Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Very sorry to hear about this. His enthusiasm over many years on this list was 
wonderful (I seem to remember he may have been around all the way back in the 
MetaCard days) and his positive attitude to challenges was a great example as 
so many let their frustrations with a challenge turn to anger in these 
situations. I only corresponded with him a couple of times on some coding 
detail that he or I was working out. He was always generous to respond and very 
good natured about it all. It was always wonderful to imagine his monastery in 
Hawaii with a bunch of monks working away on their computers in a beautiful 
setting.

I will miss him, but he is the kind of person that leaves some good bits of him 
with whoever crossed his path.

Jeffrey Reynolds


> On Dec 26, 2022, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (Andre Garzia)
>   2. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (Ralf Bitter)
>   3. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (Richmond)
>   4. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (harri...@all-auctions.com)
>   5. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (Sean Cole)
>   6. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (J. Landman Gay)
>   7. Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami (Drs Mark Schonewille)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 17:00:21 +
> From: Andre Garzia 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Subject: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami
> Message-ID: <30409775-7f65-4030-9139-4d35ba08e...@andregarzia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Dear LiveCoders,
> 
> Many of you here remember Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (some of you met him as 
> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami many years ago). Swami has always been a champion 
> for LiveCode and together with other other monks in Kaua?i Hindu Monastery 
> built what is probably the largest LiveCode-backed website available on the 
> net. He?s been a constant fixture here on the list for many years and many 
> here been at some time or another worked with him on various projects. I?m 
> sad to say that Brahmanathaswami passed away this week on Hawaii. His life 
> has been full of joy among his beloved monks in a paradise Island full of 
> love and sunshine. 
> 
> I?ve worked with him there on and off for the best part of maybe 18 years 
> (we?re not exactly sure when I started), he?s been a great friend and 
> together we built many wondrous things with LiveCode. I?ll forever cherish 
> those years, and I hope you all remember him fondly today as well.
> 
> Kind regards
> Andre
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 19:26:30 +0100
> From: Ralf Bitter 
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I am very sorry to read this. We had worked together
> on and off for almost 10 years.
> I never met him in person, but I think I can say that
> we got along well.
> 
> Brahmanathaswami, wherever you are, I will keep you
> in my memory.
> 
> 
> Ralf
> 
> 
>> On 25.12.2022 18:00, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>> Dear LiveCoders,
>> 
>> Many of you here remember Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (some of you met him as 
>> Sannyasin Sivakatirswami many years ago). Swami has always been a champion 
>> for LiveCode and together with other other monks in Kaua?i Hindu Monastery 
>> built what is probably the largest LiveCode-backed website available on the 
>> net. He?s been a constant fixture here on the list for many years and many 
>> here been at some time or another worked with him on various projects. I?m 
>> sad to say that Brahmanathaswami passed away this week on Hawaii. His life 
>> has been full of joy among his beloved monks in a paradise Island full of 
>> love and sunshine.
>> 
>> I?ve worked with him there on and off for the best part of maybe 18 years 
>> (we?re not exactly sure when I started), he?s been a great friend and 
>> together we built many wondrous things with LiveCode. I?ll forever cherish 
>> those years, and I hope you all remember him fondly today as well.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> Andre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --

Sorry for the extra reply text

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Very sorry for copying all the digest text there in my last post, I thought I 
had deleted it all. Apologies, I know better than to do that!

Jeff

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Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Stephen,

Thanks for that. Monks with macs, that was so cool in those early mac days. 
Nice little story and nice to finally see a picture of him!

Very nice story of no fear about mixing technology with their agriculture to 
make it better and the sharing of knowledge being central and participation in 
testing was good as it helped each iteration improve. All wonderful thoughts 
for the world and putting them in practice.

Jeff

> 
> On Dec 29, 2022, at 12:01 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> I still have the first copy of MacUser magazine, and right there was an ad
> titled "Monks with Macs" and swami was right there.
> I'm searching for that photo, in the meantime here's a more recent short
> article about Swami:
> 
> https://blog.autogrow.com/the-monks-the-monastery-and-the-macbook-pro


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Re: disabled buttons still receive events, they just process them, later?

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Oh man yes Jacque and Mike! I do feel old, about the same for me, about late 
87… grad school at Berkeley, humpback whales, and carrying Macs in big 
backpacks. Later MetaCard saved the day! 

Fun memories,

Jeff

> On Feb 22, 2024, at 1:51 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Exactly 37 years. I remember because I started learning HC when my son was
> born in order to take my mind off diapers. If I remember, we can commiserate .
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com


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Re: somehow OT, but somehow not - no price information

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Yikes, I agree this is really not a good turn. I usually see this stuff on 
stuff marketed to high end firms where price is not much of a factor.

