Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West - Grossbach Glasnost
In a message dated 6/13/2007 9:05:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone ever recall any email on this listserv from Barry Grossbach ... but has he ever posted anything so as we could participate before all has been said and done? He has been far too busy amongst CD academics establishing himself as the oral historian most compellingly chronicling the death of the Hood, during the Meyerson and Hackney eras, and its brilliant re-emergence during Rodin's Reign with somewhat more grandeur than a new Pope's first Easter Sunday Mass of the Day in Saint Peter's Square. Paradisi Gloria UCD Ciao, Craig ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Sharrieff says, Those who are interested in participating in the committee will be heard and have an opportunity to participate in making decisions about where we go from here. Unfortunately, that's only partly true. Only those who can juggle their schedules so that they can be physically present will actually be heard. Those who have non-standard job schedules, lengthy commutes, child-rearing obligations, family commitments, and the like will not be there, and thus will be excluded from the process. Most community meetings in this area are scheduled for early weekday mornings (e.g., the recent First Thursday meeting) or weeknights. While that's convenient for some -- especially those who are attending as a part of their day jobs -- it tends to exclude many others (most noticeably those who are single parents). If you want your committee to be truly representative, you will take steps to ensure that some of the meetings are on weekends (and NOT first thing in the morning, either...), and that some provision will be made for childcare. -Original Message- From: S. Sharrieff Ali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 2:46 pm Subject: RE: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West Al and All: I do have an agenda and direction in mind for tomorrow. This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. I plan to assist in creating a process. All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Those who are interested in participating in the committee will be heard and have an opportunity to participate in making decisions about where we go from here. The idea of the stakeholders owning the process is not about having an endless gripe session which is why the committee meeting will be limited to 1 ½ hours..2 at tops and the library will close at 8PM. Al, your comments are most appreciated. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Dave Axler wrote: Sharrieff says, Those who are interested in participating in the committee will be heard and have an opportunity to participate in making decisions about where we go from here. Unfortunately, that's only partly true. Only those who can juggle their schedules so that they can be physically present will actually be heard. Those who have non-standard job schedules, lengthy commutes, child-rearing obligations, family commitments, and the like will not be there, and thus will be excluded from the process. Most community meetings in this area are scheduled for early weekday mornings (e.g., the recent First Thursday meeting) or weeknights. While that's convenient for some -- especially those who are attending as a part of their day jobs -- it tends to exclude many others (most noticeably those who are single parents). If you want your committee to be truly representative, you will take steps to ensure that some of the meetings are on weekends (and NOT first thing in the morning, either...), and that some provision will be made for childcare. No problem: all we need is to set up a meeting on short notice that a) isn't on a weeknight when people are taking care of kids, b) isn't on a weekend when people have other things to do and are unlikely to provide good turnout, c) isn't during the weekday when people are at work, d) is in a room sized to accommodate the agoraphobic community, and d) is at a location with adequate child-care facilities, no insitutional connection to Penn, and oriented towards true north to balance the chi energies of those unempowered individuals with bio-geographical deficiencies. Maybe you people are missing something important here. Sharrieff is trying to organize a meeting of people who'd like to be on this committee. So it's going to be a small, preliminary planning meeting. This is mainly to _get things started_. It _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. THEN, you can niggle over whether anybody is unfairly excluded because of scheduling, child-care, travel issues and the like. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Thanks Brian. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Siano Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:01 AM Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West Dave Axler wrote: Sharrieff says, Those who are interested in participating in the committee will be heard and have an opportunity to participate in making decisions about where we go from here. Unfortunately, that's only partly true. Only those who can juggle their schedules so that they can be physically present will actually be heard. Those who have non-standard job schedules, lengthy commutes, child-rearing obligations, family commitments, and the like will not be there, and thus will be excluded from the process. Most community meetings in this area are scheduled for early weekday mornings (e.g., the recent First Thursday meeting) or weeknights. While that's convenient for some -- especially those who are attending as a part of their day jobs -- it tends to exclude many others (most noticeably those who are single parents). If you want your committee to be truly representative, you will take steps to ensure that some of the meetings are on weekends (and NOT first thing in the morning, either...), and that some provision will be made for childcare. No problem: all we need is to set up a meeting on short notice that a) isn't on a weeknight when people are taking care of kids, b) isn't on a weekend when people have other things to do and are unlikely to provide good turnout, c) isn't during the weekday when people are at work, d) is in a room sized to accommodate the agoraphobic community, and d) is at a location with adequate child-care facilities, no insitutional connection to Penn, and oriented towards true north to balance the chi energies of those unempowered individuals with bio-geographical deficiencies. Maybe you people are missing something important here. Sharrieff is trying to organize a meeting of people who'd like to be on this committee. So it's going to be a small, preliminary planning meeting. This is mainly to _get things started_. It _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. THEN, you can niggle over whether anybody is unfairly excluded because of scheduling, child-care, travel issues and the like. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Sharrief has also welcomed people to email him with suggestions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Siano Sharrieff is trying to organize a meeting of people who'd like to be on this committee. So it's going to be a small, preliminary planning meeting. This is mainly to _get things started_. It _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. THEN, you can niggle over whether anybody is unfairly excluded because of scheduling, child-care, travel issues and the like. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Dave Axler wrote: Brian, Sharrieff, Co.: To quote again from the same mail sent by Sharrieff: This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. ... All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Yes, it's a planning meeting, as you point out -- it's not the grand community-wide forum that may result from all the planning. Yes, it has ...an agenda and direction... which Sharrieff describes as ...creating a process. My email referred to what the committee will be doing, not to the end result of their work. I'm sorry that you weren't able to make that distinction when you said, Maybe you people are missing something important hereIt _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. No, your email referred to Sharrieff's scheduling of _this_ meeting. If the planning process itself is not conducted in an open and reasonably inclusive manner, then the results of that planning will be suspect. That may be an unfortunate side-effect of the planning process, but it is not an issue that should be dismissed with snarky straw-man references to the agoraphobic community, chi energies, and bio-geographical deficiencies. If you can explain how to have a meeting where every single person in University City can attend-- free of scheduling conflicts, access issues, and the like for several thousand residents-- please, by all means, educate us. Otherwise, drop the pretense of lecturing about inclusiveness by demanding that others meet impossibly Utopian goals. Why? Because it's nothing more than an insult to the people who are actually _trying_ to establish such a process. Sharrieff wants to get a meeting together to begin to address issues with UCD. He sets a date, a time, he gets a place to meet, and he starts asking people to attend. Obviously, not everybody's going to be able to attend; but your complaints amount to saying, You haven't accommodated all the people who _can't_ make that date. You haven't even _tried_ to be all-inclusive. It's an _empty_ complaint, usually made so one can congratulate oneself on being more inclusive without having to try to do better. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Brian, Do try reading what I said, not what words you'd like to put in my mouth so that you can then inaccurately make claims about my having impossibly utopian goals (many of which you've invented on my behalf, a thankless task from which you may consider yourself excused in the future). I'll repeat it for you: If you want your committee to be truly representative, you will take steps to ensure that some of the meetings are on weekends (and NOT first thing in the morning, either...), and that some provision will be made for childcare. That's _SOME_ of the meetings. Not _ALL_ of the meetings. Not even _THIS_SPECIFIC_ meeting. -Original Message- From: Brian Siano [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West Dave Axler wrote: Brian, Sharrieff, Co.: To quote again from the same mail sent by Sharrieff: This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. ... All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Yes, it's a planning meeting, as you point out -- it's not the grand community-wide forum that may result from all the planning. Yes, it has ...an agenda and direction... which Sharrieff describes as ...creating a process. My email referred to what the committee will be doing, not to the end result of their work. I'm sorry that you weren't able to make that distinction when you said, Maybe you people are missing