date:20160228

> BR wrote:
> This could work for me also. I think that we are talking about
> Javascript interactions ... 

It's all said, but not yet by all ... ;-)

"Es ist schon alles gesagt, nur noch nicht von allen."
(Karl Valentin)

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Re: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?

2016-02-28 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami

This could work for me also. I think that we are talking about Javascript 
interactions.

I use MediaElements JS framework on our web site...  

(http://mediaelementjs.com/)  

and really like it for lots of reasons.  

I have actually toyed with creating some JS controls of a video instantiated on 
the page with Media elements and it works.  

You can see how simple the JS api is:  

http://mediaelementjs.com/#api  

So, perhaps the question(s) become  

1) Is there a way can bind JS execution to Livecode controls in a stack that we 
export to html5?  

2) is that execution sandboxed/encapsulated within the enscripten "scope" ?  

I suspect not... ergo, if the head of your HTML documents calls query + media 
elements, then theoretically if your html stack has a button that can execute 
(for example)  

function (mediaElement, domObject) {  

mediaElement.addEventListener('timeupdate', function(e) {  
document.getElementById('current-time').innerHTML = mediaElement.currentTime;  
}, false);

mediaElement.play();  
}
});

and you have the media element above or below your "stack" then it could work.  

Design-wise though... I'm not sure how you can get you player/controller to fit 
nicely on the canvas (page rect) relative to the stack. 

You can see media elements in action here and the HS and html elements are 
there..check the source on this page (all generated with LC+RevIgniter...)

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/looklisten/chanting-songs

Line 335 has the page element...which could live above or below the HTML5 
created by LC... then we would need to be able to fire the littls script you 
see starting on line 341... from within the exported LC stack

BR

On February 28, 2016 at 4:56:47 AM, Martin Koob 
(mk...@rogers.com(mailto:mk...@rogers.com)) wrote:

> I am interested in the idea Scott proposed. I am wondering specifically if
> you could make a LiveCode HTML5 standalone on a page that could control the
> playback of a different 
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Re: Cursor changes to a hand in the ide


On 02/28/2016 08:08 PM, Jim Byrnes wrote:


OK, thanks, just changed it.  Curious that they are cut off for you, as
I am running linux and I can see them fine. Actually about an inch of
blank space after each caption.


I just filed a bug on this. It's only for LC8. LC7 and below are fine. 
Changing the font for the preferences panel from 13 point down to 12 
fixes it.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Cursor changes to a hand in the ide

2016-02-28 Thread Jim Byrnes


On 02/28/2016 09:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 02/28/2016 07:20 PM, Jim Byrnes wrote:


Finally had time to give this a try and it is exactly what I was trying
to accomplish.  I am still learning how to work with the ide.  Once I
had the group set up, at first I couldn't figure out how to make any
changes to it, but finally figured it out.


Yes, I think working with groups is one of the less intuitive things
about the environment. Feel free to post more questions - things take a
bit of getting used to.

I forgot to mention when I posted that there's a preference setting (the
top item under General) labeled "Property labels are:" and the default
is something like "Description of option" (can't really tell because
it's cut off on linux)... I have it changed to the other option, which
is probably "Name of LiveCode property", and things will no doubt make
more sense if you change your setting as well.



OK, thanks, just changed it.  Curious that they are cut off for you, as 
I am running linux and I can see them fine. Actually about an inch of 
blank space after each caption.


Regards,  Jim


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Re: Cursor changes to a hand in the ide


On 02/28/2016 07:20 PM, Jim Byrnes wrote:


Finally had time to give this a try and it is exactly what I was trying
to accomplish.  I am still learning how to work with the ide.  Once I
had the group set up, at first I couldn't figure out how to make any
changes to it, but finally figured it out.


Yes, I think working with groups is one of the less intuitive things 
about the environment. Feel free to post more questions - things take a 
bit of getting used to.


I forgot to mention when I posted that there's a preference setting (the 
top item under General) labeled "Property labels are:" and the default 
is something like "Description of option" (can't really tell because 
it's cut off on linux)... I have it changed to the other option, which 
is probably "Name of LiveCode property", and things will no doubt make 
more sense if you change your setting as well.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Cursor changes to a hand in the ide

2016-02-28 Thread Jim Byrnes


On 02/25/2016 05:33 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 02/25/2016 02:42 PM, Jim Byrnes wrote:


The other environments I have used had a control that was essentially a
box with a border around it. At the left end of the top border you could
embed a label in the border itself. You could then drop other controls
inside the box. It just called attention to certain controls.

I didn't see anything like that in Livecode and was experimenting to see
if I could create the effect.


Good. That's what I thought you were trying to accomplish.
With LiveCode that's done with a group. Try this:

create a new stack
drop a label field onto the stack
drop a couple of radio buttons onto the stack

now shift-click or drag the cursor to select them
from the Object menu select "Group Selected"
  (or just press control-G)

you'll probably want to fiddle with the visual aspects of the group:
double-click or right-click on one of the controls
  to bring up the property inspector
check 'showBorder'
enter a label for the group
check the unfortunately-named 'showName'



Mark,

Finally had time to give this a try and it is exactly what I was trying 
to accomplish.  I am still learning how to work with the ide.  Once I 
had the group set up, at first I couldn't figure out how to make any 
changes to it, but finally figured it out.


