Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[MLamond]

Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite understand 
your response, Karen.

Melani



Melani Lamond, Associate Broker
Urban & Bye, Realtor
3529 Lancaster Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19104
cell phone 215-356-7266
office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113
office fax 215-222-1101

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Mike V.]

Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD
would have been all 
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us"?]

What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we would
be overrun by crime, and that only 
they can "protect" us from it"?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:33:14 EST
>
>Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite
>understand
>your response, Karen.
>
>Melani

I thought I was very clear.

UCD has built up the belief that we would be overrun by crime, and that
only 
they can "protect" us from it.  Along with that is the presumption that 
"crime" is something that "others" bring into the neighborhood from
outside. 
  Your opening statement carried within it the presumption that crime
could 
never come from within our presumably elite class of residents: Penn 
students. But it did.

Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been
all 
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us. 
But because the crime came from the very class that is presumed to need
UCD 
protection, nothing could be said.  I recall the e-mail from a few weeks
ago 
where a young man wrote how he was mugged in the 4800 block of
Warrington, 
and no one responded when he yelled for help.  Correct me if I'm wrong,
but 
I believe it was you who said that if the NID was in place there would
have 
been safety ambassadors there to prevent it.

Karen



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Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Ross Bender]

Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and you're
not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether there's a
trend or not.

1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys and
videotaping it
4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn

etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear of
dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and make
University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an agency
that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal Penn
students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their kiddies to
this upscale school.

My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape from
Ivy League  Gunman".


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org


On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD
would have been all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us"?]

What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we would
be overrun by crime, and that only
they can "protect" us from it"?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:33:14 EST
>
>Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite
>understand
>your response, Karen.
>
>Melani

I thought I was very clear.

UCD has built up the belief that we would be overrun by crime, and that
only
they can "protect" us from it.  Along with that is the presumption that
"crime" is something that "others" bring into the neighborhood from
outside.
  Your opening statement carried within it the presumption that crime
could
never come from within our presumably elite class of residents: Penn
students. But it did.

Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been
all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us.
But because the crime came from the very class that is presumed to need
UCD
protection, nothing could be said.  I recall the e-mail from a few weeks
ago
where a young man wrote how he was mugged in the 4800 block of
Warrington,
and no one responded when he yelled for help.  Correct me if I'm wrong,
but
I believe it was you who said that if the NID was in place there would
have
been safety ambassadors there to prevent it.

Karen



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.


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RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Kyle Cassidy]

>Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been
all 
>over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us. 

I actually think it's the exact opposite -- the only reason, I think,
this is getting any media attention is that it was a Penn student. If
had been some non Penn person shooting at some other non Penn person it
never would have gotten on the news. 

Remember those two guys who mugged Mike V. and then shot at a Penn
security guard before being apprehended on 40th? As far as I know, it
never made it on the news, the only way we heard about it was that Mike
told us. The crime map is riddled with incidents that I've never seen
any news stories about. If Mike had gotten his act together and gotten
mugged by a Wharton Senior who shot at Penn Police, we would have heard
about it.

We always love to see the clay feet of the Rich and Privilidged.



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Mike V.]

Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state the
argument actually makes sense.
 
You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare those
crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such crimes in the
neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous Negrous west of the
campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd be interested to see how
the numbers shake down.
 
I'm serious.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and
you're not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether
there's a trend or not.

1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment 
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys
and videotaping it
4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend 
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn

etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear
of dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and
make University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an
agency that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal
Penn students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their
kiddies to this upscale school. 

My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape
from Ivy League  Gunman".


-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org



On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD

would have been all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us"?]

What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we would
be overrun by crime, and that only 
they can "protect" us from it"?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!! 


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!! 
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:33:14 EST
>
>Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite
>understand
>your response, Karen.
>
>Melani

I thought I was very clear. 

UCD has built up the belief that we would be overrun by crime, and that
only
they can "protect" us from it.  Along with that is the presumption that
"crime" is something that "others" bring into the neighborhood from 
outside.
  Your opening statement carried within it the presumption that crime
could
never come from within our presumably elite class of residents: Penn
students. But it did.

Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been 
all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us.
But because the crime came from the very class that is presumed to need
UCD
protection, nothing could be said.  I recall the e-mail from a few weeks

ago
where a young man wrote how he was mugged in the 4800 block of
Warrington,
and no one responded when he yelled for help.  Correct me if I'm wrong,
but
I believe it was you who said that if the NID was in place there would 
have
been safety ambassadors there to prevent it.

