Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Well since you put it THAT way... ;-P

I will offer this advice, and maybe it's not really needed, but I keep all the 
files necessary for a project in a single folder for that project, much like 
Levure does. For the purposes of cutting over, it may help to make a duplicate 
of your project and "Levureize" that, making it the default for that project 
when you are done. 

Bob S


> On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:56 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
>> moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
>> built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
>> ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
>> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
>> to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
>> issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
>> seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.
> 
> 
> Remember that you don’t have to scriptify anything in order to move a
> project over to Levure. Scriptifying stacks is only necessary in order to
> properly incorporate version control software (VCS) into your project.
> Levure itself doesn’t care whether or not your stacks are binary or script
> only.
> 
> I *think* this is the bare minimum someone would need to do if they wanted
> to move their app to Levure:
> 
> 1) Pull out library, frontscript, back scripts from app and put in proper
> folders in Levure app.
> 2) Pull out any code that runs at app startup and place in the
> `InitializeApplication` or `OpenApplication` handlers in the Levure
> `app.livecodescript` script. Make sure and open the first stack the user
> should see at the end of the `OpenApplication` handler.
> 3) Pull out any code that needs to run when the application quits and place
> it in `PreShutdownApplication` in the Levure `app.livecodescript` script.
> 4) Pull out your UI stacks and place them in the proper folder structure
> for Levure.
> 5) Configure the standalone.livecode stack for your app, making sure to
> include any externals or extensions your app uses.
> 
> Once you’ve finished the above steps and your app runs as it did before
> then you can choose to go back and scriptify your stacks. You could start
> with the libraries, front and back scripts. Then move to the UI stacks
> using something like Navigator or the PI in LC 8 or 9 to convert control
> scripts to behaviors one at a time.
> 
> If you step back and look at what Levure is doing it isn’t terribly
> complicated conceptually:
> 
> * It provides a project structure for your UI stacks, library stacks,
> behavior stacks, etc. Because Levure projects use YAML files and the file
> system they are VCS friendly.
> * It provides a plugin system (helpers) that allows you to drop in
> functionality.
> 
> Because of these qualities, Levure can automate the launching, packaging,
> and updating of your app. It can also facilitate the addition of features
> which require multiple stacks and/or extensions.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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> preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
> moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
> built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
> ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
> to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
> issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
> seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.


Remember that you don’t have to scriptify anything in order to move a
project over to Levure. Scriptifying stacks is only necessary in order to
properly incorporate version control software (VCS) into your project.
Levure itself doesn’t care whether or not your stacks are binary or script
only.

I *think* this is the bare minimum someone would need to do if they wanted
to move their app to Levure:

1) Pull out library, frontscript, back scripts from app and put in proper
folders in Levure app.
2) Pull out any code that runs at app startup and place in the
`InitializeApplication` or `OpenApplication` handlers in the Levure
`app.livecodescript` script. Make sure and open the first stack the user
should see at the end of the `OpenApplication` handler.
3) Pull out any code that needs to run when the application quits and place
it in `PreShutdownApplication` in the Levure `app.livecodescript` script.
4) Pull out your UI stacks and place them in the proper folder structure
for Levure.
5) Configure the standalone.livecode stack for your app, making sure to
include any externals or extensions your app uses.

Once you’ve finished the above steps and your app runs as it did before
then you can choose to go back and scriptify your stacks. You could start
with the libraries, front and back scripts. Then move to the UI stacks
using something like Navigator or the PI in LC 8 or 9 to convert control
scripts to behaviors one at a time.

If you step back and look at what Levure is doing it isn’t terribly
complicated conceptually:

* It provides a project structure for your UI stacks, library stacks,
behavior stacks, etc. Because Levure projects use YAML files and the file
system they are VCS friendly.
* It provides a plugin system (helpers) that allows you to drop in
functionality.

Because of these qualities, Levure can automate the launching, packaging,
and updating of your app. It can also facilitate the addition of features
which require multiple stacks and/or extensions.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before
> I decide to move something big and get stuck).

Levure appears to offer a very good framework.  The LC IDE offers 
another set of useful ideas.  revIgniter offers a good framework for 
still other projects, and (despite his letting the page go 404) Andre's 
Sparkle offers a good framework too.  And there are others ways of 
working, almost as many as we have developers using LiveCode.


The JavaScript world has 23,477 frameworks, and the PHP world offers a 
choice from among 48,392 frameworks. :)


It's code.  Many ways to skin all manner of animals.  Or to put skin 
back on.  Or trade skin with other creature, or replace their innards. 
In a universe of pixels all things are possible.


Choose the tooling that fits well with what you're working on.

Or choose parts of things that work for you, and parts of others.

Or write something entirely new to scratch your itch.

We hope that LC's growth will mirror the more widely-used languages, in 
which many frameworks and components spring up, some interoperable, some 
discrete, most useful, a few just for fun.


If there's anything I've learned from the Linux world, it's that users 
benefit from the inevitable diversity that naturally evolves in all 
healthy growing ecosystems.