Thanks,  Jim


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Re: Possible enhancement


On 02/28/2016 08:07 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:


At the moment, I need to tag my "end repeat"s as you do here; even better
would be "end repeat looppyloop", so that mismatches would throw errors.


I like that as well - it makes a complete set.

And tagging the "end repeat"s that way is especially useful for long 
repeat loops because the indentation level isn't always obvious. But I'm 
a bit overzealous about this and I tend to label my "end switch" and 
"end if" statements the same way if they're long enough.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Possible enhancement


On 02/28/2016 10:34 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

I use a true/false flag which has to be checked at each control structure
level. As far as I know, that's the only way, but maybe not...


Yeah, I think setting/checking a semaphore is the workaround. But every 
time I have to use a semaphore I think it's a kludge because of a 
missing feature.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LiveCode for Educators (was LiveCode for the Hobbyists)

2016-02-28 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 2/28/2016 9:07 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

The old RevOnline/User Samples was an attempt at this, but most
people these days are used to using a browser to download files and
resources. That has the added advantage of showing up in Google
searches. Edinburgh really should set up a webpage on the home site
that incorporates an upload system


The user samples are already online, it just needs some enhancement (and 
probably a server move): http://revonline2.runrev.com/


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread stephen barncard

And of course the Apple  'App Store' for the desktop is highly over-rated
and has benefits for the developer and end user if avoided.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami <
bra...@hindu.org> wrote:

> The "Hobbyist" using the community version cannot deploy on the App Store.




Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread Tore Nilsen


> 28. feb. 2016 kl. 19.11 skrev Robert Mann :
> 
> Use open sourced for in house commercial application! whouaou!! 
> that does not really sound very open source.. kind of twisting the game in
> way.

This is where I think you get open source wrong. Open source does not mean non 
commercial. It is totally in line with the licence to develop commercial 
applications with the community version of LiveCode. Open source only means 
that you can not lock in the source code for your program. 

If you think that you need to protect your source code, you then need to deploy 
it with an indy or business version of LiveCode. The good thing about the 
community version is that you may well use it to develop your application, and 
you do not have to buy an indy or business version until you think you have an 
application worth protecting.

You then open the stack you created in community version with your new version 
of LiveCode, set the password to protect the code and deploy it to whatever 
platform you like. And to be fair, if you think that your application has any 
financial meritt, the cost of an Indy version should not frighten anyone from 
paying for it. If your application is not going to generate more than the cost 
of the indy version, then you probably should not bother bringing it to the 
market. 

I can see how it would come in handy, also for hobbies to be able to lock down 
their applications from time to time. However, in order for LiveCode as a 
company, to make enough money to support the development of LiveCode, they need 
to make a clear distinction between free versions of LiveCode and payed version 
of the application.

In order to shoehorn in a version of LiveCode between community and indy, they 
would seriously need to cripple the community version. As it is today, with 
LiveCode 8 you get more functionality in the community version, as you can 
deploy to html5, without paying anything. Developers with an Indy version would 
need to pay an extra $499 to deploy to html5. 

Regards 

Tore Nilsen
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

Yes Richmond, we're in exactly the same boat.

Use open sourced for in house commercial application! whouaou!!
that does not really sound very open source.. kind of twisting the game in
way.
if you (I) sideways use that for business, I would prefer to chunk in just a
few more bucks in to have latest developments that can (eventually!??) win
some time (although.. that remains to be seen!)
And that is the whole point we made about the hobbyist use :: it could get
some money for mothership and let us move as slowly as you seem to move
(smile.. version 4.5!!!)

of course Communty version is fantastic for any education purpose.. not a
single doubt.

And now, for next version of devawriter, will you pay up 1000€ for the
newest version?
let us know!

Last : about being fussy about code protection, taking a step back, the
whole point is whether it is a good thing in practice to do completely away
with our centuries long copyright/droit d'auteur principles, or not.

it seemed a good principle, but it may not actually be a good thing in the
long run.

For instance with the new possibilities of micro-payments, it may very well
turn out that preserving rights and encouraging quality/retribution of some
work "put out in the commons" can be very positive factor leading to better
quality contributions.

In a few words, YES, Community Version is fantastic for =
-- structure contributor, people who engage in developing the tool and
actively share libraries and so on,
-- lonely self centric hobbyists who play around in close circle and
eventually make good use of the tools to run their business (nothing
personal really.. just a point)

But there maybe IS (??) some other kind of potential contributions that in
the existing framework do not find their place. And possibly these
contributions could actually help in the education field.

Say :: you teacher develop a eerie of exercises to teach maths. Fine, it
does take time. You do a lot of them. Some day you think it is a good idea
to put them all together and eventually sell the whole lot.; to schools,
(for which in france at least there are some budgets).
You used community version.. tricky! Maybe looses motivation after a while.
You bought a 1000 dollars yearly license.. during 10 years, that was a bold
move!
You had a true Indy-hobbist that all in all cost you 100 dollars per year,
you'r OK and you kept your motivation.

Now multiply that by a few.???

it may be that this few is too few. and that would explain the move towards
a professionalisation of the closed live code tool. But that is a major
move for a few of us. I'm not weening and I fully accept it, but better say
loud and clear what IS happening.