Having been an evangelist for Livecode thru all its evolution all the way back 
to MetaCard days (over three decades), I’m afraid I will not be pointing people 
there will glee now. This is just a very bad move in my opinion. Sad to see 
this turn.

Jeff Reynolds


> On May 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Re: somehow OT, but somehow not - no price information


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Re: Livecode Future

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I’ve used Livecode since the early days of MetaCard, primarily creating 
educational software, educational multimedia cds included with kids books and a 
ton of museum exhibits. For me the new create system and licensing looks pretty 
untenable, but I realize I’m the odd duck.

The bulk of my time on these projects was actually content design and 
presentation as well as interface design and functionality. Programming time in 
live code was a small fraction of the build costs so savings for me for a more 
rapid development environment is minimal and would bring in minimal, if any 
increased profits. I’m not churning out an app a week, these are much more 
robust content driven programs where dealing with the nuances of content 
presentation is the 800lb gorilla and requires lots of small program tweaks as 
that design is refined during development to get it just right. Each interface 
is custom and art rich so auto interface builds adds no savings, probably only 
hassles keeping it out of things.

Being educational also means super slim margins all around. Asking a royalty 
payment for just the software system licensing would be a no go with authors 
and publishers. If they did, they would say ok we just take that out of your 
end then and that would wipe out any profits for me as it would not really add 
anything much to my productivity.

I have no idea of how this new license would work for my exhibit programs as 
well. Some are presentation systems that are used by a varying number of 
presenters at the institutions, some employees, some volunteers (is a volunteer 
a seat?). On the floor the app is used by tens of thousands of visitors. I also 
usually write a bunch of small apps for myself, the client, and the production 
team to help manage content development and organization on the project as well 
as migrate and format the content to go into the presentation/exhibit app. 
These apps are used very sporadically and sometimes by a number of people, 
sometimes only a few. All these organizations are usually paid admission, but 
are non profits.

Most of my really hard core programming I doubt would be helped by the new 
system as that is usually controlling all sorts of devices thru different 
interfaces and talking to other computer systems to coordinate a show. The 
drivers and programming for this is usually a total dive into obscure command 
protocols and interfaces these devices have but are seldom used outside of with 
turnkey control equipment. I doubt Create is set up to do this sort of very odd 
programming as it’s usually a lot of fiddling and little or no decent 
documentation to follow and many times things are just missing or don’t work in 
the gear. I’ve had so many equipment features not be flushed out or broken in 
their code on release that due to being able to fiddle with livecode I could 
figure out workarounds that the manufacturers say should not work, but they do 
work and it’s a testament to the versatility of classic to fiddle away easily 
to make these workarounds. 

Cloud based or call home features built in to operate the desktop apps is also 
a mess in many of my client’s environments as their IT usually blocks outgoing 
stuff from the exhibit networks I’m on for a number of, sometimes unreasonable 
and unneeded, reasons. When I need it and can get access I almost always get 
calls 6 months later something is not working and I find a new tech has closed 
the door that I was given or new system upgrades blanked old settings and 
permissions. For this reason I just try and avoid them unless really necessary 
as it just usually breaks at some point and the exhibit going down is bad, bad, 
bad, everyone pissed at me even if not my fault.

So I have no idea of how the museum exhibits would be covered under the new 
licensing. I’m sure I would get a lot of pushback to get them to pay for seat 
subscriptions and if they did they would make me do it and again take it out of 
my end without any really real benefit for me and thus lower profits and 
paperwork hassles. Would it be a for sale situation where I only have one sale 
and pay a royalty on the coding portion of the contract (a lot of my contract 
costs are for design stuff not requiring coding)?

Fortunately for a number of reasons I’m sliding into retirement here so the 
last bits will be fine in classic and installed systems fine and I doubt I’ll 
do much if any programming in retirement now, I’ve had enough after over the 
last 5 decades, it’s now more fun playing with my table saw and model trains. 
Sad to see things go down this road, but I understand that’s where the money is 
for Livecode to keep in business. I just hope there is some category created 
for the oddballs like me to stay with create in the future if they want to. But 
I doubt the Create system would work to develop the multimedia rich 
applications I do anyway, it’s not a real app or widget (although it would 
probably be useful for my little utility apps

Re: Livecode Future

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I posted about my more odd ball situation with live code. Kevin answered with 
some solutions for seats for exhibit machines which could be a solution, but 
unfortunately I doubt the royalty solution for educational content software 
would not fly with the  clients. As I stated it’s all ok since I’m sort of 
sliding into retirement and this is just sort of a door closer of a door 
already swinging shut.