Karen



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see 
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see 
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Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Ross Bender]

On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state the
argument actually makes sense.

You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare those
crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such crimes in the
neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous Negrous west of the
campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd be interested to see how the
numbers shake down.

I'm serious.



There's a major problem in comparing lists, which is that white Penn
students don't get busted for trafficking in and indulging in illegal drugs
like marijuana and cocaine, whereas  (particularly) young black kids DO get
busted. That's why the Gulag in this country is full to bursting of black
people arrested for drug offenses. It's a method of social control, which
for some reason the Zombies running the System prefer to using the money to
provide housing, education, health services etc.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org


-Original Message-
*From:* Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
*To:* Mike V.
*Cc:* UnivCity@list.purple.com
*Subject:* Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and you're
not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether there's
a trend or not.

1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys and
videotaping it
4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn

etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear of
dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and make
University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an agency
that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal Penn
students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their kiddies to
this upscale school.

My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape
from Ivy League  Gunman".


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org


On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
> Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
> man and at worst, utterly paranoid.
>
> Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD
>
> would have been all
> over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
> us"?]
>
> What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we would
> be overrun by crime, and that only
> they can "protect" us from it"?
>
> - Mike V.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
> >Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!
> >Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:33:14 EST
> >
> >Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite
> >understand
> >your response, Karen.
> >
> >Melani
>
> I thought I was very clear.
>
> UCD has built up the belief that we would be overrun by crime, and that
> only
> they can "protect" us from it.  Along with that is the presumption that
> "crime" is something that "others" bring into the neighborhood from
> outside.
>   Your opening statement carried within it the presumption that crime
> could
> never come from within our presumably elite class of residents: Penn
> students. But it did.
>
> Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been
> all
> over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
> us.
> But because the crime came from the very class that is presumed to need
> UCD
> protection, nothing could be said.  I recall the e-mail from a few weeks
>
> ago
> where a young man wrote how he was mugged in the 4800 block of
> Warrington,
> and no one responded when he yelled for help.  Correct me if I'm wrong,
> but
> I believe it was you who said that if the NID was in place there would
> have
> been safety ambassadors there to prevent it.
>
> Karen
>
>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
>

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Mike V.]

So what you're telling me is that there's no way to prove your
hypothesis?  That's a shaky basis for an argument then, isn't it?  
 
But there's got to be a way we can work this out.  I'm not interested in
comparing non-violent drug crime here.  I don't care who smokes up in
the privacy of their own home, dorm room, squat or illegal gambling den.
You mentioned a shooting, two murders and two incidents of sexual
malfeasance.  Why don't we narrow the net to, say, violent crimes and
sex crimes (and violent sex crimes, natch)?
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:50 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!




On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state the
argument actually makes sense.
 
You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare those
crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such crimes in the
neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous Negrous west of the
campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd be interested to see how
the numbers shake down.
 
I'm serious.


There's a major problem in comparing lists, which is that white Penn
students don't get busted for trafficking in and indulging in illegal
drugs like marijuana and cocaine, whereas  (particularly) young black
kids DO get busted. That's why the Gulag in this country is full to
bursting of black people arrested for drug offenses. It's a method of
social control, which for some reason the Zombies running the System
prefer to using the money to provide housing, education, health services
etc. 



-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org




-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and
you're not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether
there's a trend or not.

1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment 
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys
and videotaping it
4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend 
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn

etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear
of dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and
make University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an
agency that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal
Penn students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their
kiddies to this upscale school. 

My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape
from Ivy League  Gunman".


-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org



On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD

would have been all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us"?]

What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we would
be overrun by crime, and that only 
they can "protect" us from it"?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!! 


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!! 
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:33:14 EST
>
>Sorry, maybe my joke wasn't appropriate, but I don't think I quite
>understand
>your response, Karen.
>
>Melani

I thought I was very clear. 

UCD has built up the belief that we would be overrun by crime, and that
only
they can "protect" us from it.  Along with that is the presumption that
"crime" is something that "others" bring into the neighborhood from 
outside.
  Your opening statement carried within it the presumption that crime
could
never come from within our presumably elite class of residents: Penn
students. But it did.

Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been 
all
over it as yet another example of why

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Ross Bender]

On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 So what you're telling me is that there's no way to prove your
hypothesis?  That's a shaky basis for an argument then, isn't it?