--
View this message in context:
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LiveCode-for-the-Hobbyists-tp4701530p4701626.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread Ludovic Thebault

On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 11:32:45 -0700, Roger Guay wrote:
> Excellent point! What would you think about an inexpensive LC license 
> for non-profits and free apps?


I dream of that !

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Re: Possible enhancement

2016-02-28 Thread Peter Haworth

I use a true/false flag which has to be checked at each control structure
level. As far as I know, that's the only way, but maybe not...

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016, 9:37 AM [-hh]  wrote:

> >> Peter H. wrote:
> >> The php break statement has a numeric argument that defines how many
> >> control structures to break out off  I sometimes find myself in 3 or 4
> >> nested repeat statements and need to get out of the whole structure if a
> >> particular condition is met in one of the inner structures.
> >> The default would be 1 so no existing code would be affected.
> >> Worth an enhancement request?
> >
> > Mark Wi. wrote:
> > What I'd rather see, and I think Robert Calliau has suggested this
> > before, is the ability to have named loops. Then you could exit from a
> > loop by specifying its name.
> >
> > Dr. Ha. wrote:
> > Yes; this is how modern Fortran does it.
>
> Worth an enhancement request? Of course, both variants would be valuable.
>
> I wonder which "workaround" you use until now for that in LC?
>
> hh
>
>
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread Roger Guay

Excellent point! What would you think about an inexpensive LC license for 
non-profits and free apps?

Roger


> On Feb 28, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> Just to throw in two mangoes from Hawaii
> 
> Matt.. there is also the unspoken "Apple Policy" problem.
> 
> The "Hobbyist" using the community version cannot deploy on the App Store.
> 
> This kind of throws an rusty wrench into what would otherwise be "all good"  
> overall picture.
> 
> But we cannot put that on LiveCode policy
> 
> .. and Apple is only just continuing to drive developers away...
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> On February 28, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM, RM 
> (richmondmathew...@gmail.com) wrote:
> 
> Matt Maier wrote:
>> I'm still not clear on how the community edition of Livecode isn't
>> sufficient for hobby purposes.
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami

Just to throw in two mangoes from Hawaii

Matt.. there is also the unspoken "Apple Policy" problem.

The "Hobbyist" using the community version cannot deploy on the App Store.

This kind of throws an rusty wrench into what would otherwise be "all good"  
overall picture.

But we cannot put that on LiveCode policy

.. and Apple is only just continuing to drive developers away...

BR

On February 28, 2016 at 7:39:29 AM, RM 
(richmondmathew...@gmail.com) wrote:

Matt Maier wrote:
> I'm still not clear on how the community edition of Livecode isn't
> sufficient for hobby purposes.
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Re: LiveCode for the Hobbyists

2016-02-28 Thread RM

The Community version is 100% fantastic for hobbyists as well as anyone 
else who isn't fussed

about protecting their code.

I use the Community version on a daily basis to develop software for my 
business, where code
 protection is not an issue; I also use a commercial version (4.5) to 
develop software where
I want my code protected, and when I feel that Livecode has features to 
offer in later versions vis-a-vis my commercial stuff (Devawriter Pro) I 
shall purchase a commercial version.


I also use the Community version to teach programming to school 
children, who develop "silly little games" they exchange with each 
other, while having absolutely no commercial value whatsoever,
they do stop kids mindlessly playing side-scrollers and get them writing 
them, and in the process
learning an awful lot of useful problem-solving skills that are directly 
transferrable to many walks of life.


Richmond.

On 27.02.2016 01:36, Matt Maier wrote:

I'm still not clear on how the community edition of Livecode isn't
sufficient for hobby purposes. It's got tons of functionality, and it's
free, and the main restriction is that anything you distribute has to be
licensed GPL. But, if you're a hobbyist, and not charging for what you
distribute, why would you need to close the source?

If you just want to help support Livecode with money you can always donate
to them, or you could publicize your cool projects to get more visibility
for Livecode and more developers to try it. In fact, distributing
interesting projects open source is a great way to get more developers to
try Livecode. Whereas paying Livecode a modest subscription, so that you
can distributed closed source, doesn't help nearly as much.



On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 2:58 PM, [-hh]  wrote:


Really good points, Roland.

Let me add explicitly this one.

Build on the next generation, who will become decision maker in a few
years. And, if they *know* the software, may also become possible
buyers of LC-related products:
Give teachers and their students in class FREE copies.
Give university students and hobbyists very cheap copies.

If the company continues to have such crazy pricing strategies as now
then it will loose in sum: The negative income by people "jumping off"
will be greater than the additional positive income by raised prices.

For example I went with backing nearly everything in the last three
years already over my limits: An Indy license, a community membership
(who of the writers here has also one?), an additional HTML5 license,
a lot of time wasted for beta-testing. I'm hobbyist, sell nothing ...

The next "pricing game" will force me to jump off. And jumping off will
mean to jump off by 100%, in anger, not only partially.

And certainly I'm not the only one who works for no money, pays only
to support LC. The current pricing strategy becomes aggressive against
this group of users.