But having worked with MetaCard/Livecode for 30+ years as my business and 
chatting with a few off list, I could not help stop thinking thru the issues 
and looking for solutions as well as just standing back and looking at the 
bigger picture some.

Live code has been changing slowly for a long time from a do everything super 
HyperTalk to more of a main stream rapid application builder. This is following 
the trends in the industry and there’s and app for that culture in general. The 
evolution to the Create system and the new licensing structure just cement all 
that in place. I get it it’s the way LC must go to survive as a business. I’m 
sure the new systems would have the potential to keep doing my work, but I’m 
sure multimedia aspects that are central to my projects will not be super high 
priority for newer versions of Create. AI stuff I see as mainly getting in the 
way for me, but hopefully it can be turned off or pushed aside when needed to. 
New licensing and Create direction would definitely not be a revenue generator 
for me just a lot more costs and hassles and I would most likely end up heading 
out to a new platform which wouldn’t be a large investment with no increase in 
revenue.

But it made me step back and look at my clients some more and think. One issue 
I had not thought about in all this kurfuffle is how would my clients react to 
the new LC outside of the licensing costs and the hit by the bus questions pop 
up. Being a one hand clapping with all the programming on our projects I always 
have to be ready for these questions from clients and have potential solutions 
ready. The smart client always ask these questions and I try to only work with 
smart clients if I can.

One, they would ask ok with this is a subscription model now, what happens if 
LC jacks the price way up here next year or worse goes out of business. A rapid 
price rise would be tough as these projects once done or released are sort of 
set, no new budgets or funding to pay for a higher subscription is there with 
my clients. I could see Kevin and team coming up with a solution for those of 
us stuck in transition to get some lock ins, exceptions, and such. It also 
sounds like as long as things are kept local things would keep running in LC’s 
demise and it would then require the use of a different coding system for the 
next project, but as long as the current projects are up and running that’s ok 
as they usually just keep running on with little or no fixes needed. Ok, that 
hit by the bus question answered.

The other big hit by the bus question that then came to mind was the one most 
often asked, what if I get hit by the bus. My solution to this has always been 
to have cultivated a few friends and colleagues who I know could easily do my 
work if paid for it decently and give that list to my clients. Dangerous some 
would say, but I’m careful with who I work with and trust my clients. I’m 
usually cheaper to the client due to the fact I do 3 or 4 roles on the projects 
and for them to hire someone just for coding and the others to do the rest it 
would get expensive and more management and potential issues and my education 
clients are in slim budgets, so I doubt they would try to use the list other 
than if I were hit by the bus (AFAIK none ever did anything with the lists). 
But now I’m realizing with the large turn in LC direction cemented in place 
there probably won’t be any odd balls out there in the future with the new 
business app world that I can use for this list in the future (they will most 
likely migrated elsewhere). This, I realized was a more important gotcha if I 
were continuing in my business. If the licensing issues could get solved this 
one would be a hard one to get around and end up forcing me off into a new 
system anyway.

Just some knoodling I’ve been doing and thought I would throw it out for others 
odd balls to naw on or just ignore it.

Also just wanted to thank this list for the many years of great information 
sharing and help with problems. I only had a few issues ever that I brought 
here or had solutions for others, but I learned tons from the information 
shared here, many times not stuff I needed at the moment, but later useful when 
I did! Folks here also kept this a great list to keep looking at over many, 
many years. Thanks. And a big thanks to Kevin and all the LC team, it’s been 
grand to keep on using HyperTalk to do more and more things that folks would 
say “you can’t do that with HyperTalk!”, but then you could show them you 
could… best wishes in the new c

Re: Bowing Out

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Graham,

I was going to send a similar post for myself, but yours is so spot on for me 
as well along with the fish, I’ll just say me too.

