Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

If there's a ditch on either side of the road, we can easily get in it.  :)

~Roger


On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Actually I do know someone who speaks, more or less, Etruscan. He is an
> expert in dead and dying languages. Sadly though he’s in England, so Dr H’s
> uncle is unlikely to meet him.
>
> Could we get more OT if we tried?
>
> Graham
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Actually I do know someone who speaks, more or less, Etruscan. He is an expert 
in dead and dying languages. Sadly though he’s in England, so Dr H’s uncle is 
unlikely to meet him.

Could we get more OT if we tried?

Graham

> On 23 Jan 2017, at 21:37, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> With whom doth he converse?
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 1/23/17 10:11 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> First caveat: I do not sell my software in large quantities (anyone for
>>> Sanskrit?).
>> 
>> I have an uncle fluent in both 14th Dynasty Egyptian and Etruscan; does
>> that count ?
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

With whom doth he converse?

Richmond.

On 1/23/17 10:11 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote:

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


First caveat: I do not sell my software in large quantities (anyone for
Sanskrit?).


I have an uncle fluent in both 14th Dynasty Egyptian and Etruscan; does
that count ?

:)




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have an uncle fluent in both 14th Dynasty Egyptian and Etruscan; does
> that count ?
>

heh
now I REALLY have a reason to come to a Livecode conference. I'd love to
see/hear you two guys have a discussion in person!

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> First caveat: I do not sell my software in large quantities (anyone for
> Sanskrit?).


I have an uncle fluent in both 14th Dynasty Egyptian and Etruscan; does
that count ?

:)


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Thanks Tom, all good advice, most of which I am following, although I am 
starting with the zipped version of the installer (made with innoSetup and code 
signed). The trouble with trying to ignore Norton is that it’s used a lot, and 
for those that have it installed, the instructions to reach “download it 
anyway” are messy. But I take your point, and maybe we should just go back to 
the basic installer. I’ll see how it goes.

I suppose the sad part of all this is, like many LiveCoders, I am happy with 
program design, coding and testing, after many years in many different 
environments, but I find these deployment issues a massive diversion. Payment 
systems are another one of these - I say this because I got caught with the 
demise of Kagi.

Well, it’s all educational, and next time I suppose it won't seem so terrible.

Graham

> On 23 Jan 2017, at 18:01, tbodine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> Here's what I've learned from many years of providing PC downloads:
> 
> * Email attachments are heavily filtered and rightly so. Use this only as a
> last resort for delivery of a program.
> * These days, fewer people are willing to download a trial version, in part
> due to Norton, but also many organizations' IT block all downloads. If you
> provide both a good, fast demo video and a trial version download, then
> users can choose what works and is comfortable for them.
> * Once a person buys your product, she is much more committed to downloading
> your product and will be less put off by obstacles. But expect to provide
> some support or guidance.
> * The big value of code signing is it's a mark of professionalism and
> usually reduces OS suspicion. I agree it is a slight that Norton treats
> small developers and new releases as dubious. But, remember, Norton isn't on
> all machines, so don't let Norton guide all your decisions.
> * I use a traditional installer (Innosetup) because it looks professional,
> ensures the app is installed with admin rights and into the right location,
> displays a license and readme doc, creates desktop shortcut to the app, and
> includes an uninstaller (also code signed). 
> * For download links, avoid redirects and use an https or other secure
> connection method to link to your download files. It helps establish trust
> if your download file is on the same domain as your site.
> * Fifteen years ago, download sites were useful. Today, they compete with
> your site for search engine visibility and sometimes repackage your app with
> their own installers that add adware or malware. Avoid!
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Tom Bodine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Boring-but-important-selling-a-download-product-for-Windows-tp4711826p4711877.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Well Roger, I agree with you - that’s why I went all the way with code signing 
and creating an installer. But the Norton Catch-22 ("not many people have used 
this software so we’re going to delete it until more people have used it…”) a 
small developer is in an impossible position, it seems to me. And even Google 
Chrome is hostile to .exe files even if they’re code signed. That’s why I was 
looking for any other solution. Is there a better way?

Graham

BTW none of these problems seem to exist on the Mac. Code signing is enough to 
make an installer acceptable to OSX.



