Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
hungarianhc;495737 Wrote: Here's a temporary solution... I have my music folder rsync'd onto a USB drive that is attached to my sheevaplug, and I was having the same problem as you, where SB Server could not see any of the music. I ran the following command on my music folder: chmod 777 -R music-folder/ So this pretty much makes the file / directory wide open, permissions wise. It seems to be working though. The only bummer is that I plan on getting the rsync to run nightly to update music on the device, and one of the beauties of rsync is that i only syncs files that have been modified or changed. I'm wondering now after doing this big chmod if all of the files are going to be re-written next time I do an rsync. So at least I have my music playing throughout the apartment on my SB Radio. That's a relief, but this isn't a very elegant solution. So I'm hoping someone can find me a better one soon! Thanks! Unfortunately this won't work for mine as the permissions are locked. Amusingly enough it's only the directories that aren't given group/world permissions as all the files are 777! Code: chmod 755 directoryname does nothing to the directory itself! That's also the reason why the adding the sbs user to a group doesn't work, the directories have no group permissions therefore only root and the user can see the folders :( -- probedb 'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb) probedb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7825 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
That's not how Unix permissions work. root installed apache2... but it is owned by www-data. My understanding is that indeed you should never, ever do anything as root. There are several system folders that are and should be locked for any user other than root on the system, for good reasons. And no human user should be root. Ever. I have not advocated anywhere messing around with root, quite the contrary, the fact that in thne end we are forced to dabble around with gksudo nautilus (or as yours may go) shows that there is something broken with the way it is implemented anyhow, because you force users into a basic violation of your sacred security policy to get a plain vanilla system going. What I stated was something different: let us say user (or let us say account) pablo is the main admin with the most privileges on a machine (mind you, he'd still never get access to root according to Ubuntu policies, in theory, but of course we know that is only a gksudo command away. The account maps to a user ID which belongs to a group. If user/account pablo installs SBS, the account/group's privileges should be propagated to the installed software automatically. It does not make sense to do it any other way. If my account can access a USB drive, the software I install should be able to access that drive too. Anything else it utterly unintuitive. SBS's installation from a .deb has no clue where your music library is. That is set by the user later, It should not willy-nilly be guessing oh, you have an external USB drive,let me change permissions on it! There is a big difference with configuration of settings (which naturally the user must do) and access to system resources. When a user installs a software package, the software package should have access to the resources the user has naturally access to. There is no added security in that. It's just inconvenient and utterly user unfriendly. That would be a huge violation of debian security policy I do not believe that. The security policy is concerned with protecting root directories, for very good reason. A user installed USB drive is not a protected resource. If and when a root directory exists on the USB drive, then by all means that can (and is) protected. But anything I as a user mount to my /home/media...whatever, it should be there for every application I have the right to start. Anything else is confusing and simply not an intuitive security policy. The whole idea of Linux security is to protect root resources from malicious (or unintentional) attack. That principle is not violated by propagating user access rights to resources to software those users install, since in Ubuntu they are not root in any normal operation (it seems you run your system differently, and more power to you, mind you). -- pablolie ...pablo Server: Shuttle X27D - Ubuntu 8.04LTS - SBS 7.4.1 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet (1), Accuphase DP65v CD Amplifier: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
snarlydwarf;495888 Wrote: I would agree that the pretty UI that Ubuntu insists on giving you is broken: it should be possible to mount an external drive as part of the boot process. For some things, you may just have to break down and do it by hand, though, I don't use ntfs so no interest in figuring out how to make it behave correctly with permissions, which is your problem. Then kindly leave this thread as that's it's entire point or I'm going to ask a mod to lock it! -- probedb 'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb) probedb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7825 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
pablolie;495882 Wrote: My understanding is that indeed you should never, ever do anything as root. There are several system folders that are and should be locked for any user other than root on the system, for good reasons. Oversimplistic view. I have a dozen web/mail/svn/firewalls and such and am routinely root. It is difficult to change configurations when you're not root. (And, again, these are servers: X as root is bad.. an xterm as root is not. They don't even have X installed on them.) gksudo, sudo, su, whatever.. they all make you root. And no human user should be root. Ever. I have not advocated anywhere messing around with root, quite the contrary, the fact that in thne end we are forced to dabble around with gksudo nautilus (or as yours may go) shows that there is something broken with the way it is implemented anyhow, because you force users into a basic violation of your sacred security policy to get a plain vanilla system going. I would agree that the pretty UI that Ubuntu insists on giving you is broken: it should be possible to mount an external drive as part of the boot process. For some things, you may just have to break down and do it by hand, though, I don't use ntfs so no interest in figuring out how to make it behave correctly with permissions, which is your problem. What I stated was something different: let us say user (or let