But there's got to be a way we can work this out.  I'm not interested in
comparing non-violent drug crime here.  I don't care who smokes up in the
privacy of their own home, dorm room, squat or illegal gambling den.  You
mentioned a shooting, two murders and two incidents of sexual malfeasance.
Why don't we narrow the net to, say, violent crimes and sex crimes (and
violent sex crimes, natch)?



YOU don't care who smokes up. How do  these people get their drugs?  No, I
don't want to narrow the net. I want to include all the corporate evildoers
and shady landlords who don't pay their taxes on their properties. You're
hypocritical if you only consider "violent" crime as crime. The Zombie
System *protects* white collar criminals, who take much more money from us
than kids on the street.

Go soak your head some more.

BTW the "dangerous Negro" quote is from J. Edgar Hoover, who called Martin
Luther King Jr "the most dangerous Negro in America."

-Original Message-

*From:* Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:50 PM
*To:* Mike V.
*Cc:* UnivCity@list.purple.com
*Subject:* Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!



On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state the
> argument actually makes sense.
>
> You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare those
> crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such crimes in the
> neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous Negrous west of the
> campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd be interested to see how the
> numbers shake down.
>
> I'm serious.
>

There's a major problem in comparing lists, which is that white Penn
students don't get busted for trafficking in and indulging in illegal drugs
like marijuana and cocaine, whereas  (particularly) young black kids DO get
busted. That's why the Gulag in this country is full to bursting of black
people arrested for drug offenses. It's a method of social control, which
for some reason the Zombies running the System prefer to using the money to
provide housing, education, health services etc.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

>   -----Original Message-
> *From:* Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
> *To:* Mike V.
> *Cc:* UnivCity@list.purple.com
> *Subject:* Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!
>
> Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and
> you're not.
>
> Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether
> there's a trend or not.
>
> 1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment
> 2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
> 3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys
> and videotaping it
> 4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend
> 5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn
>
> etc etc etc
>
> The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear
> of dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and make
> University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an agency
> that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal Penn
> students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their kiddies to
> this upscale school.
>
> My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape
> from Ivy League  Gunman".
>
>
> --
> Ross Bender
> http://rossbender.org
>
>
> On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a
> > trend.
> > Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous
> > straw
> > man and at worst, utterly paranoid.
> >
> > Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that
> > "UCD
> > would have been all
> > over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them
> > taxing
> > us"?]
> >
> > What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we
> > would
> > be overrun by crime, and that only
> > they can "protect" us from it"?
> >
> > - Mike V.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [E

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Mike V.]

So what, you think that UCD should start policing white-collar crime?
If UCD was around, Arthur Anderson would never have collapsed!  UCD
would have collared Bernie Ebbers (and my Worldcom options would be
worth something!).
 
I offered a reasonable, equitable, statistically verifiable way to prove
or disprove your hypothesis.  You bloviated for a while and ranted about
The Man Keeping Us Down.
 
Go spit into the wind.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:58 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!




On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

So what you're telling me is that there's no way to prove your
hypothesis?  That's a shaky basis for an argument then, isn't it?  
 
But there's got to be a way we can work this out.  I'm not interested in
comparing non-violent drug crime here.  I don't care who smokes up in
the privacy of their own home, dorm room, squat or illegal gambling den.
You mentioned a shooting, two murders and two incidents of sexual
malfeasance.  Why don't we narrow the net to, say, violent crimes and
sex crimes (and violent sex crimes, natch)?


YOU don't care who smokes up. How do  these people get their drugs?  No,
I don't want to narrow the net. I want to include all the corporate
evildoers and shady landlords who don't pay their taxes on their
properties. You're hypocritical if you only consider "violent" crime as
crime. The Zombie System *protects* white collar criminals, who take
much more money from us than kids on the street. 

Go soak your head some more.

BTW the "dangerous Negro" quote is from J. Edgar Hoover, who called
Martin Luther King Jr "the most dangerous Negro in America."



-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:50 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!





On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state the
argument actually makes sense.
 
You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare those
crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such crimes in the
neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous Negrous west of the
campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd be interested to see how
the numbers shake down.
 
I'm serious.


There's a major problem in comparing lists, which is that white Penn
students don't get busted for trafficking in and indulging in illegal
drugs like marijuana and cocaine, whereas  (particularly) young black
kids DO get busted. That's why the Gulag in this country is full to
bursting of black people arrested for drug offenses. It's a method of
social control, which for some reason the Zombies running the System
prefer to using the money to provide housing, education, health services
etc. 