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Re: Possible enhancement

>> Peter H. wrote:
>> The php break statement has a numeric argument that defines how many
>> control structures to break out off  I sometimes find myself in 3 or 4
>> nested repeat statements and need to get out of the whole structure if a
>> particular condition is met in one of the inner structures.
>> The default would be 1 so no existing code would be affected.
>> Worth an enhancement request?
> 
> Mark Wi. wrote:
> What I'd rather see, and I think Robert Calliau has suggested this 
> before, is the ability to have named loops. Then you could exit from a 
> loop by specifying its name.
> 
> Dr. Ha. wrote:
> Yes; this is how modern Fortran does it.

Worth an enhancement request? Of course, both variants would be valuable.

I wonder which "workaround" you use until now for that in LC?

hh


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Re: Possible enhancement

2016-02-28 Thread Dr. Hawkins

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> What I'd rather see, and I think Robert Calliau has suggested this before,
> is the ability to have named loops. Then you could exit from a loop by
> specifying its name.
>

Yes; this is how modern Fortran does it.

It has the advantage over "break 3" that if you add or eliminate a loop, it
an still exit the intended loop.

At the moment, I need to tag my "end repeat"s as you do here; even better
would be "end repeat looppyloop", so that mismatches would throw errors.

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Possible enhancement

2016-02-28 Thread Peter M. Brigham

+1

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Feb 27, 2016, at 4:21 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 02/27/2016 12:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
> 
>> Worth an enhancement request?
> 
> What I'd rather see, and I think Robert Calliau has suggested this before, is 
> the ability to have named loops. Then you could exit from a loop by 
> specifying its name.
> 
> repeat . as outerLoop
> repeat. as loopyLoop
>repeat. as innerLoop
>   if  then exit loopyLoop
>end repeat -- end of innerLoop
> end repeat -- end of loopyLoop
> -- after the 'exit loopyLoop' the script continues here
> end repeat -- end of outerLoop

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Request for Bids on Site Upgrade

2016-02-28 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami

Aloha, LiveCoders:

Anyone here who has experience with

Boot Strap
LC Server/RevIgniter
Responsive Mobile Design
Word Press.

Please contact me off list to discuss working for us/your fees/time/ 
availability

 to help get

www.himalayanacademy.com

 over to a mobile/responsive state.

The HTML is pretty much "pure semantic" xhtml... so, in theory, we only need to 
work on the look and feel - CSS.

Of course, it's always more than that... but hopefully not too difficult

Please include your experience and some reference to sites which you were 
responsible for implementing

Brahmanathaswami



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Re: LiveCode for Educators (was LiveCode for the Hobbyists)

2016-02-28 Thread Peter M. Brigham

LC has long been plagued with a multiplicity of source sites for LC 
stacks/applications/resources. There needs to be a central repository for all 
these. The old RevOnline/User Samples was an attempt at this, but most people 
these days are used to using a browser to download files and resources. That 
has the added advantage of showing up in Google searches. Edinburgh really 
should set up a webpage on the home site that incorporates an upload system 
requiring the user to name and describe the stack/app to be uploaded and 
specify the LC version and licensing/distribution constraints (from freeware to 
GPL all the way to commercial/protected). It is central to the company's 
interest to showcase the full panoply of what LC can do, and it is in the 
user-base interest to have one central repository for available resources.

IMO this deserves to have a high priority.

I was going to suggest linking to a repository from the case studies page at 
LC, but "LiveCode stories" seems to be the current iteration of this, and when 
I click on that link on the LC homepage I get an empty webpage. (OTOH, my 
Firefox browser has been acting a little squirrelly lately.)

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

On Feb 27, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote:

> 
>> 27. feb. 2016 kl. 21.51 skrev Richard Gaskin :
>> 
>> What could happen if we change "LiveCode" there to "we”?
>> 
>> The company has many deep technical obligations to complete, and education 
>> is an area that really needs the insights of education specialists to guide 
>> it.
>> 
>> And since we're talking about things that would be scripted, who better to 
>> do that than educators who script?
>> 
>> How shall we proceed with identifying the tools and other resources we need 
>> to fulfill the vision you've outlined here?
>> 
>> We set up a section of the forums for educational outreach:
>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=107 
>> 
>> 
>> I would encourage you to consider posting your thoughts there, and let's see 
>> if we can put together a team and make it happen.
> 
> 
> I do agree that this is a kind of task where we, as educators and users of 
> LiveCode should do the actual work. However, I think it is vitally important 
> that the outcome of such a process has an active backing from the company, 
> and this was my reason for using the phrase I did. I fully accept the 
> challenges and obligations that LiveCode as a company has to meet, and I also 
> see much of this and the effort that has been done in the last couple of 
> years as key to any success in the education sector.
> 
> I will post my thoughts in the forums, and I will also encourage others who 
> work in education to take part in discussions about what we can do to help 
> put LiveCode in the hands of more teachers and students. I will also try to 
> come up with suggestions for tools and resources I personally will find 
> useful, and hope others will as well. It may be helpful to share different 
> national and local curriculums, in order to identify useful resources and 
> common approaches to different parts of said curriculums.
> 
> One thing I really would hope LiveCode will do, is to find room for this as a 
> part of the program for the conference in Edinburgh in August. I have already 
> registered and will attend. If there is anything I can do to help facilitate 
> this, I am more than happy to do so. 
> 
> Regards
> Tore N
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Re: Min function

Hi Thierry,

I have to correct my remark:
At first, case 2 will loose some merits, because after the first replace
linesOfNumbers is already a comma separated list and remains that.