us say account) pablo is the main admin with the most privileges on a machine (mind you, he'd still never get access to root according to Ubuntu policies, in theory, but of course we know that is only a gksudo command away. The account maps to a user ID which belongs to a group. If user/account pablo installs SBS, the account/group's privileges should be propagated to the installed software automatically. It does not make sense to do it any other way. If my account can access a USB drive, the software I install should be able to access that drive too. Anything else it utterly unintuitive. And I disagree: SBS has its own user id so that YOU can tell it what files it may access. There is a big difference with configuration of settings (which naturally the user must do) and access to system resources. When a user installs a software package, the software package should have access to the resources the user has naturally access to. There is no added security in that. It's just inconvenient and utterly user unfriendly. So when i, as 'bem' install apache, apache should have access to all my files? I think not. I do not believe that. The security policy is concerned with protecting root directories, for very good reason. A user installed USB drive is not a protected resource. If and when a root directory exists on the USB drive, then by all means that can (and is) protected. But anything I as a user mount to my /home/media...whatever, it should be there for every application I have the right to start. Anything else is confusing and simply not an intuitive security policy. Then you have a beef with Ubuntu which is setting that permission. The whole idea of Linux security is to protect root resources from malicious (or unintentional) attack. That principle is not violated by propagating user access rights to resources to software those users install, since in Ubuntu they are not root in any normal operation (it seems you run your system differently, and more power to you, mind you). Wrong: it also involves protecting users from accessing other users files except when desired and keeping processes contained so that they do not easily violate rules and leak information from one user to another or to the network. Not every desktop machine has a single login. I have machines with -thousands- of logins, and making sure that 'jsmith' does not read the email of 'jdoe' is crucial. Ensuring they do not read or write each others web pages is critical. In a 'desktop' configuration, perhaps it is okay to do what you wish, but that, again, is a matter for Ubuntu. SBS does -NOT- mount your drive, it does NOT enforce permissions on your drive: the kernel does, and it does so with the guidance that Ubuntu has when seeing new removable media. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
probedb;495890 Wrote: Then kindly leave this thread as that's it's entire point or I'm going to ask a mod to lock it! No don't lock it, please! I use EXT2 for my external drives, but this is valuable conversation!!! Have we figured out a best practice solution btw? I really hate my implementation of chmod'ing the files. Is there an fstab setting that will make everything all better? -- hungarianhc 'Howto: Building a squeezebox server for under $100!' (http://www.crazyhawt.com/2009/11/23/howto-building-a-squeezebox-server-for-under-100-yes-it-can-be-done/) hungarianhc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
probedb wrote: snarlydwarf;495888 Wrote: I would agree that the pretty UI that Ubuntu insists on giving you is broken: it should be possible to mount an external drive as part of the boot process. For some things, you may just have to break down and do it by hand, though, I don't use ntfs so no interest in figuring out how to make it behave correctly with permissions, which is your problem. Then kindly leave this thread as that's it's entire point or I'm going to ask a mod to lock it! You don't like his answers and you want him to leave? I'm missing something here. @snarly is explaining security considerations that have been developed over 30 to 40 years. You don't like them, and want to limit his speach? Others may be interested in his explanations. While @snarly is talking about Debian and @probedb is talking about Ubuntu, the simple fact is that Ubuntu is Debian with some user friendly stuff. Perhaps Logitech should actively release code separately for Debian and Ubuntu, but I don't expect that to ever happen. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
hungarianhc wrote: I really hate my implementation of chmod'ing the files. Is there an fstab setting that will make everything all better? fstab is pretty much unrelated to chmod. You should not have to do it more than once in a lifetime, if Logitech would stop renaming the server software and changing the userid that the daemon runs as. What don't you like about issuing one recursive chmod in the lifetime of a disk drive? And even when Logitect makes life harder for us, its usually fixable with a recursive chown -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
pfarrell;495905 Wrote: What don't you like about issuing one recursive chmod in the lifetime of a disk drive? I use rsync to keep my music in sync. I believe that running a recursive chmod will modify the files, and rsync will then overwrite them again, and I'll be back where I started again. Right? -- hungarianhc 'Howto: Building a squeezebox server for under $100!' (http://www.crazyhawt.com/2009/11/23/howto-building-a-squeezebox-server-for-under-100-yes-it-can-be-done/) hungarianhc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33752 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
probedb;495890 Wrote: Then kindly leave this thread as that's it's entire point or I'm going to ask a mod to lock it! If Ubuntu is dumb when it mounts removable NTFS drives, then this is entirely the wrong place to take that up. Ubuntu has their own forums. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
hungarianhc wrote: pfarrell;495905 Wrote: What don't you like about issuing one recursive chmod in the lifetime of a disk drive? I use rsync to keep my music in sync. I believe that running a recursive chmod will modify the files, and rsync will then overwrite them again, and I'll be back where I started again. Right? I don't know, but it would be easy to test. I think rsync uses a md5sum or shasum rather than just looking at the ownership/premissions. While I use rsync fairly heavily, I don't change ownership. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Process that shows SBS is active ?