7x6

Jeff 

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Just a quick note to say that after many years of using LiveCode (including 
> its predecessors) and doing some modest development - some of which was 
> successfully sold to real users - I?ve decided that for me time?s up. This is 
> because of seniority (as someone recently put it - I?m old!) and the feeling 
> that at my time of life I can?t productively invest time or money in learning 
> about Create and the whole direction of the LC technology. I?ve had fun over 
> the years, and have benefitted hugely from the generosity and expertise of 
> those on this list and of course from the direct support of the whole Kevin 
> circus. I?ll miss it all.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have seen the Create demo and tried to understand the 
> underlying model of app that is being aimed at. If I were still trying to 
> contribute, I would be asking about how Create can help with apps that depend 
> on user interaction with animations, and apps that are driven by external 
> triggers like changing GPS coordinates, and most of all, about how far Create 
> will assist with deployment, particularly on iOS - an issue that can dwarf 
> the actual development effort of an app in terms of time and resources. If 
> Create can take the user all the way from internal beta test to publication, 
> that would be an achievement worth celebrating.
> 
> Anyway, it?s a great product that deserves success - so good luck to all 
> involved.
> 
> I?ll lurk for a little longer, but really its goodbye and thanks for all the 
> fish.
> 
> Graham


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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

My thoughts as well Jacqueline!

cheers,

Jeff



> On Oct 26, 2021, at 8:08 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you for this, you spoke my thoughts.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com 
> 
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com 
> 
> On October 25, 2021 8:34:04 AM "e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode" 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> What has it for purpose to bully a company with high educated compassioned 
>> people, maybe also fighting to survive, to critisize?
>> 
>> Most of us, cross me when I am wrong, have already a closed license.
>> 
>> Some of us had paid a lot, some less.
>> 
>> Its life.
>> 
>> Kevin, Mark, Heather and all members, Xmas is coming, all wishes in this 
>> hard times to come.

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Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Excellent Martin! My new view on infinity.

Reminds me of a joke the list may appreciate to clean off the mud.

Lady is found dead in the shower and is surrounded by dozens of empty shampoo 
bottles. Two detectives show up and the first one says “well this is certainly 
a very odd case”. The second detective replies “well no it’s pertly simple, the 
lady was a programmer”. The first detective says “how the can you say she’s a 
programmer with this evidence?”. The second detective says “It’s elementary, 
read the shampoo bottle instructions, Lather, Rinse, Repeat!” 

Sorry that stupid joke from like 40+ years ago goes thru my head every time I 
write a repeat loop or contemplate infinity…

Jeff

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:25 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Here is what I do
> Rotate your keyboard 90 degrees
> Press the 8 key
> Rotate yours monitor 90 degrees
> Repeat
> It took me forever to figure that out. 
> 
> Martin Koob


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Re: OT: Facebook -> Meta (Damaged Infinity!)

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I think this needs to be a contest…

> MarkW wrote:
> From a Boingboing user comment...
> 
> META: Making Evil Totally Acceptable

Jeff

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Re: Reviving CD-ROM material [was: Re: Livecode and interactive video]

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Graham,

Having created a bunch of commercial interactive cdroms back in those days of 
early commercial interactivity, I can say they can be a challenge to mine all 
the necessary content from them and determine the whole flow chart of content 
and interactivity. I did this a few times on my own projects in the late days 
of cdroms and beginning of the web. It was a job to suck all the content out of 
the encyclopedia and put it into a set of meta files to get sucked into the 
online system along with providing files that detailed how it all fit together. 
An I had created the original cdrom and done it in a very template cms way. It 
took a few weeks to do and this was probably the simplest port that could ever 
be done due to the content and how I had built the original cdrom and me 
sucking it out only a few years later. And this was for the encyclopedia part 
of the disc that was pretty basic article with attached media, glossary and 
links between articles. When we looked at doing this for the very interactive 
parts (lots of kids being able to plot various data sets in various ways for 
them to both see the environmental data itself but also get into analyzing it 
by plotting various things against each other) it got swiftly daunting to 
extract and document the interactivity completely. Luckily the online education 
company determined it was past what was feasible to do online at the time so 
they let that part drop. 

I had the same experience extracting very interactive exhibits from dual 
laserdisc systems (in the day the only way to get seamless interactive video 
was to have two laserdiscs and switch between the two and carefully place your 
videos on the two discs) to QuickTime and it was a big job to again extract all 
the content (mostly videos) and document the interactivity. Again I had built 
the original and was pretty good about file keeping and documentation. Again 
doable but it was a good pile of work for me and I knew it well having built it.

I’ve looked at migrating some of the educational cdroms we did a decade or so 
ago that went along with beginning reader story books, but the amount of work, 
even though done in revolution was just a bit too much for any return it would 
give other than just doing it. I may still do it some day as the rights owner 
would probably be fine with it as a freeware presentation online.