We should write it like that?
-- case 2
  repeat nRepeat
put LinesOfNumbers into nn
replace return with comma in nn
put min(nn)  into min2
  end repeat

I also found, that sorting is best in LC 7/8:
-- case 4
  repeat nRepeat
put LinesOfNumbers into nn
sort nn numeric
put line 1 of nn into min4
  end repeat

The results here (what a difference between versions ...)

version: replaceText - replace - min() - sort

6.7.9: Done in 0.32 - 0.07 - 0.06 - 0.18
7.1.2: Done in 1.97 - 4.83 - 1.55 - 0.95 
8.0.0: Done in 2.09 - 4.89 - 2.89 - 1.00

Tested with (your slightly modified script):

on mouseUp
  repeat with i=1 to 1000
get random( 1000)
put IT & cr after LinesOfNumbers
put IT & comma after OneLineOfNumbers
put IT into b[i]
  end repeat
  delete last char of LinesOfNumbers
  delete last char of OneLineOfNumbers
  put 100 into nRepeat
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 1
  repeat nRepeat
put min( replaceText( LinesOfNumbers, return,comma))  into min1
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing1
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 2
  repeat nRepeat
put LinesOfNumbers into nn
replace return with comma in nn
put min(nn) into min2
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing2
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 3
  repeat nRepeat
put min( OneLineOfNumbers) into min3
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing3
  wait 1 ticks with messages
  put the milliseconds into _ct
  -- case 4
  repeat nRepeat
put LinesOfNumbers into nn
sort nn numeric
put line 1 of nn into min4
  end repeat
  put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing4
  put format( "Done in %.2f - %.2f -  %.2f -  %.2f %s %s %s %s", \
timing1,  timing2, timing3, timing4, min1 is min3, min2 is min3, min4 
is min3) into fld 1
end mouseUp



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Re: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?

2016-02-28 Thread Martin Koob

I am interested in the idea Scott proposed.  I am wondering specifically if
you could make a LiveCode HTML5 standalone on a page that could control the
playback of a different  element on the same page with the media api
and have access to the media events sent from that video.

http://www.w3.org/2010/05/video/mediaevents.html

Martin Koob


Scott Rossi wrote
> Two qualifications: I haven't followed this thread closely, and I haven't
> played a great deal with the HTML5 build.  That said, does an HTML5
> standalone have the ability to interact with the HTML of the surrounding
> page?
> 
> If yes, it would seem to be relatively straightforward to do what most
> HTML apps do, which is displaying video content in an iFrame, or embedded
> video on the same page.  Perhaps this is even how player support will
> eventually by provided by the LiveCode guys.  But if you need a solution
> now, maybe this route is an option.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/6/16, 7:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami"
> <

> use-livecode-bounces@.runrev

>  on behalf of 

> brahma@

> >
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>Are players expected to work in HTML5? I created a really simple stack
>>with a button to fetch a remobe URL to an MP3 file, set the filename of a
>>player on the card to that URL and start playing.
>>
>>really simple works on desktop like a charm.
>>
>>Fails in HTML5 standalone made with LC 8dp14
>>
>>I already bug reported this, but thought to ask here.
>>
>>streaming remote audio/video will be mission critical for us.
>>
>>BR
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Min function

Nice comparison.

In 8.0.0-dp15 I have here with the large example 2.13 - 4.45 -  2.90.

**So case 1 wins. Clearly.**
Interesting. And good to know.

p.s.
min and max work also on arrays containing only numbers.
Has at about the speed of case 3.

hh

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Re: Min function

2016-02-28 Thread Terence Heaford


> On 28 Feb 2016, at 12:52, Thierry Douez  wrote:
> 
> Well, as I don't know your context,
> I'm not sure if speed is really a problem here?

Speed is not important for my immediate situation finding the max and min in a 
series of numbers to generate chart axes

but as you say it could be important for someone processing a large amount of 
numbers.


Thanks for your assistance


All the best


Terry



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An open source mis-understanding!?

In earlier days, (once upon a time!!) there were people who wrote stories.
These stange "hobbits" used to buy pencils from their fellow at the local
shop.

One day, an even stranger fellows among these, told them, hey :: let's get
the pencil-ware "open sourced". it'll be free for-ever!! For-ever said all
together the hobbits? yes!!! Hobbits being (just) hobbits they all agreed.
"open sourced" just sounded like magic to the ears!

When they got their free pencil, made out of an open sourced free material
using an open sourced free process and open sourced free hands (!!) they all
smiled and went on an on writing. What a progress!!

But, as evil loves details, what they did not fully realize (it was written
in little scripts when they signed!) was that all their writings, then had
to be freely available too, to all. And so on. and so on, forever!

The most professionals of these, the hobbits professional tale-makers,
already used a much more refined type of pencil they were ok to pay a lot
more. They would sell so many tales that... oups.. sometimes there would be
nobody to buy any, but that is another story. The story is they could still
sell their tales. So in effect they just.. closed up the market! Good thing
for them!

At some point, an older hobbit story writer stood back and asked himself :
is that really what we meant? what we needed? what we wanted??

