of applying for a zoning
  variance;
* whether the report in the DP was correct in stating that the whole
  project must be presented to the Penn Board of Trustees for
  approval before the property can be leased in the necessary manner;
* how the developers explain the rather striking difference between
  the rendering of the hotel prepared by its architect and that
  prepared by the acclaimed local architect, Marianna Thomas -- who
  happens to have an office (the only commercial occupancy) in the
  3900 block of Baltimore Avenue.

The Oshiver Room is at the east end of the 3901 Market apartment 
building, street level -- you should be able to enter from Market Street.




thanks for the announcement, al.

not sure what you mean by 'how community inputs have helped 
shape the plan.'


I could find nothing on the friends of 40th street website 
about the proposed hotel (nothing in their meeting minutes).


lussenhop had already presented the hotel proposal (using 
his architect's renderings) to the philadelphia historic 
commission on 9 november. and he got their approval -- 
before the november SHCA meeting on 13 november.





..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
  "It is very clear on this listserve who
   these people are. Ray has admitted being
   connected to this forger."  -- Tony West
  "Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated,
   more believable" -- Tony West




























































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