Suffice it to say it is possible, just how hard it will be to extract the 
content from the disc you have is a very hard question to answer. Livecode is 
so much more powerful today that it’s not a question of programming, it’s 
getting all the interaction figured out and content out of the system. I can 
tell you with that huge encyclopedia project (it was $2.7M project in mid 90s) 
the Mac and PC versions were programmed separately (cross platform systems were 
not quite there yet for the project) with Mac in HyperCard and pc in Visual 
Basic. I wrote the Mac version and made HyperCard a shell that was a cms system 
that would just pull in and article text file and it had a related data file 
that called out all the links, attached media, and such, so the content is all 
sitting there in folders that are easy to access and with a little sleuthing 
you could figure out the data structure probably. But much of the interface 
graphics and interaction on controls were all buried in HyperCard (mostly as 
resources). On the PC side they had two hard core Visual Basic programmers that 
attacked the problem like it was some moon launch (they spent 5x more even 
though behind the Mac version on production as were handed totally clean and 
debugged content from the Mac version to suck in, yet they still had 4x more 
bug sheets than the Mac version, go figure). They had all the data in a big 
access database that got very cumbersome as it went along. They tried to make 
access do too much and it ended up being a real issue and they almost went to 
coding their own database. But all the interface graphics were just a folder of 
files put together then in vb. So on the pc version the content would be 
totally inaccessible (yes that’s a pun we used a lot around access), but on the 
Mac side totally accessible as easily used rtf files.

We had about 5 hardcore programmers at the media company and I know each 
project many times got build in very different ways due to differences in needs 
and the evolving tools. I know I would be hard pressed to crack open their 
projects and extract everything not having been part of building it or the tool 
potentially to try to get in through an editor.

In the last couple of decades every few years one of the owners (or subsequent 
owner) of old cdroms I developed has approached me with the idea or 
resurrecting them in a new fashion. I’ve run the numbers and tried to assess 
how hard it will be and even doing this at educational rates (bottom of the pay 
tier, but that’s been a lot of my professional life) it just hasn’t  panned out 
as fe

Re: Reviving CD-ROM material [was: Re: Livecode and interactive video]

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Richmond,

And I’ll be right there with Richard.

Just because it’s not being supported does not remove copyrights. You know 
that’s a stupid argument. Maybe fine with your own morals but it’s not how 
copyright works. As a content creator for over 4 decades of my professional 
life I really hate that attitude of self justification. Fine for your own use 
but if you want to redistribute it then get the rights. Not for profit label 
has nothing to do with the rights involved.

I have experience working in and with media companies and licensing others’ 
materials and having others licensing ours. We were told all the time by 
management and legal to not respond to requests to license unless management 
was interested in the proposal and they would handle that. I thought it pretty 
strange that a denial letter could cause any issues and may have just been 
paranoia or don’t waste your time but those were the instructions. 

Getting an odd bob out out of relicensing an old project involves figuring out 
who you are getting in bed with and if you even want to get into bed with them 
in the first place, time to come to an agreement, research out the original 
projects licensing (media projects are rife with licensed media that at times 
are not transferable or require additional permission and/or payments), create 
and agree on a contract, deliver the goods, then make sure everything is being 
done as contracted. That’s not simple and all the steps cost time and money and 
usually folks are not willing to pay much for the rights to cover these costs, 
let alone a profit.

I’ve done this process a couple of times with old projects and it was way more 
work than I thought it would be and that was with a very good relationship with 
the rights holder (I built the original product for them) and in good rights 
situations. One was easy and owner was happy with a handshake on the deal until 
I had a product to sell and then we would pen a contract. I totally trusted him 
he would honor the handshake (and I’m still absolutely sure he would have, very 
good chap), but a year and a half later he ended up having to sell the rights, 
so our handshake of course was no longer good. He was transparent about all 
this and I just did the hand shake as it would have been a good chunk of change 
with lawyer to pen the rights contract and I didn’t have a publisher onboard 
yet. So even in the best of situations things can go sideways on these kinds of 
things and life is not as simple as you think it is Richmond.

I was approached by an old employer about resurrecting an old commercial cdrom 
project. I knew the rights had changed hands a couple of times, so my first 
question was who has the rights now and have you secured them? His response was 
well it’s abandoned and one of the publishers that were distributing the 
product to the education market (that wanted to partner with him on this deal) 
thought they could do it under their publishing agreement. Again I questioned 
did they have a full rights deal or just a publishing contract (I knew from the 
original days on the project we had very specific publishing contracts with 
different channels like Apple, media distributor and some educational 
publishers and they were rabid about retaining the work’s rights). Response was 
they feel confident they could stretch it legally. He then tried to say well we 
could construe this to be in then public domain as most paid for with 
public/private partnership money from NSF and EPA grants. I had to laugh in his 
face as they had made sure that even with this public money the company had 
complete rights to everything. I said I’d be happy to talk to him (and spend my 
own time) about it once he can put through the lawyers. He did and planning 
abruptly stopped.