-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org




-Original Message-----
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and
you're not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether
there's a trend or not.

1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment 
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage boys
and videotaping it
4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend 
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy porn

etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a fear
of dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific crimes and
make University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD markets itself as an
agency that will make the area cleaner and safer for the white virginal
Penn students so their wealthy mommas won't be afraid to send their
kiddies to this upscale school. 

My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students Escape
from Ivy League  Gunman".


-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org



On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous straw
man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that "UCD

would have been all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
us"?]

What about any evidenc

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Margie Politzer]

>> Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have been
> all 
>> over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them taxing
> us. 
> 
> I actually think it's the exact opposite -- the only reason, I think,
> this is getting any media attention is that it was a Penn student. If
> had been some non Penn person shooting at some other non Penn person it
> never would have gotten on the news.
> 
> Remember those two guys who mugged Mike V. and then shot at a Penn
> security guard before being apprehended on 40th? As far as I know, it
> never made it on the news, the only way we heard about it was that Mike
> told us. The crime map is riddled with incidents that I've never seen
> any news stories about. If Mike had gotten his act together and gotten
> mugged by a Wharton Senior who shot at Penn Police, we would have heard
> about it.
> 
> We always love to see the clay feet of the Rich and Privilidged.
> 

Karen said "Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD would have
been all over it." I take that she meant that UCD would have used the news
in their own correspondence and marketing, trying to win over those BID
hold-outs. The media attention is a different issue.

Margie P. 


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.

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 2/1/2007 12:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Karen's  argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and you're  
not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether  there's a 
trend or not.



Mike has a point in that Karen's posting was anecdotal rather than  
statistically valid.
 
But I believe that what Karen was really getting at was the story  behind the 
story. Of course, neither UCD nor anyone else can anticipate, let  alone 
prevent, this sort of singular incident. But UCD seems to take credit for  all 
kinds of things in this area to which they have no legitimate claim of  
ownership. More than just take credit. Promote the smithereens out of  giving 
itself 
credit -- with its $74k flackette not only flushing out the  propaganda to the 
media (mostly the DP and the UCReview) but also acting as a  
newsmaker-spokesperson herself. And it's this self congratulatory pap about  
what they want to 
portray as our little Utopia-on-Schuylkill that Karen  cleverly and subtly 
mocked in her posting.  

Al  Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny ®

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Kyle Cassidy]

The Penn police were quick to point out that it happened in the Western
Wildes, out of their patrol area. Like it says on the map: Gun slingers
be thar.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:58 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

In a message dated 2/1/2007 12:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer
and you're not.

Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see
whether there's a trend or not.


Mike has a point in that Karen's posting was anecdotal rather than
statistically valid.
 
But I believe that what Karen was really getting at was the story behind
the story. Of course, neither UCD nor anyone else can anticipate, let
alone prevent, this sort of singular incident. But UCD seems to take
credit for all kinds of things in this area to which they have no
legitimate claim of ownership. More than just take credit. Promote the
smithereens out of giving itself credit -- with its $74k flackette not
only flushing out the propaganda to the media (mostly the DP and the
UCReview) but also acting as a newsmaker-spokesperson herself. And it's
this self congratulatory pap about what they want to portray as our
little Utopia-on-Schuylkill that Karen cleverly and subtly mocked in her
posting. 
 
Al Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny (r)


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Frank]

If we include underage drinking, the number of Penn offenders will go  
WAY up, too.


Frank

On Feb 1, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Ross Bender wrote:




On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So what you're telling me is that there's no way to prove your  
hypothesis?  That's a shaky basis for an argument then, isn't it?


But there's got to be a way we can work this out.  I'm not  
interested in comparing non-violent drug crime here.  I don't care  
who smokes up in the privacy of their own home, dorm room, squat or  
illegal gambling den.  You mentioned a shooting, two murders and  
two incidents of sexual malfeasance.  Why don't we narrow the net  
to, say, violent crimes and sex crimes (and violent sex crimes,  
natch)?


YOU don't care who smokes up. How do  these people get their  
drugs?  No, I don't want to narrow the net. I want to include all  
the corporate evildoers and shady landlords who don't pay their  
taxes on their properties. You're hypocritical if you only consider  
"violent" crime as crime. The Zombie System *protects* white collar  
criminals, who take much more money from us than kids on the street.