> On 22 Jan 2017, at 16:06, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tend to disagree with the consensus to use zip files on Windows.  Nothing
> screams UNPROFESSIONAL more than not having an installer that is standard
> for the platform you are installing to.
> 
> ~Roger
> 
> On Jan 22, 2017 8:06 AM, "Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode" <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> How about downloading a zip file from a DropBox account?
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>> On 1/22/17 2:59 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>>> Just to report on how this method worked for me: I chose to have a web
>>> page from which the zipped file is downloaded. This worked fine, but not
>>> without warnings. The browser of choice, Chrome, offered to discard the
>>> file, but this was easy to ignore; then either when the zipped file was an
>>> installer or when it was just the original standalone, Norton intervened to
>>> prevent it running, but at least gave an option to “Run this program
>>> anyway”. So I do need to put a number of warnings on my web site, but at
>>> least it is less painful than before.
>>> 
>>> In another mail in this thread, answering Richmond, I speculate that the
>>> zip file could be delivered via an email attachment. I tried this, and
>>> although it seemed to get rid of Chrome’s objection (I was using webmail
>>> via Chrome), Norton made the same intervention. So that path is probably
>>> not worth going down.
>>> 
>>> Anyway this method certainly improves things, so that’s the one I’m going
>>> to use. Pity that code signing doesn’t just sweep this all away, but I
>>> suppose to really help naive users there should also be a kind of
>>> “harmlessness certificate”, which AFAIK doesn’t exist.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> On 21 Jan 2017, at 23:37, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 Wow, Jacque, that is such a great idea. Too late where I am to try it
 out tonight, but I will certainly try it tomorrow.
 
 Thanks so much
 
 Graham
 
 On 21 Jan 2017, at 20:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
>> new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
>> can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?
>> 
> One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now
> ships the product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app
> folder out of the zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the
> process, because Windows presents the zip folder as a regular folder and
> users think they can just double-click the app inside the zip archive.
> 
> Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out
> of the zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed
> app itself works fine without interference from the OS.
> 
> Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if
> your app is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or
> other OS-level stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you
> asked, but that's how we solved it.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

I tend to disagree with the consensus to use zip files on Windows.  Nothing
screams UNPROFESSIONAL more than not having an installer that is standard
for the platform you are installing to.

~Roger

On Jan 22, 2017 8:06 AM, "Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How about downloading a zip file from a DropBox account?
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 1/22/17 2:59 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Just to report on how this method worked for me: I chose to have a web
>> page from which the zipped file is downloaded. This worked fine, but not
>> without warnings. The browser of choice, Chrome, offered to discard the
>> file, but this was easy to ignore; then either when the zipped file was an
>> installer or when it was just the original standalone, Norton intervened to
>> prevent it running, but at least gave an option to “Run this program
>> anyway”. So I do need to put a number of warnings on my web site, but at
>> least it is less painful than before.
>>
>> In another mail in this thread, answering Richmond, I speculate that the
>> zip file could be delivered via an email attachment. I tried this, and
>> although it seemed to get rid of Chrome’s objection (I was using webmail
>> via Chrome), Norton made the same intervention. So that path is probably
>> not worth going down.
>>
>> Anyway this method certainly improves things, so that’s the one I’m going
>> to use. Pity that code signing doesn’t just sweep this all away, but I
>> suppose to really help naive users there should also be a kind of
>> “harmlessness certificate”, which AFAIK doesn’t exist.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> On 21 Jan 2017, at 23:37, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, Jacque, that is such a great idea. Too late where I am to try it
>>> out tonight, but I will certainly try it tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> On 21 Jan 2017, at 20:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

 On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

> My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
> new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
> can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?
>
 One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now
 ships the product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app
 folder out of the zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the
 process, because Windows presents the zip folder as a regular folder and
 users think they can just double-click the app inside the zip archive.

 Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out
 of the zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed
 app itself works fine without interference from the OS.

 Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if
 your app is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or
 other OS-level stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you
 asked, but that's how we solved it.

 --
 Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
 HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

>>>
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

How about downloading a zip file from a DropBox account?

Richmond.

On 1/22/17 2:59 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

Just to report on how this method worked for me: I chose to have a web page 
from which the zipped file is downloaded. This worked fine, but not without 
warnings. The browser of choice, Chrome, offered to discard the file, but this 
was easy to ignore; then either when the zipped file was an installer or when 
it was just the original standalone, Norton intervened to prevent it running, 
but at least gave an option to “Run this program anyway”. So I do need to put a 
number of warnings on my web site, but at least it is less painful than before.

In another mail in this thread, answering Richmond, I speculate that the zip 
file could be delivered via an email attachment. I tried this, and although it 
seemed to get rid of Chrome’s objection (I was using webmail via Chrome), 
Norton made the same intervention. So that path is probably not worth going 
down.

Anyway this method certainly improves things, so that’s the one I’m going to 
use. Pity that code signing doesn’t just sweep this all away, but I suppose to 
really help naive users there should also be a kind of “harmlessness 
certificate”, which AFAIK doesn’t exist.