The real killer usually is that media licensed in the original work was not 
contracted for sub licensing, transfer, or reuse or requires new payments. 
Sounds like something most would plan for to allow better life for their 
products, but I was amazed how many times this was not done or, at times, even 
thought of.

Sorry I’ve been around this tree too many times.

Jeff

> On Jan 23, 2022, at 12:02 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> I wrote to them twice and they never bothered to reply
> 
> they did not "essentially" ignore me: they IGNORED me. This is nonsense 
> as, presumably, there is no obvious way
> they can make the odd bob out of ancient CD-ROMS; and if they had a bit 
> of nous they might realise that they could
> climb into bed with you to mutual advantage . . .
> 
> so I would merrily chant my favourite mantra:
> 
> "abandonware, abandonware"? and make sure that anything I did with media 
> ripped off from those
> 
> CDs was splattered with disclaimers and released on a not-for-profit basis.
> 
> Richard Gaskin will probably now come after me with the castrating 
> irons.?


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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

LC team,

I too so appreciate all the work the LC team has done over the years and 
continues to do. I’ve used probably a dozen different commercial coding systems 
over the decades and LC thru all it’s incarnations back to good old MetaCard 
with Scott was the one that provided the needed options, stability and power to 
get my multimedia exhibit and education projects done. It’s allowed me to be 
both designer and developer on projects that has created synergy that has made 
all the projects come out better. I know the limits of the system and when it’s 
worth trying to bleed some as it gets you something great and when it’s just 
not worth it and usually another design approach ends up working better. When 
I’ve had to work on projects that I couldn’t develop (complexity, timeline, 
feature needs) and be done in something like C it took way more resources and 
time and although I had really great programmers and I understood all the 
basics of what they were doing things could still get lost in translation and 
some things just turn into a quagmire.

There will always be bugs, feature not there yet, etc in any development system 
and we each have a very different set of needs and wants and the LC team can’t 
make us all perfectly happy at once, nor consistently. They are the ones on the 
front lines trying to make this a profitable business for them (they need to 
feed their families and they are not our serfs) and make decisions on what the 
priorities need to be. We can of course lobby for what we think our priorities 
are (and therefore LC’s), but that doesn’t make it so. 

Many of us have based a lot of our livelihood on LC which is always a risk, but 
many times completely necessary. Yes I could do my projects more safely in C 
but I would be very poor as the time needed would suck out any profit at all. 
It’s always a tradeoff and one that needs constant assessment and not trying to 
push a development system to the limits as then you are in very dangerous 
territory — payoffs can be huge but crashes huge as well. I know I have done it 
in the past and very luckily survived but probably trimmed a few months off my 
lifespan to pay for it. I’ve run into bugs in the past with LC and have always 
found a work around for them on the current project and later most have been 
taken care of in LC, I realize it takes time and priorities are not always mine.

Yes features are always promised but reality always creeps in and resets things 
all the time. But LC has gone on longer and further and covering more platforms 
than most any system out there. With every new platform or major feature it 
adds to the permutations of issues and bugs so things can go at an exponential 
curve of development anymore and decisions need to be made to best keep all the 
balls in the air for the whole system.

Richmond, you need to listen to your mother some and if you don’t have 
something constructive to say try and be quiet some, or just pontificate in 
cheese instead of being insulting. I’m sorry but your flaming of LC staff (and 
the community) constantly is just plain annoying. It does no one any good, it’s 
not the way to make good change. Come to the table with constructive, 
reasonable and positive comments and not nasty ones. Sorry, you don’t represent 
this “community”, at least none I am part of. You complain the LC treats us 
with distain, well I don’t feel like LC does and your comments just fill me 
with distain for your comments. If you talk like that to others then expect to 
be treated with distain. 

You probably think I’m an LC cult member, but you are wrong, I’m the last guy 
in the room cults would go for. I think too much for myself and try to treat 
others reasonably and keep expectations in line with reality, there are no 
magic bullets, most all things are based on some thought and work, not a guru 
spewing truth which you seem to think you do and we should follow suit. Sorry 
not joining your cult. 