One of the many things I admire about Trevor is how he actively 
encourages people to use the parts of his work that make the most sense 
for the task at hand, blending with other things as the work makes most 
beneficial.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> He has some youtube videos, which after watching I understood the process
> well enough to know that it would be a fairly major rewrite of my projects
> to incorporate. It looks really cool, and I keep telling myself I'm going
> to do this soon.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 04:46 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I
> do think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very
> limited stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to
> do things. Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos,
> although in the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.
>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

He has some youtube videos, which after watching I understood the process well 
enough to know that it would be a fairly major rewrite of my projects to 
incorporate. It looks really cool, and I keep telling myself I'm going to do 
this soon. 

Bob S


> On Feb 20, 2018, at 04:46 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I do 
> think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very limited 
> stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to do things. 
> Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos, although in 
> the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.

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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wouldn't give up on it.  Levure is a really important development in the
LC universe, and one that is worth integrating into your work in the medium
term, but it is definitely a more advanced tool, like carbon frames and
high-pressure tires.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I
> do think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very
> limited stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to
> do things. Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos,
> although in the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.
>
> I will go around the houses once again to try to do app updating simply
> from within LC scripts. I do have a fair notion about what do do.
>
> I don’t know what I’ll do about Levure in the future. Perhaps I should
> just admit defeat.
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
> (My mood is influenced no doubt by hideously wet and cold weather in the
> South of France… will I ever get back on my bike?)
>
> > On 19 Feb 2018, at 21:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
> > parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
> > yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
> > just jump in and be off and going.
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
> >> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
> >> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It
> is
> >>> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all
> of
> >>> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> >>> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very
> limited
> >> as
> >>> of late.
> >>>
> >>> —
> >>> Trevor DeVore
> >>> ScreenSteps
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> >> bread-and-butter
>  cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> 
>  On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> @Trevor
> >> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> >> transitioning to Levure" item
> >
> >
> > I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> >
> >>
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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> >
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>  On the second day, God created the oceans.
>  On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
>  And God said, "This is good."
>  ___
>  use-livecode mailing list
>  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>  subscription preferences:
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> >> subscription preferences:
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> >>
> >>
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> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > 

Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I do 
think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very limited 
stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to do things. 
Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos, although in 
the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.

I will go around the houses once again to try to do app updating simply from 
within LC scripts. I do have a fair notion about what do do.

I don’t know what I’ll do about Levure in the future. Perhaps I should just 
admit defeat.

Cheers

Graham

(My mood is influenced no doubt by hideously wet and cold weather in the South 
of France… will I ever get back on my bike?)

> On 19 Feb 2018, at 21:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
> parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
> yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
> just jump in and be off and going.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
>> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
>> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> :-)
>>> 
>>> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
>>> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
>>> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
>>> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited
>> as
>>> of late.
>>> 
>>> —
>>> Trevor DeVore
>>> ScreenSteps
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
>> bread-and-butter
 cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
 
 On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> @Trevor
>> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>> transitioning to Levure" item
> 
> 
> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> 
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> 
>> 
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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> 
 
 
 
 --
 On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
 On the second day, God created the oceans.
 On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
  and did a little diving.
 And God said, "This is good."
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
just jump in and be off and going.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
>
> Graham
>
> > On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> > easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> > the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> > Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited
> as
> > of late.
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> > ScreenSteps
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> bread-and-butter
> >> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  @Trevor
>  That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>  transitioning to Levure" item
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >>>
> >>> —
> >>> Trevor DeVore
> >>>
> 
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>   and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of around 
3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If (and it is 
only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.

Graham

> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> :-)
> 
> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
> of late.
> 
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
>> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
 @Trevor
 That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
 transitioning to Levure" item
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>>> 
>>> —
>>> Trevor DeVore
>>> 
 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>   and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Issue filed, let's discuss over there.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> :-)
>
> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
> of late.
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> bread-and-butter
> > cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > @Trevor
> > > > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > > > transitioning to Levure" item
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> > >
> > > —
> > > Trevor DeVore
> > >
> > > >
> > > ___
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> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

:-)

Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
of late.

—
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > @Trevor
> > > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > > transitioning to Levure" item
> >
> >
> > I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> >
> > >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

And wait, don't you have a Documentation Doughboy?

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > @Trevor
>> > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>> > transitioning to Levure" item
>>
>>
>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>>
>> —
>> Trevor DeVore
>>
>> >
>> ___
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>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
cult can do your bidding, my crusty master

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > @Trevor
> > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > transitioning to Levure" item
>
>
> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
>
> >
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> @Trevor
> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> transitioning to Levure" item


I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)

—
Trevor DeVore

>
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

@Trevor
That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
transitioning to Levure" item