something important hereIt _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. No, your email referred to Sharrieff's scheduling of _this_ meeting. If the planning process itself is not conducted in an open and reasonably inclusive manner, then the results of that planning will be suspect. That may be an unfortunate side-effect of the planning process, but it is not an issue that should be dismissed with snarky straw-man references to the agoraphobic community, chi energies, and bio-geographical deficiencies. If you can explain how to have a meeting where every single person in University City can attend-- free of scheduling conflicts, access issues, and the like for several thousand residents-- please, by all means, educate us. Otherwise, drop the pretense of lecturing about inclusiveness by demanding that others meet impossibly Utopian goals. Why? Because it's nothing more than an insult to the people who are actually _trying_ to establish such a process. Sharrieff wants to get a meeting together to begin to address issues with UCD. He sets a date, a time, he gets a place to meet, and he starts asking people to attend. Obviously, not everybody's going to be able to attend; but your complaints amount to saying, You haven't accommodated all the people who _can't_ make that date. You haven't even _tried_ to be all-inclusive. It's an _empty_ complaint, usually made so one can congratulate oneself on being more inclusive without having to try to do better. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Does anyone ever recall any email on this listserv from Barry Grossbach (who is a major component in the initiatives that has affected the economic and physical development) inviting the community to participate with regard to any major community initiatives? I highly respect Barry and all he has done to develop the area, but has he ever posted anything so as we could participate before all has been said and done? Sharrieff may not be all one expects, but at least he has given notice. Perhaps we are just arguing amongst ourselves and spinning our wheels, while all has been decided. On 6/13/07 3:58 PM, Brian Siano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Axler wrote: Brian, Sharrieff, Co.: To quote again from the same mail sent by Sharrieff: This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. ... All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Yes, it's a planning meeting, as you point out -- it's not the grand community-wide forum that may result from all the planning. Yes, it has ...an agenda and direction... which Sharrieff describes as ...creating a process. My email referred to what the committee will be doing, not to the end result of their work. I'm sorry that you weren't able to make that distinction when you said, Maybe you people are missing something important hereIt _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. No, your email referred to Sharrieff's scheduling of _this_ meeting. If the planning process itself is not conducted in an open and reasonably inclusive manner, then the results of that planning will be suspect. That may be an unfortunate side-effect of the planning process, but it is not an issue that should be dismissed with snarky straw-man references to the agoraphobic community, chi energies, and bio-geographical deficiencies. If you can explain how to have a meeting where every single person in University City can attend-- free of scheduling conflicts, access issues, and the like for several thousand residents-- please, by all means, educate us. Otherwise, drop the pretense of lecturing about inclusiveness by demanding that others meet impossibly Utopian goals. Why? Because it's nothing more than an insult to the people who are actually _trying_ to establish such a process. Sharrieff wants to get a meeting together to begin to address issues with UCD. He sets a date, a time, he gets a place to meet, and he starts asking people to attend. Obviously, not everybody's going to be able to attend; but your complaints amount to saying, You haven't accommodated all the people who _can't_ make that date. You haven't even _tried_ to be all-inclusive. It's an _empty_ complaint, usually made so one can congratulate oneself on being more inclusive without having to try to do better. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Barry never really participated in this list.serv, as I recall. Rather, his partner, Mike Hardy used to post to the list, but unsubscribed after one of the mass defections of many list.servers back in the early 2000's. Sande - Original Message - From: Wilma de Sotomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brian Sianomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: UnivCity listservmailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West Does anyone ever recall any email on this listserv from Barry Grossbach (who is a major component in the initiatives that has affected the economic and physical development) inviting the community to participate with regard to any major community initiatives? I highly respect Barry and all he has done to develop the area, but has he ever posted anything so as we could participate before all has been said and done? Sharrieff may not be all one expects, but at least he has given notice. Perhaps we are just arguing amongst ourselves and spinning our wheels, while all has been decided. On 6/13/07 3:58 PM, Brian Siano [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Axler wrote: Brian, Sharrieff, Co.: To quote again from the same mail sent