He realized that what he really wanted was just a set of improved pencils.
"open sourced" to him really meant that all "libraries" (yes pencils at that
time were made out of "modular" libraries..) that all librairies were added
freely by gifted fellows who contributed, and taught so that more could
contribute. In fact he dreamed of highly organized contributions in which
structured modular libraries were gradually built according to the most
important needs of the tale-writers company.

But the use of an improved pencil should not FORCE tale writers to give away
all rights forever on all their own writing, on all subjects matters, for
ever, just because he used that brand new pencil.

On the other hand the use of the new pencil should make it easier to
contribute intelligently to libraries, in an organized way (there is no
point in having to choose between 1000 librairies providing calendars... the
time to choose will be just about the time to write one more!)

So, that old hobbit wrote the tale you are reading, with a normal old
pencil, not with the brand new community open sourced one. So this tale is
now still "protected" by standard copyright laws. If luck turns around he
can publish this brilliant tale and enjoys the millions royalties hiw world
tour will attract.

And you can then take your chance too... and continue that same story,
stretching in into the future :: what will happen??
-- will the open sourcing idealist enforce their ideal?
-- shall the old tale writers be heard? How many of these still exist
around??
-- or will the multi-nationals professional tale writers take the lead, and
secure their market?
-- or else?? surprise!

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Re: Min function

2016-02-28 Thread Thierry Douez

2016-02-28 13:01 GMT+01:00 Terence Heaford :

> Thanks,
>
> That is a good solution which will also apply to Max.
>
> I just thought that anything that can be rolled into the engine would be
> faster and
> usually every tick/millisecond that can be gained is worth having in an
> interpreted language.
>
>
>
Well, as I don't know your context,
I'm not sure if speed is really a problem here?

Anyway, you make me feel curious about this,
and I've checked the speed against 3 variants.

First, I generated 2 lists of numbers.


   repeat with i=1 to 1000
  get random( 1000)
  put IT & cr after LinesOfNumbers
  put IT & comma after OneLineOfNumbers
   end repeat
   delete last char of LinesOfNumbers
   delete last char of OneLineOfNumbers


Then, run:



   put 100 into nRepeat

   put the milliseconds into _ct
   -- case 1
   repeat nRepeat
  put min( replaceText( LinesOfNumbers, return,comma))  into min1
   end repeat

   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing1

   wait 1 ticks with messages
   put the milliseconds into _ct

   -- case 2
   repeat nRepeat
   replace return with comma in LinesOfNumbers
  put min( LinesOfNumbers)  into min2
   end repeat

   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing2

   wait 1 ticks with messages
   put the milliseconds into _ct

   -- case 3
   repeat nRepeat
  put min( OneLineOfNumbers) into min3
   end repeat

   put (the milliseconds - _ct)  / nRepeat into timing3




   answer format( "Done in %.2f - %.2f -  %.2f  /%s",  timing1,  timing2,
timing3, min1 is min2)




Trying it few times for a list of 1000 items,

we have the winner which obviously is case 3: 1,47 ms
case 1 is 1,85 ms and case 2 is 4,5 ms.

Increase the number of items  to 1,
then you'll see much more distant results.

But now, if you 're working with a list of 10 items,
it really doesn't matter as the result are:

0,07 0,04, 0,03 ms

Hope you find this interesting.

Thierry





> > Thierry Douez  wrote:
> >
> > What about this?
> >
> > return  min( replaceText( myListOfNumbers, "\n",comma))
> >
> >
> > 2016-02-28 12:05 GMT+01:00 Terence Heaford :
> >
> >>
> >> I thought Min may work with the itemDelimiter but apparently not.
> >>
> >> Is that something that would be useful?
> >>
> >> set the itemDelimiter to return
> >>
> >> return Min (myListOfNumbers) — based on return not comma
>
-


-

Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Re: Min function

2016-02-28 Thread Terence Heaford

Thanks,

That is a good solution which will also apply to Max.

I just thought that anything that can be rolled into the engine would be faster 
and
usually every tick/millisecond that can be gained is worth having in an 
interpreted language.


Thanks again


Terry


> On 28 Feb 2016, at 11:14, Thierry Douez  wrote:
> 
> What about this?
> 
> return  min( replaceText( myListOfNumbers, "\n",comma))
> 
> 
> 2016-02-28 12:05 GMT+01:00 Terence Heaford :
> 
>> 
>> I thought Min may work with the itemDelimiter but apparently not.
>> 
>> Is that something that would be useful?
>> 
>> set the itemDelimiter to return
>> 
>> return Min (myListOfNumbers) — based on return not comma
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Re: [ANN] rsIsValid(Validation functions) library extension for LC8 and a call for contributors

2016-02-28 Thread Roland Huettmann

Dear Steve

I have been thinking about your offer, but it is not fully clear to me what
to contribute as the field of validation is a huge field in itself. I
assume that your Validation library would mainly target data validation?

As i see it, data validation is usually done on various levels, mainly on
the level of user input (representation layer), and as well on the level of
storing data in a database or elsewhere (mySQL, SQlite, text files, and
others).

*CHARACTER CHECKS*

We make sure that only those characters are entered which are allowed for
the specific field or list.