Graham


On 21 Jan 2017, at 23:37, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Wow, Jacque, that is such a great idea. Too late where I am to try it out 
tonight, but I will certainly try it tomorrow.

Thanks so much

Graham


On 21 Jan 2017, at 20:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
 wrote:

On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?

One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now ships the 
product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app folder out of the 
zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the process, because Windows 
presents the zip folder as a regular folder and users think they can just 
double-click the app inside the zip archive.

Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out of the 
zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed app itself 
works fine without interference from the OS.

Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if your app 
is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or other OS-level 
stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you asked, but that's how 
we solved it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Just to report on how this method worked for me: I chose to have a web page 
from which the zipped file is downloaded. This worked fine, but not without 
warnings. The browser of choice, Chrome, offered to discard the file, but this 
was easy to ignore; then either when the zipped file was an installer or when 
it was just the original standalone, Norton intervened to prevent it running, 
but at least gave an option to “Run this program anyway”. So I do need to put a 
number of warnings on my web site, but at least it is less painful than before.

In another mail in this thread, answering Richmond, I speculate that the zip 
file could be delivered via an email attachment. I tried this, and although it 
seemed to get rid of Chrome’s objection (I was using webmail via Chrome), 
Norton made the same intervention. So that path is probably not worth going 
down.

Anyway this method certainly improves things, so that’s the one I’m going to 
use. Pity that code signing doesn’t just sweep this all away, but I suppose to 
really help naive users there should also be a kind of “harmlessness 
certificate”, which AFAIK doesn’t exist.

Graham

> On 21 Jan 2017, at 23:37, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wow, Jacque, that is such a great idea. Too late where I am to try it out 
> tonight, but I will certainly try it tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks so much
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 21 Jan 2017, at 20:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>>> My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
>>> new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
>>> can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?
>> 
>> One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now ships 
>> the product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app folder out 
>> of the zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the process, because 
>> Windows presents the zip folder as a regular folder and users think they can 
>> just double-click the app inside the zip archive.
>> 
>> Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out of the 
>> zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed app 
>> itself works fine without interference from the OS.
>> 
>> Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if your 
>> app is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or other 
>> OS-level stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you asked, but 
>> that's how we solved it.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Thanks Scott - it’s great to think that I might have helped someone, even if 
only indirectly!

Graham

> On 22 Jan 2017, at 05:55, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Graham, I'm glad you've been "wittering on". I code signed my first Mac 
> application (and disk image) the other day because of your persistence. 
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> Elementary Software 
> 
>> On Jan 21, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry to witter on after I’ve asked this list a lot about code signing etc 
>> so often. The excellent help I’ve had has enabled me to sign both the app I 
>> want to distribute and its installer - in fact I’ve done this twice, once 
>> for the Mac version of this app and once for the Windows version.
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Richmond, yes I can see that this is a good method if you are going to have 
very few customers. I would be surprised though if on a PC with Norton (and 
maybe other so-called virus checkers, I don’t know) if the user didn’t get some 
kind of squawk somewhere along the line, if not from Norton then from Windows 
as you would be reported as an ‘unknown publisher’ (code for ’not 
code-signed’). 

In my case the method recommended by Jacque is better as we hope for a somewhat 
 higher sales volume.

A variation on your method would perhaps to send the appropriate file 
automatically (after payment) but as an attachment to an email. I might explore 
this.

Cheers

Graham

> On 22 Jan 2017, at 09:53, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's Richmond, the retro, reactionary pain in the b., and the way he sells 
> software:
> 
> First caveat: I do not sell my software in large quantities (anyone for 
> Sanskrit?).
> 
> Having "played" with the demo a potential customer has to contact me, and then
> put the fee into my PayPal account.
> 
> The demo is downloadable from my website.
> 
> Once I see the fee I run off a standalone (for whatever platform they 
> request) with a
> clear label on the front card with their name, title and so on, upload it to 
> my Dropbox
> account and send them the link.
> 
> This normally involves 15-30 minutes of my time.
> 
> So: no code-signing, no "nuffin". Crude, but it works.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 1/21/17 9:43 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> Sorry to witter on after I’ve asked this list a lot about code signing etc 
>> so often. The excellent help I’ve had has enabled me to sign both the app I 
>> want to distribute and its installer - in fact I’ve done this twice, once 
>> for the Mac version of this app and once for the Windows version.
>> 
>> The intention is to sell the product by offering a download from a web site, 
>> using FastSpring for the payments, and incorporating Jacque Gay’s Zygodact 
>> to provide unique activation keys.
>> 
>> All this works fine, except for the Windows download, where Norton, Chrome 
>> and even Windows 7 all attempt to prevent either the download or the 
>> execution of the installer. Again with advice from this list, I know where 
>> some of the problems lie (though not the one with Windows, which reports the 
>> installer as having an ‘unknown publisher’ but later displays the publisher 
>> provided during the code signing!).
>> 
>> My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a new 
>> desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how can you 
>> strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser? So far all I can 
>> think of doing is to issue a warning on the web site that explains what do 
>> do if Norton ‘quarantines’ the program. Even this does not cover all the 
>> obstacles in the poor purchaser’s way.
>> 
>> Doesn’t this affect everyone trying to offer a new executable download?
>> 
>> [noise of grinding teeth…]
>> 
>> TIA for any further views.
>> 
>> Graham
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[AndyP via use-livecode]