LC all the way back to MetaCard has been a big part of making me a richer 
livelihood in both money and profession, won me awards, and positively educated 
many hundreds of thousands with my projects for like 35 years now. That is why 
I trust the LC team to have the best shot at keeping the boat afloat, not a 
mantra. For that I keep thanking the LC team all the way back to Scott and Bill 
Atkinson. Others like Hypercard, toolbook, supercard, Oracle media objects, 
Authorware, Etc have helped for periods and some specific projects due to 
particular needs (produce something Apple publishes it better be in HyperCard 
and make something for Mr Packard and it better run on an hp) but none have 
lasted and matured like LC has.

Jeff

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 2:15 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> Dear List Folks,
> 
> I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
> their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
> you should look for 

Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

That’s because she won’t write that message until a few months from now...

Jeff

On Oct 4, 2019, at 5:10 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Talk to Jacgue about that. Bring extra socks. 
> 
> 
> I?ll bring it up when we meet last week.  She seems to have misplaced next 
> month?s message . . .


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Re: [OT] Personal project

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Kevin,

Kudos, many kudos to you. I’ve dealt with many friends and family members with 
depression over the years and it is nice to see a lot of what I’ve tried with 
them in your videos.

Jeff

> On Oct 24, 2019, at 12:01 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> This


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Re: OT: OMGwebsites

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Mark,

Welcome to the new world of websites... I've gotten out of the business as 
content is now an evil thing in websites. It's being tossed out right and left 
and what's left is being rewritten into three sentence paragraphs of 
garbledgook separated by large full width photos and repeated 10-20 times down 
a page in the longest scrolls I have ever seen these days!

Websites that were all about content are even doing this. One client actually 
said why do we have all this content, let's dump it. When I asked where the 
visitors will get the content on the community (chamber site), they said we can 
just do external links to get that content. I then asked where those sites 
would be and they listed a few, but all these sites linked to us to get that 
content, we were the only ones who had it. When I pointed this out they first 
did not get why the external links would not work and they said the content 
will appear. I can only think this comes from the fact that most folks under 30 
have grown up with the internet and all it's content just being there magically 
and when they get to a point of having to produce it they just think it is 
always out there and they don't have to really deal with it even when their job 
requires creating good content for their companies or orgs needs. I have been 
bluntly asked many times why should I bother creating the content
 . I keep asking well where will folks get it? Call you up, lord no that costs 
too much money and we don't want to answer questions that way!

Order and organization is also now forbidden. Things are arranged with pictures 
and statements and the condensed content bits are then sprinkled in after this 
with no real thought as to order and organization.

It may also come from marketing. There is a strong camp in marketing that I've 
run into for decades in working with marketing both internal and external that 
feels you never want to be really clear about what you are selling. Use to 
drive me crazy as we would have the top rated product but the marketing 
materials really did not clearly show what we had and emphasize the main points 
we were rated so highly for! On the marketing materials we looked just the same 
as our lowest quality competitors! 

I've been finding it harder myself to get basic information on things in my own 
web research as well due to all the above, it's sad as you would think it would 
get easier with time here but most of the basic information for companies and 
products is getting dropped and fuzzier. The worse thing is this has been 
translated over to content focused sites as being the new cultural norm to 
follow. Very sad...

Jeff

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:00 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> I gotta say I feel better about the LC website after reading this:
> 
> https://hackernoon.com/for-the-love-of-god-please-tell-me-what-your-company-does-c2f0b835ab92
> 
> -- 
>  Mark Wieder


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Crash when moving video window to external monitor pc

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Just had a report of having an LC9 application crash on windows 10 home crash 
when a video window opened on the laptop screen is moved to the external. The 
application has a main window with the user interface and a daughter window 
that is just has a video player in it. app opens with both windows on the main 
laptop screen and when they move the video window to the external monitor it 
crashes. They can move the interface screen to the external monitor and things 
will work fine with the video playing on the laptop screen.

Now using the direct show with the LAV set using K-Lite codec pack on the pc. 

No issue with this on the mac.

im wondering if there is some odd difference in the video drivers on the pc 
laptops that direct show or the LAV codecs dont play well with or have access 
to on the external monitor graphics controller.

Anyone seen video pay issues on external monitors on pc laptops?

thanks

Jeff Reynolds 
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mac/win codecs

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I was trying to find the page i had last fall that had the current codecs 
supported on windows under livecode 7. Cant find anything now on the current 
livecode site on the codecs supported or the video api used. Can anyone point 
me to where the info is for lc 7.1?

thanks

jeff


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Re: mac/win codecs

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Doh! should have used a quick google search, found it!

sorry for the bother.

jeff

> On May 25, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Jeff Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> I was trying to find the page i had last fall that had the current codecs 
> supported on windows under livecode 7. Cant find anything now on the current 
> livecode site on the codecs supported or the video api used. Can anyone point 
> me to where the info is for lc 7.1?
> 
> thanks
> 
> jeff
> 


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Re: Ben Beaumont jumps ship

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Sigh, me too I guess. I now see how long it has been (40 years) thinking back...