Go soak your head some more.

BTW the "dangerous Negro" quote is from J. Edgar Hoover, who called  
Martin Luther King Jr "the most dangerous Negro in America."


-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:50 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!



On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmmm.  Well, I suppose you could have a point.  The way you state  
the argument actually makes sense.


You keep that list, Ross, and after a couple months let's compare  
those crimes with muggings, assaults, robberies and other such  
crimes in the neighborhood committed by, as you put it, "dangerous  
Negrous west of the campus" committed in the same time period.  I'd  
be interested to see how the numbers shake down.


I'm serious.

There's a major problem in comparing lists, which is that white  
Penn students don't get busted for trafficking in and indulging in  
illegal drugs like marijuana and cocaine, whereas  (particularly)  
young black kids DO get busted. That's why the Gulag in this  
country is full to bursting of black people arrested for drug  
offenses. It's a method of social control, which for some reason  
the Zombies running the System prefer to using the money to provide  
housing, education, health services etc.



--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org
-Original Message-----
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:32 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

Karen's argument makes perfect sense. That's why she's a lawyer and  
you're not.


Let's start keeping track of the Penn malefactors and see whether  
there's a trend or not.


1) Penn law student fires 15 shots into Drexel student's appartment
2) Penn professor arrested for allegedly bludgeoning his wife to death
3) Penn professor arrested for allegedly having sex with underage  
boys and videotaping it

4) Wharton student on trial for murder of ex-boyfriend's girlfriend
5) Penn library director arrested for having computer full of kiddy  
porn


etc etc etc

The crux of Karen's argument is that UCD propaganda is based on a  
fear of dangerous Negroes west of the campus who commit horrific  
crimes and make University City unsafe for Penn students. UCD  
markets itself as an agency that will make the area cleaner and  
safer for the white virginal Penn students so their wealthy mommas  
won't be afraid to send their kiddies to this upscale school.


My favorite headline from yesterday's incident "Drexel Students  
Escape from Ivy League  Gunman".



--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org


On 2/1/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Karen, your argument... It isn't rational.  One incident is not a  
trend.
Anecdotes are not evidence.  Your argument is, at best, a fatuous  
straw

man and at worst, utterly paranoid.

Can you provide any evidence -- anything at all -- that proves that  
"UCD

would have been all
over it as yet another example of why we can't live without them  
taxing

us"?]

What about any evidence that "UCD has built up the belief that we  
would

be overrun by crime, and that only
they can "protect" us from it"?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:07 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCit

RE: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Kyle Cassidy]

I might not be getting all the literature, but I can't think of a single
_specific_ crime that has ever been mentioned by UCD apart from the
announcement that they were improving the soil along the Vladimir Sled
Memorial beds in Clark Park. 



>Karen said "Had it been a stranger that committed that crime, UCD 
>would have been all over it." I take that she meant that UCD would 
>have used the news in their own correspondence and marketing, trying 
>to win over those BID hold-outs. The media attention is a different
issue.


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 2/1/2007 2:36:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I might  not be getting all the literature, but I can't think of a single
_specific_  crime that has ever been mentioned by UCD apart from the
announcement that  they were improving the soil along the Vladimir Sled
Memorial beds in Clark  Park. 


I believe what she was referring to was things like the $5 MM program  
(funded by Penn but with UCD all over it) to put in new streetlights as an  
over-reaction to a few street crimes right adjacent to campus. A misguided bit  
of 
propaganda, it turns out, because -- as the head of the University's own  
Center 
for Criminology (Lawrence Sherman) pointed out in a published study a few  
years back, evidence is strong that lighting has an effect on the perception of 
 
safety but is lacking on whether it actually deters crime (that is,  some 
studies suggest that it does, others suggest that it doesn't, and a few  even 
suggest that it may serve a facilitating rather than a debilitating  role).
 
What UCD does is jump on instances of crime opportunistically to tout its  
banal, expensive, and somewhat unfounded "safe streets" activities.  

Al  Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny ®

Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!

[Anthony West]

If we include self-abuse, University City's stats will wipe every other 
neighborhood in Philadelphia off the map of Serious Offenses.

-- Tony West
  - Original Message - 
  From: Frank 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC] Violent Penn Students: Save Us, UCD!!!


  If we include underage drinking, the number of Penn offenders will go WAY up, 
too.


  Frank