by Sharrieff: This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. ... All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Yes, it's a planning meeting, as you point out -- it's not the grand community-wide forum that may result from all the planning. Yes, it has ...an agenda and direction... which Sharrieff describes as ...creating a process. My email referred to what the committee will be doing, not to the end result of their work. I'm sorry that you weren't able to make that distinction when you said, Maybe you people are missing something important hereIt _is_ not going to be a large public meeting at which public policy is to be debated. No, your email referred to Sharrieff's scheduling of _this_ meeting. If the planning process itself is not conducted in an open and reasonably inclusive manner, then the results of that planning will be suspect. That may be an unfortunate side-effect of the planning process, but it is not an issue that should be dismissed with snarky straw-man references to the agoraphobic community, chi energies, and bio-geographical deficiencies. If you can explain how to have a meeting where every single person in University City can attend-- free of scheduling conflicts, access issues, and the like for several thousand residents-- please, by all means, educate us. Otherwise, drop the pretense of lecturing about inclusiveness by demanding that others meet impossibly Utopian goals. Why? Because it's nothing more than an insult to the people who are actually _trying_ to establish such a process. Sharrieff wants to get a meeting together to begin to address issues with UCD. He sets a date, a time, he gets a place to meet, and he starts asking people to attend. Obviously, not everybody's going to be able to attend; but your complaints amount to saying, You haven't accommodated all the people who _can't_ make that date. You haven't even _tried_ to be all-inclusive. It's an _empty_ complaint, usually made so one can congratulate oneself on being more inclusive without having to try to do better. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.htmlhttp://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.htmlhttp://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West
Al and All: I do have an agenda and direction in mind for tomorrow. This is a committee meeting for those who already joined and those who want to join. I plan to assist in creating a process. All are welcomed to hear what is happening, but we will conduct a committee meeting. Those who are interested in participating in the committee will be heard and have an opportunity to participate in making decisions about where we go from here. The idea of the stakeholders owning the process is not about having an endless gripe session which is why the committee meeting will be limited to 1 ½ hours..2 at tops and the library will close at 8PM. Al, your comments are most appreciated. S -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:39 PM To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: [UC] Committee meeting on the 13th at Walnut West Open note to Sharrieff: Sorry that I have other commitments tomorrow night and can't make the meeting you've called at Walnut West Library. In lieu of being there (and to stimulate dialog), I'd like to urge that the focus be strictly on problems of UCD as it's now being run and the community. Things like transparency, decisions having to do with implementing visions of planning and development that many stakeholders in the areas do not share, the real or perceived usurping of what should be government responsibilities with respect to security, litter abatement, events and activities in public spaces, etc. Connected with these issues are questions which should be on the minds of people from whom UCD solicits voluntary contributions -- such as the cost-effectiveness of programs (litter and the ambassadors cost over $1.4 million each last year ... could this money be spent with more impact through better management?) or through expenditures that seem to serve no purpose except shameless self-promotion of UCD (like the silly report card they just mailed out). Likewise, there are issues to be discussed having to do with what Penn either naively or facetiously calls its partnership with the community. It ain't no partnership, regardless of what definition of that relationship some Penn Trustee who drove all the way from DC for a First Thursday meeting tried to intimidate me by saying he could supply. All Penn does, really, is spend money on local projects Glenn Bryan's boss thinks are terrific -- some on its own and some by giving dough to people who will implement its agenda. This is no partnership. For instance, how many of the immigrant merchants being kicked out of 40th Street between Walnut and Market think that what's happening there is a partnership? If the question of a NID is ever to be resurrected, UCD (and Penn -- who are clearly the driving force) would certainly have to be much more of as opposed to simply in the community before it would have the foundation to formulate such an initiative and surely before it could even pretend to be suitable for serving as the NIDMA. Well, you get the picture. Good luck with having something positive emerge from the meeting. And, if any Penn or UCD people attend, don't let them hijack it the way they did with the charades known as the 40th Street Forums. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and all-around doubter. _ See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 .