A numeric field would be constrained to the entry of numeric digits between
0-9, and possibly a minus sign and commas and dots. Depending on the
country of usage, a decimal sign can be a period or a comma. Thousand
separators also come in a variety as commas, high commas (plain
apostrophes), spaces, and dots if you go for international number formats.
The type used locally should somewhere be noted, otherwise a conversation
may lead to unexpected results. It could be marked as a custom property of
a field, and/or the plain number itself (as it is widely accepted with a
decimal point instead of a comma) may be stored as a custom property as
well.

Date representations are even varying much more. The system date gives the
local format, but there should be a representation which all machines on
all platforms allow. For a date, the international representation in the
form -MM-DD may be the common denominator which then could be
transformed into whatever a database entry may require, or the user likes
to see (system setting).

For a date we would have to check that it is also a valid date (no February
31 for example) and that characters enter are falling within range.

Then hours follow similar rules also being separated according to local
rules, but stored as international accepted HH::MM:SS with or without
leading zeros.

If it is a representation of dates then the maximum entered is 24:00. But
hours, minutes and seconds could be added or subtracted and the output
format could again vary counting in years, months, days, and so on.

There are special cases in other languages and cultural regions.

A field containing an email address follows again certain rules and must
contain one and only one "@" sign. There there is a validity check for
URLs, and if you only like to store US phone numbers, then such numbers
follow a certain pattern. A validity check may be needed.

*LIST CHECKS*

A CVS file may have to checked for validity. Are records missing? Are
delimiters missing? Are there column headers or not? And there are other
formats such as XML and JSON etc. Are they valid? How do we check?

*INTEGRITY CHECKS*

Using hash values the integrity of files or other data sources may be
checked.

*CONSISTENCY CHECKS*

How would we check consistency in data? Did the user enter the required
data in the way the system expects them? Again, difficult to predict and
make it a generic function.
If we had "best practice" official rules going beyond what the IDE script
editor is checking anyway, we might add additional consistency checks for
style, usage of development patterns, etc.

*CROSS-PLATFORM CHECKS*

There could be a way to test automatically if data used on platform A are
the same as on platform B (Windows vs. OSX vs. HTML, vs. Android, vs. iOS
vs. Linux). It should be elaborated what exactly to check and how.

*DATA TYPE CHECKS*

Since in LCS (LiveCode Script) all data is text, it may be difficult to
check better than the already available functions would chech using "if 1
is a number then"... etc. It LCB - not having used it myself - I assume
that the compiler will throw an error when data type consistency is not
maintained and there is no explicit conversation. (But I am not used to it
yet, so I do not know.)

*EXISTENCE CHECKS*

We have to usually check if a file used is actually present, not empty,
etc.The same we do with URLs and databases. Does the connection exist? If
not, what to do?
We also check for windows, or other data being present.

*RANGE CHECKS*

Similar to character checks we want to ensure that data is present,
entered, exported or imported being constrained to a certain limit. Data a
d time ranges, number ranges, character ranges,

*SPELLING AND GRAMMAR CHECKS*

For which languages available? a self-learning dictionary attached? Grammar
rules?
Also certain formatting rules could be enforced.

*FORMATTING CHECKS*

For example, the postal address in the USA is differently formatted than
the one in Great Britain or Continental Europe or Japan and China. There
could be a validation process checking for correctness of such national
formatting rules.

Formatting a number, date, etc. (as already mentioned) is different from
region to region.

Email strings, URLs, ... there are formatting rules.

*UNIQUE VALUE CHECKS*

What way do we have to check that a value is unique - and within which
environment. This is not just need

Re: LiveCode for Educators (was LiveCode for the Hobbyists)

Hi all,

I wrote a "summary" contribution in the orginal thread I laucched the debate
on, to explain more clearly the psychological side that motivates the
HOBBYIST Bear... some clever guys here seem to not incorportate that kind of
elements in their thinking/writing. *We are humans, still!*

And I precise here the importance of dealing with our need to *make it
possible to close the code if we wish to*, eventhough we're not pros,
backing up Curry Kenworthy contribution.

Monte Goulding-2
--
You might need to fill in some blanks for me on why that is important for a
hobbyist? I would say one feature of a hobbyist with a budget market license
could be no code protection so* it's an important point to clarify*.

RH
-
Yes, Matt, I have no problem with open source, especially not in those
areas you point too, and I also said it. *I share my code, why not? *

>> Curry Kenworthy

*The world is not quite so simple! *

I've seen many people create freeware in spare time and decide to charge
money (or not) for some products after gaining a following or after
having more time.* The decision often comes later. *

Even when money is not a goal, *plenty of freeware products remain
closed. *

TO ME THAT IS EXACLTLY WHAT DRAWS THE LINE BEETWEEN ::
• an education OPEN SOURCE version
• an indy-hobbyist where CLOSED CODE is an option
• an indy-Pro & pro versions where CLOSED CODE IS THE RULE

AND to sum up the numerous participations,
it seems somekind of 100-200 dollars max per year for the indy-hobbysit
version would make a few of us happy with an indy hobbits version.
And that more of us would be much happier in an aloud perpetual license
mode, because me just move.. not so fast!!

And the main difference between pro & hobysit is the level of service
provided and possibly the scope of platforms.
Although this is evolutive :: so far I would tend to think that a hobbist
will not develop for mobiles. But. I would not give my hand on that point.

Or maybe livecode could split
-- a desktop hobysit licence,
-- a separate mobile hobist licence
hence provideding a more linear ladder from free open sourced to pro
version.