HyperCard
Supercard
Plus
Oracle Media Objects
Toolbook
MetaCard
Revolution
Livecode

Jeff

> Me too. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>>> On Jun 9, 2017, at 11:43 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If we're counting HC, I've been "there" longer than Kevin. :) And so have
>>> several others on this list.
>> 
>> If that counts, I'm day 1 . . .
> 


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HD Windows Video Formats

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Hi,

Just curious what video wrappers and codecs folks are using for HD (1080) for 
windows 10 playback (surface) with the directshow drivers native now in 
livecode.

its an odd set listed in the directshow format page

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd407173(v=vs.85).aspx 


wmv looks to work but has a 10mps max which has some issues with underwater 
shots with lots of solids. the h264 compression option looks to be wrapping in 
an mpeg2 and not quite sure of a path to get there. Does anyone do h264 that 
playback decoders installed under generic win10 install and a path to how you 
made the files?

thanks

jeff reynolds
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Re: RIP Dan Shafer

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Sad, many years and few editions of his HC book dogeared on my lap in the early 
years.

jeff
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touch issues with the surface

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Has anyone done multiple stacks with a surface under touch?

my app has a video playback substack that the control (master) stack brings up 
to play video full screen over the control app. works fine on mac and pc and 
the surface in pc mode (using mice and trackpads) but in tablet mode or in pc 
mode when you do touch an odd thing happens. When you select a video to play 
the master stack opens the video stack and loads the video into the player on 
this stack and reconfigures everything to play the video full screen. If you 
touch the video it just close the video stack and you are back with just the 
master stack. odd thing is that the first touch back on the master stack does 
not register as mousedown or up in livecode and you have to touch a second time 
to get the mousedown/up event. but when the video stack then is brought back up 
to play the video the first touch on the video stack registers a mousedown/up. 
This is true if the video substack is opened/closed each time used or just 
hidden/show. first thought it was some sort of issue with other windows in the 
development system but i get the same behavior when i build an app that 
contains the two stacks.

i could just change the surface version of this app to open just a player over 
the control stack and ditch the separate video stack (thats part of another 
version that lets the video be on one screen (projector) and control stack on 
the laptop for presentations. surface version of the app is to just have it all 
play full screen on the surface in tablet mode. 

but it bugs me not knowing why something is behaving like this in one 
permutation…

surface is a very quirky system…

cheers,

jeff


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mousedown on player in 8.1.4

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I was just testing a stack on LC 8.1.4 on the surface (win10) and for some 
reason im not getting the mousedown message on the player object in the stack.  
worked fine in LC 7.1.4 on the surface. works on both LC 7 and 8 on the mac. 
cant find any new properties that deal with this. 

does not matter if the controller is there or not. just odd. same behavior with 
mouse or touchscreen on the surface with the player object not responding to 
mousedown. No other PCs right now to test on other than the surface.

I did find that i could get the mainstack to work with the touchscreen on the 
first touch after a substack was closed from above it by setting the purge 
window to true, so was able to solve that issue.

jeff
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Jonathan,

I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to try 
something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and was 
something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what just 
worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs that were 
forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the just good 
ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do somehow avoided 
most all the little design eddies that folks would get a little hung up by. But 
watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o having to do hard core testing. 
Sadly this is hard to do for free in a school anymore but hiring some kids or 
adults will do.

It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found it 
really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you could see 
so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what they were 
looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit in the 
whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative evaluations and I 
found that my just watching observations were right in line with heavy testing 
and many times a bit more complete and useful for potentially fixing things and 
learning for the future.

Cheers

Jeff

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Jonathon,
> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
> learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small 
> amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
> 
> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
> 
> In summary:
> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
> users is invaluable.
> 
> Good luck,
> Bill P


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Re: intersect . . . invisible images

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

I think it's not quark and dryer spins that take away those lost locks but an 
intersection of this universe with another existing in the same space but 
different dimensions. And if the infinite number of universes theory is true 
the one universe must be the recipient of all said lost socks from all the 
other infinite number of universes and that is a shocking universe to 
contemplate.

So Richmond be careful the intersections you try to map or you may find 
yourself in an episode of the twilight zone trying to find a little lost girl...

Cheers,

Jeff


Jeffrey Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr
Bethesda, MD  20817
301.469.8562

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