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Graham,
>
> 1) You do not need to scriptify (move code into script only stacks) your
> stacks to use them in Levure. Levure supports an organizational structure
> (the `ui` folder in Levure) which makes it easy to organize binary stacks
> that use script only stacks as behaviors.
>
> 2) You are not required to use Git in order to use Levure. Levure helps you
> organize your code so that you can benefit from version control. It doesn’t
> require it.
>
> 3) You can still benefit from using Levure if you don’t use script only
> stacks or git yet. Levure provides a powerful packaging system for
> packaging your apps for distribution. Helpers allow you to drop in
> functionality that your app may need such as Prefernces, Inno Setup,
> DropDMG, etc. (On a somewhat related note I’m currently updating SQL Yoga
> to work as a helper which will simplify its usage considerably as all of
> the configuration is done with YAML files.)
>
> What I’ve done in the past when converting an app is move my stacks into
> the appropriate Levure folders without worrying about scriptifying them. I
> then move any app initialization code into the appropriate handlers in the
> Levure `app.livecodescript` file.
>
> Once the app is working again then I go back and scriptify stacks as
> needed. Libraries that don’t use any internal custom properties are easy to
> convert as are front and back scripts. You can then slowly go through each
> folder in the `app/ui` folder and move the scripts into a `behavior` folder
> that sits along each stack. No rush though.
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:33 AM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in
> > difficulties trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind
> that
> > professionals use Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other
> > platforms), I have some hopes (from previous emails from Trevor) that
> > Levure might help me. However, on first looking at the wiki, I think that
> > what Levure needs is a big commitment to work in a specific way - a good
> > way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old coders have been doing
> for
> > the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and I could so easily
> not
> > be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks contain code in
> > various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure environment.
> Rather,
> > one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least do a great
> deal
> > of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much all the
> code
> > is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, and
> > feeling comfortable with Github...
> >
> > Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Graham
> > (A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to
> > LC rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now
> extinct
> > low- and high-level languages had to be mastered).
> >
> > > On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is
> > extensive.
> > >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> > >
> > >
> > > The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> > > description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> > >
> > > —
> > > Trevor DeVore
> > >
> > >> 
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
___

Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi Graham,

1) You do not need to scriptify (move code into script only stacks) your
stacks to use them in Levure. Levure supports an organizational structure
(the `ui` folder in Levure) which makes it easy to organize binary stacks
that use script only stacks as behaviors.

2) You are not required to use Git in order to use Levure. Levure helps you
organize your code so that you can benefit from version control. It doesn’t
require it.

3) You can still benefit from using Levure if you don’t use script only
stacks or git yet. Levure provides a powerful packaging system for
packaging your apps for distribution. Helpers allow you to drop in
functionality that your app may need such as Prefernces, Inno Setup,
DropDMG, etc. (On a somewhat related note I’m currently updating SQL Yoga
to work as a helper which will simplify its usage considerably as all of
the configuration is done with YAML files.)

What I’ve done in the past when converting an app is move my stacks into
the appropriate Levure folders without worrying about scriptifying them. I
then move any app initialization code into the appropriate handlers in the
Levure `app.livecodescript` file.

Once the app is working again then I go back and scriptify stacks as
needed. Libraries that don’t use any internal custom properties are easy to
convert as are front and back scripts. You can then slowly go through each
folder in the `app/ui` folder and move the scripts into a `behavior` folder
that sits along each stack. No rush though.

—
Trevor DeVore


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:33 AM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in
> difficulties trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind that
> professionals use Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other
> platforms), I have some hopes (from previous emails from Trevor) that
> Levure might help me. However, on first looking at the wiki, I think that
> what Levure needs is a big commitment to work in a specific way - a good
> way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old coders have been doing for
> the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and I could so easily not
> be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks contain code in
> various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure environment. Rather,
> one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least do a great deal
> of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much all the code
> is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, and
> feeling comfortable with Github...
>
> Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
> (A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to
> LC rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now extinct
> low- and high-level languages had to be mastered).
>
> > On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is
> extensive.
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> >
> >
> > The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> > description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> >
> >> 
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in difficulties 
trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind that professionals use 
Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other platforms), I have some hopes 
(from previous emails from Trevor) that Levure might help me. However, on first 
looking at the wiki, I think that what Levure needs is a big commitment to work 
in a specific way - a good way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old 
coders have been doing for the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and 
I could so easily not be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks 
contain code in various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure 
environment. Rather, one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least 
do a great deal of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much 
all the code is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, 
and feeling comfortable with Github...

Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?

TIA

Graham
(A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to LC 
rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now extinct low- 
and high-level languages had to be mastered).

> On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> 
> 
> The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> 
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> 
>> 
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki


The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.

—
Trevor DeVore

> 
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Levure Framework is a method for creating LC applications that leverage Script 
Only stacks for the code so that versioning and distribution systems like 
GitHub can be used in the development process. (Trevor will correct me if I am 
wrong). Even if such a system is not used, multiuser development systems can be 
leveraged by limiting write access to any script only stack file to a single 
user. 

Bob S


> On Feb 15, 2018, at 01:15 , Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Trevor
> 
> Your readme.md and your posts here could do with a description of what Levure 
> is and does. Just use the first paragraph from your wiki. 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 16:38, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy folks,
>> 
>> Version 0.9.5 of the Levure framework is now available.
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases
>> 
>> -- 
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor

Your readme.md and your posts here could do with a description of what Levure 
is and does. Just use the first paragraph from your wiki. 

All the best

Sean Cole
Pi Digital

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 16:38, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Howdy folks,
> 
> Version 0.9.5 of the Levure framework is now available.
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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