Lookup the srvPowerControl Plugin thread in 3rd Party forums. It has a lot of features, and you can mix and match with your other power management routines. -- epoch1970 epoch1970's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16711 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72608 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
i truly did not intend to side-track this thread with anything that resembles OS religion. however i do think that something like trying to use SBS brings to light the issues with the different user friendly Linux distros, that's all. i shall not perpetuate the OS philosophy aspect of the topic. I just will recommend anyone in any release dealing with USB drives in Ubuntu check for the ntfs settings app and look in the Ubuntu Forums for discussions on it. -- pablolie ...pablo Server: Shuttle X27D - Ubuntu 8.04LTS - SBS 7.4.1 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet (1), Accuphase DP65v CD Amplifier: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
snarlydwarf;495888 Wrote: SBS does -NOT- mount your drive, it does NOT enforce permissions on your drive: the kernel does, and it does so with the guidance that Ubuntu has when seeing new removable media. I will keep this short - SBS should not mount my drive and I have never claimed I expect it to. *I* already did. Then I install SBS. It is an application, a group, whatever you call it it is *not* a human user, and if I install it my privileges should propagate - and *that* truly is the Unix philosophy. As a user I can not go above my privileges (which in Ubuntu world in theory means root level, somewhat flawed as I have *always* claimed that philosophy is), and in Unix always meant that everything I install gets my privileges - no more, no less. That is the whole philosophy of access rights and security policies. -- pablolie ...pablo Server: Shuttle X27D - Ubuntu 8.04LTS - SBS 7.4.1 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet (1), Accuphase DP65v CD Amplifier: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] SCC 7.4.1 can't see my USB drives?
pablolie;496052 Wrote: and in Unix always meant that everything I install gets my privileges - no more, no less. That is the whole philosophy of access rights and security policies. Apache does not get your privileges. MySQL does not (try 'select into outfile' type things with it...). Server processes usually have their own user id so that the user may choose what permissions to allow that process. SBS is a server process, started as a daemon when no user is logged in. How many programs in /etc/init.d (or whatever Ubuntu did with that..) run as you, and how many run as their own user id or root? It is -far- more akin to Apache or MySQL than it is to an application that -would- run under your user id. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71700 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
[SlimDevices: Unix] New Install of Squeezebox server
I using Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy with eBox 1.2.2-9, I had no issues with the Squeezeboxserver last time around. I did a fresh server install and like wise for Squeezeboxserver, it's running according to ps aux | grep squeezeboxserver Problem being that I can't connect via Hostname, IP Address or Domain Name and I was able to before this update? The Softsqueeze player just says connecting and nothing. Is there a list of command line options I can use to determine what the issue is? r...@dragon-server:/etc/dansguardian# ps aux | grep squeezeboxserver 125 11575 0.0 0.0 3248 1500 ? S 17:59 0:00 /bin/bash /usr/sbin/squeezeboxserver_safe /usr/sbin/squeezeboxserver --prefsdir /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/prefs --logdir /var/log/squeezeboxserver/ --cachedir /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache --charset=utf8 125 11614 0.2 1.5 57588 55088 ? S 17:59 0:01 /usr/bin/perl -w /usr/sbin/squeezeboxserver --prefsdir /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/prefs --logdir /var/log/squeezeboxserver/ --cachedir /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache --charset=utf8 125 11782 0.0 0.3 96048 13688 ? Sl 17:59 0:00 /usr/sbin/mysqld --defaults-file=/var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/my.cnf root 11916 0.0 0.0 3004 752 pts/0 R+ 18:10 0:00 grep squeezeboxserver Edit/Delete Message -- VaineDragon VaineDragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34412 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72676 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] How do I delay Squeezebox Server startup till after network connects
Adding sleep 10 to a startup script (rc.local in my case) will delay execution for 10 seconds. -- llin llin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3968 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72283 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