THIS supplementary income could well be used to back up the development of a
nice educative package around the open source version, *perhaps with a new
kind of "teacher" contributions in videos etc.. on the open source platform,
for the "kids tech academies"* that are going to spread like hell it seems.
And that would be a fantastic thing.

EDUCATION WAS A VERY STRONG PART OF THE ORIGINAL HYPERTALK STORY.

thanks all for all these deep thinking contributions.
Robert

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Re: Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?

Thank you Dirk, we really have a very similar point of view (i went through
on-rev support.. mobile launching support etc.. and quite a few, and yes,
stopped at perpetual licence!) 

Please do re-read the following quotes with a different view than the
"professional" viewpoint. Please do imagine that appart from money, there
are psychological issues, *feelings*. Among these when you use a tool, the
feeling you establish with that tool is important.

*let me put the point again F E E L I N G S -- kind of we are (STILL!)
humans!*

And what is so much more important nowadays is TIME.
I found i'm happy with an old version, just because I know how it works and
I do not have to spend YET some more enormous time to keep up with what is
new and possibly working, or not!

A true "indy-Hobbyist" license, that one can keep for several years for
good, has thus definitive advantages over the free "open source" version
because it brings us the* FEELING of CONFORT.*

CONFORT :
• to keep a strong relation with the environment as being active
customer/member
• to keep "up to date" in our time, when we wish, which is very conforting
and respect OUR TIME.
• to have this confort/confidence that we can make an app to a friend
without the code being automatically exposed (which actually simplifies
coding).
same for testing a first version in view of a possible application.

So that CONFORT for us let us invest time and get involved.
*The most important thing I wrote in my original message was that I got a
clear feeling that my involvement has just DEAD STOPPED at the yearly
renewable license. It seemed to have broken something. And it seems I'm not
the only one in that case, so could be worth digging into.*

/It's difficult to express, man, it really is some feeling about a tool, you
got friendly with./
*Would you "buy" your cat in a yearly renewable license??*
[2nd question is even better to the point :: would you buy every year, your
cat, the same price you paid for it when you chose it, and than double.; and
perhaps later triple amount, every year? just to be able to enjoy your cat
comforting presence? ]
At which point would you just let go your cat our of the door chasing a
mouse??? 

So clearly we have lost this relation with live code.
We' let the cat out. And this is indeed quite a surprise for us too.
We did support the open source of course!
And we're a little sad because we did participate to the building of that
*SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP* which was an important characteristic of this
language. & of the company & community. We really liked our cat, above all
rationals (I mean frankly.. if we had been "pros" we would have gone direct
PHP and java or whatever..)

I personnaly find it hard to understand (an expression I recall reading in
this thread..) *why such an approach cannot "survive" and, to keep that
strong relation with hobbyists, be offered in addition* to the two new lines
: the "open source" one one side which is great for some ; and the pro line
which is we understand a new line and target for live code (for which.; we
feel we have been chucked out as old useless dynausors!)

We may be old has been bears that do not understand anything in this grand
new world, but we may also have acquired a little bit of wisdom that
"geekies" seem sometimes to let go out of their focus, not thinking in terms
of why but just in term of how.

quote one from Dirk
--
Just like you had  a hard time understanding me, I have a hard time 
understanding why the company would not be interested in the money of the 
hobby user. *They don't have professional needs and don't require 
professional support.* It's good money for the company. 

I responded earlier, because Robert had the same feelings as me. *Livecode 
is pushing away the hobby programmer*. I find that *sad*. 
I grew up with a ZX Spectrum (and just ordered the new Vega) and started as 
a hobby programmer. We had enthousiasm and some of us grew into 
professional programmers. Even in those days I paid for my tools. 

I still hope that a niche can be created for the *less demanding hobby 
group. Not all of us want to feel like freeloaders. *

And yes, I can donate, but a donation does not have the same *feel* as up to 
date license. 
I guess *it all boils down to how I feel about it*. You can't agrue with 
feelings. 
Unfortunately *my feelings aren't worth 999$/yr*. 

quote two
-
Yes, you got it exactly right. I think the community version is fine, but I 
*like* the company and *the idea behind the product*. /That is why I have
been 
paying for this for all this time/. I can afford 999$/yr, so the company 
will lose a sale. Not just one sale, but a yearly sale. Don't forget I kept 
up to date since 2007. It'll be strange to not pay and use the community
version, since *that really is not how I want to use the product*. I
actually 
prefer supporting the company. 
Maybe I'm just strange. :)

No dirk, you're not strange to me :: we share exactl

Re: Min function

2016-02-28 Thread Thierry Douez

What about this?

 return  min( replaceText( myListOfNumbers, "\n",comma))


2016-02-28 12:05 GMT+01:00 Terence Heaford :

>
> I thought Min may work with the itemDelimiter but apparently not.
>
> Is that something that would be useful?
>
> set the itemDelimiter to return
>
> return Min (myListOfNumbers) — based on return not comma
>



-- 

Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Min function

2016-02-28 Thread Terence Heaford


I thought Min may work with the itemDelimiter but apparently not.

Is that something that would be useful?

set the itemDelimiter to return

return Min (myListOfNumbers) — based on return not comma


All the best


Terry



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Re: Open Process, Interactive Shell on OS X