I use FastSpring as well..great system. I've also had the same problem with
Windows installers downloads and now always zip exe files...it just works!



-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
TinyIDE 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Boring-but-important-selling-a-download-product-for-Windows-tp4711826p4711839.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Here's Richmond, the retro, reactionary pain in the b., and the way he 
sells software:


First caveat: I do not sell my software in large quantities (anyone for 
Sanskrit?).


Having "played" with the demo a potential customer has to contact me, 
and then

put the fee into my PayPal account.

The demo is downloadable from my website.

Once I see the fee I run off a standalone (for whatever platform they 
request) with a
clear label on the front card with their name, title and so on, upload 
it to my Dropbox

account and send them the link.

This normally involves 15-30 minutes of my time.

So: no code-signing, no "nuffin". Crude, but it works.

Richmond.

On 1/21/17 9:43 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

Sorry to witter on after I’ve asked this list a lot about code signing etc so 
often. The excellent help I’ve had has enabled me to sign both the app I want 
to distribute and its installer - in fact I’ve done this twice, once for the 
Mac version of this app and once for the Windows version.

The intention is to sell the product by offering a download from a web site, 
using FastSpring for the payments, and incorporating Jacque Gay’s Zygodact to 
provide unique activation keys.

All this works fine, except for the Windows download, where Norton, Chrome and 
even Windows 7 all attempt to prevent either the download or the execution of 
the installer. Again with advice from this list, I know where some of the 
problems lie (though not the one with Windows, which reports the installer as 
having an ‘unknown publisher’ but later displays the publisher provided during 
the code signing!).

My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a new 
desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how can you strip 
away all this nonsense for the average purchaser? So far all I can think of 
doing is to issue a warning on the web site that explains what do do if Norton 
‘quarantines’ the program. Even this does not cover all the obstacles in the 
poor purchaser’s way.

Doesn’t this affect everyone trying to offer a new executable download?

[noise of grinding teeth…]

TIA for any further views.

Graham
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Scott Morrow via use-livecode]

Graham, I'm glad you've been "wittering on". I code signed my first Mac 
application (and disk image) the other day because of your persistence. 

--
Scott Morrow
Elementary Software 

> On Jan 21, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry to witter on after I’ve asked this list a lot about code signing etc so 
> often. The excellent help I’ve had has enabled me to sign both the app I want 
> to distribute and its installer - in fact I’ve done this twice, once for the 
> Mac version of this app and once for the Windows version.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Wow, Jacque, that is such a great idea. Too late where I am to try it out 
tonight, but I will certainly try it tomorrow.

Thanks so much

Graham

> On 21 Jan 2017, at 20:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
>> new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
>> can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?
> 
> One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now ships the 
> product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app folder out of 
> the zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the process, because 
> Windows presents the zip folder as a regular folder and users think they can 
> just double-click the app inside the zip archive.
> 
> Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out of the 
> zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed app itself 
> works fine without interference from the OS.
> 
> Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if your app 
> is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or other 
> OS-level stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you asked, but 
> that's how we solved it.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Boring but important - selling a download product for Windows

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 1/21/17 1:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

My question is, what do other people do about this? If you generate a
new desktop program for Windows and try to sell it as a download, how
can you strip away all this nonsense for the average purchaser?


One of my clients said she'd had it with Windows installers and now 
ships the product as a zip file. The user is instructed to move the app 
folder out of the zip folder. This is just about the only hitch in the 
process, because Windows presents the zip folder as a regular folder and 
users think they can just double-click the app inside the zip archive.


Other than instructing naive Windows users to drag the app folder out of 
the zip archive, there have been virtually no other issues. The signed 
app itself works fine without interference from the OS.


Windows users have become used to installers and expect them, but if 
your app is self-contained and doesn't require changing registry keys or 
other OS-level stuff, it works pretty well. I know that's not what you 
asked, but that's how we solved it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode